The Flesh Golem
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Do they really have the same AI?
It's the bald that does it.Seriously. Look at Vin Diesel. Awesome and bald. Coincidence?
I think not.
Mark Nevermiss
I dont know but I tried Livia and Olias both with a generic jagged bones build, and Livia was always ahead of Olias in terms of the number of minions summoned and maintained.
On another note, beating AI at enchanting minions with death nova and jagged bones[if used] is really very hard. TBH there is no way in hell I'd play a MM on my necro. Its way too much work for me.
On another note, beating AI at enchanting minions with death nova and jagged bones[if used] is really very hard. TBH there is no way in hell I'd play a MM on my necro. Its way too much work for me.
Online Gamer
yea some people think that
Quaker
I don't know if it's "work" so much, but you spend so much time making minions, healing minions, healing yourself, etc., you don't get to see the action. 
I haven't played my Necro since Heroes arrived
I haven't played my Necro since Heroes arrived
Online Gamer
lol good point i like pulling them and then making a meatshield and then rangers barrage and ele fire storm the hell out of them. Also warriors go in and do some damage and the meat shields take all the damage so the tanks don't take any. It works well =D
blue.rellik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaker
But at any rate, I find that Livia doesn't use BotM all that much, she tends to make new minions instead. When she does use it (which is nearly always after the battle), she loses about 131HP (23% of 570) which is nearly negated by the 110HP she gets from Heal Area (with 8 in HP).
In any case, with sufficient corpses, she is able to maintain 9 minions more or less constantly, whether she uses Flesh Golem or Jagged Bones and in spite of not using AotL. (she's using [wiki]Dark Bond[/wiki] atm, btw, but that's also in "testing phase" along with Jagged Bones.)
She seems to survive a lot better with more health. Jagged Bones doesn't seem to be any better in the long run, then Flesh Golem. Dude what? That means you had 600 without AotL which means you're using vigor runes
You NEVER user vigor runes with a MM. When I MM, I use 2 sups and all radiants + attunement (and bloodstained) which means I have like 180ish health with AotL. With 10 minions, that's 45/2 = 22.5 (round up in this case), 23 life per use.
Dangerous what?
Turbobusa
Erm with Aotl you can easily use vigor runes, it's not like 10hp more to sac is hard to heal. On normal MMs though I agree.
Estic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbobusa
Erm with Aotl you can easily use vigor runes, it's not like 10hp more to sac is hard to heal. On normal MMs though I agree.
But if you use AotL what's the point in using a vigor?
Washi
Flesh Golem has one really awesome feature. He is level 26 at 16 dm and there is one crazy overpowered skill that exploits this.
[skill]Ancestors' Rage[/skill]
If you use it on FG it counts as if he does the damage, and because he is high level, the damage is much higher due to damage formula.
[skill]Ancestors' Rage[/skill]
If you use it on FG it counts as if he does the damage, and because he is high level, the damage is much higher due to damage formula.
Magikarp
wtf's going on in this thread? so many people posting so many wrong and crazy things...
just follow the better advice of using Jagged Bones, OoU, or AotL. Flesh Golem just isn't as good as those choices.
boom, thread over.. now please end this jumble of nonsense.
just follow the better advice of using Jagged Bones, OoU, or AotL. Flesh Golem just isn't as good as those choices.
boom, thread over.. now please end this jumble of nonsense.
ZenRgy
AotL/Jagged Bones + Jaggeds / Horrors + Death Nova = epic.
Death Nova is crazy damage, especially if you renew minions rather than sitting there and spamming BotM since minion degen over time will just become so heavy it's ridiculous managing it.
Or you could bring an SS/Barbs/Curse hero and watch Minions + Barbs tear everything apart.
Death Nova is crazy damage, especially if you renew minions rather than sitting there and spamming BotM since minion degen over time will just become so heavy it's ridiculous managing it.
Or you could bring an SS/Barbs/Curse hero and watch Minions + Barbs tear everything apart.
blue.rellik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbobusa
Erm with Aotl you can easily use vigor runes, it's not like 10hp more to sac is hard to heal. On normal MMs though I agree.
As Estic said, why?
Turbobusa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estic
But if you use AotL what's the point in using a vigor?
Easy MMing. get your minions up, spam Botm as needed.
The main attract of AotL is the quarter sac to allow you to keep your minions alive.
Whether you lose 37or 25 hp a sac instead of 100, I think you're happy enough.
I understand and agree why you wouldn't want any vigor on a normal MM, there is just less impact of bringing one on a AotL MM. Of course if you can afford the perfect equipement you should go for that, though I wouldn't lower my HP below 200.
The main attract of AotL is the quarter sac to allow you to keep your minions alive.
Whether you lose 37or 25 hp a sac instead of 100, I think you're happy enough.
I understand and agree why you wouldn't want any vigor on a normal MM, there is just less impact of bringing one on a AotL MM. Of course if you can afford the perfect equipement you should go for that, though I wouldn't lower my HP below 200.
System_Crush
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estic
But if you use AotL what's the point in using a vigor?
Health stealing is not reduced by AotL, Arragodons where handing me my /ss yesterday, because 1 or 2 of their hits > than my total health.
By the time I figured I should not use AotL I was already at 40% DP.
It was however the large groups of raptors and not having an SS with us that made us fail the vanquish IM(I)O
But it's not like I have money or room to get another armor set with vigor instead of attuned.
By the time I figured I should not use AotL I was already at 40% DP.
It was however the large groups of raptors and not having an SS with us that made us fail the vanquish IM(I)O
But it's not like I have money or room to get another armor set with vigor instead of attuned.
odly
When running a hero MM nothing beats Jagged Bones + Death Nova.
When playing an MM myself I like using [wiki]Icy Veins[/wiki] together with [wiki]putrid bile[/wiki]. This gives a pretty nice boom.
When playing an MM myself I like using [wiki]Icy Veins[/wiki] together with [wiki]putrid bile[/wiki]. This gives a pretty nice boom.
Washi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbobusa
Washi, this is wrong, the damage doesn't rely on the level of the damager, but on the armor of the foe and on the attibute of the skill.
I don't want to be rude but you need to play this game a little longer to understand some mechanics. If you don't know how damage is calculated why do you argue?
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10230697
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10230697
Turbobusa
First that's an exception, secondly, 2 years not enough?
Gratz on reading a 10 days old thread and spreading the news as if it was old knowledge.
Yeah, you were rude.
Gratz on reading a 10 days old thread and spreading the news as if it was old knowledge.
Yeah, you were rude.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbobusa
First that's an exception,
Actually, the Flesh Golem thing isn't an 'exception' - it's just how damage from spells works in Guild Wars.
If a level 5 Ele casts a Flare saying it'll do 27 damage, and a level 20 Ele casts a Flare doing 27 damage as well, the level 20 Ele will deal more damage.
IIRC, though, damage from Weapons is not affected by level - a level 17 Warrior with 14 Swordsmanship will deal as much damage as a level 20 Warrior with 14 Swords; as weapon damage is calculated independently of level (albeit with a lower crit rate... ugh, so many things to remember
)
Just clearing a few things up.
If a level 5 Ele casts a Flare saying it'll do 27 damage, and a level 20 Ele casts a Flare doing 27 damage as well, the level 20 Ele will deal more damage.
IIRC, though, damage from Weapons is not affected by level - a level 17 Warrior with 14 Swordsmanship will deal as much damage as a level 20 Warrior with 14 Swords; as weapon damage is calculated independently of level (albeit with a lower crit rate... ugh, so many things to remember
)Just clearing a few things up.
Washi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbobusa
First that's an exception, secondly, 2 years not enough?
Gratz on reading a 10 days old thread and spreading the news as if it was old knowledge.
Yeah, you were rude. LOL @ "spreading the news"
I just pointed out the only good thing about a golem. Cause other than that it's usefulness is rather questionable.
And if you are oh so experienced you should've known how spells work.
Gratz on reading a 10 days old thread and spreading the news as if it was old knowledge.
Yeah, you were rude. LOL @ "spreading the news"
I just pointed out the only good thing about a golem. Cause other than that it's usefulness is rather questionable.
And if you are oh so experienced you should've known how spells work.
Estic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbobusa
Easy MMing. get your minions up, spam Botm as needed.
The main attract of AotL is the quarter sac to allow you to keep your minions alive.
Whether you lose 37or 25 hp a sac instead of 100, I think you're happy enough.
I understand and agree why you wouldn't want any vigor on a normal MM, there is just less impact of bringing one on a AotL MM. Of course if you can afford the perfect equipement you should go for that, though I wouldn't lower my HP below 200. But if you use AotL in combo with Mystic Regeneration things are not going to one shot kill you. Whether you have 180 or 200 hp. Then it is a question of whether or not you can have full health for the next hit that comes through. If you do not run a vigor rune chances are greater that MR has your health at max before the next hit. Using vigors actually makes it harder MM'ing if you ask me.
This of course omits exceptions like the life steal by the Angorodrons as pointed out by System Crush. But using AotL in that area is pretty much suicide anyway. Sup vigor or not.
The main attract of AotL is the quarter sac to allow you to keep your minions alive.
Whether you lose 37or 25 hp a sac instead of 100, I think you're happy enough.
I understand and agree why you wouldn't want any vigor on a normal MM, there is just less impact of bringing one on a AotL MM. Of course if you can afford the perfect equipement you should go for that, though I wouldn't lower my HP below 200. But if you use AotL in combo with Mystic Regeneration things are not going to one shot kill you. Whether you have 180 or 200 hp. Then it is a question of whether or not you can have full health for the next hit that comes through. If you do not run a vigor rune chances are greater that MR has your health at max before the next hit. Using vigors actually makes it harder MM'ing if you ask me.
This of course omits exceptions like the life steal by the Angorodrons as pointed out by System Crush. But using AotL in that area is pretty much suicide anyway. Sup vigor or not.
Turbobusa
What I meant is that a sup vigor has less impact when used with aura of the lich.
Therefore you can afford not to have another set of armor (My inventory is generally full of stuff).
But I could use of fast cast boots with whatever rune on it and some other boots with survivor/vigor
Washi, I do not claim to be ho so experienced, I just say that I have some experience.Plus this was "discovered" like 2 weeks ago so it has nothing to do with experience.
Anyway I gave a try at golem bombing, but seeing how hard it is to target him and how dumb he is, that's hardly worth it.
Therefore you can afford not to have another set of armor (My inventory is generally full of stuff).
But I could use of fast cast boots with whatever rune on it and some other boots with survivor/vigor
Washi, I do not claim to be ho so experienced, I just say that I have some experience.Plus this was "discovered" like 2 weeks ago so it has nothing to do with experience.
Anyway I gave a try at golem bombing, but seeing how hard it is to target him and how dumb he is, that's hardly worth it.
Estic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbobusa
What I meant is that a sup vigor has less impact when used with aura of the lich.
I know that, but it still is not a benefit. Unless for exceptions you are not going to get killed in one hit. Now with a sup vigor you sacrifice more health and you regen slower. I view that as a drawback.
I just don't see why you would splash out on a sup vigor (or any other vigor rune) for an MM build. If you only have enough money for 1 armor, and want to run curses or something else as well, put the (sup) vigor on your cheapest armor piece, say you arms. Then buy another set of arms and do not apply a vigor rune to it. Switch as needed, problem solved.
Edit: Ah, I see you edited your message. Well, then we are in agreement I guess
. Putting the vigor on the boots and having a bloodstained pair at the ready seems like a good idea then.
I just don't see why you would splash out on a sup vigor (or any other vigor rune) for an MM build. If you only have enough money for 1 armor, and want to run curses or something else as well, put the (sup) vigor on your cheapest armor piece, say you arms. Then buy another set of arms and do not apply a vigor rune to it. Switch as needed, problem solved.
Edit: Ah, I see you edited your message. Well, then we are in agreement I guess
. Putting the vigor on the boots and having a bloodstained pair at the ready seems like a good idea then.
Washi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbobusa
Washi, I do not claim to be ho so experienced, I just say that I have some experience.Plus this was "discovered" like 2 weeks ago so it has nothing to do with experience.
"It was discoverd" doesnt equal "it was posted on guru".
Anyway this discussion is kinda pointless, Golem is a waste of elite slot, period.
Anyway this discussion is kinda pointless, Golem is a waste of elite slot, period.
DRGN
Flesh Golem works for heroes. I don't trust them with OoU. Did it a few times and this is how it went
Olias: OH RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO FOUR FEROTHRAXES TRAINING ON ME
[skill]Order of Undeath[/skill]
/die
Olias: OH RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO FOUR FEROTHRAXES TRAINING ON ME
[skill]Order of Undeath[/skill]
/die
Chthon
Sigh... I marvel at Online Gamer's ability to rehash every single settled topic on these boards...
Flesh Golem:
Flesh Golem is not a bad skill. You could even call it a good skill. Depending on your fiend/horror ratio, it's going to boost your total DPS by 10-20%, and it tanks quite well. However, it's just not as good as other options. Order of Undeath gives a lot more DPS. AotL enables better unfocused tanking by propping up multiple horrors with BotM spam. If you really needed focused tanking, your group would have a warrior, so the FG is not needed for that task. Rarely are you going to come across a situation where FG does what you need done better than one of these two other spells.
Jagged Bones:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaker
Flesh Golem:
Flesh Golem is not a bad skill. You could even call it a good skill. Depending on your fiend/horror ratio, it's going to boost your total DPS by 10-20%, and it tanks quite well. However, it's just not as good as other options. Order of Undeath gives a lot more DPS. AotL enables better unfocused tanking by propping up multiple horrors with BotM spam. If you really needed focused tanking, your group would have a warrior, so the FG is not needed for that task. Rarely are you going to come across a situation where FG does what you need done better than one of these two other spells.
Jagged Bones:
Quote:
Hero AI:
Quote: Originally Posted by Quaker But at any rate, I find that Livia doesn't use BotM all that much, she tends to make new minions instead. Your observation is correct. The hero AI has some serious IQ deficit problems with a number of important MM functions, including using BotM properly. Simply put, the heroes are just too dumb to do a Minion Master correctly. (A corollary here is that anyone who believes the heroes make better MM's than players has no idea how to play MM, and has probably never even seen a good MM.)
On the other hand, the hero AI is particularly good at doing some Minion Bomber functions that humans can't do very well at all because of the lack of a minion interface -- specifically "knowing" which minions have which enchantments and instantly targeting the right minions for Death Nova, Jagged Bones, and Taste/Putrid.
So, if you want to get the best mileage out of the heroes, always use Minion Bomber builds on heroes, and never Minion Master builds. Even though MB builds are inherently less powerful than MM builds (if you were to compare perfect usage of each), the hero AI is so much better at handling a MB build that you will get better performance.
Ancestor's Rage:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
Actually, the Flesh Golem thing isn't an 'exception' - it's just how damage from spells works in Guild Wars.
I suppose it's not an exception, because splinter does the same thing, but it's most definitely a bug. All spells should always use the caster's level to calculate their Baseline, and not someone else's. That's just common sense. This one doesn't. Oh well. Go abuse it while you can I guess. 1. A decent MM does take advantage of fresh corpses. Why are you saying they don't?The AB MM Build: Quote:
How does more health make it easier to MM?
Quote:
2. BotM + a good self heal allows a MM to maintain a full army of 10 indefinitely. JB does not allow a MB to do so -- without faster recharge, JB alone can only maintain 2 minions indefinitely. 3. If you're in an area where you have to be "clinging to decaying minions," that's a good indication that corpses are too scarce for any minion build to work well. 4. Did I not say: Quote: Jagged Bones is positively amazing for Minion Bombers. ? Quote:
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