E/any shattersteam pressure.
12+3+1 water magic
12+1 fire magic
3 energy storage
1. Glyph of Immolation (Fire 13)
2. Shatterstone {Elite} (Water 16)
3. Glowing Ice (Water 16)
4. Steam (Water 16)
5. Glowing Gaze (Fire 13)
6. Water attunement (Water 16)
7. Aura of Restoration (Energy Storage 3)
8. Open slot, see below.
Keep enchantments up, press 1-5, repeat. Sometimes you'll need to choose between leading with a blind (heavy pressure on your team) or using steam to coincide with shatterstones detonation (trying to catch healers offguard). Other than that it pretty much runs itself.
Some details about the build.
From shatterstone landing till shatterstone finishing, you deal 395 damage. The whole chain does 523 damage, and is repeatable every 11 seconds, equalling about 48 dps. No energy problems.
You also apply a nice cover hex for your team mates, as removing shatterstone is largely pointless.
Plus of course the blind and burning conditions.
All in all you'll have enemy monks giving their whole bar a good work out all on your own.
The open slot is really open. I run flame djinns haste, armor of mist, mantra of concentration, gaze of contempt, draw conditions and freezing gust situationally.
Depending what you put in the open slot, you may also wish to swap out aura of restoration. While it is fairly effective on the build, equalling about 3 pips of health regen when you aren't being interrupted, obviously it's the spell that has the least synergy with the rest of the build. For example, switching aura of restoration for armor of mist and adding mantra of concentration actually improves your durability.
Of course there are obvious weaknesses. It's very easy to prot against, you'll have to find or create unprotected targets to maintain your damage output. The blind is much easier to interrupt and on a longer recharge than an air ele blind. Your spells are heavily synergistic, if one gets shut down, at least 1 other loses a lot of effectiveness.
These last 2 in particular mean magebanes can be quite devastating. There are ways to deal with being pressured by an r/mo, but they are certainly your biggest problem.
Give it a try, see what you think.
Build submission
Another Child
Tab
If you must spike with Shatterstone, just use:
[skill]shatterstone[/skill][skill]vapor blade[/skill][skill]freezing gust[/skill][skill]blurred vision[/skill][skill]augury of death[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]water attunement[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]
[skill]shatterstone[/skill][skill]vapor blade[/skill][skill]freezing gust[/skill][skill]blurred vision[/skill][skill]augury of death[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]water attunement[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]
Another Child
It's not a spike build.
Tab
I would say that casting a chain of damage skills in a short space of time on a single target makes a (bad) spike.
Stormlord Alex
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Originally Posted by Another Child
It's not a spike build.
Shatterstone is a (support-) spike skill. Trying to pressure with it isn't particularly good; it'd be like trying to pump out DPS with an SP 'sin.
If you want a pressure-based Ele, Mind Blast beckons.
If you want a pressure-based Ele, Mind Blast beckons.
Another Child
I guess you didn't read the summary all the way through then. No problem, I'll go over it again quickly. It's designed to be spammable. The damage output is equivalent to a constant 24 pips of health degen, but the damage does come in a spiky fashion, while applying conditions and covering hexes, making it a bit harder to cope with than pure degen, if you could even stack degen that high.
Another Child
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Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
Shatterstone is a (support-) spike skill. Trying to pressure with it isn't particularly good; it'd be like trying to pump out DPS with an SP 'sin.
If you want a pressure-based Ele, Mind Blast beckons. Ok, I'm hating to sound like the super defensive build guy here, but you are judging the build based on your past experience with one of the skills in it, forcing me into that position. The build isn't 1. shatterstone, 2-8. other stuff. 48 dps is actually fairly significant pressure.
If you want a pressure-based Ele, Mind Blast beckons. Ok, I'm hating to sound like the super defensive build guy here, but you are judging the build based on your past experience with one of the skills in it, forcing me into that position. The build isn't 1. shatterstone, 2-8. other stuff. 48 dps is actually fairly significant pressure.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Another Child
I guess you didn't read the summary all the way through then. No problem, I'll go over it again quickly. It's designed to be spammable. The damage output is equivalent to a constant 24 pips of health degen, but the damage does come in a spiky fashion, while applying conditions and covering hexes, making it a bit harder to cope with than pure degen, if you could even stack degen that high.
48 dps is bad.
It may be good for a Water guy, but it's still bad - a warrior can match that without batting an eyelid.
Besides, you've said it yourself - you frontload all your skills into an initial chain, then waitin on recharges. That is the definition of a spike. The difference is, ibreak's build frontloads more damage alongside DW, as well as minor shutdown, and can feasibly get kills.
It may be good for a Water guy, but it's still bad - a warrior can match that without batting an eyelid.
Besides, you've said it yourself - you frontload all your skills into an initial chain, then waitin on recharges. That is the definition of a spike. The difference is, ibreak's build frontloads more damage alongside DW, as well as minor shutdown, and can feasibly get kills.
Another Child
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
48 dps is bad.
It may be good for a Water guy, but it's still bad - a warrior can match that without batting an eyelid.
Besides, you've said it yourself - you frontload all your skills into an initial chain, then waitin on recharges. That is the definition of a spike. The difference is, ibreak's build frontloads more damage alongside DW, as well as minor shutdown, and can feasibly get kills. I'm sorry to come off as rude, but you are being ignorant. Warriors do not do 48 sustained dps. During a spike they do, spamming a skill every attack, with an IAS up, they might climb as high as 60. This build is at 133 during a spike. In the meantime, it's simply dealing more damage than the warrior, and maintaining it forever, unlike the vapor blade. I'm sorry, but shatterstone/vaporblade is where this started out. I improved on it.
And by the way, this could apply a deep wound if the team didn't have another source too o.0.
It may be good for a Water guy, but it's still bad - a warrior can match that without batting an eyelid.
Besides, you've said it yourself - you frontload all your skills into an initial chain, then waitin on recharges. That is the definition of a spike. The difference is, ibreak's build frontloads more damage alongside DW, as well as minor shutdown, and can feasibly get kills. I'm sorry to come off as rude, but you are being ignorant. Warriors do not do 48 sustained dps. During a spike they do, spamming a skill every attack, with an IAS up, they might climb as high as 60. This build is at 133 during a spike. In the meantime, it's simply dealing more damage than the warrior, and maintaining it forever, unlike the vapor blade. I'm sorry, but shatterstone/vaporblade is where this started out. I improved on it.
And by the way, this could apply a deep wound if the team didn't have another source too o.0.
moko
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12+3+1 water magic
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I don't see Augury, so that doesn't count. So you're implying without Augury, you're doing 495 damage.|
2. Shatterstone {Elite} (Water 16)
second mistake. your build, is a spike, and not a pressure build. if you think that shatterstone at it's two cast is a pressure skill, you are wrong. but this is not really connected to the build. i actually DO like the build. how would the energy be if you dropped the sup water? if this is for AB, i would personally throw in augury, just to finish all targets. aura of resto is already a terrible skill, i would change that for your utility slot and take augury last, or get a rez etc etc bla bla. i really just dont like how much this equals a sin. it *could* be fragile. the spike takes too long. thanks for the build though, i'll make sure to test it, always good to play something new. :P <-- shatterstone fan anyways. 
Stormlord Alex
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Originally Posted by Another Child
I'm sorry to come off as rude, but you are being ignorant. Warriors do not do 48 sustained dps.
I don't mean to be rude, but that is ignorant.
A quick test, ran out to the damage dude - 14 Axe mastery, Frenzy, Penetrating Chop (a terribaed attack) and Executioner's Strike (a decent attack) and overall (... letting Frenzy slip a couple of times  ) I got 49 dps.With a bad build. Ok? Another Child
OK. The whole chain from start to finish including aftercast takes 8.25 seconds to cast. It recharges in 11 seconds. The energy management is sufficient to spam it forever. That's not a spike, can we please stop judging the whole build as though it was trying to be shatterstone/vaporblade?
If you don't like the superior rune it's not a problem. I'm not having any trouble with 515 health, but 580 is obviously better. Energy won't be a problem with a minor, the sup is just for damage, nothing else changes from 14 to 16. Aura of restoration isn't terrible on a spammer. As I said, it's worth 3 pips of health regen. 1 cycle = 60 health. But yes, there's definitely room for a better way to help your monks, there just isn't a whole lot of room attribute wise. Blurred vision is likely your best option. Another Child
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
I don't mean to be rude, but that is ignorant.
A quick test, ran out to the damage dude - 14 Axe mastery, Frenzy, Penetrating Chop (a terribaed attack) and Executioner's Strike (a decent attack) and overall (... letting Frenzy slip a couple of times ) I got 49 dps.With a bad build. Ok? Because perma frenzy on a target that never blocks or kites is representative of warrior sustained dps. As I said, a warrior might get up to 60 dps during a spike, when this build is at 133.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Another Child
Because perma frenzy on a target that never blocks or kites is representative of warrior sustained dps. As I said, a warrior might get up to 60 dps during a spike, when this build is at 133.
Oh, and Prot Spirit doesn't nullify your damage?
Please, don't bring counters into this, caster damage is stupidly easy to defend against. Another Child
I'm done arguing, I'm pretty sure you are just arguing for the sake of it now. We both know which has more counters, and what kind of frequency they can be used at. Face the facts, without an IAS active, warrior dps is about 25-30 on an unprotected and immobile target. This is higher.
Warriors bring other advantages, but don't say 48 dps is low, especially not on a midline character who needs very little support to deal his damage and brings minor utility, with the freedom in skill slots, energy management, and time management, to add more utility. You don't like the build, fine. Others have seen it and will try it.
LightningHell
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Originally Posted by Another Child
Because perma frenzy on a target that never blocks or kites is representative of warrior sustained dps. As I said, a warrior might get up to 60 dps during a spike, when this build is at 133.
What kind of warriors do you play with?
1) Spikes aren't calculated by DPS. 2) A Warrior does about 260, DW inclusive, on a "spike" that takes about 2.8 seconds. Not counting the first attack activation time, that's about 1.9 seconds. How does that equate 60 DPS? 3) ...How did you get 133 DPS? 4) Why the hell are we talking about counters? Everything has a counter. Another Child
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Originally Posted by LightningHell
What kind of warriors do you play with?
1) Spikes aren't calculated by DPS. 2) A Warrior does about 260, DW inclusive, on a "spike" that takes about 2.8 seconds. Not counting the first attack activation time, that's about 1.9 seconds. How does that equate 60 DPS? 3) ...How did you get 133 DPS? 4) Why the hell are we talking about counters? Everything has a counter. If I add augury I do 495 in the same span of time. I don't add augury because other classes bring better deep wounds.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Another Child
Face the facts, without an IAS active, warrior dps is about 25-30 on an unprotected and immobile target. This is higher.
Wow, a character using his entire skillbar can do more damage than a warrior using no skills at all?
Never would've guessed that. /slowclap Another Child
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Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
Wow, a character using his entire skillbar can do more damage than a warrior using no skills at all?
Never would've guessed that. /slowclap Oh I thought you used executioners. No, without any skills, warrior dps is about 20. Which is more than a caster not using skills. Never would've guessed that.
LightningHell
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Originally Posted by Another Child
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Explain. You have 105 (0 seconds)+53 (1 second)+104 (1 second)+44 (1 second)+Burning for 4 seconds (42/3, or 56/4) (DPS over time). That equals 350 damage over 3 seconds, or 364 over 4. Hardly the 495 you said.
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Oh, so casting Diversion somehow makes my Spirit Bond get disabled.|
Oh I thought you used executioners. No, without any skills, warrior dps is about 20. Which is more than a caster not using skills. Never would've guessed that.
You joke. An Axe warrior's DPS with an IAS on is 40, with a superior rune. Granted, this is a bit risky, but then you're a caster who's running a sup rune.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Another Child
Oh I thought you used executioners. No, without any skills, warrior dps is about 20. Which is more than a caster not using skills. Never would've guessed that.
And using only 3 skills - one of them really quite bad - my dps was higher than your entire build.
... oki? Another Child
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Originally Posted by LightningHell
Explain. You have 105 (0 seconds)+53 (1 second)+104 (1 second)+44 (1 second)+Burning for 4 seconds (42/3, or 56/4) (DPS over time). That equals 350 damage over 3 seconds, or 364 over 4. Hardly the 495 you said. Note that using a Superior, you'll probably need more saving than the Warrior, while the Warrior is still draining opponent resources. While this Elementalist deals more "damage" to the opponent, the rest of the damage that would be dealt by a Warrior is mitigated by other factors - shutdown, kiting, whatnot. All this requires active effort by the opposition. In contrast, the Elementalist isn't really much of a threat in an organized environment, and although it's harder to defend against, nobody really cares. You joke. An Axe warrior's DPS with an IAS on is 40, with a superior rune. Granted, this is a bit risky, but then you're a caster who's running a sup rune. Yup fixed that, counted DW 2x However, as stated, this deals more damage than a warrior, period. If the warrior has a permanent IAS, he can just keep up against targets who stand still and don't block. You realize are trying to argue that because it takes effort for someone to nullify your damage, that is somehow better and more threatening than damage that is more difficult to nullify, because they don't have to expend the effort, they just get to sit there and take it? Another Child
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Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
And using only 3 skills - one of them really quite bad - my dps was higher than your entire build.
... oki? 3 skills compared to 5? Again, the damage is easily countered by say, a moving target, or say, getting hit with frenzy on. I know it's hard for you to understand that other classes can apply sustained pressure, but well, facts are there.
Stormlord Alex
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Originally Posted by Another Child
3 skills compared to 5? Again, the damage is easily countered by say, a moving target, or say, getting hit with frenzy on. I know it's hard for you to understand that other classes can apply sustained pressure, but well, facts are there.
The fact is, though, caster pressure is laughable. It's easily countered, too.
Another Child
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Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
The fact is, though, caster pressure is laughable. It's easily countered, too.
Yet it's higher than warrior pressure on this build, and less easily countered than warrior pressure, and does in fact come with minor utility unlike a warrior who takes about 6 skill slots from his team plus his own 8 just to be able to apply that pressure. Warriors are good pressure, so is this. If you weren't so blinkered you might actually try to assess what it is capable of, rather than 'oh shatterstone, bad spike, let's flame'.
LightningHell
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Originally Posted by Another Child
However you are trying to argue that because it takes effort for someone to nullify your damage, that is somehow better and more threatening than damage that is more difficult to nullify.
Okay.
Let's see - Your build has a literal 8 second recharge on it. I'm being generous here, as this is counting spamming on recharge, which is probably something that's not very achievable - finding opportune targets is difficult, especially for your build which does not kill a person from at least 85%, and that if you're spamming on recharge you're incredibly predictable. It does 364 damage per 8 seconds, which is 45.5 DPS. As a spike, it's not very threatening, due to it not being able to kill a character alone, and that a 3 second spike is way too easy to prot against. Hence, opponents in organized teams are going to ignore it. It has basically no threat. Besides, it's not like a Diversion or DShot won't throw your whole thing off, and your character is very inflexible, but let's put that aside for now. The Warrior, however, is a constant threat. As long as he's there, they need to shut him down, or they're going to get pummelled. So he might deal, say 20 DPS, but the opponent is expending resources and time to prevent the Warrior from achieving his natural 40 DPS. The Warrior also has a spike outside of his main DPS engine, which requires more protting and defending against. A Warrior can also bring disruption and other miscellaneous utility. That 40 DPS is not counting skills.
Stormlord Alex
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Originally Posted by Another Child
Yet it's higher than warrior pressure on this build
Correct me if I'm wrong... but isn't 49 a bigger number than 48?
Another Child
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Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
Correct me if I'm wrong... but isn't 49 a bigger number than 48?
You're saying you permafrenzy?
LightningHell
Actually, the numbers are higher than I thought. You're correct in that it's 455/469 damage in 3/4 seconds (which still makes me wonder where did 495 come from). However, my point still stands.
Edit: People frenzy when one is allowed to. Just like how an elementalist would cast spells as one would allow. Surely you're not going to cast your chain when you're getting hit by a tree?
Stormlord Alex
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Originally Posted by Another Child
You're saying you permafrenzy?
And you're saying you never get camped by a ranger or mes?
You're trying to compare the crappy 3-skill warrior when he's not able to perma-frenzy, or is getting kited, blinded, etc. Might I ask... How much damage do you do if any mesmer worth his salt is kicking around, or if the enemy happens to have RoF/PS? 
LightningHell
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Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
Might I ask... How much damage do you do if any mesmer worth his salt is kicking around, or if the enemy happens to have RoF/PS?
This partly ties into the problem of threat. Without a single skill (via Diversion, DShot, Magebane, whatnot), your character is virtually useless. A Warrior still provides quite a positional, if not anything else, threat, even when hexed or whatnot.
Another Child
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Originally Posted by LightningHell
Okay.
Let's see - Your build has a literal 8 second recharge on it. I'm being generous here, as this is counting spamming on recharge, which is probably something that's not very achievable - finding opportune targets is difficult, especially for your build which does not kill a person from at least 85%, and that if you're spamming on recharge you're incredibly predictable. It does 364 damage per 8 seconds, which is 45.5 DPS. As a spike, it's not very threatening, due to it not being able to kill a character alone, and that a 3 second spike is way too easy to prot against. Hence, opponents in organized teams are going to ignore it. It has basically no threat. Besides, it's not like a Diversion or DShot won't throw your whole thing off, and your character is very inflexible, but let's put that aside for now. The Warrior, however, is a constant threat. As long as he's there, they need to shut him down, or they're going to get pummelled. So he might deal, say 20 DPS, but the opponent is expending resources and time to prevent the Warrior from achieving his natural 40 DPS. The Warrior also has a spike outside of his main DPS engine, which requires more protting and defending against. A Warrior can also bring disruption and other miscellaneous utility. That 40 DPS is not counting skills. As I said, warriors bring other goodies. However the damage is easily nullified. If someone wants to nullify this guys damage, they are going to be using abilities that they don't want recharging when a spike is actually called.
Pyro maniac
Just face it, warriors are better in damage
if you want to make a water ele, the strenght comes in shutting down with either blurred vision (block) or slow-down (kite) Shatterstone is just there to help with a spike, but don't pump your bar with damage spells. it isn't needed, warriors are better at it. Another Child
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Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
And you're saying you never get camped by a ranger or mes?
You're trying to compare the crappy 3-skill warrior when he's not able to perma-frenzy, or is getting kited, blinded, etc. Might I ask... How much damage do you do if any mesmer worth his salt is kicking around, or if the enemy happens to have RoF/PS?
How much damage do you do when you are hexed out the rear, snared, and blinded? What's the difference?
Another Child
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Originally Posted by Pyro maniac
Just face it, warriors are better in damage
if you want to make a water ele, the strenght comes in shutting down with either blurred vision (block) or slow-down (kite) Shatterstone is just there to help with a spike, but don't pump your bar with damage spells. it isn't needed, warriors are better at it. I never had someone yell 'WOW WTF' when I was playing my warrior or thumper. I guess that makes me biased.
LightningHell
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Originally Posted by Another Child
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My bad.
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If you are hexed out the rear and snared, as I said, you still provide quite a positional threat.
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If a Mesmer that can count casts a Diversion on you, you're basically losing your spike for the 6 seconds additional, or you're going to lose your spike for the next minute. A Ranger could interrupt that with one hand down his pants, especially with such a long chain.|
I never had someone yell 'WOW WTF' when I was playing my warrior or thumper. I guess that makes me biased.
I certainly wouldn't yell "WOW WTF" at your build.
Another Child
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Originally Posted by LightningHell
The difference is that the opposition has to maintain it, and remember that Blind is easily removed in skirmish situations via Mending Touch, if there is no backline support.
How is maintaining a hex any different from maintaining a shutdown? They're both fire and forget. The hex can be removed, while the shutdown needs to hit something critical, they both have their drawbacks.
Another Child
Anyway, this thread appears to be full of reactionaries who would rather stick with what they think is correct than actually assess what a build is capable of. I had heard this about guru so I can't say I wasn't warned.
LightningHell
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Originally Posted by Another Child
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While blind needs to be maintained, hexes don't need to be maintained as much but still do?
And if you don't understand that a Warrior is a much more flexible threat than any caster will be, you apparently need to learn more, since that is one of the basics of GW PvP strategy/tactics - one might even classify it as basic game mechanics.
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Anyway, this thread appears to be full of reactionaries who would rather stick with what they think is correct than actually assess what a build is capable of. I had heard this about guru so I can't say I wasn't warned.
I'm sorry, but we opt for effectiveness. If it's not fully effective, we will point it out. If you can't accept criticism, get the hell out of here.
Stormlord Alex
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Originally Posted by LightningHell
And if you don't understand that a Warrior is a much more flexible threat than any caster will be, you apparently need to learn more, since that is one of the basics of GW PvP strategy/tactics - one might even classify it as basic game mechanics.
QFT.
Warrior > your face. As it always was, is and ever shall be. |