Drop Rates SoJ vs. SV (Image heavy!)
Avatar Exico
Yap it is real I tested it when I used to do the Halycon Farm when it was released to the public and got some very interesting Results, The Drops were Dot on exact. When I did it with my Monk used SS very interesting Result came got way better drops than you get on SoJ, and my max in that run was 10 golds tops i was shocked in 4-5hrs of doing it make rofly 20k+ in Merchant Stuff but the Golds helped alot. Halycon on HM is best you will get for TH Title there about 2 Chests around that place every single run. Also it good place to get Non ins Dragon Staffs that sell for 100k+. I tryed on my Necro/Mo with SS again and what ya know got exact drops that I got on my Monk.
stretchs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinny Corpse
I guess your PC's are connected to the same internet connection via router?
Just curious.. for the sake of science.
Have patience when you try to sync your entrance.. sometimes it takes
quite a few tries to get it right.. you just gotta keep trying.
Would love to see the result of your run!
As for me, I've been busy vanquishing.. and the only farming I've done in
the meanwhle is the Raptor farm to afford all the lockpicks I break during
vanquishing.
I can't really say I've found any new suitable area for further testing yet.. but
I've got some places left so I'll keep looking.
Have fun!
Yep, I have 5 pcs on my router at home that can play gw. I have 2 accnts that can access all places in all continents so i could test this similar to what you and your brother are doing. You could probably also test the raptor cave you were speaking about with an E/A and a W/Rt the E/A is more all at once and the W/Rt is gradual. Also the Hulking Stone Elementals outside of Sardelac would be a place that you could also test a similar farm.
Just curious.. for the sake of science.
Have patience when you try to sync your entrance.. sometimes it takes
quite a few tries to get it right.. you just gotta keep trying.
Would love to see the result of your run!
As for me, I've been busy vanquishing.. and the only farming I've done in
the meanwhle is the Raptor farm to afford all the lockpicks I break during
vanquishing.
I can't really say I've found any new suitable area for further testing yet.. but
I've got some places left so I'll keep looking.
Have fun!
Yep, I have 5 pcs on my router at home that can play gw. I have 2 accnts that can access all places in all continents so i could test this similar to what you and your brother are doing. You could probably also test the raptor cave you were speaking about with an E/A and a W/Rt the E/A is more all at once and the W/Rt is gradual. Also the Hulking Stone Elementals outside of Sardelac would be a place that you could also test a similar farm.
Skinny Corpse
Quote:
Originally Posted by stretchs
Yep, I have 5 pcs on my router at home that can play gw. I have 2 accnts that can access all places in all continents so i could test this similar to what you and your brother are doing. You could probably also test the raptor cave you were speaking about with an E/A and a W/Rt the E/A is more all at once and the W/Rt is gradual. Also the Hulking Stone Elementals outside of Sardelac would be a place that you could also test a similar farm.
The thing is you need to be able to determine if you've managed to sync
the enterance.. in Fahranur it's ideal cuz of the different spawns of skales; same
spawns, most likely synced.
The stone elementals might actually work tho.. there's a few different spawns
as it appears.. might just give that a try.
the enterance.. in Fahranur it's ideal cuz of the different spawns of skales; same
spawns, most likely synced.
The stone elementals might actually work tho.. there's a few different spawns
as it appears.. might just give that a try.
stretchs
Always worth giving it a try regardless. Maybe I will try to set a script so it will enter the zone on X time on my pc clock so that they are moving at identical times
Skinny Corpse
Indeed.. as you don't have to worry about latancy it might very well work.
Looking forward to the results!
Looking forward to the results!
sungod88
ok new update there is also another factor to drops. if u die during the farm drops decrease dramatically in quality. I went a run with no deaths and got 3 golds in 5 minutes from 2 groups. so yea death is also a factor
Zahr Dalsk
This does make sense compared with my own findings while experimenting around.
Your drops are way better than I make, though :P
Your drops are way better than I make, though :P
tuna-fish_sushi
Now to find a way to use this new find! I say if you have 2 computers and can do this yourself then you can have them sync and 1 character do the run and if a good item drops that had a good mod (+30 health or something) then the other character can just run to the monster that dropped it and get another +30 mod!
would also be good farming Elite Tomes or something i dont know so many possibilities!
would also be good farming Elite Tomes or something i dont know so many possibilities!
Skinny Corpse
Quote:
Originally Posted by sungod88
ok new update there is also another factor to drops. if u die during the farm drops decrease dramatically in quality. I went a run with no deaths and got 3 golds in 5 minutes from 2 groups. so yea death is also a factor
From what we've seen during our runs, this is not the case. We've had deaths
but we've seen no change in the loot thb.
In my opinion you really need something to compare you run to.. a single run doesn't say that much, really.
I'd rather say you had a lucky run.
but we've seen no change in the loot thb.
In my opinion you really need something to compare you run to.. a single run doesn't say that much, really.
I'd rather say you had a lucky run.
flettir
This is potentially the most interesting thing I've seen on Guild Wars.
However, it feels to me that this is strongly linked to the fact that you're both essentially on the same connection, being to the same router. When you both loaded up the map at the same time, the server sent your router 2 packets of information about drops, etc. I'm guessing since the time was exactly the same, the 2 packets could have gotten mixed up or something, or the similar nature and source and most importantly affixed time of the packets caused one to be deleted as an error or redundancy, and thus both computers got the same packet of information.
Have you tried doing this with two people not on the same connection?
However, it feels to me that this is strongly linked to the fact that you're both essentially on the same connection, being to the same router. When you both loaded up the map at the same time, the server sent your router 2 packets of information about drops, etc. I'm guessing since the time was exactly the same, the 2 packets could have gotten mixed up or something, or the similar nature and source and most importantly affixed time of the packets caused one to be deleted as an error or redundancy, and thus both computers got the same packet of information.
Have you tried doing this with two people not on the same connection?
Armond
We've been over this. They're in different states, and other people have been able to reproduce the results.
Antithesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armond
We've been over this. They're in different states, and other people have been able to reproduce the results.
Yep, what Armond said. If you'd taken some time to read the thread, you would have found that they are not in the same location. They are two independent time-synced and mob-synced instances using different routers, IPs, ISPs and quite possibly different timezones. And that is why this data is so interesting.
Armond
In all fairness, there's a huge chunk of thread here... but I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned in the past few pages, hasn't it?
Skinny Corpse
I actually can't find it now, but it's been covered.. and Antithesis and Armod
are right.. different connections, different ISPs.
are right.. different connections, different ISPs.
RadaArashi
I find it pretty odd because I checked the profit I would get from farming Plains of Jarin with my VwK Rit and Moebius Sin (GPS->TFangs->MS->CritStrike->MS->CritStrike) and I like many others found that I got more gold from doing runs with my assassin.
Also before the Flame Djinn Haste nerf, I would split the raptor nestling groups in 3 sections and found I also got more drops from doing that than to aggro everything and then unleash the Fire Magic chain.
Any thoughts?
Also before the Flame Djinn Haste nerf, I would split the raptor nestling groups in 3 sections and found I also got more drops from doing that than to aggro everything and then unleash the Fire Magic chain.
Any thoughts?
Chthon
[edit: Didn't realize this was a rezzed thread.
Sill, I thank whoever rezzed it, since it's a monumental discovery.]
Sill, I thank whoever rezzed it, since it's a monumental discovery.]
Crippie its Tom
hmm... you should check different builds/areas...
such as sardelac sanctarium on a nuker and something else.
such as sardelac sanctarium on a nuker and something else.
TheBigL481
Congratulations on these findings 
Very interesting stuff, and well carried out experiments to prove them. I don't know what realistic benefits this could have to farming, but we can at least assume every x amount of time (somewhere between 0 and 1 second) the spawns (and simultaneously their dropped items) are randomized, or changed based on a predetermined script.
At least its intriging to know that drops are replicable, and not calculated on the death of the enemy.
Very interesting stuff, and well carried out experiments to prove them. I don't know what realistic benefits this could have to farming, but we can at least assume every x amount of time (somewhere between 0 and 1 second) the spawns (and simultaneously their dropped items) are randomized, or changed based on a predetermined script.At least its intriging to know that drops are replicable, and not calculated on the death of the enemy.
revelation
I'd like to see this test at... Raptor Cave? As far as I've seen, at the tests you didn't kill many mobs at once, few at once with different builds, that's all.. Can someone do this at raptors with fire and earth build?
davdman0100
lol i dont understand why people are like "its obviously fake because u cant get same drops"....well are u tellin me that u know how jagex runs its drop rate? isnt it possible that these two players literally figured it out? just because it seems impossible doesnt mean its not true, u have no reason to say its not true because u dont know if this is how the drop rate runs or not.
just my opinion.
just my opinion.
BlueNovember
Quote:
Originally Posted by davdman0100
well are u tellin me that u know how jagex runs its drop rate?.
GW != Runescape.
On topic, interesting read. Lamentable persistence and admirably scientific approaches/tests.
On topic, interesting read. Lamentable persistence and admirably scientific approaches/tests.
ccruzp
Quote:
Originally Posted by davdman0100
lol i dont understand why people are like "its obviously fake because u cant get same drops"....well are u tellin me that u know how jagex runs its drop rate? isnt it possible that these two players literally figured it out? just because it seems impossible doesnt mean its not true, u have no reason to say its not true because u dont know if this is how the drop rate runs or not.
just my opinion. Yeah I think they pretty much discovered what governs drop randomness, i mean a computer cant simply create a number at randon to calculate drops, and afaik all random number generators fall into a patern over a (ridiculously large) number of "numbers generated" so why bother/waste resources? basing the randomness of drops and other "random" generated data on the clock time would yield satisfactory results since a player cant control the servers clocktime and is unlikely to figure all the math involved to exploit it.
Also as we know some people from Anet used to work at blizzard, and the random generated dungeons from diablo 1 are based on your computers clock time =)
But maybe the fact that both players had the same ip helped triggering a glitch? sry but i didnt read all the pages to see if someone tested it w/ different ips, if someone has nvm this.
Sry for the bad english.
just my opinion. Yeah I think they pretty much discovered what governs drop randomness, i mean a computer cant simply create a number at randon to calculate drops, and afaik all random number generators fall into a patern over a (ridiculously large) number of "numbers generated" so why bother/waste resources? basing the randomness of drops and other "random" generated data on the clock time would yield satisfactory results since a player cant control the servers clocktime and is unlikely to figure all the math involved to exploit it.
Also as we know some people from Anet used to work at blizzard, and the random generated dungeons from diablo 1 are based on your computers clock time =)
But maybe the fact that both players had the same ip helped triggering a glitch? sry but i didnt read all the pages to see if someone tested it w/ different ips, if someone has nvm this.
Sry for the bad english.
Titan Silencer
this discovery is amazing. I believe that you're right, but we need more testing in different areas, different builds,...
I might try it when I get the time to get a decent farmer on my secondary account...
the thing I could try is the zaishen chest thing, like someone suggested, you never know
I might try it when I get the time to get a decent farmer on my secondary account...
the thing I could try is the zaishen chest thing, like someone suggested, you never know
Antithesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccruzp
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Titan Silencer
this discovery is amazing. I believe that you're right, but we need more testing in different areas, different builds,...
This zone is used for time-sync testing because it's easy to see if the mobs are synced. If the mobs aren't synced, the drops are different.
We've got an argument going in another thread about AoE vs single foe drops. It's been suggested that SoJ vs SV isn't as valid for testing as an AoE Nuker vs SV. If we can get the same or different results, it'd make interesting reading. Skinny Corpse we need you...you're our only hope
Skinny Corpse
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antithesis
We've got an argument going in another thread about AoE vs single foe drops. It's been suggested that SoJ vs SV isn't as valid for testing as an AoE Nuker vs SV. If we can get the same or different results, it'd make interesting reading. Skinny Corpse we need you...you're our only hope
Yes, I've been following the thread and I'm curious about such comparison as well.. I'll have to sit down and figure out a way to proceed in a near future.. It'llbe interesting, for sure.
Abonai Laguna
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinny Corpse
Yes, I've been following the thread and I'm curious about such comparison as well.. I'll have to sit down and figure out a way to proceed in a near future.. It'll
be interesting, for sure.
well mate, ill go aoe.
teotuf
how did you make sure the sync was right on the spot? did you guys just ran towards the exit at exactly the same time?
Skinny Corpse
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abonai Laguna
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Maybe an elem duo, sliver vs. aoe could be something to check out?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by teotuf
how did you make sure the sync was right on the spot? did you guys just ran towards the exit at exactly the same time?
That's right, side by side towards the sunset.. erm.. exit.
But sometimes side by side doesn't work due to latancy etc, so you might have to adapt to such circumstances. Nechtan Thaumaturge
First off, excellent post, Skinny Corpse.
I borrowed another account, pulled out my laptop, and tried looking into the AoE vs. Sliver question. I decided to try Fahrunur, since that seems to work well, but so far I've only managed to synchronize successfully once. The results weren't particularly conclusive. Twenty-eight drops were identical, the Sliver Armor build got eight unique drops (unique in the sense that they weren't shared), and the AoE build got four unique drops.  (The unique drops aren't shown in the screenshot) Both characters were E/Me. The builds in use were: Sliver Armor Stone Daggers Stoning Ether Renewal {E} Stoneflesh Aura Kinetic Armor Earth Attunement Mantra of Resolve Sympathetic Visage Ancestor's Visage Crystal Wave Teinai's Crystals Wandering Eye Stoneflesh Aura Kinetic Armor Ether Prism {E} I had to cobble together the Sliver Armor build since that character didn't have most of the newer skills. Neither build is particularly quick, incidentally, so the influence of the rate of kill wasn't really tested. I did get multiple simultaneous kills with the AoE build, though, but not for groups larger than three due to scattering. Using AoE on the Fahrunur run is a bit tricky since most groups aren't homogeneous and a few have some healing skills, so creatures tend to die at different times. This is a concern since the core question is whether or not killing many things at exactly the same time triggers a different drop mechanism. I think that in order to test the AoE vs. Sliver idea more thoroughly a different location must be used, specifically somewhere that's nuke-able, ideally in hard mode. It would also be nice if there were a group located close to the entry portal that could be used to judge synchronization. Any suggestions?
Skinny Corpse
Good job, Nechtan Thaumaturge.. very interesting.
I agree, for the aoe testing Fahranur might not be the best place.. but I actually haven't found any other place where you can determine sync that easily.. but we'll keep looking for sure. I'll try to do some testing in Fahranur this weekend to get some more results.
hallomik
I thought of a way to test this.
In Fahranur, there is an area where 12-15 scales congregate near the entrace to the undead section. In Normal mode, there is no scattering, so it would be simple to test a simultaneous kill (with something like radiation field) versus a slow, sequential kill (e.g., degen one at at time). Unlike the raptor cave, in Fahranur is it far easier to tell if you have achieved a synchronized entry by the composition of the mobs. Suggested approach: 1) both farmers synch enter in NM. 2) compare mob composition and kill first group of scales to ensure successful synched entry. 3) go directly to scale "pit" area and farm differently. 4) screenshot results. 5) repeat a few times and end controversy.
Skinny Corpse
Quote:
Originally Posted by hallomik
I thought of a way to test this.
In Fahranur, there is an area where 12-15 scales congregate near the entrace to the undead section. In Normal mode, there is no scattering, so it would be simple to test a simultaneous kill (with something like radiation field) versus a slow, sequential kill (e.g., degen one at at time). Unlike the raptor cave, in Fahranur is it far easier to tell if you have achieved a synchronized entry by the composition of the mobs. Suggested approach: 1) both farmers synch enter in NM. 2) compare mob composition and kill first group of scales to ensure successful synched entry. 3) go directly to scale "pit" area and farm differently. 4) screenshot results. 5) repeat a few times and end controversy. That is indeed the big mob we need for the test.. thanks for tip! I totally overlooked that one.
Nemo the Capitalist
wow g8 guide
Terrokian
So in essence to sum this whole farming issue up are you saying that once you hit an area all drops are already figured out for you?And that drops will be specific to your char build?
Skinny Corpse
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrokian
So in essence to sum this whole farming issue up are you saying that once you hit an area all drops are already figured out for you?And that drops will be specific to your char build?
From the testing we've done it shows that the drops are determined
upon entry into a zone.. but not specific to you build, as we've used different builds and professions.
Devonas big Sister
It may be farfetched, but i come up with another interesting theory:
The meaning of "bad spawn" could change drasticly with this. Since you guys are really into science  you should look for this to even consider my theory plausible: Check the way your spawn at the start is build up and compare it with the quality of the drops. Check Spawn location, patrol directions and professions in the spawn. Maybe you should also check the server IP/ID in the Ping-Dot. One extra thing is crossing my mind. I know you guys are out there: the GW BigFile Data readers. There is a very very small chance that it is possible to read and decode a formula that determines the drops/droprate/quality. If we consider the above theory to be true and we can get our hands on that formula (legally), then consider what it could do for the wealth ingame. It would make exclusive skins available for anyone without really dropping the prices. Time to pass the baton...
Antithesis
I think you'll find the gwdata file contains only graphics and physics of the engine. This saves us downloading the weighty data like textures when entering an instance.
It doesn't contain loot or AI info, that'd be loaded from the server when entering the instance. Phineas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antithesis
I think you'll find the gwdata file contains only graphics and physics of the engine. This saves us downloading the weighty data like textures when entering an instance.
It doesn't contain loot or AI info, that'd be loaded from the server when entering the instance. In which case it could be found in your RAM? Check your RAM and then decide whether it's worth continuing
Guardian Of Demons
This awesome im gonna try it myself with a buddy
Mr. Undisclosed
Just curious, dunno if its been mentioned before. What if the drops you don't share are because of your build?
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