Guildwars: Pvp game or Pve game?
Taurucis
Try getting a PuG as a paragon or mesmer.
Tyla
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
Try getting a PuG as a paragon or mesmer.
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They can somehow fail at playing Paragons...
And besides, I thought your point was that they were nerfed into being obselete?
Creeping Carl
I can understand Mesmers not being as effective in PVE as they are in PVP and so people automatically think "they suck", but Paragons? I'm wondering what you people are doing so wrong that you think they're "obsolete".
Or maybe I'm some sort of miracle worker where I can get my Paragon teams to work somehow whereas others seem to think they're useless....
Or maybe I'm some sort of miracle worker where I can get my Paragon teams to work somehow whereas others seem to think they're useless....
Avarre
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
Try getting a PuG as a paragon or mesmer.
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I had no problem getting pugs as a Mesmer because I made my own groups. Leader gets to pick what goes in, after all.
Saying PvP nerfs damage the PvE game is incredibly naive. If you're relying on a skill so heavily that you have to complain when it gets nerfed, it was probably too good anyway.
ensoriki
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Originally Posted by Avarre
Saying PvP nerfs damage the PvE game is incredibly naive. If you're relying on a skill so heavily that you have to complain when it gets nerfed, it was probably too good anyway. |
Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
Try getting a PuG as a paragon or mesmer.
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Also, didn't you kinda contradict yourself here?
Taurucis
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Originally Posted by ensoriki
Except horns!
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I said nowhere that Mesmers and paragons were incredibly weak. I just said that they're the two classes that have been hit the most from complaints from PvPers. I have a mesmer, I love using her (I can make every single class cry if I'm using the correct build) but I've never been able to get a PuG with her. I wind up forming my own groups.
maraxusofk
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
Exactly.
I said nowhere that Mesmers and paragons were incredibly weak. I just said that they're the two classes that have been hit the most from complaints from PvPers. I have a mesmer, I love using her (I can make every single class cry if I'm using the correct build) but I've never been able to get a PuG with her. I wind up forming my own groups. |
Taurucis
Clumsiness and Ineptitude. I used to use them to interrupt assassin skill chains, or save monks from non-spellcaster bosses. Now they cast too slow, even with the 9 fast casting I run.
Sab
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
I said nowhere that Mesmers and paragons were incredibly weak. I just said that they're the two classes that have been hit the most from complaints from PvPers. I have a mesmer, I love using her (I can make every single class cry if I'm using the correct build) but I've never been able to get a PuG with her. I wind up forming my own groups.
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Taurucis
Most of the skill nerfs are because PvPers thought a skill was too overpowered. Like Horns of the Ox (which is obsolete in PvE where stuff is usually clustered up) and Ether Prodigy (which is now completely obsolete...)
Let's not forget Soul Reaping, either. I know you can still manage, but the fact still remains that PvPers whined and SR got nerfed.
Let's not forget Soul Reaping, either. I know you can still manage, but the fact still remains that PvPers whined and SR got nerfed.
Bryant Again
You can not only manage in PvE, but you can still do incredibly successful in it.
But still, PvP shouldn't be blamed for the idiocy of puggers.
But still, PvP shouldn't be blamed for the idiocy of puggers.
Sab
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
Most of the skill nerfs are because PvPers thought a skill was too overpowered. Like Horns of the Ox (which is obsolete in PvE where stuff is usually clustered up) and Ether Prodigy (which is now completely obsolete...)
Let's not forget Soul Reaping, either. I know you can still manage, but the fact still remains that PvPers whined and SR got nerfed. |
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
I'd think Guild Wars started as PvP, that's why it's such a mess as it is today, with a bunch of skills nerfed until they had no use and two classes pretty much obsolete.
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Taurucis
No... I changed the topic. It is because most people are too dumb to know that Mesmers and Paragons are useful - you can tell them how powerful the classes are but they'll still think that you're begging for a spot.
However, I was saying that it was because of PvP that there's a good amount of skills that are nerfed into becoming absolutely useless.
However, I was saying that it was because of PvP that there's a good amount of skills that are nerfed into becoming absolutely useless.
Hyper Cutter
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Originally Posted by Avarre
Saying PvP nerfs damage the PvE game is incredibly naive. If you're relying on a skill so heavily that you have to complain when it gets nerfed, it was probably too good anyway.
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And then later nerf the thing that was breaking the attribute, but refuse to revert the original nerf despite it no longer being needed...
Sab
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
No... I changed the topic. It is because most people are too dumb to know that Mesmers and Paragons are useful - you can tell them how powerful the classes are but they'll still think that you're begging for a spot.
However, I was saying that it was because of PvP that there's a good amount of skills that are nerfed into becoming absolutely useless. |
As for a "bunch of skills nerfed" you do realise that PvP also caused a bunch of skills to be *buffed*? It's kind of stupid to talk about balance if you're only going to mention nerfs - it shows you don't understand the reasoning or you want to portray skill balance as something that is uncalled for.
Taurucis
Usually the skills that got buffed usually have limited use in PvE, either that or they get ridiculously overpowered. And the ones that see little to no use in PvP get ignored, meaning no updates or bug fixes for them. Shattering Assault much?
maraxusofk
ill use empathy to back up sab's argument. theres others, but empathy is on my mind atm. i see many ha teams with sins run shattering assault........
Avarre
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Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter
Unless they nerf an entire primary attribute, anyway...
And then later nerf the thing that was breaking the attribute, but refuse to revert the original nerf despite it no longer being needed... |
Sab
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
Usually the skills that got buffed usually have limited use in PvE, either that or they get ridiculously overpowered. And the ones that see little to no use in PvP get ignored, meaning no updates or bug fixes for them. Shattering Assault much?
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Tyla
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
I said nowhere that Mesmers and paragons were incredibly weak.
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| I'd think Guild Wars started as PvP, that's why it's such a mess as it is today, with a bunch of skills nerfed until they had no use and two classes pretty much obsolete. |
Taurucis
Soul Reaping might still be incredibly powerful but that doesn't change the fact that it was nerfed due to PvP.
There's a difference between "weak" and "obsolete". "Weak" means that it lacks strength, basically a class that is clearly subpar. "Obsolete" means that it can't be used. And it's hard to get a PvE pug on a mesmer or paragon, which means that it's very hard to use one in PvE without H/H or guild groups.
There's a difference between "weak" and "obsolete". "Weak" means that it lacks strength, basically a class that is clearly subpar. "Obsolete" means that it can't be used. And it's hard to get a PvE pug on a mesmer or paragon, which means that it's very hard to use one in PvE without H/H or guild groups.
Snow Bunny
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
And it's hard to get a PvE pug on a mesmer or paragon, which means that it's very hard to use one in PvE without H/H or guild groups.
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The Paragon has the damage of a sword warrior with the damage mitigation of a monk. It's easily the most powerful PvE character.
So, when it doesn't get accepted, it's not PvP's fault.
EternalTempest
Not sure about any % but GuildWars allows you to do all of the below:
Pve - Quests, Missions, Human Explore, Co-op / Npc Co-OP play, 4 Story Arcs.
Pvp - RA, TA, HoH, AB, Fort Aspen/Jade, GvG, Hb (all against human players)
And it's up to you want you want to play.
Pve - Quests, Missions, Human Explore, Co-op / Npc Co-OP play, 4 Story Arcs.
Pvp - RA, TA, HoH, AB, Fort Aspen/Jade, GvG, Hb (all against human players)
And it's up to you want you want to play.
LightningHell
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Originally Posted by Spike
Actually Guild Wars was envisioned as a PvE oriented game not pvp. Pvp was added later as something to do AFTER you finished PVE.
Also as enter said "I point you to the fact that, when the game started, you had to unlock all your Runes, mods, etc etc via PVE. There was no PVP unlock pack" |
In my opinion, Guild Wars is mainly about PvP. It's probably still the most balanced, well-made PvP RPG out there, despite absolutely horrendous balance decisions.
Thorondor Port
Hey you guys should argue about nothing more.
QUICKLY! Quote me and begin insulting
QUICKLY! Quote me and begin insulting