PvE only skills ruined PVE for "builders" - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

mafia cyborg

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

02 Feb 2008 at 22:13 - 1

I am a causal PvE gamer.
one of the things i enjoyed most in guildwars was making my own builds.(especially "solo" builds)
it was great to have 100+ skills all balanced between them (balanced through PVP which is the only way of balancing skills against each other!) from which to choose and make up builds

since the introduction of these overpowerered pve skills (to accomodate whiners).....the choice of skills is now very limited and builds have become duller....cos at least 3 are gonna be PVE skills.

(that means choosing 3 out of only just 10 of your title track skills)

i see myself now forced to go and max out these retarded titles ( i never been interested in titles)just to be as strong and imbalanced as anyone else.

all the 100s of pvp skills in the gw game are now almost worthless as they can't compare to how strong these pve are. it's a shame.

possible solution:
- limit these pve skills just to eotn dungeons.
that way ppl also won't complain much about grinding titles as these titles will only matter in those dungeons (which are for harrdcore gamers and nolifers anyway) .
- or please limit these PvE skill to 1 per build. (like an extra elite)

Blu

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2007

Michigan

Blades of Burning Shadows [GoDT]

R/

02 Feb 2008 at 22:19 - 2

What do you mean competitive? There is nothing competetive about PvE unless your counting speed of completion in places or something...

Anyway, if your solution happened, what would the Factions and NF players without EoTN do with PvE skills?

BTW, I like how you say dungeons are for hardcore gamers. Is it that you can't finish them yourself? Its easy to do dungeons even with no pve skills and all henchies... fail moar?

Angelica

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

Aussie land

Me/E

02 Feb 2008 at 22:20 - 3

^^ Agree.

@OP - your not obliged to use the new skills, just ignore them!

/unsigned

kestrelsalight

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jan 2006

US

Bad Wolf Corporation [WOLF]

N/

02 Feb 2008 at 22:20 - 4

This doesn't make much sense...

First you are a "casual PvE gamer" who enjoys making "solo builds"...

Then you morph into a "competitive PvE char" who is "forced" to go max titles...? "Competitive" and "PvE" seems a little oxymoronic; if you're out soloing I don't know who you're "competing" with and in any event no one is forcing you to do squat. There is no rule that compels you to put three PvE skills on a bar, if you dislike them as much as you seem to, you might try plucking up the willpower to resist their lure rather than moaning about them.

mafia cyborg

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

02 Feb 2008 at 22:23 - 5

competitve i mean....on par ( i edited it out cos it wasnt' clear sorry)

if i don't use pve skills i'm at disadvantage compared to somoene who has them .(btw i don't even have time to max those skills)

thats what i mean.

enter_the_zone

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2007

R/

02 Feb 2008 at 22:23 - 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafia cyborg

I am a causal PvE gamer.
one of the things i enjoyed most in guildwars was making my own builds.(especially "solo" builds)
it was great to have 100+ skills all balanced between them (balanced through PVP which is the only way of balancing skills against each other!) from which to choose and make up builds

since the introduction of these overpowerered pve skills (to accomodate whiners).....the choice of skills is now very limited and builds have become duller....cos at least 3 are gonna be PVE oskills.

(that means choosing 3 out of only 10 of your title track skills)

to be a competitive PvE char(on par with everyone else) i see myself now forced to go and max out these retarded titles ( i never been interested in titles)just to be as strong and imbalanced as anyone else.

all the 100s of spvp kills in the gw game are now almost worthless as they can't compare to how strong these pve are. it's a shame.

possible solution:
- limit these pve skills just to eotn dungeons.
that way ppl also won't complain much about grinding titles as these titles will only matter in those dungeons (which are for harrdcore gamers and nolifers anyway) .
- or pls limit these PvE skill to 1 per build. (like an extra elite)

And again with the irony....

The solution is simple. You don't HAVE to use it, so don't.

The fact is simple: PVE was heavily biased towards certain classes. Hence the 5 man cookie cutter for FoW, the 2 man 600/Smite UW, etc etc etc ad nauseam. All the PVE skills (in particular, Ursan Blessing, since this seems to attract the most QQing around here) have done is make these areas available to classes which didn't fit the prevailing builds. Ever tried to get on a HM FoW pug as a ranger? or a mesmer?

Before Ursan : virtually impossible

After Ursan : entirely possible

Can we please end this PVE skills bitching? It's getting old, fast.

BLOODGOAT

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2007

long a

Mo/

02 Feb 2008 at 22:25 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafia cyborg

competitve i mean....on par ( i edited out cos it wasnt' clear sorry)

if i don't use pve skills i'm at disadvantage compared to somoene who has them .(btw i don't even have time to max those skills)

thats what i mean.

You are only at a disadvantage to someone who uses them if YOU are bad at the game. No one is putting a gun to your head and telling you to run R9+ Ursanway when you are interested in "competitive" "solo" farming.

Blu

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2007

Michigan

Blades of Burning Shadows [GoDT]

R/

02 Feb 2008 at 22:27 - 8

Dunno, It wasn't that hard to find a group to do HM in a PuG on my ranger. I guess I was just lucky ^ ^.

pizzamonkey

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2006

Mad Town

Nice Insides [nice]

Mo/

02 Feb 2008 at 22:29 - 9

Just don't use those PVE skills, plain and simple. If you're a "solo" person why are you even bothered at all.

BTW, I lost respect for you the moment you made a comment about people that do dungeons are "nolifers". Way to go.

quickmonty

Ancient Windbreaker

Join Date: May 2005

02 Feb 2008 at 22:30 - 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafia cyborg

competitve i mean....on par ( i edited it out cos it wasnt' clear sorry)

if i don't use pve skills i'm at disadvantage compared to somoene who has them .(btw i don't even have time to max those skills)

What is this 'disadvantage'? You state that you make your own solo builds. Nothing has changed it that respect. The addition of the PvE only skills hasn't changed your solo builds. Just keep playing and forget about the PvE only skills.

Curse You

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

South Pole

The Magus Order

N/Mo

02 Feb 2008 at 22:30 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

Ever tried to get on a HM FoW pug as a ranger?

Not that hard actually. Rangers can interrupt, which most people find to be a useful thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blu

Dunno, It wasn't that hard to find a group to do HM in a PuG on my ranger. I guess I was just lucky ^ ^.

They apparently forgot that rangers are actually useful in areas with high damage spell casters.

mafia cyborg

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

02 Feb 2008 at 22:30 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

Ever tried to get on a HM FoW pug as a ranger? or a mesmer?

Before Ursan : virtually impossible

After Ursan : entirely possible

and now : without Ursan you don't get in.(and 90% of gw population don't have it maxed out)

but thats not my point.
it's the buildmaking which has dumbened down....and i don't like that.
skills should be balanced. (and the only way to do that is compare them against each other =PVP)

Miska Bow

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2008

somewhere, Grinding some l33t titles

Order of the Divine WoodChuck

R/

02 Feb 2008 at 22:32 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafia cyborg

competitve i mean....on par ( i edited it out cos it wasnt' clear sorry)

if i don't use pve skills i'm at disadvantage compared to somoene who has them .(btw i don't even have time to max those skills)

thats what i mean.

Its this some joke ???

just dont use them thats all. i do use a lot of them and i really fail to see in witch way i have any kind of advantage over you. When you go out to kill stuff you got your map and i got mine, so its not like im using them to steal your kills.

Maybe if you do take the time to get those titles at a decent lvl (rank 5 at least) you'll enjoy those skills.

enter_the_zone

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2007

R/

02 Feb 2008 at 22:37 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafia cyborg

and now : without Ursan you don't get in.(and 90% of gw population don't have it maxed out)

but thats not my point.
it's the buildmaking which has dumbened down....and i don't like that.
skills should be balanced. (and the only way to do that is compare them against each other =PVP)

That's just rubbish, since every area had it's own little cookie cutter build before anyway, so the "problem" has shifted to a different prevailing build . People who enjoy making different builds will still be doing so.

And who said you needed to max Ursan to make a team anyway? Most teams are R8, which can be reached in about 15 hours using normal mode Heros Handbooks. On any char.

EPO Bot

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Mo/N

02 Feb 2008 at 22:39 - 15

I love the norn skills to go melee with my monk. Or to nuke. Or to summon.

It doesn't mean i don't use normal builds in pve anymore.

mafia cyborg

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

02 Feb 2008 at 22:40 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miska Bow

Its this some joke ???

just dont use them thats all. i do use a lot of them and i really fail to see in witch way i have any kind of advantage over you. When you go out to kill stuff you got your map and i got mine, so its not like im using them to steal your kills.

Maybe if you do take the time to get those titles at a decent lvl (rank 5 at least) you'll enjoy those skills.

yes cos the economy is connected.
if u ,thanks to imba pve skills, can farm more efficiently.... that makes farming less effective for me.
people who have more time are allready adavantged by having more time....why even have more powerful skills?

more challenging builds and mastering skills should have higher reward over TIME IMo.

but eotn made TIME too much of a decisive factor and has dumbened down the game ruining the "thinking" bits. (thats why maybe some ppl cant undestrand my thread.....maybe their iq has fallen cos of too much EOTN

)

kestrelsalight

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jan 2006

US

Bad Wolf Corporation [WOLF]

N/

02 Feb 2008 at 22:42 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafia cyborg

and now : without Ursan you don't get in.(and 90% of gw population don't have it maxed out)

but thats not my point.
it's the buildmaking which has dumbened down....and i don't like that.
skills should be balanced. (and the only way to do that is compare them against each other =PVP)

PvE does not = PvP. And where do you pull this "90%" figure from...? If you just play through the dungeons you can get quite a respectable Delver rank - it's probably the easiest of the GW:EN reps to level up. I suppose only a "nolifer" would do something logical like that though...

By the by...there is no need to have a title track maxed all the way out for its skills to be useful. Most of the improvement you see between the rank you end up at if you play through the content without being forgetful and not accepting bounties and having it maxed is a tiny increment.

I can feel myself getting "dumbened" by the second here.

Lord Sojar

The Fallen One

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oblivion

Irrelevant

Mo/Me

02 Feb 2008 at 22:44 - 18

So I herd you liek Mudkipz.

/notsigned.

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

02 Feb 2008 at 22:47 - 19

/unsigned

this is dump. PvE skills function just like normal skills, they are just skills that could never see use in PvP.

I love making builds, and PvE skills didnt make it any different.

If you like building that much go play magic. thats what the entire gae is about. Its basicaly guild wars only more complicated and with less farming.

Sora267

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

02 Feb 2008 at 22:52 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafia cyborg

I am a causal PvE gamer.
one of the things i enjoyed most in guildwars was making my own builds.(especially "solo" builds)
it was great to have 100+ skills all balanced between them (balanced through PVP which is the only way of balancing skills against each other!) from which to choose and make up builds

since the introduction of these overpowerered pve skills (to accomodate whiners).....the choice of skills is now very limited and builds have become duller....cos at least 3 are gonna be PVE skills.

(that means choosing 3 out of only just 10 of your title track skills)

i see myself now forced to go and max out these retarded titles ( i never been interested in titles)just to be as strong and imbalanced as anyone else.

all the 100s of pvp skills in the gw game are now almost worthless as they can't compare to how strong these pve are. it's a shame.

possible solution:
- limit these pve skills just to eotn dungeons.
that way ppl also won't complain much about grinding titles as these titles will only matter in those dungeons (which are for harrdcore gamers and nolifers anyway) .
- or please limit these PvE skill to 1 per build. (like an extra elite)

Okay, lemme get this straight. You're saying that by ADDING MORE skills, they've LOWERED the selection of skills?

And you're saying that it was great that PvE skills were balanced through PvP standards?

And you're not FORCED to max out titles, or FORCED to use the PvE skills. Why do you care what others are doing in PvE? The E stands for environment, not player.

And the 3 PvE skills on a bar is a LIMIT, not MANDATORY.

Also, there's no such thing as "pvp skills". If by "pvp skills", you mean "skills that can be used in PvP", well, lets see:

"all the 100s of pvp skills in the gw game are now almost worthless as they can't compare to how strong these pve are."

If you were as good in PvE as you SAY you are, you'd know that 3 PvE skills won't constitute a decent bar. You can, nay, SHOULD use these "obsolete pvp skills" to support these PvE skills, and vice versa. And if you're telling me that Ursan Blessing is more powerful than a well-constructed SF build, a decent Curses build, a decent Warrior build, or a 55 Monk in PvE......Let me have some of what you're smoking, please.

Ordinarily, I'd support you because your cause is for PvE, but after seeing how poorly constructed your argument is....

/unsigned for being owned by common sense.

mafia cyborg

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

02 Feb 2008 at 22:52 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

/unsigned

If you like building that much go play magic. thats what the entire gae is about. Its basicaly guild wars only more complicated and with less farming.

what is it?
i might try it....
i wish i could just make level 20 PvE chars with all skills unlocked (and balanced) and go fight,explore,trade etc. that would be the perfect game for me.
but that sure ain't changin.

Sora267

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

02 Feb 2008 at 22:57 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafia cyborg

what is it?
i might try it....

i also hate levelling in GW....i wish i could just make level 20 PvE chars with all skills unlocked (and balanced) and go fight,explore,trade etc. that would be the perfect game for me.
but that sure ain't changin.

Magic = Magic the Gathering = a card game. It's quite fun, you should try it.

If you hate levelling in GW, try using PvP chars. It's like PvE, but requires more teamwork, has no PvE skills, and is basically made of everything you want in PvE. Random Arenas is KIND of like soloing! :P

DivineEnvoy

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

Me/P

02 Feb 2008 at 22:59 - 23

To be honest, how many of these PvE-only skills are killing the game threads do we need in a week?

[DE]

Hugs and Kisses

Join Date: Oct 2005

Scars Meadows

02 Feb 2008 at 23:01 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sora of the Divine

Okay, lemme get this straight. You're saying that by ADDING MORE skills, they've LOWERED the selection of skills?

Yes. The more imbalanced skills they add, the less diversity people want.

Quote:

And you're saying that it was great that PvE skills were balanced through PvP standards?

PvE skills promote skill less play as opposed to when we actually had reasonably balanced skills.

Quote:

And you're not FORCED to max out titles, or FORCED to use the PvE skills. Why do you care what others are doing in PvE? The E stands for environment, not player.

No guild/Limited Friendlist = R10 Ursan LFG. What other way are people going to be able to get into groups?

Quote:

And the 3 PvE skills on a bar is a LIMIT, not MANDATORY.

It is a limit but if you can bring 3 overpowered PvE skills there's no reason to only use 1 or 2.

Quote:

Also, there's no such thing as "pvp skills". If by "pvp skills", you mean "skills that can be used in PvP", well, lets see:

"all the 100s of pvp skills in the gw game are now almost worthless as they can't compare to how strong these pve are."

He just referred to those skills in the wrong way

Quote:

If you were as good in PvE as you SAY you are, you'd know that 3 PvE skills won't constitute a decent bar. You can, nay, SHOULD use these "obsolete pvp skills" to support these PvE skills, and vice versa. And if you're telling me that Ursan Blessing is more powerful than a well-constructed SF build, a decent Curses build, a decent Warrior build, or a 55 Monk in PvE......Let me have some of what you're smoking, please.

Save Yourself + There's Nothing to Fear + Focused Anger. Why do I need anything else on my bar when I can use 2 OP'd PvE skills and 1 decent elite? Or I could just bring ursan and have one skill on my bar.

Quote:

Ordinarily, I'd support you because your cause is for PvE, but after seeing how poorly constructed your argument is....

/unsigned for being owned by common sense.

makosi

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

"Pre-nerf" is incorrect. It's pre-buff.

Requirement Begins With R [notQ]

Me/

02 Feb 2008 at 23:06 - 25

Other than Ursan/Volfen/Raven Blessing, neither of the PvE skills dictate your skillbar so can be as creative as you like. I don't bother with Ursan because I'm not fond of it and I play squish casters most of the time so it isn't appropriate.

I view the PvE skills as tools and fillers instead of must-haves. I enjoy toying with Pain Inverter (wooo yellow numbers) and Technobabble but could manage without them just as I did before.

hurdlebeast

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2007

W/Mo-Smashing Beast; Mo-Monk Beast

E/Me

02 Feb 2008 at 23:07 - 26

i'm /confused. yeah the skills are good, so what. they are balanced out by having to grind for them. the more time you spend playing the game, the more powerful they become. if you don't like them, don't use them. simple as that.

Navaros

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Mo/Me

02 Feb 2008 at 23:08 - 27

PVE only skills never ruined a darn thing.

Don't like them? Don't use them. End of story.

ZuRin

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jan 2008

Professers Of Pwnage

E/D

02 Feb 2008 at 23:10 - 28

i find it this simple.........u dont have to use any pve only skills....i have like 2 sunspear skills and 1 luxon skill.....i haven't gotten any of the gwen skills even though i have it....and guess what....i still get into parties...im at no dis-advantage its not about the pve skills its about your build...honestly like others said if it really really bothers u that much dont use them it doesnt bother me im jut lazy so i dont have them.....to put it simple gw is a game that is BALANCED so clearly theres nothing wrong with these pve only skills have u ever seen anet nerf a pve only skill b4 gwen....no....so why would they do it now....doesnt make sense...they wont nerf them because there PVE ONLY...they only nerf skills that effect the whole game that includes pvp so since u cant use pve skills in pvp its not gonna happen....so i think thats logical enough....

Truly Your Zu Rin

p.s stop bitchin' and just play...gw is just a game so get over it

Serac

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

Lion's Arch, Kryta

E/A

02 Feb 2008 at 23:41 - 29

Very /unsigned.
Weird incoherent argument.
Furthermore, I like having Vampirism and Summon Spirits in the same bar on my Ritualist.
Stop whining and go grind titles in silence.
Is this a veiled anti-ursan thread?

Sora267

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

02 Feb 2008 at 23:47 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Phantom

Yes. The more imbalanced skills they add, the less diversity people want.

I interpreted the way he said it as ANet lowering the selection of skills available, not society's desire of diversity decreasing. If people want less diversity...Look for the right people. It's not too hard to find a nice non-ZOMG-URSAN-DOOD-DOOD guild.

Quote:

PvE skills promote skill less play as opposed to when we actually had reasonably balanced skills.

I'm going to assume you mean less GROUP play, in which case, there were always those sociopaths who wouldn't do group play either way.

Quote:

No guild/Limited Friendlist = R10 Ursan LFG. What other way are people going to be able to get into groups?

I've only seen Ursan groups in elite areas, and I've seen group forming with normal builds while an Ursan group was forming. Also, if you've got no guild (Not in between guilds, but just outright refuse to join a guild during your entire GW career) AND a limited friendlist, I don't know what to say to you.

Quote:

It is a limit but if you can bring 3 overpowered PvE skills there's no reason to only use 1 or 2.

He's trying to pass himself as an "experienced build maker". If he was, he'd know that that third skill slot could be better used with a non-PvE only skill that synergizes well with the rest of the bar rather than another skill to buttonmash.

[quote]He just referred to those skills in the wrong way[quote]
Got caught up in the moment there.

Quote:

Save Yourself + There's Nothing to Fear + Focused Anger. Why do I need anything else on my bar when I can use 2 OP'd PvE skills and 1 decent elite? Or I could just bring ursan and have one skill on my bar.

Not everyone's running a Paragon. Though, I must admit, <3 my Para.

Overall, I kind of get where he's coming from, but he made it sound like you only had a choice between using ONLY normal skills or ONLY PvE-only skills. In reality, you should be able to synergize PvE skills with the other skills on your bar, which is most likely what they were meant for. A different style of synergy for PvE, not to "stop people from QQing".

I think this post sums up my thoughts nicely:

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

Other than Ursan/Volfen/Raven Blessing, neither of the PvE skills dictate your skillbar so can be as creative as you like. I don't bother with Ursan because I'm not fond of it and I play squish casters most of the time so it isn't appropriate.

I view the PvE skills as tools and fillers instead of must-haves. I enjoy toying with Pain Inverter (wooo yellow numbers) and Technobabble but could manage without them just as I did before.

anonymous

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

02 Feb 2008 at 23:58 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafia cyborg

but eotn made TIME too much of a decisive factor and has dumbened down the game ruining the "thinking" bits. (thats why maybe some ppl cant undestrand my thread.....maybe their iq has fallen cos of too much EOTN

)

Welcome to PvXwiki. There was never thinking required in PvE and a lot of the people that "think" and make "creative builds" come up with crap like the WoH W/Mo, The Panic R/Me, and the Flare spam N/E.
Making up your own builds is overrated. No one cares if you came up with your own build if an older one is 10 times better. Making your own build is only good if it is better than the old ones.

Sir Pandra Pierva

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Sardelec yelling at Tenshi

Angels Of Strife

E/

03 Feb 2008 at 00:03 - 32

XD currently 38 people viewing this thread

anyway can you please explain how this makes farming harder for you.......

Also magic rocks I play it all the time

Shadowmoon

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

N/A

N/

03 Feb 2008 at 00:03 - 33

I wonder if the OP doesn't have gwen, and he is complaining about not beng able to pug non gwen areas because people want pve skills. Honestly guildwars is a solo game, hero/hench is all you need outside of the "elite" areas. And many of those are doable with either 2 people and 6 heros, or 1 person and 3 heros.

FakePC

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jun 2006

brooklyn NYC

SOT

Mo/Me

03 Feb 2008 at 00:04 - 34

nothing is better example of this than URSAN

ursan has taken a game with 10 characters classes and innumerable builds and narrowed it down to 2 ursans and healers

Rhedd

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

You ever have to clean up after a Moa bird?

True Solunastra [SLA] Profession: Moa Wrangler

03 Feb 2008 at 00:06 - 35

I don't usually use PvE skills in PvE, and I certainly don't use three at a time.

I don't feel that I'm at a disadvantage, at all.

When I DO use a PvE skill (usually Great Dwarf Weapon) I want to be able to use it anywhere in PvE that I bloody well please.

I've often wondered why so many people think they'd have more fun if they put limits on other people's fun.

Don't like PvE skills? Don't take them. Have some self control.

[DE]

Hugs and Kisses

Join Date: Oct 2005

Scars Meadows

03 Feb 2008 at 00:07 - 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sora of the Divine

I'm going to assume you mean less GROUP play, in which case, there were always those sociopaths who wouldn't do group play either way.

Well I was referring to "skill less play" as in being able to mash your skills randomly and generate epic wins. Which is what a lot of PvE skills seem to be quite well at doing.

Quote:

I've only seen Ursan groups in elite areas, and I've seen group forming with normal builds while an Ursan group was forming. Also, if you've got no guild (Not in between guilds, but just outright refuse to join a guild during your entire GW career) AND a limited friendlist, I don't know what to say to you.

Well, from my experience it seems that the groups with "normal builds" highly enjoy the classical 1 tank + 5 eles + bonder + monk set-up. I used to clear DoA a few times a week with SMS using 2 paragons + whatever else we could find and I never saw another group being formed that wasn't either the gimmick aggro+nuke build or ursanway. Unfortunately for other people the community for guild wars (like a lot of online games) isn't that great and it's hard to find some competent people that you don't mind adding to your friend list and play with again.

Quote:

He's trying to pass himself as an "experienced build maker". If he was, he'd know that that third skill slot could be better used with a non-PvE only skill that synergizes well with the rest of the bar rather than another skill to buttonmash.

I'll be quite honest when I say I never fully read the OP

. I can't decide whether or not he's actually an "experienced build maker or not." I do agree though that if you have a non-PvE only skill that synergizes better with your build than a PvE skill would, than you should take it.

Quote:

Not everyone's running a Paragon. Though, I must admit, <3 my Para.

It's pretty sad that you don't see many paragons running around in PvE. They're the most powerful class in the game atm (PvE-wise and they're still strong in PvP), but not many groups are interested in using them.

Quote:

Overall, I kind of get where he's coming from, but he made it sound like you only had a choice between using ONLY normal skills or ONLY PvE-only skills. In reality, you should be able to synergize PvE skills with the other skills on your bar, which is most likely what they were meant for. A different style of synergy for PvE, not to "stop people from QQing".

Yes, assuming you're not using a blessing synergizing pve-only skills with regular skills gives you the best of both worlds. However I'm someone that believes PvE would be much better off without PvE-only skills. (And less grind. Please Anet take away grind... I know you need to keep us busy until GW2 Open Beta but cooomee on.....)

artay

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

Australia

The Agony Scene

E/

03 Feb 2008 at 00:21 - 37

If your suggestions were implemented, guild wars would implode.

[skill]Echo[/skill] [skill]Mending[/skill]

Miska Bow

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2008

somewhere, Grinding some l33t titles

Order of the Divine WoodChuck

R/

03 Feb 2008 at 00:36 - 38

So is this what we're talking about ?

Ebon Battle Standard of Courage
Ward Spell. You plant an Ebon Battle Standard of Courage at your current location. For 10...20 seconds, non-Spirit allies in this area gain +24 armor and an additional +24 armor against Charr.

Compare to this:

Ward Against Harm

Elite Ward Spell. Create a Ward Against Harm at this location. For 8...18...20 seconds, non-Spirit allies in this area have 12...50...60 armor against fire damage and 12...22...24 armor against other damage.

Where is this Huge advantage you're talking about? If you take the time to look them up carefully, you 'll find that they, for the most part, have a pve/pvp skill counterpart. (meaning none of these skills are kick-ass-lick'em all and mail post them back to their mamas skills) ( Ursan is not a skill, its a blessing... for some)

Have you bought EoTN ? If yes i dont understand your attitude. If not then i can understand your frustrations

Mouse at Large

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Scotland

Fuzzy Physics Institute

E/

03 Feb 2008 at 00:38 - 39

I've been vanquishing with one Guildie. Cantha done, Elona, one to do, Tyria 8 to do. We've never used Ursan, and see no need. I admit we often use a tweaked Sab's setup, but part of the fun is in the tweaking

The skills are there to use as you want. It's your choice to use them in whatever combo you (and others in your group) see fit.

Skyy High

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2006

R/

03 Feb 2008 at 01:24 - 40

I've really never been asked to take a PvE-only skill, by any group, other than an Ursan group. The rest of the time, there's only two PvE only skills that are just that awesome: Pain Inverter and Finish Him!, and you only need one copy of each of those per team. The rest of the skills are either gimmicky, pretty much as good as normal skills, just plain bad, or only marginally better than the alternatives so that it doesn't even really matter.

Oh, and Sunspear Rebirth Sig. But that replaces res sig one for one, so it's not like it leads to huge new builds. If anything, it just reduces the number of PvE skills you can bring to two.