Separate who you end up fighting in HA based on rank.
Why? So new people can get into higher levels of PvP reasonably.
As it stands, there are reasons that new people don't get put into higher rank groups, because they generally don't know what they are doing quite as well.
However, they can only get higher rank by winning in battle, which 90% of the time can only be done by getting into a higher rank group or running one of the random x-WAY builds that crop up every now and then. Practicing "normal" builds to get rank also doesn't work very well, as the only real place to practice is in HA itself, where they have a very high chance of being steamrolled before they know what is going on, being sent back to the outpost with no Faction, Fame, or actual experience in the gameplay mode. After doing the same thing several times, many people give up and leave. Sure, dedicated people and people with good guilds can get through it, but for the average person, this paradox sucks.
Separate the HA battle sets by rank, so that new people practice against new people, so that rank discrimination doesn't seriously hinder ability to play, and so that people can get experience in higher level PvP.
The separation could work like this:
Rank 0-2
Rank 3-5
Rank 6-8
Rank 9-11
Rank 12+
How exactly groups would figure out their rank would probably be by average rank of all the players on the team. However, the group can choose to enter as a rank of any amount higher than their average if they so choose. Thus, new PvP-ers can join their rank 3-5 friends in HA without problems, or players who already GvG alot can start at a higher rank as opposed to fighting unchallenging people in lower ranks.
There may be some tweaking needed for the system, but I think it would help get people to make the transition from RA/AB/TA to HA/GvG better, which is something the game needs, in my opinion.
Tiered HA
Sir Tificate
Lawliet Kira
/signed
I dont think its fair that r1's go aginst r13's
high ranked ppl should get a fair match with ppl wwith the same rank
I dont think its fair that r1's go aginst r13's
high ranked ppl should get a fair match with ppl wwith the same rank
Div
Which means...there's going to be 20 minute waits for matches! Even without a tiered system, there is plenty of no opposing party. No need to make the wait worse. Plus, all it does is make it so people who get to r3 got it by beating randomways. That just makes player skill even worse.
Lady Raenef
Quote:
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Originally Posted by holymasamune
Which means...there's going to be 20 minute waits for matches! Even without a tiered system, there is plenty of no opposing party. No need to make the wait worse. Plus, all it does is make it so people who get to r3 got it by beating randomways. That just makes player skill even worse.
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noneedforclevernames
/notsigned
Although this would benefit me I actually think about the other people who were rank 3 beating the rank 9's to now be rank 10.
Although this would benefit me I actually think about the other people who were rank 3 beating the rank 9's to now be rank 10.
Diddy bow
I think the match waiting times would make this impossible, and what if you acctually wanted to group with a lower/higher ranked dude, is that even possible. If it is.
"LF low rank leader for faction/chest farm"
And if its not then your just runing HA for the sake of getting rid of rank discrim, people should just face the fact its here and here to stay...
"LF low rank leader for faction/chest farm"
And if its not then your just runing HA for the sake of getting rid of rank discrim, people should just face the fact its here and here to stay...
RotteN
ok, some obvious flaws :
1) waiting times : honestly, who's going to wait 30 minutes or so for a HA match ?
2) Hall of Heroes : who's going to fight in HoH ? one hall for every seperate tier ? that's just stupid.
if you're having trouble getting into groups, join a HA guild, problem solved ... if you have trouble winning, then try harder and improve ... it might sound odd, but losing a lot isn't exactly bad, as long as you know what made you lose and pay attention to it afterwards.
1) waiting times : honestly, who's going to wait 30 minutes or so for a HA match ?
2) Hall of Heroes : who's going to fight in HoH ? one hall for every seperate tier ? that's just stupid.
if you're having trouble getting into groups, join a HA guild, problem solved ... if you have trouble winning, then try harder and improve ... it might sound odd, but losing a lot isn't exactly bad, as long as you know what made you lose and pay attention to it afterwards.
You can't see me
/signed.
Matching skill level to skill level would be ftw.
Matching skill level to skill level would be ftw.
Malice Black
Won't work, won't happen.
Sir Tificate
Hmm... Complaint addressing time!
1. Wait times are going to be hell.
This one is a tough one, but ready your thinking caps a moment:
a. Promote HoH. Double faction? Talk about it more? Unique item skins from HoH chest? This is opening up a can of worms, but is an okay last resort.
b. Pair with different ranks when forced to do so. If the only enemy is one of a different rank, you fight them anyway. Otherwise, it works towards closest to your rank of group. It still isn't a perfect system for skill level matching, but it still works better than what we have now. A reasonable stopgap until someone comes up with a better idea.
c. Hope this change convinces a lot of new people to try HoH. No, it idn't a solution, but when all else fails...
2. Seeking different rank groups.
I mentioned earlier that the group's rank would be the average of all the individual member's ranks. So, it is possible to try and take lower rankers to farm, but you have to be able to do the farming with fewer and fewer people of higher rank that know what to do. Plus, as the higher ranks farm more and more, they need more people of low rank to get into lower rank sets of groups.
3. Who's in HoH?
Another issue to worry about. Thinking caps again.
a. Anyone. You get to HoH, you're not too shabby, so you the rank sets end, and you fight any rank group. HA as a whole is made better by the change, but HoH doesn't lose its luster.
b. Different HoHs for each rank set. Why not? Opens up its own problems, though.
c. Group choice. You get to HoH, your group votes to decide if it wants to enter the Hall of Heroes (any rank enters) or some replacement area, a Hall of Relative Heroes we'll say, one without as good of rewards. Ghostly Hero is the tie-breaker, and he wants to go to Hall of Heroes. This exacerbates the whole wait time problem, though, especially if you end up with an AFKer, which could be possible at lower rank sets.
4. Won't work, won't happen.
Can't really say much as you didn't say what exactly the problem was.
Feel free to add your own solutions and own problems to this idea.
1. Wait times are going to be hell.
This one is a tough one, but ready your thinking caps a moment:
a. Promote HoH. Double faction? Talk about it more? Unique item skins from HoH chest? This is opening up a can of worms, but is an okay last resort.
b. Pair with different ranks when forced to do so. If the only enemy is one of a different rank, you fight them anyway. Otherwise, it works towards closest to your rank of group. It still isn't a perfect system for skill level matching, but it still works better than what we have now. A reasonable stopgap until someone comes up with a better idea.
c. Hope this change convinces a lot of new people to try HoH. No, it idn't a solution, but when all else fails...
2. Seeking different rank groups.
I mentioned earlier that the group's rank would be the average of all the individual member's ranks. So, it is possible to try and take lower rankers to farm, but you have to be able to do the farming with fewer and fewer people of higher rank that know what to do. Plus, as the higher ranks farm more and more, they need more people of low rank to get into lower rank sets of groups.
3. Who's in HoH?
Another issue to worry about. Thinking caps again.
a. Anyone. You get to HoH, you're not too shabby, so you the rank sets end, and you fight any rank group. HA as a whole is made better by the change, but HoH doesn't lose its luster.
b. Different HoHs for each rank set. Why not? Opens up its own problems, though.
c. Group choice. You get to HoH, your group votes to decide if it wants to enter the Hall of Heroes (any rank enters) or some replacement area, a Hall of Relative Heroes we'll say, one without as good of rewards. Ghostly Hero is the tie-breaker, and he wants to go to Hall of Heroes. This exacerbates the whole wait time problem, though, especially if you end up with an AFKer, which could be possible at lower rank sets.
4. Won't work, won't happen.
Can't really say much as you didn't say what exactly the problem was.
Feel free to add your own solutions and own problems to this idea.
Sir Pandra Pierva
Meh nice idea and I kinda like it but it wont work besides waiting times, many times rank doesn't always = skill.
I have fought r5 groups that all they did was IWAY and kicked their asses
I have fought r5 groups that all they did was IWAY and kicked their asses
Tyla
how would this change that the legendary suckage upage build (Zergway) wont get owned all the time?
look at HA, all you see these days is Zergway...which is simple to beat.
Free fame ftw if your monks dont suck
look at HA, all you see these days is Zergway...which is simple to beat.
Free fame ftw if your monks dont suck
Zahr Dalsk
Remove rank.
fir
/not sure
sounds like a good idea but the waiting time would be long then :S
sounds like a good idea but the waiting time would be long then :S
RotteN
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
Remove rank.
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seriously, people worked hard to earn high ranks, just as much as people work hard to get high KoaBD ranks. Taking that away would be retarded.
every time HA discussions come up, there's always someone saying "remove rank". It won't happen, it's not even remotely an option imo (and no, i don't even have a high rank, i barely play tombs)
Lykan
/notsigned
r1 wammos wont learn anything fighting other wammos with heal breeze
r1 wammos wont learn anything fighting other wammos with heal breeze
Phoenix Tears
signed ..
get rid of the rank discrimination and give the game an easy way so that HA newbies can get easily into the materia and can find easier groups and fight versus other groups of their same "experience level" ....
get rid of the rank discrimination and give the game an easy way so that HA newbies can get easily into the materia and can find easier groups and fight versus other groups of their same "experience level" ....
MithranArkanere
It can't be done like the HoH is like now: One battle at a time.
If they added at leat 3 halls, they could make them separate. In each one, people with ranks nearest to the ones that have one enter, or somwthing like...
One for rank 1..5, another forn ranks 6..10 and a last for ranks 11..15.
But currently is impossible.
If they added at leat 3 halls, they could make them separate. In each one, people with ranks nearest to the ones that have one enter, or somwthing like...
One for rank 1..5, another forn ranks 6..10 and a last for ranks 11..15.
But currently is impossible.
Holy
/not signed
while you're at it, jsut make HA a RA type draw. Get picked by rank and such.
This will (imo) never happen, simply because you will not learn anything fighting other inexperienced r1 like you. All you will do is gain fame beating them, and when you get to r3, you enter a battle and get owned by other r3s.
Why? because you think when ppl say their monk is running "HB" they mean Healing Breeze....
while you're at it, jsut make HA a RA type draw. Get picked by rank and such.
This will (imo) never happen, simply because you will not learn anything fighting other inexperienced r1 like you.
All you will do is gain fame beating them, and when you get to r3, you enter a battle and get owned by other r3s.Why? because you think when ppl say their monk is running "HB" they mean Healing Breeze....
anonymous
/notsigned
You don't get better by playing crap players, you get better by playing good players and realizing what you did wrong. When I play any shooter and find a server with really good players, I don't leave, I keep coming back until I'm good enough to beat them. Everyone had to start at a low rank, we used our friends list to set up groups instead of rank, which is generally better quality. You can do the same. The complaint of "I suck so ruin the game for all the people that don't suck" doesn't work. Just get better.
If it does get seperated HoH should not be seperated. It is the final level of the tournament where the best teams are supposed to fight. If you aren't the best team why should you be able to win HoH?
I find it funny that all the people that complain about rank discrimination what to remove the discrimination from the players and integrate it into the game.
You don't get better by playing crap players, you get better by playing good players and realizing what you did wrong. When I play any shooter and find a server with really good players, I don't leave, I keep coming back until I'm good enough to beat them. Everyone had to start at a low rank, we used our friends list to set up groups instead of rank, which is generally better quality. You can do the same. The complaint of "I suck so ruin the game for all the people that don't suck" doesn't work. Just get better.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
It can't be done like the HoH is like now: One battle at a time.
If they added at leat 3 halls, they could make them separate. In each one, people with ranks nearest to the ones that have one enter, or somwthing like... One for rank 1..5, another forn ranks 6..10 and a last for ranks 11..15. But currently is impossible. |
I find it funny that all the people that complain about rank discrimination what to remove the discrimination from the players and integrate it into the game.
zwei2stein
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lykan
/notsigned
r1 wammos wont learn anything fighting other wammos with heal breeze |
yum
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
Yes they would. They would learn that running something better nets them much better chance to win. And in really illustrative way, since better builds are so much better they would really stand out.
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undeadgun
/Not sighed
r1 iway or sway
r3-5 iway or sway
r6-r8 iway or sway
if you want to fix HA, fix the Meta crap 1st
r1 iway or sway
r3-5 iway or sway
r6-r8 iway or sway
if you want to fix HA, fix the Meta crap 1st
Tyla
Quote:
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Originally Posted by undeadgun
r1 iway or sway
r3-5 iway or sway r6-r8 iway or sway if you want to fix HA, fix the Meta crap 1st |
Lame builds full of fail and noskill....fail!
Liberations
Use something like the Xbox Live TrueSkill rankings as well as the system they have now. Better yet use ELO rankings/ratings for each individual character (guilds too maybe?).
I don't see something like this in GW 1, but I do see it possible in GW 2.
I don't see something like this in GW 1, but I do see it possible in GW 2.
tehshadowninjar
Not sure if this was mentioned... (don't feel like reading alot), but it would be nice if people rank 0-2 fought each other until you got rank 3, and then so on. It'd be easier for people that have a good HA build or team ideal build to try out HA instead of sitting there for 30+ mins trying to get someone nice enough to let in an unranked person -_-
Tyla
Shadow, it'll be WAITING 30+ minutes then...
halcyonbiscuit
/signed for the noobs.
I'm one of them
I'm one of them
willypiggy
I'm rank 1 with about 40 fame and i'm gonna /notsign this. My reason is that I love the challenge. If Rank 0-2 were fighting each other how would a rank 2 get experience of playing rank 12's? When I get rank 3 I will be proud that I have my emote, even if it is only in some players eyes 'Babmi' I know that I have played against/with high ranked players and put all my effort in. This will also encourage Smurfing (although it will be less popular) If you are serious about HA then you should put the effort in and work towards it. Get on some peoples friends lists or join a HA guild. If you play enough and you are good then people will notice you and add yo uto there friend list.
Dronte
/notsigned
It'd screw up everything tbh.
Just learn how to lose ^^
It'd screw up everything tbh.
Just learn how to lose ^^
Likelytodie
/not signed, it's fine the way it is
Kanyatta
What if you're a lowly r3 with your r9 friends?
As I have said many times before, Rank really doesn't determine skill at the game, it just determines how much time you've put into the game.
Anyone who knows how to play the game ever watch the "good" (read: R12+) players in HoH obs mode? They screw up a lot more than some r6 or lower players that I know.
As I have said many times before, Rank really doesn't determine skill at the game, it just determines how much time you've put into the game.
Anyone who knows how to play the game ever watch the "good" (read: R12+) players in HoH obs mode? They screw up a lot more than some r6 or lower players that I know.
thedeadlyassassin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RotteN
sure, if you remove all PvE titles aswell then, and why not do away with obsidian armor aswell then ?
seriously, people worked hard to earn high ranks, just as much as people work hard to get high KoaBD ranks. Taking that away would be retarded. every time HA discussions come up, there's always someone saying "remove rank". It won't happen, it's not even remotely an option imo (and no, i don't even have a high rank, i barely play tombs) |
anonymous
Quote:
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Originally Posted by thedeadlyassassin
I'd disagree, in PvP you have a chance of vsing noobs, charr in HM don't get any easier at all.
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Viruzzz
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kanyatta
What if you're a lowly r3 with your r9 friends?
As I have said many times before, Rank really doesn't determine skill at the game, it just determines how much time you've put into the game. Anyone who knows how to play the game ever watch the "good" (read: R12+) players in HoH obs mode? They screw up a lot more than some r6 or lower players that I know. |
Tyla
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Viruzzz
Exactly what i'm thinking. Rank has nothing to do with skill, it's not a ranked system of how much you win/lose,
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zergway is full of fail, overused and gets people titles anyway...
much like the tank 'n' spank strategy still used today, WITHOUT PVE SKILLS
the last thing HA needs is clash of the zergs, because it will roll bad player under r3 who actualy want to learn to play instead of farmfarmfarm
Selket
Quote:
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Originally Posted by holymasamune
Which means...there's going to be 20 minute waits for matches! Even without a tiered system, there is plenty of no opposing party. No need to make the wait worse. Plus, all it does is make it so people who get to r3 got it by beating randomways. That just makes player skill even worse.
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Div
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Selket
It means we all make japanese free trial accounts to farm HA drops with semidecent builds :P
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Kanyatta
Quote:
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Originally Posted by undeadgun
fix the Meta crap 1st
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ViMway~~~~~~~~~~~~~
----------------Gone, but not forgotten-------------
VexedLucifer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by undeadgun
/Not sighed
r1 iway or sway r3-5 iway or sway r6-r8 iway or sway if you want to fix HA, fix the Meta crap 1st |
Also low ranked people will always be discriminated against. It happened to me, it happens to everyone. Suck it up run a balanced and get fame. Or run Sway and Iway and be flamed I don't care. But to split up the ranks would mean.
R1=Randomway.
R2-8=Sway or Iway or Rspike or Zergway or Packhunters.
R9-11=Most likely a balanced heaven.
R12+=Leeloof vs GANK
After sway and Iway are gone, what's left?(No really I can only think of Rspike which is easy to beat)
/grabs it rips it up and burns it.
PvErs shouldn't whine about PvP titles unless they are willing to lose their PvE titles