PvE too easy? Try "no storage, only PUG" challenge!
MirageMaster
i see alot of ppl here with nothing to do in their lives lol
Marverick
PuGs never listen so I'll be damned if you can convince them to do things your way, AKA succeed.
And I'm perfectly fine exercising my social skills in real life, thank you. If you play video games for the purpose of social interaction, then you need to get a life.
KThxBye
And I'm perfectly fine exercising my social skills in real life, thank you. If you play video games for the purpose of social interaction, then you need to get a life.
KThxBye
SpeedyKQ
I love the idea, but in practice, it just couldn't be done. Too few players pug anymore, and the player base is too spread out.
Are you really going to find a full group of humans to do some primary quest out in the Maguuma Jungle? Even if you find two or three intrepid souls, are you going to be able to convince them to leave Alesia or Dunkoro behind?
I have 8 characters, and with each chapter I've chosen one character to pug all of the missions (or main quests in GWEN). No big deal if the party fills in with hero/hench, as long as I'm not going it alone. It has been fun - definitely more of a challenge, but a good change of pace. Normal mode is pretty forgiving.
Are you really going to find a full group of humans to do some primary quest out in the Maguuma Jungle? Even if you find two or three intrepid souls, are you going to be able to convince them to leave Alesia or Dunkoro behind?
I have 8 characters, and with each chapter I've chosen one character to pug all of the missions (or main quests in GWEN). No big deal if the party fills in with hero/hench, as long as I'm not going it alone. It has been fun - definitely more of a challenge, but a good change of pace. Normal mode is pretty forgiving.
Azrayel
Well I for one love being in Pug groups. I usually do missions that are harder with guildies but once they are done I have no issues going back to earlier mission such as THK and joining a Pug group to go through it again. It's not just the helping of noob players (most aren't noobs, they are just going thru again with new chars.) It is a great way to meet new peeps and learn new strategies with how some use their char.
As far as the challenge goes, I see no problem with giving it a shot. If thats how you want to play your game than thats fine with me, Hell I wouldn't mind joining an all no storage and collector armor group/guild. I have my uber leet ele and assassin already <--that was a joke
On a side note, some favorite things I do for a challenge is stand in LA during in game events and answer all the new peeps questions without being sarcastic. My other favorite is to get into pug groups and go with whatever their group consists of whether there is 3 ele's but no monks or I'm the only upfront damage dealer as my sin (I love my sin) and goin thru the mission. After you make it thru a few of those you really get that sense of accomplishment back.
As far as the challenge goes, I see no problem with giving it a shot. If thats how you want to play your game than thats fine with me, Hell I wouldn't mind joining an all no storage and collector armor group/guild. I have my uber leet ele and assassin already <--that was a joke
On a side note, some favorite things I do for a challenge is stand in LA during in game events and answer all the new peeps questions without being sarcastic. My other favorite is to get into pug groups and go with whatever their group consists of whether there is 3 ele's but no monks or I'm the only upfront damage dealer as my sin (I love my sin) and goin thru the mission. After you make it thru a few of those you really get that sense of accomplishment back.
Leslie
Not a fan of PuG's. It can be really irritating to get a wammo who doesn't know how to tank or aggro, uses Frenzy as his blocking stance and has 12 healing prayers and 3 sword mastery. It can also be very frustrating to have immature people join, who swear incessively and use CAPS LOCK TO COMPLAIN ABOUT HOW MUCH YOU NOOBS SUCK etc. Also, it can be irritating to have people randomly go AFK in the middle leaving the rest of the party to finish the mission while they "brb a sec".
Those negative views of pugging aside, it can be fun, and for some people it is. That's why I like the way that we get to have a choice; players or heroes. Just occasionally you can have a bad experience (one of the above most likely) with them and it can sour you from pugging indefinitely.
Those negative views of pugging aside, it can be fun, and for some people it is. That's why I like the way that we get to have a choice; players or heroes. Just occasionally you can have a bad experience (one of the above most likely) with them and it can sour you from pugging indefinitely.
leprekan
[quote=SpeedyKQ]I love the idea, but in practice, it just couldn't be done. Too few players pug anymore, and the player base is too spread out.
Are you really going to find a full group of humans to do some primary quest out in the Maguuma Jungle? Even if you find two or three intrepid souls, are you going to be able to convince them to leave Alesia or Dunkoro behind?quote]
Exactly.
Good example was when I needed .3% of Jade Quarry to finish Legendary Cartographer. Took me 2 days and my friends list to finally be able to finish the title. If there are no people in an outpost there are NO people there. I don't see standing in an outpost for days looking for humans to show up as a challenge.
On topic of Jade Quarry .. Anet please make it explorable for the next poor bastard that comes along and needs it for legendary cartographer. That was ridiculous having to find enough kurzick AND luxon friends to be able to map it for a title.
Are you really going to find a full group of humans to do some primary quest out in the Maguuma Jungle? Even if you find two or three intrepid souls, are you going to be able to convince them to leave Alesia or Dunkoro behind?quote]
Exactly.
Good example was when I needed .3% of Jade Quarry to finish Legendary Cartographer. Took me 2 days and my friends list to finally be able to finish the title. If there are no people in an outpost there are NO people there. I don't see standing in an outpost for days looking for humans to show up as a challenge.
On topic of Jade Quarry .. Anet please make it explorable for the next poor bastard that comes along and needs it for legendary cartographer. That was ridiculous having to find enough kurzick AND luxon friends to be able to map it for a title.
Torqual
I think this is a great idea, and I'd had the same plan to PUG only myself. Doing without storage and using crafter-only armour is even better.
I plan to roll a new character and start this in the coming few days/weeks. Hopefully I will be able to recruit some people for my guild along the way.
What I won't be saying is "OMG n00b" and repeat clicking on the mini map. I just intend to be quietly effective and speak when spoken to.
At the very least it's an excuse to go back to pre-sear, anyway. Catacombs FTW.
It's a shame that some people slam this idea. No-one is saying this is for everyone. I think that the OP is just highlighting that a lot of us are moaning about H/H killing the game. Many of us are soloing in dead guilds. God knows what the game is like for new players right now. So...this is a way to help out, meet people and have some fun. If you go into it with the assumption that you'll meet mainly bad players but hey, that's not a problem, then it's a good thing.
It sure as hell offers a refreshing alternative to ultra-hard areas, dumb AI, control-freakery and booting people because of one skill on their bar. These are some of the things a lot of us hate about the game now. Many of us enjoyed the game how it was 2 years ago and the point is, with the right people and the right attitude, it could be like that.
Anyone else who is serious about doing this, send me a PM and we can exchange IGN's and maybe work together on some of this.
I plan to roll a new character and start this in the coming few days/weeks. Hopefully I will be able to recruit some people for my guild along the way.
What I won't be saying is "OMG n00b" and repeat clicking on the mini map. I just intend to be quietly effective and speak when spoken to.
At the very least it's an excuse to go back to pre-sear, anyway. Catacombs FTW.
It's a shame that some people slam this idea. No-one is saying this is for everyone. I think that the OP is just highlighting that a lot of us are moaning about H/H killing the game. Many of us are soloing in dead guilds. God knows what the game is like for new players right now. So...this is a way to help out, meet people and have some fun. If you go into it with the assumption that you'll meet mainly bad players but hey, that's not a problem, then it's a good thing.
It sure as hell offers a refreshing alternative to ultra-hard areas, dumb AI, control-freakery and booting people because of one skill on their bar. These are some of the things a lot of us hate about the game now. Many of us enjoyed the game how it was 2 years ago and the point is, with the right people and the right attitude, it could be like that.
Anyone else who is serious about doing this, send me a PM and we can exchange IGN's and maybe work together on some of this.
legacyofkain85
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Originally Posted by aapo
Since we've already completed the game on normal mode with heroes and henchmen playing with our toes, I propose a challenge for you veterans to get a fresh start for the game.
Rules are simple, but the mentality you must have might be a more difficult thing to adapt to. It's similar to Diablo II's "ironman" mode. First things first: make a new character for your account, since this can't be done with existing characters. Aim of the game is to finish the campaign (I recommend Prophecies) under these rules: 1. Don't use storage. Ever. That means no transferring items, materials and money from your level 20 characters. Pick up stuff from the ground and sell them. If you're really hardcore, don't use crafters either but instead wear collector armor and weapons. 2. Don't use heroes or henchmen. At all. Make a human party for every mission and quest (this will be the real challenge) and be on the lookout for opportunities to level up your character. If you can't get Monks, adjust builds to have self-healing capability. Do your best to help and guide your team to be as effective as possible. Basic philosophy of this challenge is to get away from the attitude of being compelled to min-max everything and return to state when gaming was pure fun of exploring the world and "being a noob". This would also be good thing to try for you ANET people to realize just what kind of game you've made. |
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Originally Posted by Isison
why don't you try a "you farm and give me all gold" challenge?
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Yichi
quick I have an olympic qualifying event comming up for the 100m dash. I know, let me cut off my foot.....
Thats about how much sense this makes.
Thats about how much sense this makes.
Stolen Souls
"Try "no storage...."
ooh, interesting. Seems like it could be fun. ^^
"....only PUG" challenge!"
Well, so much for fun. x.x
Uhm...person under me...edit button is ftw...
ooh, interesting. Seems like it could be fun. ^^
"....only PUG" challenge!"
Well, so much for fun. x.x
Uhm...person under me...edit button is ftw...
legacyofkain85
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Originally Posted by Thibor
I like the idea. That is the closest you will ever get to the feeling you got playing your very first character. No lvl 1 using weps your lvl 20 had in storage. Remember how it felt getting your first max dmg weapon drop. I do. I still pug whenever I get the chance and enjoy it.
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Originally Posted by Pleikki
I know how we could do it fun and hard! Complete game without using any skills!
just dmg from weaps :P |
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Originally Posted by Zeek Aran
Please explain relevancy.
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Diddy bow
Would've been fun back when there was acctually people to group with...
legacyofkain85
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Originally Posted by Sha Noran
PvE too easy? Try playing PvP instead of gimping yourself just for the sake of additional frustration. Honestly, it's going to be a slow frustrating grind to do as the OP suggested, so how about all of you PvE kids crawl out of your caves and try some IWAY.
Seriously, I hate when people suggest playing the game badly on purpose. Minesweeper isn't really hard, but that doesn't mean I'm going to click random boxes just to make it harder to win. |
elektra_lucia
This reminds me of sex with gf - bondage in particular.
-Without good stuff too
-Will people at hells precipe be spamming 'wtb orgasm'?
-Without good stuff too
-Will people at hells precipe be spamming 'wtb orgasm'?
bhavv
I dont get the point of this.
1) You finished the game on NM with H/H and want to make it hader?
Solution - Turn on hard mode?
2) You think its a challenge creating a new unfunded character and making him level 20? Thats just a joke. Non max Armor is cheaper now then it used to be before, so you would be able to save more for your basic max armor. And max weapons are available for 5k at the weaponsmith, or you can just farm a boss for his green
Where do all these epic fail threads come from anyway?
1) You finished the game on NM with H/H and want to make it hader?
Solution - Turn on hard mode?
2) You think its a challenge creating a new unfunded character and making him level 20? Thats just a joke. Non max Armor is cheaper now then it used to be before, so you would be able to save more for your basic max armor. And max weapons are available for 5k at the weaponsmith, or you can just farm a boss for his green
Where do all these epic fail threads come from anyway?
Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by elektra_lucia
This reminds me of sex with gf - bondage in particular.
-Without good stuff too -Will people at hells precipe be spamming 'wtb orgasm'? |
Nevin
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
That's completely and utterly pointless.
That doesn't make PvE more difficult; it makes PvE masochistic. |
.... Did I not understand what you meant?
I tried this once, matter of fact, I did it for every new character before I was rich. To play like this you must have great leadership skills, because you definitely can't rely on pugs to follow through. I remember those hard times before heroes...
Party (1/8): Looking for Tank, Nuker, Two Healers, MM, SS, 1 other.
Zena Starlight
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Originally Posted by aapo
2. Don't use heroes or henchmen. At all. Make a human party for every mission and quest (this will be the real challenge) and be on the lookout for opportunities to level up your character. If you can't get Monks, adjust builds to have self-healing capability. Do your best to help and guide your team to be as effective as possible. |
Olim Chill
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Originally Posted by bhavv
I dont get the point of this.
1) You finished the game on NM with H/H and want to make it hader? Solution - Turn on hard mode? |
aapo
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Originally Posted by SpeedyKQ
Are you really going to find a full group of humans to do some primary quest out in the Maguuma Jungle? Even if you find two or three intrepid souls, are you going to be able to convince them to leave Alesia or Dunkoro behind?
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You don't need to:
- Finish bonuses and every quest
- Min-max everything. Making Necro with some Monk skills should be a valid choice for utilizing Soul Reaping, since PvE *is* easy. Every profession gets self-healing capability and party support skills.
- Go in with full 8 people. Think getting additional people as a bonus to ease the challenge. If the hardest areas of the game can be done with 2-people farming build, standard missions shouldn't require much else.
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Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw
Except it's not a challenge, it's an exercise in masochism.
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Easiest
Easy
Normal
Hard
Hardest
You'd pick the easiest level because "liking challenging game is masochism". And the easiest level is such that you can go AFK for five minutes, come back and find out that the enemy hasn't made a single attack against your base. Then you research every upgrade on your own pace, make 40 mammoth tanks / pimped up paladins and go mow down the base of your sorry opponent who is just sitting there and waiting to be destroyed. And afterwards you feel like you've achieved something? It's a pretty good analogy to what Guild Wars is like with H/H team.
Zeek Aran
Didn't Witte already solo all of Tyria?
Burst Cancel
Here's my problem with this philosophy: GW is a team game. Therefore, no matter how good *you* are, it won't make a significant difference if every other person in your party is a shit-munching moron (read: average player). Therefore, it's not actually a greater challenge so much as a complete waste of time.
This sort of exercise is simply playing Russian Roulette with your time - with all barrels loaded.
This sort of exercise is simply playing Russian Roulette with your time - with all barrels loaded.
ProgTes
What the heck, there's 4 pages of flame. This guy actually came up with an interesting idea (prolly done before, doesn't matter though) and he gets flamed and QQ-ed all over. You don't like it, you don't do it. If I was really bored in GW I might even try it, it could be fun if you're looking for a challenge. And we want challenges right? Oh wait, I'm wrong there. We just want our gear & titles and we want it as cheap and quick as possible with as little effort as possible. THAT is what the average GW-er nowadays wants. If you're one of those, then there's no need to flame him all over - just GTFO.
high priestess anya
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
That's completely and utterly pointless.
That doesn't make PvE more difficult; it makes PvE masochistic. |
bam23
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Originally Posted by aapo
You don't need to:
- Min-max everything. Making Necro with some Monk skills should be a valid choice for utilizing Soul Reaping, since PvE *is* easy. Every profession gets self-healing capability and party support skills. - Go in with full 8 people. Think getting additional people as a bonus to ease the challenge. If the hardest areas of the game can be done with 2-people farming build, standard missions shouldn't require much else. |
Vinraith
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
It's not like I H/H because "i hate dem noobs", I just don't have the time to set up for a party.
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Vinraith
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Originally Posted by aapo
- Min-max everything. Making Necro with some Monk skills should be a valid choice for utilizing Soul Reaping, since PvE *is* easy. Every profession gets self-healing capability and party support skills.
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Oh, and I profoundly disagree with literally everything else you said.
Tyla
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Originally Posted by Nevin
Party (1/8): Looking for Tank, Nuker, Two Healers, MM, SS, 1 other.
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rangers and mesmers being flamed all over again...
bhavv
Did I read correctly that someone actually thinks the OP's idea is more challenging them title hunting?
Yes playing NM with an unfunded character and only pugs is harder then then getting legendary guardian and vanquisher...
Actually I intended to put /sarcasm here, but come to think of it pugging NM probably is harder then H/H'ing HM. That isnt because the game is harder, its because pugs are shit.
Yes playing NM with an unfunded character and only pugs is harder then then getting legendary guardian and vanquisher...
Actually I intended to put /sarcasm here, but come to think of it pugging NM probably is harder then H/H'ing HM. That isnt because the game is harder, its because pugs are shit.
Tyla
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Originally Posted by bhavv
Yes playing NM with an unfunded character and only pugs is harder then then getting legendary guardian and vanquisher...
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This is exactly the way people with only proph/factions started when there were no heroes, first char, and once again the list goes on and on.
Also i will like to add people who played mes/ranger were flamed for seemingly being junk.
And another thing: Proph armour buildups are kinda bad in my opinion.
Redfeather1975
Pugs are challenging because they are not auto-pilot.
It takes work to be patient.
It takes work to get everyone prepared.
It takes work to co-ordinate.
It takes work to be supportive in order to help those which are not very good at the game, instead of criticizing them.
It takes work to be willing to go back, adapt and try again.
To many Homer Simpsons here with the belief "...you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try." And as a result everyone is drifting away and isolating themselves, and the playerbase as a whole is getting no better.
It takes work to be patient.
It takes work to get everyone prepared.
It takes work to co-ordinate.
It takes work to be supportive in order to help those which are not very good at the game, instead of criticizing them.
It takes work to be willing to go back, adapt and try again.
To many Homer Simpsons here with the belief "...you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try." And as a result everyone is drifting away and isolating themselves, and the playerbase as a whole is getting no better.
You can't see me
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Originally Posted by Redfeather1975
Pugs are challenging because they are not auto-pilot.
It takes work to be patient. It takes work to get everyone prepared. It takes work to co-ordinate. It takes work to be supportive in order to help those which are not very good at the game, instead of criticizing them. It takes work to be willing to go back, adapt and try again. To many Homer Simpsons here with the belief "...you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try." |
You're right, but the fact that you're right doesn't help the OP with his point. It takes a lot of work to do something with a PuG. The trouble is, it's just redundant and boring and doesn't make it any more challenging.
By the way people, Challenging is not a Synonym of "Time Consuming" or "Repetative".
Redfeather1975
Then I think some people have the words challenging and rewarding mixed up in their brains.
Tyla
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Originally Posted by Redfeather1975
Pugs are challenging because they are not auto-pilot.
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| It takes work to be patient. |
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| It takes work to get everyone prepared. |
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| It takes work to co-ordinate. |
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| It takes work to be supportive in order to help those which are not very good at the game, instead of criticizing them. |
they listen out better i've foundQuote:
| It takes work to be willing to go back, adapt and try again. |
Quote:
| To many Homer Simpsons here with the belief "...you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try." |
You can't see me
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Originally Posted by Redfeather1975
Then I think some people have the words challenging and rewarding mixed up in their brains.
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I won't argue with that. No, this idea isn't rewarding. It just basically cuts off all shortcuts. It challenges your patience, which I have none of thanks to these forums. I don't see how this actually challenges your gameplay ability.
Go into Mission.
Ask for PuG.
Organize PuG.
Fail with PuG.
Repeat Steps 1-4 three times.
Find a Good PuG.
Get to next mission.
Merchant all drops.
Repeat.
Avarre
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Originally Posted by aapo
- I really don't understand comments like this. Have you ever played a real-time-strategy game where you're given five choices for difficulty level?
Easiest Easy Normal Hard Hardest You'd pick the easiest level because "liking challenging game is masochism". And the easiest level is such that you can go AFK for five minutes, come back and find out that the enemy hasn't made a single attack against your base. Then you research every upgrade on your own pace, make 40 mammoth tanks / pimped up paladins and go mow down the base of your sorry opponent who is just sitting there and waiting to be destroyed. And afterwards you feel like you've achieved something? It's a pretty good analogy to what Guild Wars is like with H/H team. |
A long-time player who tries this has to take into account that a great deal of their time is no longer playing, but rather gathering things for collector items, or forming teams. That's a warning sign right there; you're working more before you can even play the challenging and interesting part of the game.
Then, you take into account that most of the player's mission failures won't be because of the player, but rather group failures from PuGs (assuming there are even people available). So now you've got someone who has to sit around or grind to be able to continue the game how they enjoy it, and then they might have to do one thing over and over through no fault or failing of their own. It's not impossible to bring order to a PuG, but really, I don't play games to make children pay attention and work together.
As someone said earlier, you're not going to have the 'new' feeling of going through the game, and you're not going to be excited by new discoveries this time. I'd find this a really slow, dull slog to go through everything again without even being able to do things at my own pace.
Redfeather1975
I guess Guild Wars PvE quickly leans to rewards becoming the only motivation incentive to play and not the actual game play.
I've played games that were fun simply through playing and not getting any kind of reward. Those games were fun to play with PUGs. I guess I can see how GW game play can get boring after seeing and doing quite a lot, then the journey feels like a waste of time and the destination is more important.
I've played games that were fun simply through playing and not getting any kind of reward. Those games were fun to play with PUGs. I guess I can see how GW game play can get boring after seeing and doing quite a lot, then the journey feels like a waste of time and the destination is more important.
Tyla
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Originally Posted by Redfeather1975
I can see how GW game play can get so boring that the journey feels like a waste of time and the destination is more important.
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Redfeather1975
Then guild wars needs gameplay like Unreal Tournament! 
I like Unreal Tournament still.
I wonder if every reward was removed from GW if people would even bother playing it for fun for more than a week, just to experience the game play.
I wasn't being serious that I want Guild Wars to be an fps. But it might be cool if the game play were such that people would still want to log in years later just to run around and fight. Pew, pew pew.
I like Unreal Tournament still.
I wonder if every reward was removed from GW if people would even bother playing it for fun for more than a week, just to experience the game play.
I wasn't being serious that I want Guild Wars to be an fps. But it might be cool if the game play were such that people would still want to log in years later just to run around and fight. Pew, pew pew.
Holly Herro
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Originally Posted by Redfeather1975
Then guild wars needs gameplay like Unreal Tournament!
I like Unreal Tournament still. I wonder if every reward was removed from GW if people would even bother playing it for fun for more than a week, just to experience the game play. I wasn't being serious that I want Guild Wars to be an fps. But it might be cool if the game play were such that people would still want to log in years later just to run around and fight. Pew, pew pew. |