PVE Attribute, stop the Grind Wars!

Guild Wars, not Grind Wars. The original idea with Guild Wars was to promote skills and not endless hours of grinding. Someone playing 1 hour a day should be able to enjoy the game as much as someone playing 8 hours a day.

Add a common PVE Attribute that any profession can access and invest attribute points in. Mix it with a limited grinding only. For example:

Grinding to max attribute 5, attribute points to max 10.

you don't need to use the pve skills

pve skills that require attribute points?

You don't even need to use any skills at all.
Shocker, no?

*Shocked*
And soon someone tells us we don't even have to play the game

Sure we don't. Playing the game you paid for is, y'know, optional ;d

/unsigned

The skills can be used with low levels in the rank track.

/unsigned

same reason as milan xD

I play less than 1hour per day and i'm pretty sure I don't have less fun than someone that plays 8 hours a day
I don't see why you have to have max damage PvE skills to have fun, i realy realy don't follow this thread at all

I second that, and ive said the same thing in the endless number of posts winging about pve only skill + titles.

You dont need to use pve only skills.

They do nothing except spice things up a bit. You have 100s of alternatives skills to use. You only want your pve only skills maxed out easier because their more powerfull. It has nothing to do with need, its all want.

I dont even have all the pve only skills because I dislike polymock and I cant beat the norn tournament. Do you see me winging and making statements like im disadvantages because of it. Nope!

If you want your pve only skills maxed then work for it, otherwise make do or dont use them. You dont need them to progress.

I for one don't play this game purely because there are PvE skills.

I would enjoy the game by playing 1 hour a day as much as someone playing 8 hours a day, because I accept that working to make PvE skills better is part of the game. As such, if you don't enjoy working for them however long it may take you why do you play?

Most PvE skills are perfectly usable at Rank 0/Rank 1 anyway...usually anything on top is a bonus.

No, but I think they make the game more accessible and more enjoyable in many ways. Players without some rank in these skills are at a disadvantage.

However, I disagree with the OP.

Casual players play essentially the same game that more dedicated gamers play, it just takes them longer. Well, so what?

GW's game/pve skill system is NOT unfair to casual players: the same rules apply to everyone. How long it takes you to achieve what you want is entirely your choice. If you put in the time, you reap the benefits.

Your point being what? I often play for very small amounts of time. I am having every bit as much fun as someone playing 8 hours a day. I am not at the level of other players who have more time, in terms of pve rank and skills, but, well, that's only fair because they put in the time to get there and I haven't (yet).

My advice: Go at your own pace and enjoy the game for what it is. The question is not whether Person A is having more fun than you but whether YOU are having fun. If the answer is no, then find another game.

Yeah, the skills make very little difference. Unless you're Racthoh sitting there spamming SY (TNTF too?) there's really no need for the pve skills or a high rank in their attributes.

But goodness knows BlackSephir will argue till the end of days for this kind of BS.

QFT.

Too many threads complaining about the game being boring/not fun/not rewarding. The reward for playing a game is fun. If you're not having it, there are other games and even, you know, a whole real world outside with things to do.

Yes, I will be a pain in ur ass :<

While I dont think this idea is the best way to deal with the issue.
I do agree that something needs to be done about time>skill.

It still is, for PvP (well, excluding fotm builds)

PvE was and still is in no way comparable to competitive

you grind for your armors, you grind for other titles, why not for some skills. If you don't want to, fine. PvE is still easy without them

Actually Pyro GW PvE as well as PvP is advertised as skill>time.

You also dont need to grind for armor, the only difference between the max AL armour is the appearance.
And the other titles dont grant ingame advantages for grinding them.

I have no problem with grind titles that dont give advantages, if people want to max them thats great. But when they offer an advantage, thats when the problem occours.

GW is advertised as a game where skill>time, offering advantages based on grinding titles is not skill>time.

As for you dont need them. Of course you dont.

You also dont need max weapons.
You dont need max armor.

But if you capped max armor until someone reached max rank in a title im sure you can see how its a problem.
It doesnt matter that you dont need it, what matters is there is a disadvantage for those that dont want to grind in a game that advertises skill>time.

People with R10 norn don't do too much more damage with UB than people with R5 norn. Saying you want only R8 and up is just stupid because a good player who knows the area and aggroes correctly is better than an R9 player new to the area and aggroes everything in sight. That's only a simple example.

the skills dont have huge spreads in effect depending on the title rank...and those that do have caps anyway. (pain inverter...caps at 80 damage per so bosses aren't being hit for 8973408023823 damage)

Whether you play 1 hour or 8 hours a day, the moment logging on feels like a chore, then you need to stop and reevaluate things. Take a break, walk around, visit w/ friends, and maybe pick up a new game.

No game can entertain someone forever - people tend to get bored, eventually.

I would suggest taking a break, and also bear in mind that we are unlikely to see any large-scale changes to GW1 at this point.

The only grind is what you make of it.

If you feel a need to grind for PvE titles, then it's time to take a break. I've enjoyed the game regardless of how high my PvE skills are.

As long as some players have access to high level pve skills, then yes, they are mandatory for playing Guildwars.
Right now, there are players with a real competitive advantage over others because of the the time they've spent playing (myself included), and as long as thats the case, we're not playing guildwars, we're playing a pale mockery of what the game once was.

That being said I'm not /signing the petition because I believe the correct solution is to bring PvE skills back into line with ordinary skills but to give them flash animations instead of giving them gamebreaking power.

he dose have a point and that beeing that guild wars kind of has be come grind wars sence the intro of the sunspear titles yes its cool to have pve only skills but at the same time i thought the hole point was skill> any kind of grind.

This game has becoming grinding-oriented ever since Factions. I like all the pretty words with: "No level grinding!"
Well, this is WORSE than level grinding. At least with level grinding, you get the small happiness whenever your integer goes up by 1, or more.

"You don't have to have it" is about the most retarded rebuttal ever. Think about it, that's like saying you don't need max level. So tell me this, when you go farm with a team, how come when they ask you to put some runes on and max my attributes, I can't use "I don't have to have it"?

Same thing with title grinding in general. Yeah, "I don't need to have these titles", but what else can I do in this game after beating it 10 times? Most games keep players because they have extreme grinds that are fun. GW has grinds that are NOT fun. All these people talk about WOW having more people as completely understandable because "90% of the people are idiots and they don't appreciate a skill-based game like GW" when GW itself has more grind than WOW right now.

I think it would be better to get rid of title grind related to the effectiviness of PvE skills.

Personally, I think we should get rid of both and give PvE some more meaning and love in skill development and balancing.

Go play WoW and then you'l appreciate how little grind GW actually has and how easly Anet gives us things in this game.

Competitive advantage? I don't think it's just an aesthetic choice by Anet that these skills are PvE only. They are not mandatory. For most of the game's lifetime they didn't even exist. Suddenly they come out and they're linked to titles, and that means now we can't play the game to its fullest without them?
Because ranks in a title and character levels are obviously the same thing, and what a team of other players expect from you is obviously an inherent quality of the game. Note the sarcasm. Clearly you're an expert as far as retarded rebuttals are concerned.

Yeah you go play WoW now. Go enjoy having so much less grind than in GW, and don't mind the distant sounds of me pointing at you and laughing.

Well said Fish, I have used them but I dont usually. Its just a bit of spice in the soup.

~the rat~

HOLY CRAP, REALLY? That's why the OP wants to get rid of PVE skills, because it disrupts his normal lifestyle... Lolz.

/notsigned

I've done this argument to death and I don't have the energy to do it again, but this is something I wanted to pick up on...

High-cap (or low-cap large-experience-gap) level grinds like WoW almost certainly do take more time than title grind. I haven't done any experiments to prove it, but that's the impression I get.

BUT...

Title grind is still worse grind, even if it may be shorter.

The reason? Experience treadmills reward you for whatever you do. Apart from walking around stomping mobs that are too low level to present a threat to you, you can do whatever you find to be fun and you will advance. Some styles of play may advance faster than others, but they'll all get you there eventually. You never feel that to advance you need to engage in activities that you don't enjoy just so you can advance. (Maybe so you can advance faster, but that's your choice.)

Title grind, however, only rewards certain specific forms of play. If you don't enjoy those forms, you either suck it up or don't advance. That's what makes it worse then level grind - you could have five or ten times the experience grind and not notice it because you're just playing normally, while the title grind may require to make several repetitions of the same area or otherwise engage in grinding behaviour.

On the actual suggestion... I agree in principle that the current situation is hardly optimal (I think PvE skills should have all been classed and tied to attributes from the start rather than the current 'have a freebie' feel), but I'm not convinced the proposed suggestion would actually help. /abstained

I was being sarcastic, good job with your retarded rebuttal.

Every game is grind. The good grinds are those you want to do. The bad grinds are those you don't want to do but still do because you have invested so much time in them it'd be a waste to stop now.
Ever wonder why more players play WOW than GW if the grind on WOW is so bad?

PvE skills are there for people that wish the level cap was higher. They're not necessary to succeed in the game, indeed there's nothing in the game that requires a PvE skill to be used to beat it.

Spending days on end mining materials from a hill, fishing for food, skinning animals or finding plants all to craft objects or potions in WoW. Compared to saving up a few gold in GWs and buying something from the merchant!

Spending weeks on end saving up the HUGE amounts of gold required to buy a piece of epic armor from the auction house in WoW or farming it endlessly from the boss with a 0.000001% drop rate. Compared to maybe a few days saving gold and the odd materials to get 15k armor in GWs .

Spending days on end leveling your character just so they are the right level to use more powerfull armor, more powerfull weapons or more powerfull skills in WoW. Compared to GWs where you can use any armor, any weapons and any skills at any level.

Spending days in WoW (alone) killing creatures over and over again just to level up, because you cant find anyone to help you do that one quest which your too low level to do alone and you cant progress unless you do it. Compared to GWs where you can take on any quest at any level and use AI to help you if you cant find a pug and you move to any point at any level too.

Alll those listed above are necessities in wow to progress! All things which are alot easier to access or achieve in GWs because Anet basically gives stuff away.

Titles, in GWs on the other hand mean nothing! The odd few might make some pve only skills more powerfull, but why exactly do you need those maxed out?

So you can do some more damage to destroyers or abaddons minions! WoW! I play Glints challenge with rank1-3 drawfs all the time and we seem to manage and most of them dont even bring alkars acid!

You have 100s of other skills at your disposal instead of having maxed out pve only skills. As for the titles which arent connected to skills, you dont need them maxed. Your choosing to do them.

There is far more grind in WoW which you DO need to do to progress, compared to grind in GWs which is completely optional. Your not forced to grind endlessly for anything, because you dont need the end result to progress ingame unlike WoW.

/not signed

There is nothing in this game that can't be done without the use of PvE only skills, they're just there as an option for the people who have put a little bit of extra work into titles that are optional, and honestly, the ones that actually take a lot of time to make useful (Kurzick/Luxon) aren't much more powerful than most regular skills.

"It's okay cause it's less than in WoW!"
Yeah, right.

Pretty much!

My titles are at 9,8,8,7 from just playing the game in nm and hm. I might have to farm the last rank from 9-10 but otherwise there is no need to FARM the titles so stop coming here with this bs because you want to max the titles easily. And I still have 13 dungeons to do and vanquish the areas, by then ill have them at basically all r10.

Yeah, some people don't give a shit about WoW and it's grind and don't care about that broken argument.
What's next, Tibia?

You really shouldn't have to grind to use these skills. Finish the storyline, do some dungeons. You should be r3-r5 in each rep, which is enough to use these skills in NM. Continue doing the storyline, dungeons and vanquishes in HM, where you can get higher rep so the skills are more useful for HM. Playing the game != grind.

Its called giving perspective and can you not reply to anything with the use of foul language? and explain how its a broken arguement?

Perhaps I should also make a comparison to Tibia (what ever that is) because if its anything like WoW then its relivant. The point I and others try to make, is that we are basically given most things in GWs on a silver platter compared to other MMOs or RPGs.

• Max armor is 1k + materials or it can be crafted from collectors.
• Max weapons are the same or can be crafted from collectors or you can buy the bonus pack and have instance access to max weapons.
• Skills are only 1k each max or you can buy the core skill pack and have all skills in pve instantly available to new characters from any skill trader (even newbie locations).
• Some skills are even given as quest rewards in other campaigns.
• We dont need to use potions or eat food to increase health.
• We dont need to get our armor fixed after fighting.
• We can re-skilpoint without paying.
• We can use any armor, weapons, skill, missions and quests and go anywhere ingame at any level (except GWEN).
• Elite skills are extremely easy to cap and only cost 1k and a skill point.
• We can share loot amoungst all your characters for free and easily.
• We can move between districts.
• We dont need to walk to locations, we just teleport there.
• The list could go on....

Not to mention in Factions you level up to 20 extremely fast and have max armor and weapons from Kam (which is reached very early). That also means characters in prophercies and NF can just travel to factions and get max gear sooner then they would in their own campaigns (basically a cheat).

Luxaries like elite armor, green weapons, all titles and pve only skills are purely a choice and should be earned! They are the nice things that we can choose to collect or max out once we have everything else.

Yet people still complain like its not enough that most aspects of the game (which are actually important) are just given to us. They want the luxary items just given out too.

Is it really so bad to have atleast a few things to actually work for ingame?

You have a game there which is extremely easy to play, nothing complicated and which gives you most everything cheaply or for free and you still complain!

Everything you need in order to play is easily achieved. Anything else should be earned!