Guildwars: Pvp game or Pve game?

I wish I could say that Guild Wars is about PvP, but when the hardest challenge in HA is actually finding a competent team that doesn't suck bawls and disband after first loss in the underworld, I'm forced to either farm gladiator points with Monk in RA, go PvE or press the small X button on top right corner and start a real PvP game like Counter-Strike.

Although it was originally marketted otherwise, it's PvE game ...

It's more of a PvE game right now, which is shameful because GW had far more potenial as a PvP based game than another common MMO.

I agree with Shuuda.

- Using MMO engine to build a PvP game is like using spoon to eat steak. It's ten times more convenient to use engines for what they do best. One thing I've always wondered what is the point in PvE when every item that drops has similar stats and the best items you can get from weapon crafter. Why are monster and player skills to rigidly limited to skill slots? Why professions like Mesmers have no role in PvE? What's the point of binding rituals? I could spend 2 hours to list every problem that is caused by this decision to keep PvE and PvP together, but I have other things to do.

Its a problem because a lot of people can't use skills that they aren't used too. Some people in PvE also think that their build is hardcore stuff and also 99.9% of the time, it sucks...

I was in AB and a mesmer was telling me that tactics for warrior is the most important attribute. That I should also bring Defy Pain as my elite instead of derv hammer so I will survive longer. Its a problem, I agree because most of the time people in PvE are ignorant when it comes to PvP and this problem won't go away until the majority of people won't generalize and stereotype others who play PvP or PvE.

I also thought GW was for PvP mostly at first intended.

QFT. Anet just decided to market to the masses instead.

The whole bussines model of A-Net is based on the masses buying the game.
Had their marketing been targeting a specific group of players the "one time fee" system would not have worked.

And I think the bussines model came before the game, (could be wrong).

y halo thar
http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=lmnEWvo1Ugw

Part #2

I /agree with this one. PvP competitiveness has severly turned downwards.

The game is all about what you make of it. The two don't really interact with each other except for skill balance typically falls around the PvP aspect of the game in order to limit the amount of degenerate builds. My advice would be to decide what you would like to do and find a good active guild that will support that decision.

But this is about the Battle Isles only being 80% PvP because of the NPCs, it is not about GvG, which is PvP of course.

Muahahaha. You actually believe that?

No, I believe what will awesome people on Guru say instead of listening to GW's dev. Sounds reasonable [/sarcasm]

Whoops, so it wasn't Jeff Strain who said it : o Thanks for the source.

That video needs to be a sticky.

both
you got alot of ppl doing pvp and alot of ppl doing PvE
and then there are ppl that do both

Play Fury...? It's all PvP.

GW is GW. It tried to be both PvP and PvE. I say it done quite well. Yes, it has it's faults, but what doesn't?

It's both. It's whatever the player likes. Why must everything be PvP vs PvE? Both or neither, it's just GW.

I only pve. so its 90% for me. 10% pvp for my fortaspenwood days.

As said already, GW is both PVE and PVP.

The PVP is good enough to have a completely stand-alone variant of the game, which says something about how good it actually is. I have no issues with the PVP system in GW, it's very very good. It's a pity about most players, but then that's true of PVE as well (FoW/UW leavers, Warriors who can't/won't pull etc).

The PVE is fun and interesting without the enforced addictive grind of other MMO's. PVE GW is more like a Final Fantasy RPG (FF10, for example) than it is WoW or EVE, and that's a good thing.

GW does both really well, and sometimes that gets forgotten by players on both sides of the pvp/pve divide. We many not like the same things, but we should all be able to agree that GW is a pretty damn good game.

I think it's also amazing value with 2 years worth of play so far, for less than £200, including all the campaigns, the expansion, loads of char slots, all the PVP unlock packs, BMP etc.

Sure, Anet can be lugnuts, and yes, if you are starting out now you will never have enough money for some of the rarer minipets (assuming normal play) etc.

While this may be a major issue for those of us who have played for a long time, it doesn't affect the fact that GW is a damn fun game while you still have stuff to do and assuming you suppress the desire for "prestige" items.

I was blinded by the desire for titles, but this thread has made me remember that GW is about fun first, everything else second.

I hate farming.

That being said. I hate PVP too. GvG in general because it tends to create the biggest assholes in the PVP side, and thus encourages me even more not to PVP and thus all those PVP people who say GvG and in wider that PVP is the greatest part of the game, and the only part that skill balances effect reinforce my idea that most of the assholes in this game are from GvG.

You see my problem.

But back to my original point. I hate farming, I don't do it for the same reason. Farmers tend to be the bigger assholes of the PVE side. They farm, to sell stuff they find for lots of money, to buy more expensive stuff from other farmers... For what reason? To make their character the most pwnz they can.

When I play PVE, I play because I have fun doing it, going through different areas to become the strongest I can. And conquer the areas of the world. Explore, finding adventure, and playing out my own (and the actual) story.

When I PVP, its usually Alliance Battles, but sometimes the Team and Random, depending on what the guild is doing. But its only because there is a reward for doing that PVP. A tangible reward that doesnt take to the end of of several rounds. That's always been my major problem with PVP. No real reward. Just fighting for fighting's sake is not its own reward. Titles are stupid, fame and little glowy animals mean nothing to me. And fighting your ashoff in the Hall of Heroes to get a special weapon... means jack.

At what point is this natural love of PVP after PVE going to start?

It matters what kinda character you make first, you should make a pvp character first if you want to see the game at it's best, but a lot of people make a pve first.

I bought Guild Wars after reading about the monk class and Guild versus Guild battles.

I truth be told cared little about lore/items/quests.

I just wanted to monk the hell out of my teammates.

I always interpreted the game as PvP first.

GW is a PvE game with a PvE player base who wants PvE-focused development. Unfortunately, a-net didn't get the memo.

seems like youve had a hard pvp child hood lol j/k, anyway pvp IMO is not about the titles or glowing animal thingy but to the pure enjoyment of pwning someone with your skills. Its like playing Counter-Strike or Halo, you feel like your better than the guy you killed. For all i care, i can have the best equipments but if I couldnt kill one pvp-er i feel like its useless.

but.

this sense of "superiority" does breed some A**hole players, thinking that they are better than anyone else, but the truth is theyve just played longer than the other guy thus faster finger, combo, timing, etc.

There's no tangible reward according to you for PvE.

Why should there be one for PvP?
People who truly enjoy PvP are the ones that do it for the challenge. That's the fun and reward of it. Being challenged, and winning.

It is essential to separate people from a PvP mode. According to your personal experience, many a GvG player is an asshole. This is your experience, but it should not be used to make hasty generalizations. Most GvG players are not assholes, and bad people don't make GvG format bad. I do think that GvG is the best part of GW PvP when played with good people, and the best reward you get from it is fun.

You get titles for PvP, just like in PvE. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying titles aren't completely useless and crappy. We all know grinding levels > grinding titles.

The same developers have said that they intended for people to play through PvE and then as the endgame play PvP! Yes, you had to do the whole of PvE do start playing GvG: You had to unlock everything through PvE at the start. No PvP characters! No Balthasar Faction.

And you think that what he said in that video was actually what they planned from the start? Sorry, that was just a spur of the moment, just some BS you say on a PvP event? Next time consider the environment and the atmosphere it was uttered in.

Factions was an attempt to get more people to play PvP and it failed. So Nightfall and EotN were more PvE.

What I am wondering about is: Didn´t they make any kind of market research before starting on GW?

Ah, but whenever skill balance times come, all you see are the GvG idiots who think their form of play is the main part of the game, or rather the only part of the game. And that PVE, no matter what form or reason, is noobish and there for must be unimportant.

And those are the people who make PVP seem nonimportant to me. Because I dont want anything to do with those people.

I don't tend to find PVP all that challenging. And therefore I would need a tangible reward for doing it. And no, there's no tanigle reward for PVE, but atleast I enjoy doing that.

There's a saying in life:

99% of the people in the world masturbate, and the other 1% is lying.

I kind of view the pve/pvp debate as such, only it's flip flopped. 1% of the community pvp's competitively, and the other 99% wishes they could.

I just don't get people who only pve. Why play this game if you are only going to pve? Some say they like that you don't have to grind, but once you complete all the chapters (which could easily be done in a week or so) that's all there is left to do, is grind. You might not be grinding for the best armor, best weapons, best w/e, but you're still grinding, titles and farming. That's all there really is left to do, this is not an expanding universe, it only expands once every yearish.

pve'ers are just as bad as pvpers when it comes to showing off. The only difference is pvpers do it with emotes, and pve'ers do it by pinging there crappy sundering weapons in team chat and wearing their black dyed armors with chaos gloves.

also saying you don't pvp because of all the 'aholes' is just a crutch. Don't like trashtalk? Turn off all chat. It's that simple.

I really think the only reason most people say they don't like pvp is simply because they're afraid to look like morons for the first few months while they learn, and rather than taking a chance on something that could possibly be fun, new and exciting, they stick to safe ole pve where the monsters all ball up and only have 4 skills on their bars and you always know what you're gonna face. Safe, boring, predictable pve.

I think anyone who plays this game and slags pvp probably just never gave it the chance it deserves because they couldn't stand being bested by other players and went back to pve where that could never happen and they could feel reassured in knowing that others could never accuse them of being worse players in pve because they have fow armor and chaos gloves...

of course pve only players would never fess up to that, but it's the truth IMO. Competition is part of the human spirit. It's human nature to compete. Too bad a lot of you allowed your shattered egos and pride get in the way of experiencing probably one of the most interesting and unique pvp games that you can find in video games past and present.

but oh well...at least you have a voltaic spear and can complete all the missions on...gasp...hard mode...

Well written post, Van Gogh.

Also, have you kept in touch with Kappa at all?...or do you remember him??

Post of the year

/agreed
Van Goghs... congratulations.
Today, you've joined an elite club.

To me this is pretty accuruate.


EDIT: I just read van goghs ear's post. Its like you took words I couldn't speak and wrote them down for me. Amazing post...

Both PvP and PvE need balance. Many skill balances are due to their abuse in PvP. Skill balances can improve PvP, but might have a collateral negative effect on PvE. This might upset some people. However, since you know exactly what bars your opponents will use in PvE, it is not difficult to replace skills that are perceived as nerfed into uselessness with other skills. That is one of the reasons why Anet introduced PvE only skills that are not affected by PvP skill balances.

You have to realize that people play the game for different reasons. Bartle Test of Gamer Psychology (wiki)explores different preferences of MMORPG players.

Actually, I was referring to the arseholes on your own team. Not a crutch, my brother is into the whole pvp thing, to the point he has his own vent server, so I know for a fact that pvp players are a bunch of arseholes. Thanks, but no thanks. Oh, and FYI, there are plenty of lame pvp players who think they know it all, having IWAYed R9. GG, you can run a scrub build...

As to being killed by other players, I actually don't care. I sometimes AB for variety, because at least I don't have to listen to their retarded comments on vent. I don't play to compete, I play to relax and have a nice time. Work is competitive enough. But that's not something that most pvp players would know anything about...

Did you actually read any of that post by Van Gogh?

You just ignored all of his points and made some BS remark that didn't address anything he said.

PvP isn't all that challenging?

Oh that's right, I forgot it's pretty easy to beat Last of Master, Soul Wedding, and Danjang, even when you're Ensign.

I was addressing his point as to why most PVE player dislike PVP, specifically turning off all chat. But expecting pvp players to read is like expecting them to follow the caller....pointless 99% of the time.

What hexes? The monk will remove those!