Guild Wars, you are still the most skilled "mmo"

Wretchman Drake

Wretchman Drake

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

Charr Carvings and [BeeR]

So I have not played Guild Wars for a few months now, got myself a mage lvl 70 on WoW. The PvP in that game is just horrendous. I don't mind going out with my guildies killing lower lvls for fun (trust me, there's a Luxon/Kurzick rivalry in WoW but 100x worse), but they do have I guess "random arenas" where there's an exact copy of AB, a 10v10 capture the flag, or a 40v40, etc.

Anyways... I can't help but stress enough dimwits in WoW actually try to kill someone who is carrying the flag in a capture the flag match, but nobody goes for the healer. My god I remember when there was a time even the biggest noob build players in Random Arenas at least knew to go for the healers. I'm the only one on my WoW teams to actually interupt the healer mesmer style and keep pressure on them, but sometimes one person isn't enough. Not to also mention healing is a joke in WoW, slow casting, one tank, "i have so much mana i am a 1 click heal other noob" basically. I tried healing in there, but monking in GW was just so much more fun and challenging, even in missions.

I introduced my guild to spiking, and suprisingly, this tactic is unheard of in WoW, since there are so many classes and not alot of the same group up often. So with my Mage (elementalist, except we actually ARE the biggest DPS in the game for the most part) I shown them the ol' 1,2,3 spike and I can't believe such a silly tactic just annihalites people in WoW. It's not even a very liable tactic in GW anymore, at least nowadays, and we are just using simple instant cast spells, but it just kind of suprises me these WoW players have never encountered a spike. So it always reminds me of good old GW when we spike em up.

I guess my question is.. Do people still play this game PvP wise? Or are the elitists left to fight amongst themselves in HA while all the rest left somewhere else?

netniwk

netniwk

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

Bellgium

W/E

The Arena's(2v24,4v4) teams are quitte coördinated But Av is indeed one big noobfest.But realy,isn't that the same thing going on in Ab(and atleast you can chose four of your team memers there.)?

Wretchman Drake

Wretchman Drake

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

Charr Carvings and [BeeR]

You can select groups to go with as well, but while you can't find others willing to PvP, its a pain to deal with idiots who suck at PvP in a PvE grind game

Bryant Again

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

Hm. Seems like your opinion has changed.

That aside, my experiences in PvP in both games has been somewhat similar, although I haven't gotten much of a taste in higher end GW PvP. I've experienced plenty of idiots in RA and AB that don't listen to anything as often as I have in battlegrounds.

That aside, I don't play PvP in GW anymore because it's no longer as fulfilling.

Wretchman Drake

Wretchman Drake

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

Charr Carvings and [BeeR]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Hm. Seems like your opinion has changed
I couldn't disrespect "old faithful" in the end.

Kattar

Kattar

EXCESSIVE FLUTTERCUSSING

Join Date: Mar 2007

SMS (lolgw2placeholder)

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Hm. Seems like your opinion has changed.
Heh, thanks for finding that link, Bryant. I was just about to look for that.

But yeah, to answer your question there are people on both sides of the fench. Getting into HA can be difficult unless your guild does it, or you have friends that will let a "low level noob" into a group. People do still PvP though in other areas. A lot of people are more into AB now it seems - I know I am just for the faction. So it's kinda mixed overall. But, again, that's just my opinion.

ShadowsRequiem

ShadowsRequiem

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Inde is Smoking [Hawt] *ToA*

W/E

So you would rather kill lower lvl players then actually play ppl on a level playing field?

weird.

madman mick

madman mick

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Mar 2006

W/Mo

Its funny i come across this message after finally ditching my own level 70 mage to go back to guild wars. I used to play guild wars before, and i enjoyed the pvp, but i went to WoW because there wasnt enough content in GW. But now i have gone back to GW because the pvp in WoW stinks. The arena, is dominated by healers and MS warriors or Sl/Sl locks. The rest of the classes, like mage, are just left to struggle. The best thing about Guild Wars is the limitation on the skills, and the Diversity of builds. With WoW, you pick your talents, stick with them, and that is your build. Whereas with GW, you pick your build, if you get your ass kicked, you change, then kick some ass, then change it again, til you have a super awesome build, then you go and make a new one.

AS for the BG's, they are fun, but they are full of noobs and Afker's. I know alot of bad things are said about AB and RA, but trust me, it could be worse. In WoW, if your team stinks, you will suck as some classes just cant be beaten solo.

There is so much more shit that is wrong with WoW that Blizzard just cant be bothered to fix, but i wont get into. The fact is, GW is the more sophisticated game that actually takes skill to play. I just hope my crappy R3 Title wont hold me back from getting some decent pvp.

CougarTheTall

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2006

Dallas, TX

The Blood Spikers

N/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Hm. Seems like your opinion has changed.

That aside, my experiences in PvP in both games has been somewhat similar, although I haven't gotten much of a taste in higher end GW PvP. I've experienced plenty of idiots in RA and AB that don't listen to anything as often as I have in battlegrounds.

That aside, I don't play PvP in GW anymore because it's no longer as fulfilling.
Pwnededed? I think so.

netniwk

netniwk

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

Bellgium

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by CougarTheTall
Pwnededed? I think so.
because changing your opinion is higly immoral,rite?

Zinger314

Zinger314

Debbie Downer

Join Date: May 2006

N/Me

So, you meet bad players in WoW, and your argument is that GW players are "less bad."

Right.

Comparing scrub PvP in WoW with scrub PvP in GW is ludicrious.

Zeek Aran

Zeek Aran

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Earth, sadly

BORK

A/

Oh great Zinger, post your views on WoW PvP!

Balan Makki

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2007

PvP in WoW is actually very good if Itemization did not completely Bork it. Itemization makes WoW pvp so unbearable it's surprising that there's even a comparison.

Early in WoW's life, just before and during the 1st Tier release, PvP was actually balanced and fun. Now, because it's so Stat Dependent/Unbalanced it's really hard for average players to figure out what works and what does not; most players just grind for the +Stat gear and out Stat their opponent. Spikes in WoW are called Assist Trains, same concept, just handled less effectively.

It appears you had not quite played WoW much when you posted your first statement, welcome to the obvious truth. In early PvP lvl 19, 29 .. . WoW seems a bit more wholesome.

CougarTheTall

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2006

Dallas, TX

The Blood Spikers

N/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by netniwk
because changing your opinion is higly immoral,rite?
Immoral? No. Hypocritical? Yes.

nebuchanezzar

nebuchanezzar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

功夫之王

N/

I find it ironically funny that WoW started as a purely PvE based game and has evolved more forms of pvp for its audience whereas GW started out as an entirely PvP oriented game and has mutated into a much more PvE driven machine....
Most of my RL friends are all WoW fanatics and keep wondering when I will convert. As more and more PvP options open up they seem to think that I will eventually switch.

*edit*
Hypocrisy is the act of condemning another person, where the stated basis for the criticism is the breach of a rule which also applies to the critic and of which the critic is in breach to a similar or greater extent.
That is not the same as changing your mind or reassessing your viewpoints at all.....good lord people, relax. To be unchanging is to be dead or just as well dead.
Oh and hypocrisy is immoral, it's called blatant lying.

netniwk

netniwk

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

Bellgium

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by CougarTheTall
Immoral? No. Hypocritical? Yes.
What is so hypocritical about changing your mind?

Bryant Again

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeek Aran
Oh great Zinger, post your views on WoW PvP!
Sup Zeek, may I?

I made this comparison a while ago, and it's one of the things between WoW and GW that I like to think holds water the most: WoW - Great PvE, meh PvP. GW - Great PvP, meh PvE. Both succeed vastly in one aspect, but both do not deliver in the other. And of course there are those that prefer WoW's PvP just as much as there are those that prefer GW's PvE. But nonetheless, it's still comparing a PvE focused game to a PvP focused game.

And I will agree that yes, both of them have their share of idiots, both PvE and PvP. You can't dodge 'em.

~ Dan ~

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2006

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake
Do people still play this game PvP wise?
No, i've moved on.

bhavv

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

Yes GW is the most skilled mmo, because it is the MMO with the most skills.

Funny that isnt it?

~ Dan ~

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2006

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavv
Yes GW is the most skilled mmo, because it is the MMO with the most skills.

Funny that isnt it?
Quality not quantity. It' has better PvP than other mmo's because of pre-protting etc. Takes more skill than to hit a health potion.

lyra_song

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavv
Yes GW is the most skilled mmo, because it is the MMO with the most skills.

Funny that isnt it?
And how many skills can you bring?

Mordakai

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-the-noob
Quality not quantity. It' has better PvP than other mmo's because of pre-protting etc. Takes more skill than to hit a health potion.
Wait, can't you only do that once in awhile? You can't spam health potions, that would be totally broken.

~ Dan ~

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2006

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
Wait, can't you only do that once in awhile? You can't spam health potions, that would be totally broken.
Whilst waiting on another health potion, you could probably hit the mana potion and watch that bar fly up

zwitterion

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

Iowa. Or South Australia. Depending.

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
WoW - Great PvE ... GW - meh PvE
My WoW friends have tried for years to convert me with this argument for years. I wholeheartedly believed them too - till I tried the game. By the end of my trial account there I wasn't even considering considering getting a subscription and just ended up with a bitter taste in my mouth from having wasted a weekend of my life... everything I saw in that game was a thin veneer of content hastily pasted on a mountain of mind numbing repetition. The mechanic is so transparent it feels like a scam; space your morsels of actual game content out between countless quests and level requirements that demand a player painstakingly repeat a task X number of times - a task which you then make not difficult but slow, meaning that a player can't make it go by any faster than the game designers want them to... Then make them pay for the time they spend!

My quest log as I was logging off the thing for the last time contained about 7 quests of the form "[monster] killed: 0/19", and another 4 or 5 that read "[monster drops] collected: 0/6", which I calculated at the rate my 4 or so spells were capable of killing a monster (player strategy had very little to do with it), would have kept me occupied in a brain melting routine of rightclick-3-2-1... for another four and a half hours before I was led to the next skill / area. I hear there is some cooler stuff going on at the end of the game? I guess I don't care if I have to get through that kind of workload to get to it.

So I don't know, it is a more persistent world, no doubt, and has a crafting system, and people do confuse it with real life on occasion, none of which is easy to find in guild wars - but call it a better game, of any sort, and I'll have to strongly disagree. (rant over. sorry.)

netniwk

netniwk

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

Bellgium

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by zwitterion
My WoW friends have tried for years to convert me with this argument for years. I wholeheartedly believed them too - till I tried the game. By the end of my trial account there I wasn't even considering considering getting a subscription and just ended up with a bitter taste in my mouth from having wasted a weekend of my life... everything I saw in that game was a thin veneer of content hastily pasted on a mountain of mind numbing repetition. The mechanic is so transparent it feels like a scam; space your morsels of actual game content out between countless quests and level requirements that demand a player painstakingly repeat a task X number of times - a task which you then make not difficult but slow, meaning that a player can't make it go by any faster than the game designers want them to... Then make them pay for the time they spend!

My quest log as I was logging off the thing for the last time contained about 7 quests of the form "[monster] killed: 0/19", and another 4 or 5 that read "[monster drops] collected: 0/6", which I calculated at the rate my 4 or so spells were capable of killing a monster (player strategy had very little to do with it), would have kept me occupied in a brain melting routine of rightclick-3-2-1... for another four and a half hours before I was led to the next skill / area. I hear there is some cooler stuff going on at the end of the game? I guess I don't care if I have to get through that kind of workload to get to it.

So I don't know, it is a more persistent world, no doubt, and has a crafting system, and people do confuse it with real life on occasion, none of which is easy to find in guild wars - but call it a better game, of any sort, and I'll have to strongly disagree. (rant over. sorry.)
You have hardly seen any PvE in Wow when you only did the beginers quest's and never raided.
but raiding sucks too,so more power to you

Longasc

Longasc

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

I prefer and like GW PvE over all other options, despite ANet's efforts to turn it into a rather dumbed down WoWlike grind MMO.

I hope they do not continue this path, even the repetitive quests in WoW are better than wurming the same area till you are done with the title. :P

Nevin

Nevin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinger314
So, you meet bad players in WoW, and your argument is that GW players are "less bad."

Right.

Comparing scrub PvP in WoW with scrub PvP in GW is ludicrious.
Why don't you go back to the horde Zinger! PSSSSSSH

Seriously though, WoW vs GW topics are dead. Please stop making threads about the rivalry! They're both games, both fun in their own way, people play them for different reasons. If theres any debate open for actual critical thought, its that Blizzard has become a developer company that caters to the casual rather then the hardcore.

Gattocheese

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2007

New Mexico

GWEN

Still waiting for the unrealist to say "OMG WTF its not an MMO!".

Zeek Aran

Zeek Aran

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Earth, sadly

BORK

A/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gattocheese
Still waiting for the unrealist to say "OMG WTF its not an MMO!".
Hence the quotation marks.

~ Dan ~

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2006

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gattocheese
Still waiting for the unrealist to say "OMG WTF its not an MMO!".
I don't see why people start crying when someone mentions a different abbreviation tbh. It's still the same dam game.

Bryant Again

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-the-noob
I don't see why people start crying when someone mentions a different abbreviation tbh. It's still the same dam game.
It's done for the same reason that you call Oblivion an RPG and not an FPS, or why you don't call Counter-Strike and Team Fortress 2 MMO's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zwitterion
So I don't know, it is a more persistent world, no doubt, and has a crafting system, and people do confuse it with real life on occasion, none of which is easy to find in guild wars - but call it a better game, of any sort, and I'll have to strongly disagree. (rant over. sorry.)
Two parts of this I'll comment on and then I'm done derailing this thread off-topic. First: See this? People can get lost in Guild Wars, too (that's not me, btw). Second: It ain't for everyone, and it's hard to be so original with quests when there's billions of them. Nonetheless it's different strokes for different folks, but WoW has much more RPG flare than GW does, I'll say that much.

fowlero

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

England, UK

We Are The One And Only [rR]

A little off topic, but i'm very inexperienced in pvp outside of GW (and not brilliantly in it lol) and i have a few questions.

Do other MMO (call GW what you like) games have similar things as the party bar and T-targetting? If not i'm sure this is one of the brilliant factors of GW's pvp, alongside more balanced play than other MMO's.

Also does spiking exist in other games?

When i've seen friends playing other MMO's pvp, everything just looks so random. It looks like guild wars AB, run round til you find something to kill and maybe chuck in a flag or two.

Biostem

Biostem

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Oct 2007

My main draw for GW and reason I stray away from WoW is the way the game presents itself.

For one thing, you practically need 3rd party add-ons to play WoW, and if you don't have them, everything is just a disorganized mess w/ you being at a disadvantage over players w/ all the mods. GW, OTOH, puts all players on a level playing field.

Secondly, the whole "you are your gear" thing is so true in WoW it makes me sick. Unless I have the L33T weapon/item/equipment, I am at a severe disadvantage in PvP, and it requires a significant investment in time to get said stuff. In GW, I can get max damage/armor stuff for 0 gold if I really wanted to. I can also rest assured that my max armor is just as good as some hardcore gamer's armor.

It's just the general "have's vs have-not's" that annoys me. Oh, and the 1990's-era graphics in WoW - that's like a slap in the face for a fee-based game.

Curse You

Curse You

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

South Pole

The Magus Order

N/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balan Makki
It appears you had not quite played WoW much when you posted your first statement, welcome to the obvious truth. In early PvP lvl 19, 29 .. . WoW seems a bit more wholesome.
I don't think you read the OP... Last I checked, level 70 is the highest level in WoW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake
So I have not played Guild Wars for a few months now, got myself a mage lvl 70 on WoW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biostem
It's just the general "have's vs have-not's" that annoys me. Oh, and the 1990's-era graphics in WoW - that's like a slap in the face for a fee-based game.
It's an "art style" or so they say.

I say that's just an excuse for them to avoid spending the time to upgrade. I've seen some of the so called "awesome graphics" weapons in WoW, and frankly they don't look anything special.

Bryant Again

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biostem
For one thing, you practically need 3rd party add-ons to play WoW, and if you don't have them, everything is just a disorganized mess w/ you being at a disadvantage over players w/ all the mods. GW, OTOH, puts all players on a level playing field.
It's much more the micros that matter. All of my mods are for PvE and I do just fine in PvP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curse You
I say that's just an excuse for them to avoid spending the time to upgrade. I've seen some of the so called "awesome graphics" weapons in WoW, and frankly they don't look anything special.
Blizzard has a very good history of keeping their games as accessible as possible, with WCIII being the only exception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curse You
I don't think you read the OP... Last I checked, level 70 is the highest level in WoW.
He's saying PvP at those levels are where it's most "balanced" because there's no gear progression, to which I'd disagree. 49 is probably the most balanced level bracket. 70 is gettin' there. And OH SHI 10mil!

Curse You

Curse You

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

South Pole

The Magus Order

N/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
And OH SHI 10mil!
I wonder how many of them are bot/gold farmers...

Bryant Again

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curse You
I wonder how many of them are bot/gold farmers...
There's only so many because it's so popular ^ ^

Darkobra

Darkobra

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Scotland

Type like an idiot, I'll treat you like an idiot

E/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curse You
I wonder how many of them are bot/gold farmers...
I wonder the exact same thing with Guild Wars.

Shayne Hawke

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

The only thing I like about PvP comes from non-competitive PvP, because it's the only place where you can count on some non-meta builds to pop up, some which are easy to deal with, and some less-so. I usually only play meta builds, and I still find occasions where I have to change my strategy to beat my opponent.

Past that, I can't find anything good about PvP. That's why I'm a PvE player.

bhavv

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

Wow PVE > GW PVE.

Getting better gear drops makes it a lot more rewarding then having max gear from the start.

Its like an 'OMG I got an uber l33t drop' feeling that long wears out in GW once you have a max weapon.

I actually enjoy the good old system of bigger baddies, better loot as opposed to just getting different skin variants of the same item.

And other then the hunting and the drops, Its nice to have a huge persistant world to explore. Ok the graphics arent great, but a great game doesnt need the latest graphics to be fun.

Now comparisons put aside, I wonder why Anet are copying WoW for GW2.