Realms of the Gods instead of dungeons would have doubled the game's lifespan

Lagg

Lagg

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

W/

Eye of the North was a good expansion, especially for the more casual player. I'm also very grateful for the Bonus Mission Pack which offered us a couple of quirky solo quests and some shiny stuff to boot.

But all this said and done, I can't see myself playing the GWEN dungeons or BMP a year from now.



Which leads me to my point: ArenaNet has some exceptionally talented people making this game, but they seem to be completely off the content-to-play ratio.

That is: time ArenaNet spent on making content and time that people will spend playing said content.



Look at UW and FoW. Those places are nearly three years old now and still booming with activity. They have centralised party formation outposts (accessible to every campaign), a high but still accessible level of difficulty, arguably offer the rarest loot (Eternal Blade, anyone?) and definitely offer the most prestigious (read: expensive) armor in the game.

If we look at GWEN dungeons, the best you can say is that there's a lot of them.



Now let's assume that ArenaNet had added the remaining Realms of the Gods (Melandru, Dwayna and Lyssa) as high-end content instead of dungeons. That's three areas the size of UW/FoW.

Let's also assume that these three areas would drop three new rare crafting materials (one in each, comparable to Ecto and Shards) and a single armor crafter in one of those three domains, requiring (*drum roll*) 120 (or 105) of each of these rare crafting materials.

That's 3x 105 of those new crafting materials, with the obvious 15k crafting cost. And that's it. Most expensive armor in the game, meaning most wanted, meaning everyone and his dog would go questing and farming for it, for a long, long time.



So why didn't the remaining Realms of the Gods happen?


  • We needed something new, besides, MOAR = BETTOR

    All I can say is: never change a winning team. FoW and UW have always been the most popular high-end areas in the game, eclipsed only briefly by The Deep and DoA when they were still new. Dungeons will go down the same road as the latter. The fact that there's so many of them won't change this in the least, as they're all pretty much copies of each other.


  • It would have taken too much time to make

    Time otherwise spent on making what? Dungeons? The Bonus Mission Pack? I'd have gladly skipped those for content that would have kept me busy for another year or two, until, say, the release of GW2.


  • It wouldn't have been accessible enough to casual players

    If anything, it would have been more accessible than most dungeons, at least geographically and numerically. And much easier for them to find a human team for. But no, it's true, playing with people is so 2005.

    As for difficulty, well, what can I say. Ursan Blessing?


  • More-expensive-than-Obsidian Armor would have been difficult to make and too inaccessible

    Dwarven Armor could have easily posed for that, especially since it already features Chaos Gloves. But honestly, an Obsidian reskin would have been enough. In the end, end-game armor is not about how fancy it looks, it's about how expensive it is and how long you had to farm for it. It's a "title" that other people can't possibly miss when they look at you.

    As for the more casual players, there would still be the whole range of Norn/Asura/Ebon armors, that are already hard enough to get. If anything, they should have been made more accessible in the first place.


  • Well, I'm glad you were able to vent that. Will you please stop whining about Realms of the Gods now?

    Yes, thank you, I will.

I pwnd U

I pwnd U

God of Spammers

Join Date: Oct 2005

in the middle of a burning cornfield...

Scars Meadows [SMS] (Officer)

New rare materials to be dropped in the dungeons... hmm... Onyx Gemstones anyone?

There is also plenty of new armor because of the new characters added to the story line.

I see alot of people forming groups for Duncan HM all the time, which is considered the "Elite" area of GWEN. So all the elite areas of all the campaigns are usually in use and busy.

Coridan

Coridan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

US

Old Married Gamers {OMG}

W/

/signed and /not signed.........not sure what you want here... I am not sure that introducing another 3 "rare" materials would be a good idea...then the price of things would vary too much and people would bitch and moan about it even more. havning more elite areas...again don't think this would be a good idea...since UW and FOW are really the only elite areas that are used to any extent...as far as i can see.

Longasc

Longasc

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

Lagg,

any well designed dungeon or well designed gold realm, which would not be so vastly different, would have been better.

Most dungeons are just not exciting, too much copy and paste. How would you rate Duncan, I think it is not bad, still... I cannot help, actually the dungeons we have sound quite nice on paper, but somehow I do not love them.

I planned to do the Ooze Pit completely, e.g. not only the quest relevant part, and hope for some good drops and dwarven faction. Still did not do it.


You basically want some kind of Sorrow's Furnace, but like FoW and UW having a longer quest chain or quests starting in there.

This is basically a beefed up dungeon. And I agree, I would like that, too.

Lagg

Lagg

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by I pwnd U
New rare materials to be dropped in the dungeons... hmm... Onyx Gemstones anyone?
I don't see how you can compare Onyx (and Diamonds) to Ecto and Shards. To begin with: you need quite a bit less of them and they serve a completely different purpose.


Quote:
There is also plenty of new armor because of the new characters added to the story line.
Yes, there is new Armor, but is there really something there that would convince someone with Obsidian Armor to switch to GWEN Armor, other than the fact that it's new (or that, Balthazar forbid, he likes how it looks)?

And for the record: I don't even own a single Obsidian Armor.


Quote:
I see alot of people forming groups for Duncan HM all the time, which is considered the "Elite" area of GWEN. So all the elite areas of all the campaigns are usually in use and busy.
GWEN is still relatively new. Compare this to The Deep. You'll find almost no one there. DoA is having a bit of a revival thanks to Ursan Blessing, but how long will that last?

Now compare those three to Temple of the Ages.

SpeedyKQ

SpeedyKQ

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

E/Me

The Realms are considered core content, available to anyone who owns any chapter. So if they add a realm, they don't sell any new games. If they add a big new area to Nightfall (or whatever) instead, it creates some buzz, and maybe some people who are missing that particular chapter go and buy it.

Ever since they decided to make the realms part of Factions, I figured we'd never see another one.

And of course, they'd rather be working on GW2 now, anyways.

ProgTes

ProgTes

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

Under that rock.

We Demand A Shrubbery [Ni]

W/E

Great idea. If they would only make one more update to GW1 before abandoning the ship, pretty please make a new Realm of Dwayna/Lyssa/Melandru. The FoW and UW are still attractive places to go for either money makers, casual players or quest fanatics. Another realm? I would love it.

Trub

Trub

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

Sitting in the guildhall, watching the wallows frolic.

Trinity of the ascended [SMS]+[Koss]+[TAM]=[ToA]

ANet is always popping surprises on us un-suspecting gamers....you never know what might be added to the content (even BEFORE GW2 is released.)
Remember, GW2 is still up to 2 years away....they have new designers and developers that want to experiment with some of the design/mechanics that maybe coming our way!
Enjoy the game, and see what might be offered in the future..
EDIT: *enjoy...2 3 4

Lagg

Lagg

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyKQ
The Realms are considered core content, available to anyone who owns any chapter.
If you're talking about adding them now (I was under the impression that GWEN/BMP would be the last ever content update), it would still be easy enough to limit access to them (You have members in your party who cannot enter this area).

However, that doesn't mean it will actually happen.



If it would somehow still be released, it could be:

  • Accessible to everyone who owns at least a single campaign (unlikely, even though it would be an awesome marketing stunt which would probably entice players who quit the game long ago to try out these new areas)
  • Accessible to everyone who bought GWEN (unlikely, we already got the BMP)
  • A full-blown expansion (unlikely, especially for this little content)
  • An Online Store-only expansion (possible but still rather unlikely, as it's guaranteed to create a riot amongst those who can't access the Store)


To sum it up, my Magic 8-ball says "Maybe".


Quote:
And of course, they'd rather be working on GW2 now, anyways.
My hopes are here. Maybe the Realms will return (with reinforcements) in Episode 2.

lyra_song

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

If Guild Wars is like Magic, then we need new booster packs.

Numa Pompilius

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trub
they have new designers and developers that want to experiment with some of the design/mechanics that maybe coming our way
Yeah... like Ursan Blessing.

I pwnd U

I pwnd U

God of Spammers

Join Date: Oct 2005

in the middle of a burning cornfield...

Scars Meadows [SMS] (Officer)

I don't know why we bother arguing with you, you are dead set on being right and nothing we say can change your mind.

As pointed out before UW and FoW are core areas, anyone with any campaign can reach them. Thus making them more popular. Yes the Deep and other elite areas are not as active as UW and FoW but that could be due to how long it takes to complete each area. 3 hours for most groups to complete Urgoz, Deep, or DoA is a big chunk of time. Most groups don't go clear UW or FoW, for UW they simply go for Smite runs normally to get ecto. FoW is easier to clear but most people are just doing Forgemaster runs. Yes GWEN is new, which is a good reason why Duncan's is still popular.

I don't have any part of obsidian either, nor do I have armor from GWEN. IMO you should never get a campaign just for the armor. It is a nice added bonus and some of it looks good. But it should never be a main reason to get another campaign.

Onyx gemstones are actually more expensive then Shards by 2k and Diamonds are not new, though it found a use in GWEN. What they are used for does not matter as much as price imo. Onyx Gemstones are still wanted by the community to craft weapons, Weapons should NOT require as much materials as armor as it is only one piece and armor you have to get 5 pieces to get the full armor. Yes you don't need as many of them but you need 15 of both Ecto and Shards to get the Obsidian Helm/Gloves/Boot. One piece of armor should be more expensive then a single weapon as you have to craft armor or get collectors, you don't get it in drops.

lyra_song

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

I guess the question is...

would you pay for new realm of gods?

~ Dan ~

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2006

D/

I really don't see why they left out some of the Gods' realms in the first place. It kinda seems like it was missed out, rushed (oh, sounds like GW:EN).

But anywho, as there are more dungeons i suppose they should offer more re playability, but to me there is something unique that FoW/UW have to offer - whereas the dungeons all feel the same.

Life story over - i'd have been much happier with new realms of the Gods instead of dungeons. Just hope they will be implemented soon - though i highly doubt it.

English Warrior

English Warrior

LEET HAXXOR!

Join Date: Feb 2007

Random Arena

N/A

/signed
i agree totally there is nothing too do in GW really after you done campaigns except GRIND but with 3 new areas i would be there all day long seeing whats new i would mud wrestle my dad for this in-game.

Bryant Again

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyra_song
I guess the question is...

would you pay for new realm of gods?
I would p2p for Guild Wars, so ya.

leprekan

leprekan

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Posers and Wannabes [nubs]

W/E

Not saying they should add anything at this stage. But count me as /signed on they should have finished the realms of the Gods.

Molock

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Qu??bec

Legacy of Angels [Halo]

E/

I agree that the remaining Realms of the Gods should be added. They would provide a lot more entertainement and replayable content than 90% of the GWEN dungeons imo.

However, I disagree with the addition of new armor sets. What they should do is add ONE crafting material (with the drop rate of ecto.. more or less) that would drop in all the realms. A semi-large amount of this new material would be needed to craft a whole new line of weapons. The crafter would be in one of the realms, like the Eternal Forgemaster and for a large sum of cash and materials he would craft weapons. The obsidian armor equivalent in weapons..

Ya.. anyway that is what I believe they should do and I am not getting my hopes up. Chances are nothing will change.

Emik

Emik

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

Belgium

[FaRM] Farm For The Win

N/

5 Gods = 5 Realms

/signed all the way.
I'm pretty sure if we hammer enough they can add it as a new content any time.
It's not as if they're actively going to add some new content so it's going to be iffy at best but you never know.

aapo

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-the-noob
But anywho, as there are more dungeons i suppose they should offer more re playability, but to me there is something unique that FoW/UW have to offer - whereas the dungeons all feel the same.
- Quality over quantity, anyone? I personally don't give a crap about 18 new dungeons with recycled layouts and useless random greens at the end. At least Diablo II created new layout every time you started game...

So what makes UW and FoW so good places?
- Every campaign has access to them
- There's arguably the coolest armors for all classes to get
- Items not found elsewhere
- Many quests and different areas inside

Urgoz's Warren and The Deep would be cool places too if it didn't cost gold just to go stare at empty lobby and if the end rewards were useful for professions besides Warriors and Rangers too. Small things to fix, but requires some effort. Apparently ANET is so set to restrict access for endgame areas in Guild Wars for reasons I'll never understand. It isn't any kind of reward to be able to play.

hurric

hurric

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

BC

/signed too. don't care about new armor but something interesting/fun to play rather than having an invinci boss in the end or pure grind. This is the reason I didn't get gwen til a couple months had passed and only because guildies got it.

ANet direction has gone towards Grind and I'm sure GW2 will introduce even more grind (e.g. maybe if you have fow armor in your HoM, you don't have to grind as much to get fow in GW2?)

It would really really really help, if they had a centralized start point for all / each dungeons as mentioned above. I haven't done a dungeon in forever (only ones I did were with guildies) Seriously what's so fun about repeating the same damn quests to hand in a book. I rather do proph/NF/factions over than same stupid quests in gwen. Having centralized start point would make it 10x better.

Keithark

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

Be Aggressive B E Aggressive [AGRO]

E/Me

Want to increase life of dungeons? Make the monsters drop ecto. FoW and UW are still played for that reason only for the most part.

Old Man Of Ascalon

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2007

Phoenix Warriors of the Apocolypse

R/Mo

I completely 100% agree with you Lagg and do not see how anyone could disagree.

FoW and UW have been the staple in high-end PvE activities since the beginning. They are still popular today. I think if they would have added another 2 or 3 realms into the game, there would be absolutely no problem with lack of content in the year or so leading up to GW2. This is not debatable, it is a fact.

TaCktiX

TaCktiX

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2006

The Order of Chaos Reborn [ToC]

/Signed for Realms of the Gods, of course.

One thing I'd like people to mull over: Dhuum and Menzies had bit-part roles in Nightfall, assisting Abaddon in his attempt to take over the world. They were the main antagonists to the trouble in the Underworld and the Fissure of Woe. So their actions against the Five True Gods were in a series. If there were more realms added, they'd have to invent new half-deities, fallen deities, etc., and the Lore would barely exist to support it.

That said, I will bet money that all 5 areas will release with Guild Wars 2, with UW and FoW updated to reflect the 250-years-from-now status.

And as for the note that UW/FoW are popular because they're core: explain why ToA regularly has 3 American Districts, and Zin Ku/Chantry are lucky to have 2 groups forming period?

C_MON

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Dec 2007

When they first added UW and FoW back in some beta weekend I loved the idea. Never got around to playing in it much back then, but I always thought they might some day add the rest of the gods' realms. Too bad they never did.

IMO there would not have to be new materials, but armors and other fun stuff. Also, I'm more for quality over quantity, so sure some dungeons in EotN look nice, but I would rather have had less and better designed and looking.

cosyfiep

cosyfiep

are we there yet?

Join Date: Dec 2005

in a land far far away

guild? I am supposed to have a guild?

Rt/

/signed....seems the devs dont like to finish stuff (gwen anyone?) so why should the realms be any different. sigh....really DO wish they would finish it, but I think I will just add that to my gw wish list. (not crazy about the new armor, but I think fow armor is the uggggghliest stuff ingame).

Torqual

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

W/Mo

I quite like the dungeons how they are and am not bored with them yet.

It's nice that you can do them with H/H on your own, and don't have to pay to get in like the Realms of the Gods.

However, I don't like the time it takes (and the stuff you have to fight) just to GET TO some of the dungeons.

And, I think the OP has come up with a very good idea for a future expansion pack.

Turtle222

Turtle222

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

:D:D

D/W

Lagg, they already thought of that. Cmon, 90-99% of people that play in UW/FoW do it only to farm, and not touch any other quests in there. dungeons counter this - thus its like UW but saving you the effort of just killing monsters for ectos and offering the item at the end.

mazey vorstagg

mazey vorstagg

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Nodnol

Meeting of Lost Minds

E/Mo

Hmm

I've actually never been to the FoW and only done UW once, the reason being that you can't take henchies and I'm a completely solo player. If they did make it so you could play alone however, I'd be there all the time.

Lagg

Lagg

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

W/

Thanks for the many constructive posts (both the negative and the positive).



It's good to see that I'm definitely not the only one (or first one) who'd like to see the Realms happen, though I now hold very little hope to see them appear in GW1.

And while I would buy them in heartbeat, releasing them through the Online Store would probably turn out to be a disaster, as many other people cannot access the Store.

Look at the rage that has come over the community concerning the quirky but otherwise forgettable Bonus Mission Pack not being available to all. Making an expansion of that importance Online Store-only would be like the second coming of Spontaneous Combusting Gwen.



At least ArenaNet knows what's on our GW2 wishlist.



And of course, an official (or semi-official) word from Gaile wouldn't hurt.

romeus petrus

romeus petrus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

Urgoz Warren

Legion of Doom [LOD] Home of PWNZILLA http://PWNZILLA.guildlaunch.com

/signed for more realm of the Gods.

Dungeons in GWEN were one of the biggest dissappointments since the release of GW. Can't see anyone doing them for more that title grinding.

guildwars101

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2006

yes i would would like to see a thing like this
but i have another idea too
new type of pvp..instead of ABs make two opposing team with like idk 25 peeps each and 2 castles and just several strateggic points kind of like a step towards the world vs.world batlles planned in GW2 but on a smaller scale and then anet could get feedback on the idea before they screw it up permanently even thoguh anet never messes anything up

rly what id like to see more of i beaty..HoH=BEAUTIFUL this place is not also a great pvp stage for a wonger of game design and truly a sight to behold...try to make something beautiful like that too

shoyon456

shoyon456

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

D/

/sign

This is an easy way for anet to add content to gw1 as one of their "farewell things" because it can be accessed via any campaign. A new realm of the gods could also be used to test some key ideas in gw2 to see how players favor them.

AND if anet really wanted to bring out more funds or whatever for gw2, they could always make it like the BMP or do an online purchase function

oh and finally... a new realm of the gods would give key reason for anet to add some of the "core skins" that were neglected by the newer classes (ex. eternal scythe/daggers/spear)

PS: on the last statement, its just that I feel warriors are unfairly given more skins and weapons...

Chrono Re delle Ere

Chrono Re delle Ere

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

The Land of Hyrule

[GoE]

W/

I just think that there will be a big update this year, like 6 months before gw2 release? or more , imo. Like did happen for sorrow furnace (THAT is a dungeon; movies, lots of quests, hom statue zomg! ) and DoA. Where did the design a weapon contest designs go? There was that amazing focus that has not seen the light yet.

TaCktiX

TaCktiX

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2006

The Order of Chaos Reborn [ToC]

Quote:
PS: on the last statement, its just that I feel warriors are unfairly given more skins and weapons...
But monks and casters use them just as much...

kade

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Currently residing in ToA dis 1

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyra_song
would you pay for new realm of gods?
absolutely.1

Sora267

Sora267

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

/signed

I remember reading somewhere (Either from Gaile or in PC Gamer, don't remember) that they would add Sorrow's Furnace scaled updates in between GW:EN and GW2. It'd be great if new realms was one of them. IMHO, the Ice Wastes (When clear of monsters) in UW is one of the most beautiful places in GW, and I'd love something to that degree.

6am3 Fana71c

6am3 Fana71c

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2006

Just show me where do I need to sig-
Oh wait.

What's the point of this thread? Idea of introducing more God realms is as old as this game. Obviously, it won't happen. If this is thread made to QQ over that fact, then GG.

And, by the way. If any "big updates" even happen, PvP is the first thing that should be adressed.

Lagg

Lagg

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6am3 Fana71c
Obviously, it won't happen. If this is thread made to QQ over that fact, then GG.
QQ has accomplished (and destroyed) a lot already, some more won't hurt.

This said, I do share your pessimism.

Quote:
And, by the way. If any "big updates" even happen, PvP is the first thing that should be adressed.
I think the "big update" for PvP is called GW2.

KamikazeChicken

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/

FoW and UW have seen CONSIDERABLE decreases in activity since release. The most you normally see are people doing forge or farming ecto, neither of which are really activity. The only reason people are starting to return to those areas are the new end chests and the high material requirements of Obsidian armor. The only way another realm of the god would maintain interest would be to have a set of UNIQUE armor with mats only found in that zone.

I wish Anet would add the other realms (I've wanted that since Betas), but at this point it's obvious that it'll never happen. Our best bet is that they may re-add FoW/UW to GW2 along with the other realms.