Guild Wars and Solo Players

Playing this game by yourself is kind of pathetic. It ruins the whole point of online gaming. If you want a game that is solo oriented play Oblivion. I don't see why you browse these forums where you interact with people you don't know on a daily basis, yet you claim you like to play solo so you don't have to interact with people you don't know. That contradicts your entire argument.

Why would I buy another game? This game caters perfectly to those who like to play with other people. It is the solo people that should be finding another game.

I'm not even bitching. I'm just tired of people bitching that you go to certain places solo, as well as the difficulty to solo certain places. The game was not made to be a solo game, sorry.

According to the name of the game, yes it was. They added that shit in order to appeal to another group of people to make more money. Notice how in a lot of areas in this game you have to go with other people to enter?

Somebody didn't read the original Prophecies box. You picked up a game that caters to solo as well as team players (and most importantly, to people that just want to play with one or two people they actually know), if that bothers you so much I assure you that you're the one that bought the wrong game. This is not an MMO, this is not a "team only" game, and you can whine about people that won't play with you all you want, no one's going to change that. A huge part of the gaming market is people that enjoy playing by themselves, regardless of whether a game happens to be online or not.

I'm always amazed at how the people that most want others to group with them seem to invariably be the most selfish and obnoxious. "Play the game my way or get out" seem to be the rallying cry of the PUG crowd. Gee, why wouldn't I want to play with people like that?

The solo/small group crowd is not going to go away and not going to shut up. You can call us names all you like, it only proves to us that the last kind of game we're interested in is one where we have to play with you.

have you ever played early mmo's? they always had options to play solo and will continue to do so forever. its part of the mmo genre. your reasons saying its online and players have to group with each other is invalid. it doesnt matter if its online or not, they play these games TO PLAY THE GAMES! i bet when choosing to play mmo's, the first thing that comes to a player's mind is not playing with other people, but the gameplay and how much content it offers to enjoy. you cant always be dependant to playing with other people. you forgot that its also an rpg, everyone wants to develop their character on their own

i find it pathetic when mmo's first came out, everyone told the players to go out and do something else instead of playing these games. now that these same people who us that are playing mmo's, but now they trying to force us to group to be "social" and its "online"

you guys arent true gamers, just a bunch of forced-grouping social nazis

sometimes i get the impression you dont have friends in real life and for ones online, but cant because everyone is playing on their own and that makes you angry. which is why you go on a rampage to force everyone to play with you

seriously get a clue

if you want a game where you always interact with players for every little second, go join a social network game such as second life. leave the mmo's because obviously they arent meant for you. they are meant for gamers

You're an idiot.

Apparently you have never PvPed or played online FPS games, because that would require interaction with other players.

I'm not telling you to play the game it was meant to be played. I'm telling you that you have no right to bitch about it if you don't play it the way it is meant to be played.

yes i have, the reason i didnt mention pvp or online fps games because they are totally different. i know pvp actually requires team play and interaction with other players because its player vs player, you are not spending much time fighting with mindless npc's. online fps are way different from mmo's because you just log on, choose a game match, shoot a bunch of people on a map arena, hope that you will win, and thats it. online fps dont have the same amount of content as mmo's and there really isnt much on the roleplay and character development

Well thats your opinion. But thats a perfectly fine way to play a game.
Is it pathetic to play single player games?
Maybe I want the content of an online game, minus a few parts such as grouping.

There is a reason a lot of online game support solo play. Because there is a big group of players who play that way.

You assume the whole point is to play with other people?
Not everyone plays for the same reasons as you do.

You shouldnt have to buy another game.
Nor should solo players.
The game can be open to both players.

The game was advertised as a game that could be played with others or solo with AI.
Just because you prefer to play one way dont suggest everyone should have to.
Im not here trying to make you play solo or leave, im more than happy for you to carry on pugging.

Unfortunately for you, it was.

Its advertised that way, its been stated in interviews, it was reinforced with heroes in Nightfall and was reinforced again with heroes in GW:EN.

The game can be played solo and in groups, sorry.


hmm so they added the ability for people to solo.....but dont want people to solo.

Your right that does make sense.



At the end of the day the game supports both groups and solo play.
If you dont like solo play, no one is making you do it.
Why does it effect you anyways?
Let people play how they want.


*edit because I type slow*

Because those are PvP?
Where you need another player to play.

GW has PvE as well.
You do not need another player.


Sorry but we are playing it in one of the ways it can and was meant to be played.
Just because you dont choose to play that way doesnt change the fact its part of the game.

Bear in mind that some people's boxes (example: Minera's Europe Proph. box) didn't have that certain text.

That aside, I don't think there was ever an instance where any ANet official said "this game was meant to be played with people."

And oh boy, sorry Isileth but I'm gonna withdraw from this thread a bit. Looks like it'll get nasty!

Since you fail at comprehension: They don't care as much about solo players, therefore quit bitching like you guys are the only people who play this game. You are not the majority.

I said before that I'm sick of solo players bitching about hero caps, hard areas, etc. You are not the majority, so stop acting like your opinion is more important than every else's.

This game was marketed as a "competitive online role-playing game". Whom are you competing with if not other players? Danika and Brutus? Please.

Quoted for TRUTH.

True, however its also been stated in interviews and in statements etc.
So its not as if it isnt out there for people to read.

[quote-Bryant Again]
That aside, I don't think there was ever an instance where any ANet official said "this game was meant to be played with people."[/QUOTE]

Again true, they support both playstyles and they have a lot more players for that. Its great that they do support both as well.

There are a lot of people who enjoy both, playing with friends when they are on and going solo when they arent for example.

This is the core of your argument, and it can't be supported. If this is true, why does the game box from the original Prophecies explicitly state that the game can be played solo? I'd never have bought the game if I hadn't been explicitly assured in game advertising and on the box that the game was soloable, and I'm sure that's true of most other solo players. You're trying to tell me you know more about what the game was made to be than Anet does. I don't think so.

I lol'd. You're dumb.

If you don't like to interact with other players, why are you discussing with us on these forums? Contradiction much? I would just like a reasonable answer to that since judging by what you have posted before I think you just argue for the sake of arguing (see the hero thread).

I think you just argue for the sake of argument (see this thread)

People can play however they want. Solo players don't affect you and group players don't affect solo players. Stop complaining.

Who says they dont care about solo players? You? Do you have some inside info on the matter?

No one is acting like their opinion is more important, perhaps you maybe.
Everyones ingame experience is equal. No one is more or less important.

And how exactly are you competing with them when they are on your team?



Yeah it does look that way.

Guys remember this is just a game.
If people dont agree with you it doesnt matter, everyone is allowed their own opinion and view on things. Dont start attacking people because of that.

You are welcome to disagree and explain why, but dont attack the person. That achieves nothing.


*Edit to respond to missed posts again*

When did I say I dont like to interact with other people?
I just dont want to play a game how someone else tells me to play it.
I purchased it to play solo. Its advertised as a game you can play solo. Thats how I intend to play it.

As for arguing for the sake of it. Me a solo player discussing improving solo play.
How foolish of me! I almost thought that was a discussion relevant to my ingame playstyle.

Thanks for spotting that before I continued any further.

And as I said above (Just to make sure people spot it).

Dont attack the person.
Feel free to disagree and say why however. But personal attacks and such dont get anyone anywhere.

You fail at reading also, therefore I'm not going to give you a decent reply.

You are almost there. Make just one more logical inference. Hint: it starts and ends with P.

Oh I totally understand what you mean now. Not. Once again, Anet does not care if Guild Wars is played solo or with a team. Obviously this statement is reinforced with the addition of heroes and henchman. If Anet wanted this to be a team only game they would not have heroes or even henchman. If I do want to complain I'll complain. However I generally find that the people who do complain are the ones who fail at the game, regardless of whether they play solo or with pugs.

Solo play has nothing to do with PvP.

This is the discussion of solo play in PvE.

Im completely against AI in PvP if you must know.


And in PvE, in a game that advertises and supports solo play, I fully support and enjoy solo play.

You're on far firmer footing than Haxor, since the game was originally designed in such a way that the PvE portion was prelude to the PvP portion. Anet genuinely believed, apparently, that most everyone would want to play competitive multiplayer. I'm not sure why they thought that, and it's subsequently been vividly shown otherwise, but if you want to talk about design goals there it is.

Of course, the original design also required PvP players to first play through the PvE portion, so it's fairly clear that Anet originally intended everyone to play both. It's also worth noting that, since henchmen were there from the outset, PvE soloability was also always a design goal. The game's obviously evolved since those days to better meet the needs and requests of the player base (both for better and worse), but a PvPer like yourself can't be entirely unhappy that PvE and PvP were largely divorced from one another. Do you really want a bunch of PvE scrubs clogging up the competitive side of the game? I'd guess you're as happy about playing the game without them on your PvP team as I am about playing the game without them on my PvE team.

It's worth noting that, while I'm a huge advocate of solo play in PvE, I really don't think AI has any place in PvP at all.

You shouldn't have to buy another game. No one is asking you to. Guild Wars as it is works well for both players like you and also, for the most part, players like me who play on their own or with just one or two friends most of the time. That's one of the major reasons I like this game.

The Heroes and henches give GW1 players the option of either playing (i) alone plus h/h's, (ii) with one or two other players plus h/h's, or (iii) with a full group of 8 people and no h/h's. If GW2 retains this flexibility somehow without having Heroes and henches to complete a party, then that will be great. As far as I can tell, there is only one way to do this without having henchmen: scaled instances. I would think, however, from a programming standpoint, that the use heroes and henchmen (as in GW1) would be easier and a more logical way to go, but I admit I am no programmer.

It will be interesting to see what ArenaNet decides to do with regard to the instance content in GW2. If, however, GW2's instanced areas cannot be soloed as they can in GW1, I think the GW franchise will lose a lot of players.

This is an MMORPG. If you define the acronym, it will tell you the answer of whether this game is meant for solo play. I have nothing wrong with solo play, I just feel that if you play this game by yourself you are playing it incorrectly.

Hint: Massively M...

It's a actually CORPG according to Anet.

Yes I realize, it has to do with the fact that everything is instanced (except for outposts of course).

As The Phantom said, GW isnt an MMORPG.

Its a CORPG. One of the defining features being instanced zones which allow for AI teams like we have currently.

Also even if you feel people are playing it incorrectly (Which I hope we have established by now is incorrect) how does that affect you? It always strikes me as odd that people have a problem with others playing it a different way than they choose to.

Dude... the henchmen/heroes aren't just there for the scenery.

Personally I'm glad there is some soloability in this game - lets you do two things PUGs don't:
1) Do whatever you feel like - "LFG for Shattered Ravines cartography" ... yeah right
2) Perform better. Because, seriously, H/H parties are usually better than PUGs; I recall a Boreas Seabed PUG I joined for the heck of it failing 3 or 4 times to Argo... passed it on the first try with all henchmen.

Henchmen and heroes follow basic directions and understand rudimentary basics of kiting. PvE pugs do not. As such, I only play with friends or heroes nowadays.

- Just like Diablo II. Companion mercenary and difficulty scaling was probably the most logical thing to do. Difference to GW is that we don't have potions to replenish health - that is done by Monks in team. While the game design is supposed to be very party-oriented with distinct roles for each profession, it doesn't work with anything else in the game.

First of all, it's a pain to get the right professions in the team. Everyone remembers what kind of pain it was in Prophecies when Alesia sucked balls and there was never Monks to group. I've been playing Monk since the beginning, so everyone literally begged me to come join their parties on every single outpost.

Secondly, the goals are individual. You've vanguished area X, you don't return to do it anymore. And why would you? There's no reward for completing something for second time. What PUGers thus get are first-timers.

And this heroes vs. human groups discussion.
Just a moment ago I went to Gunnar's Hold looking for hard mode vanquishing group, since there's double rewards for that after all. Obviously there was none, so I started my own. I got a few players and I realized what enormous amount of management is needed to pull a decent PUG together.
Can you access hard mode? (not everyone knows they have to finish EotN first)
Do you have equipped and runed heroes? (need something to fill those spots)
Do you have PvE skills? (really helps in hard mode)
Do you have Norn title? (really helps in hard mode)
What profession are you? (no need for 'sins and rits thanks)
Do you have these skills XYZ? (not everyone is fully unlocked)

When I finish EotN, it's done for the whole account in regards to access to hard mode. That's it. I need not to think about it anymore. However, PUGs are in constant state of beginner and I almost feel bad about being so pushy about every single small detail.

I'm left contemplating why wouldn't I just turn my brain off and go farm those stupid game-affecting titles and runes and then just finish hard mode on my own. But then again, what's the point to finish all that when the game's not social at all? I mean bragging rights is a social accomplishment? Ultimate I would like to play that perfect character in a PUG that saves everyone else. That's the reason to farm for PvE skills, nothing else.

Anet never said this! Quit putting words in their mouth. The only thing I remember reading in those threads is that Anet said "no" because the game wasn't designed to play with 7 heroes.

The option of being able to play solo is what makes this a great game. I have tried many pugs and they all have had the same problem that some people posting in this thread have: They think that the ONLY way to play the game is their way. Their build, their group composition, their strategy, etc.

I never would have bought the game is you could not play solo. I think Anet realizes this and will accomodate the solo player.

GW2 sounds like it will be alot like Dark Ages of Camelot. It has alot of fully persistant areas with many instanced dungeons and such. The persistant areas are set at a certain level and the instanced areas are set according to party size. This works out quite well. It keeps it accessable to solo-small party size groups and scales up to large groups without making it too easy.

For me the biggest let down in GW was its pvp. Camelot's pvp was a wide open persistant world that could have hundreds of players fighting at once. Basicly you were on 1 of 3 different realms that was trying to hold your own region and at the same time trying to take over the other 2 realms. You had no idea who was out there and how many there were to fight. This encouraged players to band together for strength. Imagine your pvp world was an area equal to any one of GW's entire campaigns.

GW's pvp is too small and limited in scope. I have to either fight solo, or in very small groups against a known size enemy on limited maps. It just doesn't hold my attention very long. After playing awhile it gets to be very perdictable.

But i digress, anyway I hope that GW2 does cater to both the solo and group style of play. And I hope their pvp scope matches the pve aspect of the game.

my reason why I dont party with my guild members are because I am not always sure I can play thru the whole map without having to do something else...

can you imagine without H/H, 1-2 players in your team have to do something or have to leave, thus you can either suck it up and try to finish or try to regroup and hope not to get an immature player...

Maybe if certain players would stop calling others pathetic; also lest we forget noob, idiots, and trying to play the online bully, perhaps the "Co-op" portion of the game would learn to thrive. Maybe the ability of pug's would improve. Maybe player skill would improve. However, as long as there will be Online gaming, so will there be online egos. As long as those ego's feel the need to step on everyones toes, online games will provide players the tools to tune out other players.


Guild Wars is meant to be played the way each individual player sees fit to play it. Period. You're not the decider. The player is.


You play GW the way you feel is best for you. It's not my business if you prefer pugs, or spend every hour in PvP; that you thrive on large scale competition. So be it. That's how you like it. If someone else doesn't, don't label them pathetic. That, in itself, is pathetic.

According to whom and are you speaking for the actual majority? Let's be honest - There is no majority in this game. You have pvp only players. PvE only players. You have players who play both. You have large scale guild players who do nothing but GvG. You have players who like to do nothing more than farm, buy, trade, and sell. You have hardcore, "Do everything, beat everything, learn everything, I will be the best" players. You have the laid back, "Dude I just want to have a good time" players. You have the highly sociable players who help, laugh, teach, and share information. You have the hard headed, authoritative, don't talk to me or I'll eat your face off, players.

Whether anyone wants to admit it, or not, Guild Wars does its best to cater to all styles of play. Solo, co-op, competitive, pve, and pvp. Whatever a player choose to do in his/her Guild Wars career is up to them and noone else.

You're right. They're not more important. They're equal. As much as you're sick of certain topics pertaining to one groups style of play, I'm sure they're equally sick of hearing about how "Pathetic" their skill bar must be because noone will offer genuine advice; rather move right into the name calling.

Guru posters come from countless walks of GW life and represent many areas of the game. As much as one group complains about something, another group equally voices discontent about another portion. The slices of the pie are divided rather evenly around here.

Let's make a clarification, shall we? A lot of players love interacting with others except when the "others" attitude is less than appealing to interact with.

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't exactly like being at a party, or social event in real life, with a group of bad attitudes who thinks the DJ sucks, the drinks suck, the dance floor sucks, the food sucks, that persons clothes suck, this room sucks...everything sucks. Spare me the doom and gloom.

Given a choice:
.....to pug with a happy go lucky group, who before attempting a mission (lets use gate of madness for example) talks openly and clearly without insults, or authority, towards other members about approach, skills, and execution when it comes to the end portions of the mission.......

VS:

.....to pug where the members are not helpful, look at a skillbar and "lol", label the player as noob, pathetic, laughs at their LB rank, and auto-kicks them.......


I choose number 1.

I will never, ever, boot a player for a skill bar that may not work well in a certain area. I will make suggestions and reasons behind them when discussing our plans. I will do so like an adult. If they lack certain skills, I'll pick up my own slack for the sake of the group and our success.

I have and will continually boot players from pugs, or leave a pug, the moment any one player shows any signs of being a "Problem child".


So it goes back to the early part of this post. If you and others really want the co-op area of this game to start thriving, it doesn't start with Anet. It starts with you. Until that changes, many players will stick to their heros and henchies; something installed purposely by developers for players who enjoy, and have the absolute right without anyone elses permission, to play Solo.

yep its obvious you have never played an mmo before. an mmo doesnt always mean grouping with others to play. its having multiple players logging similtaneously online of the same game together, it doesnt necessarily mean you have to group up to actually play the game.

- Short lesson on politics: never say that common people should change themselves. That is one thing that will never change. Just like we don't stop climate change by instructing consumers to consume less electricity, but rather change technology to more ecologically sensitive direction.

- Guild Wars was meant to be played in human groups until ANET realized why it didn't work and added heroes.

- Mr. holier-than-thou is willing to compromize the success of himself and six others because one noob doesn't quite carry his weight in PUG team. It's your moral choice, but I would personally choose success for majority. It's because of people like you why PUGs suck so big time, and because PUGs suck so big time, no one who knows how to play will join them. When skilled players don't join... the vicious circle is complete.

- Doing so, aren't you also a "problem child"?

I played Ultima Online when I was 12-13 years old where I learned that it was impossible to be successful in an online game without interaction with other people. In that game you would basically get the shit kicked out of you unless you had some people that could watch your back. Obviously, it wasn't necessary to group with people for everything, but it was very helpful to do so for a lot of things.

Solo play is great for specific tasks like skill capping, map scraping, farming bosses, etc. However, common tasks such as mission completion is something I think that should be done with group play. It is extremely helpful for new players to observe experienced players in order to help them learn how to play this game effectively. It was helpful for me when I first started Guild Wars, and I've been playing since like 1 month after the release of the first game. This experience also helped me find a lot of friends in this game, some of which I still have contact with in game, some of which have moved on to other things. It seems like since the introduction of heroes that part of the game has been lost since experienced players tend to just go by themselves. Some PuGs may be bad, but I guarantee you they are at least always interesting. That is the thing I love most about PuGs.

For me the issue of solo play is one of convinience.

I've played GW since early 2005, I've played with PUG's, Guildies, 7Hench and Hench/Heros.

When I choose to play with 7 AI its because I know I don't have the time to put forth the effort that is expected with a full party of live people.

When I H/H I have no fear of party wipes or 60%dp. I can take my time and stop to do laundry or watch a TV show that catches my eye. I can simply log out in the middle of a mission/quest/dungeon if I need to with no harm to anyone else.

When I am with live people I take great care not to cause a pary wipe, or to leave in the middle, or even go afk unless totaly unavoidable. And I expect the exact same curtousy form those I play with.

I avoid subjecting others to stress when I am chasing a goal that is self serving. This includes skill capping/farming/vanquisihing/titles.

You wouldnt want somebody to form a party so one person in that party could sit in Lions Arch and sell an item for an hour.

While I fully suport the necesity of full live parties for some aspects of this game, even if its forced upon players, I however do not believe every aspect of this game should be so. Some aspects of GW should be made a little freindlier to the solo player while other aspects should enforce more co-operative play.

The biggest thing GW2 needs is the ability to have the leader select a quest from among those of the party members, and to have all those involved share in the end of quest reward; either by them getting some extra xp or other rewards. This should *not* cut into the rewards of the quest owner, though.

Above and beyond that, I'd like to see a choice of build templates for henchmen, and possibly some light scripting ability for heroes, (such as heal me when < 80% health, or don't rez if under attack, etc).

One final though would be to add more diversity to weapon mods - things such as IAS on a weapon, increased run speed on armor, % chance for an effect (like bleeding/kd) on a weapon, etc. They could be only small per cents so as to not be overpowering.

To me this was very easy with h/h I have done every single dungeon(except duncan) and every quest with h/h and it took me all of 4-5 hours to beat eotn. So imo this is totally wrong.

I couldnt disagree more.
There have been many missions ive tried with real players and we fail. I take h/h with me and get masters every time.

I don't know what to say to that.

Other than: Find better players. If you have crap people on your team of course you will fail.

I hope you're not going to try to prove that your H/H squad can outperform 8 skilled players.