Game Update 4/1/08 (read that date carefully)

But the true question is: Why do you care? Of course UB is making things less of a challenge. But it also makes it repetitive and boring (IMHO). I have had no problems getting in groups with my ranger, as a ranger.

I have yet to see such a deep impact of the UB teams yet. And don't start on the economic bullcrap (not targeting you Bryant here). I have played since beta, been in guilds, done everything (except GWEN is taking me a while... busy life right now), and never has anything in the market messed with my playing of the game.

But anyways, this thread is seriously lacking cats.

And Olim, you just owned my caption lmao.

Wow, a bad joke, with no premise and absolutely no payoff.

This thread = "Teh Fail"



You failed, BIG TIME!

Why do I care? I care about the integrity of the game and its players.

When people bring UB on their bar thinking it's "skilled" or "the only way to do it right," that doesn't really set a good mindset.

It also eliminates the need to essentially get better at the game. Doing so was what was the Guild Wars experience: Learning what works, what doesn't, what works with what, what sucks with what - you don't get that in Ursanway. Never in the game has it been encouraged to have more of the same build: If you weren't balanced, you weren't the most effective - now that isn't so.

I respect people playing how they want to just as long as they know what they're doing. If you play Oblivion on the easiest setting, you know that the game's handicapped for you. You know that you're really not experiencing the challenges set before you, hence why you look to improve. People may not pick this up with UB.

Regards to the "deep impact" of it: Awhile ago one of the largest points of defense made by pro-UBers was how they weren't seeing DoA flooded with "LFG URSAN" spam. Well, go there now. Hopefully that'll be the farthest it'll extend.

Omg this scared the crap out of me :x
Somehow I read 1 of February xP

Bryant, do you actually go to post and towns like ToA? I agree there are UB group, but, at the same time, there also if not more than non-UB group in the same place.

UB group thrives in places where there are few people. Like DoA.

If you go to Umbral Grotto to do Duncan HM, you will yet see again the "class discrimination" in its full force by the meta-build of fabulous five (monk, warrior, ele, necro, ranger).

Visit ToA too sometimes, for UW and FoW runs, all kinds of group exist in there. You would be surprised how strong the "meta-build" still exist in there. As a ritualist, and sometimes playing dervish and paragon, it is always hard to find group if you are not healer, bonder, BR/BIP, SS, nuker, tank, barrage.

I even have a met a dervish in ToA, who keeps saying "SS looking for group", just to get in.

Bryant, I really like you to quantify when you speak for "everyone".

Got to regen energy.

So you want to control how OTHERS play. Get over it Napoleon.

The issue of how much Ursan needs to die is not a laughing matter. Easy win buttons like that are poison for a game like this.

Haha, I did too

If you don't like Ursan don't use it, if you like it then go have fun with it.

/close yet another UB rant thread its totally pointless

Point out something in PvE that wasn't already an easy win.

I don't think you understand.

If you don't want to play a heal/prot monk, you don't have to, but you'll be kicked from groups, and forced to play with H/H (regardless of whether you think they're better than PuG or not is not a point btw), I don't want to be kicked from groups because I don't want to play this overpowered piece o' shit.

When GW2 comes out, no one will care, one way or another.

Either those who hate GW, will quit playing GW1 and GW2. Those who like GW will jumped GW2.

With few people playing GW1, Ursan will prove to be a great convenience.

Regen.

Integrity of the game? Perhaps you should champion to nerf HFFF. Thats made an absolute mockery out of the survivor title. Any idiot can make a legendary survivor with hfff in a few hours. Then there's the textmods that make the cartography titles a joke now. and then there are consumables that benefit the less than elite players, nerf them too. And then the weekend bonuses, that provide quicker title access like lightbringer, ss, etc. Wow nerf them too!

I wish we could nerf the elite players out of the game. too bad more of them didnt do the mallyx exploit.

Then get over it, shut up about it and move on.

I don't even HAVE UB on any of my 11 characters. I almost exclusively H/H but when I do want to PUG I NEVER have trouble finding them and I play a CURSES Necro who hasn't capped SS yet. Sounds like some people are just as anal and "leet" as the whiners they complain about it.

Here's your cheese schmoe.

I shouldn't argue with, and concerning trash I suppose. Play your Ursan, don't learn how to actually play your proffession, I win eitherway.

Restricting the number of players on a team who could use it, but not changing the actual damage of the skill offers teams some variety. What I find humorous is the people who take 6 Ursans and 2 Monks. If they were smart, they would at least take 1 Raven and/or Volfen. I understand the basic premise of the energy regen issue, but there are things that prevent the skill from working properly. Zealous provides a -1 energy regen, but NOT with Ursan. This allows people to use the skill longer with no payment. Blood Ritual I can understand not working for it, but at the same time, maybe it should be usable.

And there IS a lot of discrimination for PUGs. I actually decided to use Ursan to join a UW clear group. I was a R/Mo, and I got kicked after we had 7/8, just needed a 2nd Monk. The leader would not even respond to my PMs asking why I was kicked. I was rank 8, and he had asked for rank 7+. Next thing I see in local chat is "GLM Ursan 7+ must be tank". True, this was a class discrimination, but it happens even in Ursan. I cleared FoW with my R/Mo using a 'typical' PUG team, and I did it on HM with an Ursan team. I have yet to see a group forming to clear UW with anything but Ursan.

I don't know what the fix should be. I do feel, however, that this skill has changed the way the game is played, and not in a good way. People who use Ursan do not need to know how to use skills properly. They run in, hit stuff, and repeat. There is no skill needed to use Ursan. Those people are not learning how to improve themselves, not learning how skills work together, or how teams work together.

Would ANYONE argue that Ursan was overpowered if only 1 person could use it at a time?

Magma, it takes skill for the obby tank just to stand there and hit buttons too?

Regen. BIP please.

DoA needs major changes, cause it's shit. Make it more like Sorrows so it can be atleast fun.

Dont give up too easily. Let me quote:

"The issue of how much Ursan needs to die is not a laughing matter. Easy win buttons like that are poison for a game like this."

BIP and BR please.

I'd like to see Ursan piss off. But either way, I don't need to argue, I benefit in one way or another whatever happens with it.

Yes. Ever see an Obsidian Flesh tank get aggro wrong? Skill isn't always in what skills you use, or when you use them. Sometimes skill is knowing the enemy you face, and how to deal with them. And interrupts can be used against an ooby tank, they need to know what will try to interrupt them, and how to counter that. I don't like obby tanks, but I see their uses, and I see skill from them when the person does it right. Ursan gives you 4 skills, and you can just spam them on recharge.

Lol, i was confused to why the 4th of january would be funny

Before GW:EN came out everyone was whining how they can't use their rit/assa/para/mesmer in Deep for example. People wanted a chance for every profession to evenly join a party and Anet gave that to you with ursan. You just have to raise your norn rank thats all. Now you want ursan out..i really can't get it..if you don't like it don't use it and play normal builds with guild party.

p.s. no i don't use ursan
as for balance..no offence but this is just pve

Look who fell for it.

Well I was joking obviously.

Or was I?

OP learn about suggestion forum, plx.

Yes, I play obby tank too in my warrior from time to time.

It also takes timing to play Ursan. Rush ahead and you're dead. Dont consider your energy and you lose the bear, and you'll stand up in the middle of the fight with no extra hp and armor. If you dont time right your ursan KD, it would be pointless. Ursan group fails too as much as the the balanced group. Bad aggro plays a part too.

Bad players, as well as inexperience ones, will always play bad whatever skills they have in the bar. I have been in both groups, and both have their share of bad players, sometimes Im part of the share. I think many others have seen that too.

You can have a good skill bar yet still play bad, like most farming build: its out there in the open but not everyone can do it. Or putting a tested pvp build everyone can get a template and still fall flat on your face.

Regen.

That would be a great update. Anet should make it happen asap. Will they? Pfft.

op·tion /ˈɒpʃən/
–noun
1. the power or right of choosing.
2. something that may be or is chosen; choice.

Hello kids! In this post we will be discussing the world "option" and its many implementations.

- Bryant here is thinking that group asking for people with Ursan Blessing won't take his fire nuker anymore? Why does he think so? Well, it certainly beats me. Say, if I didn't have the right skills to be in a party, I wouldn't be too surpised if the party didn't want me. Instead I could opt to make my own party with those that don't care about Ursan Blessing (which seems to be many). Bryant wants everyone to use fire nukers and limit people's right to choose what they want to run. Isn't that quite selfish?

- Bryant here is forgetting that Mesmers never had place in mainstream PUGs using wikibuilds and now they do. Ursan Blessing has clearly brought Mesmers to same line as fire nukers and Bryant tries to intimidate his opponents by saying Mesmer's place is to play with H/H and H/H only. Let's not be scared of his threatening, he's probably just sad his fire nuker isn't all the rage anymore.

- Bryant probably tries to imply that farming builds like dual-famine did require skill. Well, we experienced players know that his argument is rubbish and can be discarded.

There already is class and campaign discrimination happening before GW:EN. Ursan doesn't change a thing, maybe you're finally encountering discrimination for the first time because Ursan has made your preferred builds an after thought, but it's been ongoing since each campaign released. Groups ask you to ping build, you don't have Elite or regular skill from certain campaign they prefer you're booted from group. Most PvE and PvP groups aren't sympathetic, they all assume every player has all campaigns and all skills from each unlocked. Don't have "Light of Deliverance", because you don't own campaign that provides skill - tough luck. This is the normal thinking of GW players. Of course there are exceptions, but many people have a certain group build they're going after and there are no work around in their mind. Maybe you and I are flexible when forming groups, but everyone is different.

Even as a nuker or Mesmer people can join Ursan groups easily. Meet Nourn rank requirement group is asking for, roll as a Warrior (preferred) secondary, carry a melee weapon and a shield for extra armor. Now your a partial tank, with Ursan Blessing you have gain + .. armor and + ... HP. Any profession/class can Ursan. Most Ursan groups I've seen don't discriminate against class only Rank level. It's a skill with it's own skills so usually really doesn't matter what skills anyone is carrying next to Ursan, excluding res sig.

People with professions/class who had a hard time previously, now get into groups faster, pending they spent the time to grind Nourn ranks preferred (7+). A form of PvE eliteism, but with more people participating in the fad.

Something I pointed at vaguely in my post. A while ago, after it's initial discovery of use, a good point made by pro-UBers was that they were not seeing all these Ursanway groups - and they were right. The Anti-UBers were saying that this is all you'd see, but they weren't there. Fast forward to the now and that's most if not all of what you'll see: Ursanway LFM.

They herd to DoA because it has the chance to be the most beneficial of all the elite areas: Hero armors, gems, armbraces, and a green? DoA plz.

I'd agree with you if titles held integrity from the beginning. Not to mention my point is not about farming or being elitist at all.

JakeSteel: Read my post that you quoted. I have no problem with people playing how they'd like to as long as they know what's up.

Final thought in this post (nevermind, it's getting bigger than I thought):

That's the worst mindset I've seen for this. "It's just gonna be dead in a few years, so RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO it."

That's actually my point. A favored argument by the pro-UBers is that "any profession can use it." While that's true, it only applies to people who own GW:EN. It has the potential to be worse than class discrimination because it applies to all professions: If you were rejected as a Mesmer you could roll a Monk. If you were rejected because you didn't have UB, even if you were a "favored class of the trinity", then...pay $30 for GW:EN.

So to say "UB helps discrimination" isn't terribly accurate since it introduces a whole other level of discrimination.

Same reason why the "Trinity" wouldn't take Mesmers: it's not what they need. This kind of implies that Mesmers are the wrong class based on the rest of which you wrote, but I won't bring up the strawman on this one.

Already commented on this above with 2Broke. The rest of your post I can't really comment on since you're putting too many words in my mouth.

And I appreciate your ideal of "option", but part of my argument is that people will see UB as the only option.

In a matter of 3 hours this has degenerated into just another Ursan argument thread. Do we really need another one?

Time to bring in the lolcatz

Yeah I don't understand why we still type dates as numerals on the very global internet where 4.1.08 can mean January 4, 2008 to many or April 1, 2008 to others, so I wasn't sure what the OP meant when (s)he typed "read that date carefully" because I didn't know where (s)he is from.

You go first. http://icanhascheezburger.com/

Images have to be 800 x 600 or less, btw.

And "do I own GW:EN?" What kind of comment is that?

Guys, what number Ursan thread is this one? I think I lost count.

I'm not going to reflect my opinion on this matter anymore. I guess I'm just too rich and too old for this. I got to admit though, if any of my PuG's had this kind of persistence, I don't think any of us would really need to use Ursan.

And out of curiousity, Bryant, do you own Guild Wars: Eye of the North?

Actually, there is a far worst mind set: thinking that nerfing Ursan to uselessness will do away with the problems of GW.
Bad players and bad playing won't go away, sucky skills still exist, class discrimination will continue, etc

One solution is, giving "underused" skill a makeover, so as to give players incentive to use "alternative" bar skills.
The more variety of "usable skill", the better. It will help a bit in doing away with "Ursan" and other "builds" that cause the perceived problems.

If people are on the crusade, and passionate about it, raise hell for ANET to make other skills "useable".

Maybe while we would be playing GW2 in the future, we would give GW1 a drop to see and play from time to time.
Sometimes I play Warcraft I and Warcraft II to reminisce. Hell, I play pacman and snake when my ISP is screwy.



quickmonty:

It's weekend and I have too much energy, i feel like a necro with energy storage as primary attribute as well.
BTW, its not an argument, but a "discussion". Like song and dance.

But I agree with the cats.

Those who wish death upon Ursan Blessing are haters/losers. Go buy EotN, earn your Ursan and go farm with PUGs/Guildies & /ragequit on the hating. I don't even have Ursan Blessing yet (and I have 10 PvE toons who beat all 3 campaigns) and yet I don't try raining on their parades just because I don't have Ursan. It's an awesome skill that grants players fun times while farming, and yet ya'll want to shoot yourselves in the foot, whine to anet and have them nerf Ursan to oblivion so that others ya'll hate can suffer by being force-fed your level of gameplay (which is very low if you hate on Ursan)?

Sorry, but /notsigned...
Stop hating/QQing and go buy EotN, acquire Ursan and go PUG!

Doesn't take much skill to spam fire magic skills, SS, heal, protect, barrage, etc. The skills you have slotted are your skill, intellect is something else. The several times I have tried Ursan and was accepted into a group with my low Nourn rank 5 character it still was like any other PvE group. Can't over aggro, can't over extend monks heal range, etc. I was shock to see P, Me, Rt, and A classes accepted into those groups I was in. From my point of view there's not much to complain about a non-exclusive elite universal PvE skill that allows anyone to join in the fun. Don't want to and can't join Ursan group, form your own mixed Ursan or balance party. It's a game and everyone should be allowed to have fun and enjoy GW to it's fullest. Everyone should be able to get in a party to explore and quest in all elite zones after completing campaigns that were previously exclusive to certain classes/profession.

I never wanted Ursan to be nerfed to "uselessness" (it's mostly been in jest : P) but just to have it be on par with other builds. UB shouldn't be so awesome to warrant every party slot save for the monks.

I also think it's less the amount of useless skills (which I do agree, making more variety is always fun) but more of its overall convenience: You don't need to set up any skills, you don't have to worry about attributes, and you don't really have to synergize with any other builds (because frankly it's just that tough.)

I do agree about making a lot of other skills useful, though. Would it help in the case of UB? Only if they buffed to be as tough, which wouldn't be a terribly great move.

Excuse me if i'm wrong but since UB was introduced and as H/h can't use it the number of people PUG'ing has increased which is what people have wanted in the idea section for ages