Why does everyone seem to say this when it comes to warriors and their weapons? Even though people still use the Vamp/Elemental/Furious mods for swapping, sundering is not even bad.
I use sundering and I see a huge difference in the damage I do. Everyone treats sundering like its the noobiest thing ever since HH wars.
Remember, dont use Sundering!
Adam of Tyria
Biostem
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Originally Posted by Adam of Tyria
Why does everyone seem to say this when it comes to warriors and their weapons? Even though people still use the Vamp/Elemental/Furious mods for swapping, sundering is not even bad.
I use sundering and I see a huge difference in the damage I do. Everyone treats sundering like its the noobiest thing ever since HH wars. Sundering means you treat hits vs an enemy like they have less armor, or something to that effect. Generally, though, enemies have much less armor vs some or all elemental damage, which yields even more of a damage increase if used correctly, or vampiric mods simply ignore armor all together and just steal health. Other options, like furious help to generate adrenaline more quickly, which can be used to fire off those attack skills which are the real big hitters.
Generally, I say go with what you find that works, so if you like your sundering weapon, then more power to you...
I use sundering and I see a huge difference in the damage I do. Everyone treats sundering like its the noobiest thing ever since HH wars. Sundering means you treat hits vs an enemy like they have less armor, or something to that effect. Generally, though, enemies have much less armor vs some or all elemental damage, which yields even more of a damage increase if used correctly, or vampiric mods simply ignore armor all together and just steal health. Other options, like furious help to generate adrenaline more quickly, which can be used to fire off those attack skills which are the real big hitters.
Generally, I say go with what you find that works, so if you like your sundering weapon, then more power to you...
Adam of Tyria
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biostem
Sundering means you treat hits vs an enemy like they have less armor, or something to that effect. Generally, though, enemies have much less armor vs some or all elemental damage, which yields even more of a damage increase if used correctly, or vampiric mods simply ignore armor all together and just steal health. Other options, like furious help to generate adrenaline more quickly, which can be used to fire off those attack skills which are the real big hitters.
Generally, I say go with what you find that works, so if you like your sundering weapon, then more power to you... Sure I swap my weapons to elemental when fighting enemies with weakness to elemental damage, and Zealous when running shock axe or something like that and need energy. It just seems like everyone says Sundering = Fail.
Generally, I say go with what you find that works, so if you like your sundering weapon, then more power to you... Sure I swap my weapons to elemental when fighting enemies with weakness to elemental damage, and Zealous when running shock axe or something like that and need energy. It just seems like everyone says Sundering = Fail.
Dodo The Extinct
Vampiric gives more DPS. Sundering gives you higher crits. Vamp is better overall.
A good warrior swaps to the appropriate weapon whenever it is needed. Bad warriors don't take full advantage of their weapon slots, and therefore do less damage.
A good warrior swaps to the appropriate weapon whenever it is needed. Bad warriors don't take full advantage of their weapon slots, and therefore do less damage.
blue.rellik
Sundering is used with Spears, axes, scythes and hammers when you're going for the spike. Otherwise you use Vampiric for the added pressure (or maybe zealous for scythes)
DarkNecrid
Sundering works 1/5th of the time for the same amount of damage difference that Vamp adds to your damage 100% of the time.
Savio
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Originally Posted by Adam of Tyria
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Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
Sundering works 1/5th of the time for the same amount of damage difference that Vamp adds to your damage 100% of the time.
Wrong.
Dr Strangelove
Sundering is good in PvP if you want big crits to murder people. Vamp is good if you just want straight damage.
Kyrein
sundering owns with crit sins
ejp
build on furious on swap for spike people are just bad
Feurin Longcastle
The main reason you'll hear naysaying on Sundering is that a lot of people will parrot what others say, especially if it's the perceived "elite" stance. Most can't justify why they make the decision they do. (Which is why you'll hear "Never use Sundering! Never use Superior Runes!" etc)
Sundering has it's place. Test it with the Master of Damage, it beats Furious (tested with simple +damage adrenal skills) and comes slightly behind vamp, though in one of my tests it came out ahead. If you can't be bothered to constantly swap weapons and dislike the fact that your HP is leaking slowly, sundering is your best bet. In PvP sundercrits are typically favoured over constant DPS. It's not the worst choice by any means.
JR
Vamp is higher DPS, which is really what the Warrior class is about. I don't see a reason to take any other prefix if you are bothered about doing your job properly.
Sundering crits are nice, but DPS is the money.
Savio
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Originally Posted by ejp
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Originally Posted by Feurin Longcastle
The main reason you'll hear naysaying on Sundering is that a lot of people will parrot what others say, especially if it's the perceived "elite" stance. Most can't justify why they make the decision they do. (Which is why you'll hear "Never use Sundering! Never use Superior Runes!" etc)
Well, it only took 2+ years to get to the point where people would accept that vampiric is better than 10/10 sundering; unfortunately, sundering was buffed during that time, among other things.
Div
So this is another one of those dumb sundering vs vamp debates? Search is your friend.
i Valinor
i think most warriors should have an elemental weapon, a sundering and a vamp weapon. get used to having to swap and just keep at it, i still space out time to time and wounding why im hitting a ranger with an elem mod'd weapon.
blue.rellik
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Originally Posted by Kyrein
sundering owns with crit sins
Sundering is crap with sins
zling
sin crit a lot but has lower crit dmg. sins also double strike a lot, which is where vamp shines most...
the only weapon I use sundering on is the scythe, as even 1 trigger out of 5, aka 20% with high scythe dmg justifies it. for the weapons vamp is just superior by far...
The Way Out
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Originally Posted by blue.rellik
Sundering is crap with sins
It really is! lol...
kobey
sundering makes a sword looks nice :P
efficiency wise, vamp > sundering but for some reasons, i use sundering for my swords :P Taurucis
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Originally Posted by Dodo The Extinct
Vampiric gives more DPS. Sundering gives you higher crits. Vamp is better overall.
A good warrior swaps to the appropriate weapon whenever it is needed. Bad warriors don't take full advantage of their weapon slots, and therefore do less damage. What is this, World of Warcrack where gear determines how good a player you are? IMO it's a matter of personal preference. I mostly use greens, and for some odd reason they all seem to be Sundering. I still managed to complete the campaigns and EotN. I'm sure there's people out there who think Furious is best, also some who think Ebon is best... What's best for you might not be best for everyone else.
The Way Out
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
What is this, World of Warcrack where gear determines how good a player you are?
IMO it's a matter of personal preference. I mostly use greens, and for some odd reason they all seem to be Sundering. I still managed to complete the campaigns and EotN. I'm sure there's people out there who think Furious is best, also some who think Ebon is best... What's best for you might not be best for everyone else. From a standpoint of statistics... we have already determined that vampiric stomps sundering over and over again.
nebuchanezzar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam of Tyria
I use sundering and I see a huge difference in the damage I do.
Please show me this huge difference. The only place my tests have ever seen a difference is with criticals. It's negligible on any regular attack I have tried. The only reason to use sundering is if your afraid of the 2 health per second loss from vampiric. Even when Sundering got buffed to 20/20 it still is not as effective as Vampiric for DPS as mentioned by JR.
Even in Feurin Longcastle tests only ONE TIME did Sundering outperform Vampiric for DPS. Furious is meh and should have gotten the same buff as Sundering to 20% imo but even then it would not be ideal because it adds no damage, just helps with adren build up. Try for yourself on the Master of Damage just auto-attacking with Sundering and Vampiric and Vampiric wins out almost all the time. Then try charging up on the adjacents and unloading adren spikes with both Sundering and Vampiric. Also consider that just an elemental modded weapon basically acts like a Sundering 100%/-20AL vs warriors by hitting them at 80AL ALWAYS and Sundering just makes less and less sense. Just my 2c but try doing some calculations http://www.guildwarsguru.com/calculators/guru_armor.php with Ensigns damage calculator and use the Master of Damage. I think you will see that you are tricking yourself into believing your damage output is so substantially higher with Sundering. Either way, play what ever you want. GL and HF.
Washi
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
I'm sure there's people out there who think Furious is best, also some who think Ebon is best... What's best for you might not be best for everyone else.
Bolded for emphasis. It's not about what you think is best. With armor you can say fow is best and I can disagree cause it's about taste. But with mods its about numbers. Higher damage is better than lower damage, pretty simple.
Teutonic Paladin
It doesn't matter if people think _________ is best. If _________ ISN'T best, then they're wrong, this isn't a matter of opinion.
Taurucis
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Originally Posted by The Way Out
From a standpoint of statistics... we have already determined that vampiric stomps sundering over and over again.
A damage difference of about 6 isn't what I'd call "stomps."
I prefer spike damage, TBH.
thor hammerbane
You will not see a huge difference in damage with sundering. Maybe, 5-10 dmg. I personally use furious. I feel that it is much more effective. After all, it's the warriors skill that kill the enemy, not just higher than average regular hits.
The Way Out
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
A damage difference of about 6 isn't what I'd call "stomps."
I prefer spike damage, TBH. You have to rely on crits as opposed to constant damage... that translates roughly into stomps. Any player worth their rank knows this already. There are statistics, which are quoted all around this forum, showing you it already. Do you know something that we all don't know?
Feurin Longcastle
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Originally Posted by thor hammerbane
You will not see a huge difference in damage with sundering. Maybe, 5-10 dmg. I personally use furious. I feel that it is much more effective. After all, it's the warriors skill that kill the enemy, not just higher than average regular hits.
Actually, I tested this (using Cleave and Executioner's Strike). Sundering and vamp both had higher damage dealt at the 3 min mark. If I do the tests again I'll keep screen caps, as this topic invariably keeps coming up.
Taurucis
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Originally Posted by The Way Out
You have to rely on crits as opposed to constant damage... that translates roughly into stomps. Any player worth their rank knows this already. There are statistics, which are quoted all around this forum, showing you it already. Do you know something that we all don't know?
Why yes, I do. I know that I'm not a gear elitist fresh from World of Warcrack. To be honest, I prefer the Elemental sword hilts to the others.
netniwk
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
Why yes, I do. I know that I'm not a gear elitist fresh from World of Warcrack. To be honest, I prefer the Elemental sword hilts to the others.
The fact that you call it elitism doesn't make sundering any better.
JR
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
What is this, World of Warcrack where gear determines how good a player you are?
IMO it's a matter of personal preference. I mostly use greens, and for some odd reason they all seem to be Sundering. I still managed to complete the campaigns and EotN. I'm sure there's people out there who think Furious is best, also some who think Ebon is best... What's best for you might not be best for everyone else. Some people don't just care about 'getting by', they might actually want to max their output and efficiency.
Jetdoc
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Originally Posted by Savio
Furious is bad.
Furious is good on a spear when you're building up adrenaline to go in for the spike. Otherwise, it's bad.
Taurucis
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Originally Posted by JR
Some people don't just care about 'getting by', they might actually want to max their output and efficiency.
Weren't those people camping in Heroes' Ascent trash talking everyone who isn't in their elite little gathering? Don't tell me they migrated to PvE...
The Meth
Vamp has higher average DPS while Sundering has the possibility of a higher spike damage.
Those are the cold hard facts Can we stop this debate now?
kosh
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Originally Posted by Kyrein
sundering owns with crit sins
im sorry what?
i couldnt hear yall from all those +1 +3 energy numbers popping out. but hey we all know that ppl carry sins for their awesome dps with daggers. rofl.
netniwk
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
Weren't those people camping in Heroes' Ascent trash talking everyone who isn't in their elite little gathering? Don't tell me they migrated to PvE...
Are they forcing anything on you?no?
move along.
deluxe
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
Weren't those people camping in Heroes' Ascent trash talking everyone who isn't in their elite little gathering? Don't tell me they migrated to PvE...
I sense much frustration in this one...
Diddy bow
You wont let this one die will you?
 Sundering sucks ktnxbye Taurucis
If you vampiric weapon worshipping people don't stop saying how much Sundering sucks, Anet's going to buff it =)
I repeat, it's a matter of preference.
The Meth
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Originally Posted by Kyrein
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i couldnt hear yall from all those +1 +3 energy numbers popping out.
but hey we all know that ppl carry sins for their awesome dps with daggers.
rofl. I think by critical sins Kyrein means sins who use a scythe. Obviously daggers suck with sundering, even when the sundering triggers you deal barely more damage then vampiric. Maybe less, I'm throwing numbers around my head.
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
If you vampiric weapon worshipping people don't stop saying how much Sundering sucks, Anet's going to buff it =)
Someone start a thread about how much +1 to skill attribute (20%) sucks so this can happen to them
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