Crash farming, health, and OCD.

MMO's bring out obcessive-compulsive traits in people. That is a known fact.

Now recently, with the polar bear incident for example, one's heard instances of people farming 10-30 hours straight.

There's a warning in game that tells people to take a break every hour. That warning isn't just for laughs I'd imagine. Prolonged gaming/ computer exposure does have adverse effects on health.

Now a friend of mine thought that farming that long is their own conscious decsion, while it is in a sense , many of those people do it out of obcessive behaviour, and are mentally compelled to keep farming in the hope that the the next time will be it.

- Regardless of the damage that they are doing to themselves.

Farming is good etc , but crash farming certainly is not. Remember when it was reported that people died through over gaming?

Now Anet cant force ppl how to play, but they can certainly help matters.

My message to Anet is simply out of consideration for their players physical well being , is to not have instances where people's inner obcessive compulsive behaviour gets triggered to that extent, and they arehighly motivated to farm for an entire day or more straight , causing anything up to significant damage to their health and maybe even death.

Agree? Disagree?

So that message that says take a break is really just a warning so if you die from over farming they can't be sued?!

Ingenious.....

How can you blame Anet for this? Seriously. Learn your limits. It's upto each individual to tell themselves when enough is enough. There's a health warning message every hour as said. But other than that, what else can be done apart from sending a doctor to every player's house that's been online too long?

Haijiibirdhead, I understand what you are saying... and I can see where this thread might go with the flames, but MMOG's are obsessive by nature. It has nothing to do with farming. It's the social environment. I can extend that further and say gaming by it's very nature is obsessive. Take anything from FPS to Strategy. I think I've killed enough brain cells in the last week alone playing Super Mario Galaxy on my Wii... which doesn't have any redeemable value at all and I can't even say "HEY! Look at me and all my loot."

I still wish I could disable that damned message....

You really dont understance Obcessive behaviour do you. There is no "learn your limits", because the compulsion becomes near irresistable. If psychological problems were as easy as "do this, or just dont do this", then do you think that psychologists would be paid so much or even exist at all?

What Anet can do , as I said in the Original post , is that Anet can not set up instances where OCD behaviour is triggered for people to farm 20+ hrs straight. They can make it so that people would be motivated to farm, but over a healthy period of time.

imo , being a responsible company is doing that. Lets say that someone died from the Polar bear thing who was under an obcessive compulsion. Perhaps some of the blame might fall at the person , but much of the blame imo , falls at the corporation for setting that scenario up I think.

It's the same thing that causes gambling addiction. They are finding the human brain is hardwired to gravitate toward repetitive behaviors. When you add an small reward or sense of accomplishment, a variety of situations in which the same behavior produces different results and an occasional jackpot many people get hooked.

The problem to what you suggest, however, is that it is those very features which make games enjoyable to the average, non-addictive player. If you take them out of the design of the game you will lose pretty much all your players.

Perhaps they can avoid the extremes like the polar bear but if they want to keep the game fun there will always be those who will become addicted to it.

And by the way, I have OCD and so I do understand what you are saying. But there really isn't much ANet can do about it. It's my responsibility to adjust to life - not the world's responsibility to adjust to me.

In the interest of discussion, what would be an example of, "not set[ting] up instances where OCD behaviour is triggered..."?

I'm in Inde's corner here, virtually anything could be construed as a trigger for OCD behaviour in a game.

- I want to finish that next mission
- I want to farm that next stack of ecto
- I want to achieve that next grind title

...and so on, and so on.

Short of programming the game to limit the length of time you can play (auto-logoff), I don't really see an applicable example for your suggestion here. I can only imagine the outrage if ANY gaming company imposed limits on how long you're allowed to play.

I understand the polar bear example where you've got a limited time to get a particular item, but I don't necessarily think that only people with OCD spent an inordinate length of time farming for it. Back to my comment above, if I was unable to (or perceived I was unable to) get a polar bear because the game auto-logged me off after XX hours of play, I'd be OUTRAGED.

Folks, this doesn't need to be flamebait - it could actually turn into an interesting discussion!

This is very much a case wherein it is on the buyer to behave responsibly. If an OCD individual is concerned about having this kind of thing happen, don't play the game.

I find it amusing that this is even a discussion surrounding Guild Wars, which isn't a true MMO in any sense. There's no underlying design decision to attempt to get the player to play for as long as possible, in fact in many instances it's exactly the opposite. If a mentally unhealthy person can't responsibly handle playing this game, I'd venture to say they can't responsibly handle RPG's of any stripe and would do well to steer clear of them until they've sought appropriate medical treatment.

Not sure there is an answer for this because OCD doesn't not really make logical sense. Somehow the fight or flight survival instinct seems to get attached to a non threatening situation or non-survival action. So there isn't any real "trigger" you can identify.

I think what the OP is really talking about is addictive behavior in which a repeated action is rewarded and that reward is magnified in the player's mind so that the player keeps depending on the "next farm run" to feel good (like the alcoholic needing that next drink) This is the nature of gaming though so I don't think it can be avoided.

Either way, now that I think of it, the Polar bear run does not really fit. It was too short lived. It probably did become addictive or even an obsession to some but it was over in less than 48 hours. Unless someone felt they absolutely had to have the bear and began farming some other place for the money to get it, the absence of the run makes it impossible for the addiction to have an effect for more than the 48 hours or so it was there. For a real addiction I think you would need a fairly short not too hard run with a generally small payout, a moderately good payout (say a gold weapon or two) every few runs and the possibility of a very rare jackpot payout - elemental hard mode runs outside Sardalac would probably fit the bill. Obsessive would be more likely to concentrate on a specific reward (say a perfect zodiac - and would feel the need to play until that drop was achieved) or feel compelled to repeat the run until some undefined sense of having done it "right" was fulfilled. Addiction would be less likely to focus on a single farming run and more likely to become addicted to the action of farming itself - or one or more aspects of the game. Obsessive, I think, would be more likely to focus on a specific run or specific goal of some kind - feeling they had get it right before being able to move on.

In any case - I don't see how ANet can really design the game in a way that would avoid those things and still keep the game enjoyable for the average player.

The only solution to this problem is a level 80 female only persuasion spell.

Some people death level, or set them selves AFK for over night sessions, or over work sessions. What about those people who are able, and do live "normal" successful lives? Would their client kick them, or whatever Anet decides to do, or whatever you propose as punishment for those who are connected to the client for extended periods of time?

I perfer that ISPs, and those who supply the servers for games be neutral. They simply supply the service. It is up to the person to decide what to do. Whiel I ackowledge that some do have some major problems. But it NOT us, ths third person, to step in the way, and provide our opinion or try and force them to be better. One cannot simply enforce others to do as they wish. People/governments, the establishment have tried this, and everytime, it has failed.

The person with the problem must first realize they HAVE a problem. This is the same for any pyschological disorder. It is the first step to treatment. Not only for these disorders, but also most medical problems aswell. The player must know, and decide to stop, or treat, their disorder. It is not up to us to force this player to stop, or seek help. It will fail everytime.

I gotten 3 on them warning atleast 8 hours but it does not mean I was playing for 8 hours...

those 3 times I left my GW on and people who has passed away from playing game for long time are stupid..

LOL - can I get one of those? (or, rather, two?)

If you would sacrifice your real life needs to play an online game that warns you to take a break every hour or so, then you deserve the consequences that come to you.

Polar bear incident?

Me too
I know they won't add an option to have it off though lol.

New mini discovered day before Wintersday ended*cough*

*Where* have you *been!?*

Nonetheless, ANet can't be held responsible - and they're actually trying to go against it. The mini does nothing besides walk around and look angry once in awhile. You won't deal more damage, get more loot, nothing.

People die from binge-gaming? just like the people that die from binge-drinking and binge-ect

Heres the answer to the problem : Learn a thing called "moderation"
If people really can't tell when they need to stop playing a game and eat/drink/stay alive that person is mentally ill and should be supervised anyway.

Why do i only find out about mini's after they are no longer availiable

I have heard of people that have died from playing WoW.....i think it was WoW at least.

I've heard that too and yea pretty sure it was WoW. Not heard of anyone being GuildWars'd to death.....yet

If you dont know your own limits and when to take a break uninstall please.

Saying people die from WoW is like saying people die because guns kill them. Guns and video games don't kill people. People kill people, in this case, by depriving themselves of food and water for hours on end.

That works. 'Nuff said.

I lol'd.

Hard.

I heard about it from some game.. Second Life I believe.

LOL like ANet is worried about people grinding things that can potentially take unbelievable amounts of time. The whole object of PvE is, I'm sure at least in ANet's eyes, to get titles. Come on now, 10,000 chests open to max Treasure Hunter?

Put in the key and open the box. Put in the key and open the box. Put in the key and open the box. Put in the key and open the box. Put in the key and open the box. Put in the key and open the box. Put in the key and open the box. Put in the key and open the box. Put in the key and open the box. Put in the key and open the box. Put in the key and open the box. Put in the key and open the box. Put in the key and open the box. Put in the key and open the box. Put in the key and open the box. Put in the key and open the box. Put in the key and open the box. Put in the key and open the box. Put in the key and open the box. Put in the key and open the box. Put in the key and open the box.

I honestly don't think there is a problem with GW in terms of being so addictive someone can forget to keep themselves alive. The game doesn't need to be addictive like other online games, since there is no subscription fee. Sure, there are certain aspects that can become an addiction, but I think that ANet has done all they can do without ruining the game for all those people who can control themselves. The message that reminds you to take a break is all that can really be done, and I think it does work rather well to remind the player they have been playing too long.

For other online games, I do agree that, to some extent, the blame does lie on the developers. Developers of subscription-based games deliberately design their games to keep their customers playing, otherwise they don't get any money. Since the player is paying a subscription fee, they feel the need to get their money's worth, so they are incredibly vulnerable to become addicted to doing certain activities in the game.

You can't just shrug it off, saying that it's solely the person's fault if they get too engrossed. We have addictive personalities by nature. Any stimulant can become a habitual thing. Sure, we shouldn't get rid of all stimulants just because a few people more easily become obsessed or addicted to them than others, but it is important to implement some system to help keep their addiction at bay, even if it is just a reminder message.

And yes, people have died from playing computer games for too long. I think one of the most famous cases is the guy who was sitting in an internet cafe for three or four days, and eventually the attendant had to call the police to try and get him to leave, and they discovered he had actually died. Another case that I heard of was that a couple went out to an internet cafe, leaving their young child at home alone. The child managed to fall off the bed or something, and he or she died.

This is quite a serious matter. I can't believe some people can just shrug it off with the excuse that it is the person's own fault. It mostly is, yes, but I think that the entire human race would be mindlessly addicted to one thing or another if nobody did anything to help each other.

Im one of those people who suppport the control urself argument. relax its a game. if ur too adicted to it its ur own fault. anything is possible. uve certainly heard of ppl becoming addicted to anything and learning hwo to quit, havent u? its all in one's own will.

Everquest was one of the first.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=31536

And my personal opinion is that its (un)natural selection in effect. No offence but these people would have died of something else rather quickly. There are deeper issues at work than just "loot".

ok, i agree GW has become one big grindfest with so many high end weapons and minipets, and a bunch of annoyingly long titles to accomplish (ill leave my opinion on this matter out of the way for a moment).

However, in that instance you talked about someone dying was the very reason those messages were put in back in the day. I remember hearing from my guildies at the time that the guy was found in his feces and urin, hadn't eaten in a long time, and had suffered a heart attack from all the stuff he was taking trying to stay awake. And yeah, anet issued some kind of official "im sorry it happened" thing. No, it wasn't GW (never found out what game it really was) but they saw how something similar could happen to them.

Now, on to what you're trying to say...
So, you want anet to make everything easy to get? Or do you want an "OCD" checkbox when you buy the game, so that it kicks you off every X hours and keeps you off for X hours?

OCD checkbox=discrimination, which might mean less sales

Autokick+lockout=infringement of players rights, since we paid for the availability of it

Basically, if you want people with such tendencies to be protected against grinding in MMO's, the best help you can give is prevent them from going to the store and buying the game in the first place.

Your thread is now 2 pages long. Please take a break.

^_^

^lol.

If you can't control yourself you don't need help from Anet, you need real life help.

You win this thread.

if you play a game like GW for more than 12 hours straight, you need help (seriously, after 2 hours i'm bored as hell).

Anet cant help this, and no1 is going to look at a labal on the box of the game, and if they see it, they dont care because they wanna play.

lol, this is quite funny,me and a friend laugh at those alert things, the most we have ever got is 14 hours. They don't annoy me but they do remind me that I need to take a break (Which is nice) I even went as far as installing an add-on when I used to play WoW which displays how long you have played for. If you put a game before our personal needs that perhaps you need to see a shrink?

Hi

most ive got on that thing is `8 hours....

Thing is, taht was hours play, followed by 16 hours AFK followed by an hours play....

I think the timer thing would be much more reliable if it found a way to reset after x amounts of AFK minutes, rather than just how long youve had GW.exe open.....

Oljomo

My god man get a F***ing clue!

I love how people REFUSE to take the blame for thier own actions. Anytime something like this occurrs, whats the first thing that happens? Lets blame it on someone else. This is the root of things from kids bringing guns to school and insurance rates being to high. There is no accountability for ones self. Example, its not the rock salt manufacturers fault if you slip and fall on a stretch of ice outside the local coffe shop. So why are people suing them, the owner, the employees, the landscapers, and the local municipality when incidents like this occurr?

This chain of thinking begins very young with parents and thier children and continues as learned behavior as an adult.

Your opinion, isn't an opinion it is a fundamental flaw in a learned behavior. You need to learn what responsibility is before you can understand what I am saying.

Your response will be ignored because you don't understand the basis of the of the problem.

I was going to point out the kid who killed himself after dying in EQ but someone beat me to it. Also the guy in Korea (I think) that played for like 4 days straight on one of the grinding MMOs and died of sleep deprivation.

It's not the company's fault. They put out a game to make money, and want to keep it interesting enough that people will pay $15 or whatever a month to keep buying the service. Some people have things in them that make them easily addicted (to gambling, mmos, porn, whatever) It's possible that the fake game world gives them power that they do not have in the real world.

GW is not a monthly subscription service. The original intention was not to have people play all the time, it was to get people to play the new games for a while then stop, but be willing to buy the games as they come out to play again. That's not what happened. However, that's not to say people can't get addicted to it. GW has a really low level cap. It's really easy to get max weapons and armor (thus no spending 2 months trying to do a quest to get an 'epic weapon' or mount or whatever. The only difference between a collectors max item and a super rare green item is the pixels. Same with mini pets. Some are uber rare, but they serve no purpose. I like mini pets, I have a bunch. I'm annoyed that I knew nothing about the polar bear pet cause that would have given me something to farm when I got bored with snowball. But I have no intention of spending 3 days peeing in a cup so I never leave my screen, trying to get this uber rare item that does nothing, in a video game. Thus they've not done anything to make the game super addictive. The people that still get addicted have problems that can't be diagnosed on this board.

ANET needs to add to there online store: $100.00 for all titles unlock
might as well.