thasadar:
that's good stuff that you got a GM to reply to you. I wish I could personally get ahold of this guy, because his answer frustrates me. If a GM has time to reply, they have time to offer a concrete answer to a specific situation, not his 'I can't answer hypotheticals' nonsense.
They'll say that a fully-automated gameplaying bot is illegal. Yeah we all know that. They'll admit that scripting emotes to a G15 (/resign, /rank, etc) is fine. We have enough common sense to figure that out.
I want to know about scripting using alcohols. That's not botting, farming, playing in a pvp or explorable area. But it's not being at the keyboard the entire time. The thought of mindlessly double clicking alcs over 10,000 minutes truly bores me. That's 167 hours of otherwise game time I can't get back. And a straight answer from GM Greg (or someone from Anet) would be greatly appreciated. I don't think that's too much to ask.
Post your useful G15 Macro keys
VitisVinifera
thasadar606
Well...I'll try to be fair in my affirmation: if I would cheat using my G15 or any other software I would expect a ban..and be sure ..as game masters they rely on logs of in-game events(a system that starts logging when a player begins to behave fishy is built-in guild wars -TESTED- )
Drinking potions (IN MY OPINION) does not harm anyone!
BUT
-there we go again-
Support said that we should play the game as intended...( maybe they intend to track the use of alcohol in instance with the use of dwarf skills,or maybe an automation of the consumption of materials (materials that you fairly WON/BOUGHT) does not contradict the thin limits of macro use under the license agreement.
Drinking potions (IN MY OPINION) does not harm anyone!
BUT
-there we go again-
Support said that we should play the game as intended...( maybe they intend to track the use of alcohol in instance with the use of dwarf skills,or maybe an automation of the consumption of materials (materials that you fairly WON/BOUGHT) does not contradict the thin limits of macro use under the license agreement.
thasadar606
I just thought up of a comparison between MACRO USERS and real life events:
It's just like drugs being illegal and us smoking weed trying to convince the police : "C'mon...man..I-s just weed!..Weed ain't even a drug!"
excuse the parallel but I found it funny -hope u do too
PS:
I have flooded this topic with my post sry for that but i rally love GW and I really love my G15 ...and them cuties going together is like butter and toast.
It's just like drugs being illegal and us smoking weed trying to convince the police : "C'mon...man..I-s just weed!..Weed ain't even a drug!"
excuse the parallel but I found it funny -hope u do too
PS:
I have flooded this topic with my post sry for that but i rally love GW and I really love my G15 ...and them cuties going together is like butter and toast.
Aerian_Skybane
Quote:
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Originally Posted by VitisVinifera
thasadar:
that's good stuff that you got a GM to reply to you. I wish I could personally get ahold of this guy, because his answer frustrates me. If a GM has time to reply, they have time to offer a concrete answer to a specific situation, not his 'I can't answer hypotheticals' nonsense. They'll say that a fully-automated gameplaying bot is illegal. Yeah we all know that. They'll admit that scripting emotes to a G15 (/resign, /rank, etc) is fine. We have enough common sense to figure that out. I want to know about scripting using alcohols. That's not botting, farming, playing in a pvp or explorable area. But it's not being at the keyboard the entire time. The thought of mindlessly double clicking alcs over 10,000 minutes truly bores me. That's 167 hours of otherwise game time I can't get back. And a straight answer from GM Greg (or someone from Anet) would be greatly appreciated. I don't think that's too much to ask. |
You are fully automating a part of the in game experience that requires human input, no matter how mundane. You are creating a repetitive script that will give you the ability to hit a button and walk away from the computer while completing something that could NOT be done without it.
If that thought bores you, then why the hell do you want the title? As for answers, do you really think ANet is going to give up a position of priveledge to give a specific breakdown of the use of macros? This is the information age, something that is said today will be outdone or disproved tomorrow, and something they say today that is "not a problem" may turn out to be a huge problem when someone abuses it the next.
Common sense.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by thasadar606
PS:
I have flooded this topic with my post sry for that but i rally love GW and I really love my G15 ...and them cuties going together is like butter and toast. |
. Butter and toast is boring and not as tasty.
thasadar606
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Aerian_Skybane
Just wanted to make your comparison "sweeter". Them going together would be like vanilla ice cream and hot fudge
. Butter and toast is boring and not as tasty. |
VitisVinifera
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Aerian_Skybane
To be honest dude, I think the whole alchohol automation thing is pretty easily common sense as well.
You are fully automating a part of the in game experience that requires human input, no matter how mundane. You are creating a repetitive script that will give you the ability to hit a button and walk away from the computer while completing something that could NOT be done without it. If that thought bores you, then why the hell do you want the title? As for answers, do you really think ANet is going to give up a position of priveledge to give a specific breakdown of the use of macros? This is the information age, something that is said today will be outdone or disproved tomorrow, and something they say today that is "not a problem" may turn out to be a huge problem when someone abuses it the next. |
What you've stated as your interpretation of what's being done in an alcohol-consuming script is virtually exactly what's being done in /resign, /emote, etc. scripts, apart from being at the computer the entire time. In some ways it's similar to things which Anet has stated is perfectly fine, in some ways it's not. Again, I'm just asking for simple clarification. No problem with that is there?
Yes, what goes into the alc title bores me. As does farming, grinding, taking 8 characters through 4 titles. But there are rewards too. I wouldn't be shaking the earth by stating that many aspects of the franchise are becoming boring and stale. If I can remove a bit of that through a keyboard script, AND Anet says it's perfectly fine, why not?
I'm not trying to get Anet to overturn something, change their minds, open a pandora's box, or create problems. I'm just asking an honest question, to get either an aswer that it's considered botting and is actionable, or it's a harmless script that doesn't affect gameplay or the economy. Either way, I just want to know where things stand so that either I can avoid what's considered a violation, or to save myself dozens of hours. That's a win-win.
thasadar606
Quote:
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Originally Posted by VitisVinifera
thasadar:
that's good stuff that you got a GM to reply to you. I wish I could personally get ahold of this guy, because his answer frustrates me. If a GM has time to reply, they have time to offer a concrete answer to a specific situation, not his 'I can't answer hypotheticals' nonsense. They'll say that a fully-automated gameplaying bot is illegal. Yeah we all know that. They'll admit that scripting emotes to a G15 (/resign, /rank, etc) is fine. We have enough common sense to figure that out. I want to know about scripting using alcohols. That's not botting, farming, playing in a pvp or explorable area. But it's not being at the keyboard the entire time. The thought of mindlessly double clicking alcs over 10,000 minutes truly bores me. That's 167 hours of otherwise game time I can't get back. And a straight answer from GM Greg (or someone from Anet) would be greatly appreciated. I don't think that's too much to ask. |
..for my self: ill never farm my titles...I'm for the fun not for the recognition of some Korean kids who faint when they see my Slayer of all title.
(btw, i don't have a Slayer of All title
)And dude! I terrorised NCsoft with G15 questions!The last answer just cut it for me.
Keep in mind! YOU ARE NOT ASKING FOR PERMISSION, it's not like a Game Masters will just say:
GAMEMASTER1:"Oh...look the poor fellow is struggling to rank-up....oh....he can use some HELP" "
GAMEMASTER2:"But we should ban him! He is practicaly away from the keyboard and does not earn his title!He is abusing macros!"
GAMEMASTER1:"ITS OK!...I gave him permission!"
if you follow my point...the same thing he told me applies for you, and for us all: you can use SIMPLE HELP from periferics -especially hardware components (seem they're not too found of software help) but stay ingame! recall the line in my answer that specifically mentioned "DO NOT WALK AWAY FROM THE COMPUTER AND LET THE MACROS DO THE JOB"
CONCLUSION: read again his answer, they do not take fondly to "I'll just let my character do the dew"
BTW empty your private mesages bulk!
AND ARENA NET DIDN'T SAY IT"S OK TO USE MACROS TO FARM/SPAM KEYSTROKES or ABUSE...!!!
VitisVinifera
wow that's pretty uncool to respond to a PM (which you initiated, and I replied to) by posting in a public thread.
Pandora's box
Yeah, well, so who is gonna post macro's? That's what this threat's about isn't it?
BTW, I really wonder why a new version of G15 has been released, its making the keyboard more expensive, but I don't see any improvements with the older version (which is not for sale anymore )
BTW, I really wonder why a new version of G15 has been released, its making the keyboard more expensive, but I don't see any improvements with the older version (which is not for sale anymore
)
Esan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by thasadar606
autohotkey
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Jade
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alexandra-Sweet
I've been using Macros for very long now as a quick skill bar.
Now if we could use this applet without getting banned... PlayNC says it's okay: Thank you for contacting Guild Wars Support. We have no issue with the display of information so long as you do not modify, adapt, reverse engineer or decompile the Guild Wars client, or otherwise attempt to derive source code from the client when creating the applet. But then again Arena Net can be trigger happy with banning when data from GW.exe gets pulled into another .exe |
On a side note about using macros to get the drunkard title. I'm not sure I understand why it'd be such a huge deal to do this. I mean, say I had my necro sitting in my gh getting drunk. I have a handy countdown timer set for 3 minutes so that I can click on the booze stack exactly every 3 minutes. I do this for 8 hours straight with no pee breaks, smoke breaks or food breaks. Would I get banned for "bot like activity"? Or would I be inturrupted every so often by someone verifying that I am indeed in front of my computer? Because if not, then how would they ever find out (or care for that matter) that you were using a macro to do the exact same thing?
I understand how using macros to farm critters would harm the economy, and in turn harm the gw community. But how would using a macro to click on a fricken stack of booze harm anyone or anything in the comunity? I mean aside from lowering the available amount of booze in the market?
Charlotte the Harlot
I would like a clear answer on this booze topic a macro for drunkard seems pretty useful, ill try asking if no one else does i guess.
Katari
G15 macros can play the new PvE PUG meta. Hurray.
Firebaall
Clear answer is:
If it requires you to be in front of your computer to work, it's fine.
If it does not require you to be in front of your computer to work, it is not fine.
There's not alot of brain cells required to understand this. So, no...your drinking BOT is not allowed. Get over it.
If it requires you to be in front of your computer to work, it's fine.
If it does not require you to be in front of your computer to work, it is not fine.
There's not alot of brain cells required to understand this. So, no...your drinking BOT is not allowed. Get over it.
FoxBat
Time you spend online not at the computer is time Anet server needs to keep track of you online and give you bandwith.
This is half the reason they go after bots, which consume more resources than your average human. The half they usually neglect to mention. Of course, generating a ton of instances from zoning to farm produces alot more strain than standing in town...
This is half the reason they go after bots, which consume more resources than your average human. The half they usually neglect to mention. Of course, generating a ton of instances from zoning to farm produces alot more strain than standing in town...
thasadar606
Quote:
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Originally Posted by VitisVinifera
wow that's pretty uncool to respond to a PM (which you initiated, and I replied to) by posting in a public thread.
|
excuse me dude but u had ur message box full!
and I did not want to offend you... sorry if I did
Jade
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Firebaall
Clear answer is:
If it requires you to be in front of your computer to work, it's fine. If it does not require you to be in front of your computer to work, it is not fine. There's not alot of brain cells required to understand this. So, no...your drinking BOT is not allowed. Get over it. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jade
On a side note about using macros to get the drunkard title. I'm not sure I understand why it'd be such a huge deal to do this. I mean, say I had my necro sitting in my gh getting drunk. I have a handy countdown timer set for 3 minutes so that I can click on the booze stack exactly every 3 minutes. I do this for 8 hours straight with no pee breaks, smoke breaks or food breaks. Would I get banned for "bot like activity"? Or would I be inturrupted every so often by someone verifying that I am indeed in front of my computer? Because if not, then how would they ever find out (or care for that matter) that you were using a macro to do the exact same thing?
I understand how using macros to farm critters would harm the economy, and in turn harm the gw community. But how would using a macro to click on a fricken stack of booze harm anyone or anything in the comunity? I mean aside from lowering the available amount of booze in the market? |
Pandora's box
Quote:
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Originally Posted by FoxBat
Time you spend online not at the computer is time Anet server needs to keep track of you online and give you bandwith.
This is half the reason they go after bots, which consume more resources than your average human. The half they usually neglect to mention. Of course, generating a ton of instances from zoning to farm produces alot more strain than standing in town... |
Omnidragon42
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jade
Thank you for clearing that up. Oh, and insinuating that we're a bunch of RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOin morons. But that's not what I asked.
I asked why it would hurt anything or anyone if I was sitting alone in my gh getting drunk. Whether it be by clicking my mouse every 3 minutes or by using a macro to click the mouse for me. Can someone without a superiority complex maybe put thier 2 cents in? |
But just because it does no harm, does that make it right?
Amy Awien
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Esan
Beware that AutoHotkey is easily detected ...
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Quote:
| ... and specifically targeted by Anet in their anti-botting checks, as is its slightly more well-known cousin AutoIt. |
It is illegal to collect information from a computer system and send that information to a remote system (without permission).
They can not use collect and such information about your system without asking and it's not even mentioned on their site, or anywhere.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Omnidragon42
But just because it does no harm, does that make it right?
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Esan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Amy Awien
Oh? How?
|
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Amy Awien
It is illegal to collect information from a computer system and send that information to a remote system (without permission).
They can not use collect and such information about your system without asking and it's not even mentioned on their site, or anywhere |
Also, I don't know which reality you live in, but in my reality not only can online game clients phone home with information about the client system, but it is commonplace. How do you think companies like Anet, Blizzard, Sony etc. detect bots in the first place?
Firebaall
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jade
Thank you for clearing that up. Oh, and insinuating that we're a bunch of RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOin morons. But that's not what I asked.
I asked why it would hurt anything or anyone if I was sitting alone in my gh getting drunk. Whether it be by clicking my mouse every 3 minutes or by using a macro to click the mouse for me. Can someone without a superiority complex maybe put thier 2 cents in? |
Explain how you deserve to get a title that others had to work at by being actively involved with the game?
Now explain how you think it's fair that you get to click a button and walk away for the hours it takes to get it?
I'll be waiting to see if those "brain cells" working for you.
VitisVinifera
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Firebaall
Little bit self-centred much?
Explain how you deserve to get a title that others had to work at by being actively involved with the game? Now explain how you think it's fair that you get to click a button and walk away for the hours it takes to get it? I'll be waiting to see if those "brain cells" working for you. |
Aerian_Skybane
Vitis,
A straight answer is not what you are going to get based upon the authoritative stance ANet is (and should) take on this issue. They have told you explicitly that they do not SUPPORT macros. Thus, if you get banned for using a macro, ANY macro, it is YOUR fault, and not "ZOMG ANET BANNED ME FOR SOMETHING THEY SAID WASNT ILLEGAL BUT THEY SAID THEY DIDNT SUPPORT IT!".
If they don't support it, then it can lead to punishment. If ANet starts outlining in detail which types of macros, where, when, how much, how little, and how long are allowed, then their ability to filter out major versus accidental abuse becomes limited.
If they keep it vague, on the front end it will seem vague, but it also allows them to take abuse situations into play. Someone who even spams an emote clearly using even individual text macros is subject to blocking while a regular user who has the /wave emote macroed and doesn't spam it should not be, even though they are using the same macros. Therefore it is in ANet's and the players' best interest to just follow common sense. And if your common sense doesn't line up with ANets, then you appeal the ban, and learn your lesson.
What I am saying, is that in an evolving world (of which GW is no matter how many times people want to insert their _____ opinions of GW's health in EVERY post blah blah cry me a river), especially in the intangible gaming world of GW, certain things are approached on a day to day basis. Macros are such a thing, as they can both increase a players enjoyment through natural gameplay, and to abuse gameplay through automation whether it be for personal gain or for the displeasure of other users.
That is all.
A straight answer is not what you are going to get based upon the authoritative stance ANet is (and should) take on this issue. They have told you explicitly that they do not SUPPORT macros. Thus, if you get banned for using a macro, ANY macro, it is YOUR fault, and not "ZOMG ANET BANNED ME FOR SOMETHING THEY SAID WASNT ILLEGAL BUT THEY SAID THEY DIDNT SUPPORT IT!".
If they don't support it, then it can lead to punishment. If ANet starts outlining in detail which types of macros, where, when, how much, how little, and how long are allowed, then their ability to filter out major versus accidental abuse becomes limited.
If they keep it vague, on the front end it will seem vague, but it also allows them to take abuse situations into play. Someone who even spams an emote clearly using even individual text macros is subject to blocking while a regular user who has the /wave emote macroed and doesn't spam it should not be, even though they are using the same macros. Therefore it is in ANet's and the players' best interest to just follow common sense. And if your common sense doesn't line up with ANets, then you appeal the ban, and learn your lesson.
What I am saying, is that in an evolving world (of which GW is no matter how many times people want to insert their _____ opinions of GW's health in EVERY post blah blah cry me a river), especially in the intangible gaming world of GW, certain things are approached on a day to day basis. Macros are such a thing, as they can both increase a players enjoyment through natural gameplay, and to abuse gameplay through automation whether it be for personal gain or for the displeasure of other users.
That is all.
VitisVinifera
aerian:
I totally respect that interpretation/point of view/stance. However, what's notable is that it's YOU, not ANET stating this. While that very well may be their philosophy on things, they have yet to say remotely as much.
Also, Anet has not explicitely told me anything. This thread is remarkably lacking in that aspect. I believe earlier in this thread someone posted a support reply or two stating that it is ok to bind commands to keys, which would be a macro.
I totally respect that interpretation/point of view/stance. However, what's notable is that it's YOU, not ANET stating this. While that very well may be their philosophy on things, they have yet to say remotely as much.
Also, Anet has not explicitely told me anything. This thread is remarkably lacking in that aspect. I believe earlier in this thread someone posted a support reply or two stating that it is ok to bind commands to keys, which would be a macro.
Phineas
You know when you have a stack of rare materials, and you want to sell them to the NPC vendor? I macro that because it's so laborious. I do not use a fancy mouse nor keyboard either. There is plenty of macro writing software out there that lets you create them and choose your own keyboard short-cut.
Angiolina
well, if a script that farm ss/lb point exist i would try it.
i have to do the same thing 80 (yes, 80) times to gain a title, cmon..........
i have to do the same thing 80 (yes, 80) times to gain a title, cmon..........
VitisVinifera
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Angiolina
well, if a script that farm ss/lb point exist i would try it.
i have to do the same thing 80 (yes, 80) times to gain a title, cmon.......... |
bigtime102
Quote:
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Originally Posted by thasadar606
not knowing I used the same macro UNTIMED, and i got disconnected (I am pretty sure my attempt was logged ) , after that I tried one with timing (I recorded my fastest button pressed chaining-so it was not the same timing) and retried..I got to 70 energy when I died...now...I requested a support answer...and silently wait for my BAN...I am screwed if that's ILLEGAL IN REAL TERMS!
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Jade
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Omnidragon42
It doesn't really hurt anyone, except in the sense that the people who got it manually put in more effort than you did, but they don't have to know that.
But just because it does no harm, does that make it right? |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Firebaall
Little bit self-centred much?
Explain how you deserve to get a title that others had to work at by being actively involved with the game? Now explain how you think it's fair that you get to click a button and walk away for the hours it takes to get it? I'll be waiting to see if those "brain cells" working for you. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by VitisVinifera
you beat me to it. Yeah, now that's arrogance. I suppose he is the self-ordained 'decider' who makes all decisions on behalf of Anet. Evidently, he lacks the brain cells to comprehend that we are asking Anet. This post is classic.
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flyinhigh
yeah, you basically got the same answer that i did from the GM's concerning macros, if you have to be infront of your computer for it, its not getting you banned. other than that statement, i dont think we are going to get them to be any clearer.
I have been working on a script that will set your flags for heros for HFFF farm, you still have to run outside but you press the key and it sets your flags, makes for much more consistent runs (cuz i suck at setting the flags in the right place) then it triggers the hero skills. then you collect the reward. i went from failing 3 out of every 5 to hardly failing any at all. ~1 in 50. and im still at my computer so i think its legit.
oh and i have been using autohotkey for a year, and haven't been banned (though there is a first for everything)
I have been working on a script that will set your flags for heros for HFFF farm, you still have to run outside but you press the key and it sets your flags, makes for much more consistent runs (cuz i suck at setting the flags in the right place) then it triggers the hero skills. then you collect the reward. i went from failing 3 out of every 5 to hardly failing any at all. ~1 in 50. and im still at my computer so i think its legit.
oh and i have been using autohotkey for a year, and haven't been banned (though there is a first for everything)
Nanood
<3 my G15 but i'm always participating whether a macro is running or not. I haven't invented one that plays the game for me and I can't say that I'd be inclined to use one anyway. I play the game cause I love the game....
Omnidragon42
I think the basic consensus is that "assist scripts" which take care of small actions (/resign, or even an autotyper for selling things) are fine, while "bot scripts" which fully automate the game (or certain aspects of it) are not.
What do you guys think of a script that changes weapon sets for you? (ex. Aegis auto-swaps to a 20% Enchantments, 20% recharge set, some spells cast on a 40/40 set and some spells on a different set, with you only pressing the skill button)
What do you guys think of a script that changes weapon sets for you? (ex. Aegis auto-swaps to a 20% Enchantments, 20% recharge set, some spells cast on a 40/40 set and some spells on a different set, with you only pressing the skill button)
flyinhigh
I think your still playing the game, and that you are still there, you can do that exact thing without a macro, all you have to do is hit one of the F1/F2/F3/F4 keys slightly before you hit the skill button. key bind just makes it easier.
fog_of_redoubt
It sure would be helpful to actually have a G15 thread that was astually about the G15.
Seems that there are a few of us here. I for one have not done much with mine other that auto pick up of loot and /resign (hint: dont put it next to the auto pickup macro). I would love to see a collection of other macros, and also some LCD apps.
Seems that there are a few of us here. I for one have not done much with mine other that auto pick up of loot and /resign (hint: dont put it next to the auto pickup macro). I would love to see a collection of other macros, and also some LCD apps.
bigtime102
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Esan
PM me if you want specifics, but the gist is that it is trivial to tell when an event such as a mouse click or key press is synthetic and when it comes from actual user action.
Who said anything about sending information about the system to Anet. The client simply has to detect that it is getting synthetic events and tell that to the server. Thus, the only info the server receives is what has directly been input into the client, either by a human or by a script generating events. AutoIt and AutoHotkey, being basically the same code base, have a characteristic signature. Also, I don't know which reality you live in, but in my reality not only can online game clients phone home with information about the client system, but it is commonplace. How do you think companies like Anet, Blizzard, Sony etc. detect bots in the first place? |
Esan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigtime102
The same way Bush finds terrorists, he taps your phone calls...
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Firebaall
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jade
Again, please read the post before responding. I never once said I deserved a title without being actively involved in the game. Nor did I say that it was fair that one could do so. Others here are just trying to figure out what we can and can't do with the g15 keyboard macros and I don't see you calling down thier brain cell count. |
Backtrack... you ask in one stance how it would harm anybody else in the game if you just macroed yourself a title (drunk), then in the next heart beat you ignore my direct line of questioning to explain how you think it could be fair. Instead of actually answering or contributing, you cry about being "insulted".
If you quote or address me directly, bring some sort of cohesion to your thought process.
thasadar606
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigtime102
The same way Bush finds terrorists, he taps your phone calls...
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it's sick.....INVADING PRIVACY: THIS IS IT!
ANET is not going to look trough your porn mate....THEY MADE THE GAME....it's build SO THAT IT LETS LOGS:
example
03-29-2008 03:21 AM You drank 745687356817356 Ale in 1 minute
03-29-2008 03:25 AM You beat Abaddon 6 times in HM in 3 minutes
03-29-2008 03:27 AM And ran through the underworld without dieing (so your survivor title is intact)
SAY STOP WHEN YOU GET THE POINT!
sorry but my bitterness is not aimed at you folks...the decent guys
jimme
Still, I think this thread is about posting useful macro's not about how Anet 'looks trough your porn' ..