Remove them from the game.
It's been argued before here but the main reason why HCT mods are bad for the game is that they make luck a huge factor in success/failure, which is bad. Things like lag/ping, which are also bad for the game in terms of high level play, you can't do anything about, but ANet can fix this.
Discuss.
HCT mods
RhanoctJocosa
You can't see me
No reason to.
Debate.
Debate.
EinherjarMx
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa
Remove them from the game.
Discuss. |
Darkobra
And now you've actually fixed the post. Much better. And I still say no.
![[DE]](/static/static/../Img/avatar38220_14.gif){kind=avatar}
[DE]
It's really a matter of how controlled you want your play environment to be. If you don't want things to be left up to chance than obviously HCT/HCR can ruin the game for you. However I think they promote a more interesting game with the ability to turn a match around with a diversion on WoH, etc.
Also HCT Pleak ownzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Also HCT Pleak ownzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
TheHaxor
Why aren't we addressing the more serious issue of -2 while enchanted? Every good wammo build of all time runs enchants and they already have enough damage reduction, why give them more with this mod? Plus, all monks have enchants like vital blessing too.
RhanoctJocosa
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Phantom
It's really a matter of how controlled you want your play environment to be. If you don't want things to be left up to chance than obviously HCT/HCR can ruin the game for you. However I think they promote a more interesting game with the ability to turn a match around with a diversion on WoH, etc.
Also HCT Pleak ownzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
[DE]
It's guild wars, not chess. If HCT/HCR mods are removed from the game than critical hits should be as well. Might as well make everything as controlled as possible.
Onarik Amrak
What we need to do is remove all weapon mods.
/notsigned
/notsigned
[DE]
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Onarik Amrak
What we need to do is remove all weapon mods.
/notsigned |
Onarik Amrak
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Phantom
His point is that these mods are random. 15^50, +5, 20% longer are all specific and do exactly what they say they do. However with HCT you can get extremely lucky and end up winning a match you probably shouldn't have. While I don't agree with Rhanocts suggestion there's more reasoning behind his suggestion than what you think.
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But what about other aspects of the game like % chance of Critical Strikes?
RhanoctJocosa
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Phantom
It's guild wars, not chess. If HCT/HCR mods are removed from the game than critical hits should be as well. Might as well make everything as controlled as possible.
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MithranArkanere
I would be bad if it was completely random.
But it's a fixed percentage 10% or 20% of the times.
That makes that anyone using it will half cast one out of 5 or 10 spells.
Same goues for the +1(20%). It's not like getting a level 28 intead of a level 26 Flesh golem once in a while would hurt anyone.
In a system so mirrored a bit of luck harms no one. Other thing would be a lot of luck.
But it's a fixed percentage 10% or 20% of the times.
That makes that anyone using it will half cast one out of 5 or 10 spells.
Same goues for the +1(20%). It's not like getting a level 28 intead of a level 26 Flesh golem once in a while would hurt anyone.
In a system so mirrored a bit of luck harms no one. Other thing would be a lot of luck.
[DE]
One of the main problems is the GoLE+Aegis abuse that is used with the HCT skill. Even when only 20% of your skills get the HCT it can still be exploited to guarentee a HCT for important spells
RhanoctJocosa
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
But it's a fixed percentage 10% or 20% of the times.
That makes that anyone using it will half cast one out of 5 or 10 spells. Same goues for the +1(20%). It's not like getting a level 28 intead of a level 26 Flesh golem once in a while would hurt anyone. |
HawkofStorms
/notsigned
What are they supposed to do with all the weapons out there that already have these mods? Destroy them? Remove their mods? Render them worthless? Replace them with something else, if so, what?
Oh yeah, I'm sure that will make a LOT of people happy.
What are they supposed to do with all the weapons out there that already have these mods? Destroy them? Remove their mods? Render them worthless? Replace them with something else, if so, what?
Oh yeah, I'm sure that will make a LOT of people happy.
MithranArkanere
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa
You have a random chance of getting the effect once every 5 spells. As for your example, not it would not hurt anyone. But a monk being able to get a fast cast guardian off, or anything, could be the difference between a party wipe. Basically, it rewards nothing.
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And, more importantly, anyone can have HCT mods, it's not like those weird offhand/shield combinations that drop in prophecies.
Yeah, other skills do not have them bit... which attacks skills have casting times longer than 1 second?
RhanoctJocosa
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
Due to aftercast delays and spell recharges, it only really makes a difference spells with 2 second casting time spells to help them do not get interrupted.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
And, more importantly, anyone can have HCT mods, it's not like those weird offhand/shield combinations that drop in prophecies.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
/notsigned
What are they supposed to do with all the weapons out there that already have these mods? Destroy them? Remove their mods? Render them worthless? Replace them with something else, if so, what? Oh yeah, I'm sure that will make a LOT of people happy. |
RedStar
I'm sorry, but I don't really get it.
You want to take away HCT because it can be timed by an experienced monk. So, I'm exaggerating a little bit, a sin or a warrior could do the same with guardian : they could time when to do what attack they want (it will be easier to time since, following the statistics, 1 out of 2 attacks will hit the target).
My point is : every game has some luck in it, even in PvP (the luck to dodge, the luck to miss, the luck to HCT or HRT).
/notsigned
You want to take away HCT because it can be timed by an experienced monk. So, I'm exaggerating a little bit, a sin or a warrior could do the same with guardian : they could time when to do what attack they want (it will be easier to time since, following the statistics, 1 out of 2 attacks will hit the target).
My point is : every game has some luck in it, even in PvP (the luck to dodge, the luck to miss, the luck to HCT or HRT).
/notsigned
Div
If this goes through, then the next logical proposal would be to remove all expansion professions from the game. Granted, Anet isn't going to touch HCT mods or else all the PvErs will cry about how they can't quickly animate their bone fiends.
MithranArkanere
When I was talking about 2 seconds casting spells I was not talking about those with '2 seconds' in the skill descriptions, but about those that are casted in two seconds under the current speed of the character, considering current effects, like fast casting and or hexes.
Due to human braing limitations and connection lag, and since only skills that are casted at 2 seconds or more have non-instant activation indicators(you know, that animated bars that move from left to right when you activate skills), human players interrupting a certain spells cast in under 2 seconds casting it's more matter of luck than skill. You may try to guess what and when is foe is going to cast, but you will not see which skill since more specific casting animations start during the half of the first second. Most of the time if you interrupt, you will not interrupt what you want.
And for protections stuff, it doesn't really make a difference having something activated 1/16..1/2 seconds after or before. Yeah, you may land how many? 0..1 hits depending on weapon attack speeds and skills used.
In PvP people try to use things that go through defenses and prevent them from being reappleid, not things that try to kill things before the defenses take place, that's almost impossible most of the time. Can you prevent a pre-veil from the other side of the map? No, but you can remove it really quick.
XDDD, good one. What? Were you serious? I must remind you that PvErs are the ones havijng to face bosses that can activate 1/4 activation time skills in 1/16 seconds.
Oh, don't you worry about them.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mindbender
See? They are well served.
HCT it's not about that. For minions it's better a +1(20%).
Due to human braing limitations and connection lag, and since only skills that are casted at 2 seconds or more have non-instant activation indicators(you know, that animated bars that move from left to right when you activate skills), human players interrupting a certain spells cast in under 2 seconds casting it's more matter of luck than skill. You may try to guess what and when is foe is going to cast, but you will not see which skill since more specific casting animations start during the half of the first second. Most of the time if you interrupt, you will not interrupt what you want.
And for protections stuff, it doesn't really make a difference having something activated 1/16..1/2 seconds after or before. Yeah, you may land how many? 0..1 hits depending on weapon attack speeds and skills used.
In PvP people try to use things that go through defenses and prevent them from being reappleid, not things that try to kill things before the defenses take place, that's almost impossible most of the time. Can you prevent a pre-veil from the other side of the map? No, but you can remove it really quick.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa
[...]I should've posted this in the Glad's section, less ignorant PvErs there.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by holymasamune
If this goes through, then the next logical proposal would be to remove all expansion professions from the game. Granted, Anet isn't going to touch HCT mods or else all the PvErs will cry about how they can't quickly animate their bone fiends.
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http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mindbender
See? They are well served.
HCT it's not about that. For minions it's better a +1(20%).
TorquemadaXL
U don't want it? U don't need it? just DON'T USE IT!!
Stop complaining about what U want or need or u think it can be usable or HAVE TO BE REMOVED from game.
If u think that a mod, a skill or anything unbalance UR game just quit using that, but please, don't act like u're the only one that knows how to play or how is good.
I like what i like and i use what i use, none of ur business.
I'm way bored of threads like this in which every ppl don't suggest a way to get a better result from game updates, but simply get "the mad scientist smart idea of the millennium" because they just don't like that thing or don't know how to use it (generally speaking there) whitout proposing a solution, just cutting it off. GREAT! I think it's a lame way of proposing updates.
definitively /not signed.
OT: The same way i'm pissed off of ppl that want to nerf Ursan Blessing (I don't use it) just because they can't sell mallyx stuff at 100k+xx ectos anymore.
Stop complaining about what U want or need or u think it can be usable or HAVE TO BE REMOVED from game.
If u think that a mod, a skill or anything unbalance UR game just quit using that, but please, don't act like u're the only one that knows how to play or how is good.
I like what i like and i use what i use, none of ur business.
I'm way bored of threads like this in which every ppl don't suggest a way to get a better result from game updates, but simply get "the mad scientist smart idea of the millennium" because they just don't like that thing or don't know how to use it (generally speaking there) whitout proposing a solution, just cutting it off. GREAT! I think it's a lame way of proposing updates.
definitively /not signed.
OT: The same way i'm pissed off of ppl that want to nerf Ursan Blessing (I don't use it) just because they can't sell mallyx stuff at 100k+xx ectos anymore.
arcanemacabre
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Phantom
It's guild wars, not chess. If HCT/HCR mods are removed from the game than critical hits should be as well. Might as well make everything as controlled as possible.
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Pleikki
/notsignet? what point for removing any mods? i dont think any of em make Huge difference tbh so who cares? i think they should nerf the skills not mods.
RhanoctJocosa
Quote:
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Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
Exactly why they belong in the game. There are MANY things left to chance in GW, why remove just one? Cause it annoys you? Why is this one so much more "game-breaking" in your eyes than say, % block chance, or what piece of armor is hit when struck by an attack?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TorquemadaXL
U don't want it? U don't need it? just DON'T USE IT!!
Stop complaining about what U want or need or u think it can be usable or HAVE TO BE REMOVED from game. If u think that a mod, a skill or anything unbalance UR game just quit using that, but please, don't act like u're the only one that knows how to play or how is good. I like what i like and i use what i use, none of ur business. I'm way bored of threads like this in which every ppl don't suggest a way to get a better result from game updates, but simply get "the mad scientist smart idea of the millennium" because they just don't like that thing or don't know how to use it (generally speaking there) whitout proposing a solution, just cutting it off. GREAT! I think it's a lame way of proposing updates. definitively /not signed. OT: The same way i'm pissed off of ppl that want to nerf Ursan Blessing (I don't use it) just because they can't sell mallyx stuff at 100k+xx ectos anymore. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
XDDD, good one. What? Were you serious? I must remind you that PvErs are the ones havijng to face bosses that can activate 1/4 activation time skills in 1/16 seconds.
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arcanemacabre
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa
Firstly, thank you for posting something decent. With skills like Guardian and such, the chance to block is a reward for putting it on the right person and the right time. Getting a fast cast Guardian that saves your ass because you were slow on the pre-prot isn't rewarding you for having the foresight that the latter did, you're simply spared the party wipe/dp because you lucked out. Epic theorycraft, yes, but I'm trying to make a point.
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Shuuda
I can understand why you would want to see HCT mods removed, the game could certainly potenially benefit from it, since A-net won't ever do it, (due to PvErs QQing over it without understanding) The closest we'll get is nerfing GoLE so that it gives an energy return rather than reduction, or so that cancel casts take up one of it's two uses, but even so, that only fixed thr Aegis abuse.
Aera
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Phantom
One of the main problems is the GoLE+Aegis abuse that is used with the HCT skill. Even when only 20% of your skills get the HCT it can still be exploited to guarentee a HCT for important spells
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And what's wrong with a luck factor? This gives the somewhat lesser skilled players a chance too, and it makes games have more variety and is way less predictable. Being interrupt fodder is boring as hell. We'll see a ton of interrupts if this happens, because most good skills have a relatively long casting time, and will be easily interrupted.
/notsigned
Blu
/notsigned
This is irrevelant when arond 3/4 of the game is luck.
This is irrevelant when arond 3/4 of the game is luck.
Yawgmoth
An option for debate: Disable the random triggers of HCT and HSR from PvP so they have no effect there. No changes to PvE.
But is that really needed? I mean I know they're very potent, I always try to use them to their best, and I must say that getting a HSR trigger or 2 in a row is often even more gamebreaking than a random HCT. It all depends on the skills, both effects feel imba when triggered in the right moment. Be it fakecasting that Aegis on a Glyph till you hit that HCT, casting a Ward in 1/2s making that ranger miss with his Dshot, or getting a lucky HSR on that Divine Spirit to recharge in 30 and gain massive advantage if unanswered.
HSR is at least as potent as HCT, they just affect different skills and situations, HCT is more about getting interrupted or not while HSR is more about getting more sheer power of skills which are limited by long recharge times.
But is that really needed? I mean I know they're very potent, I always try to use them to their best, and I must say that getting a HSR trigger or 2 in a row is often even more gamebreaking than a random HCT. It all depends on the skills, both effects feel imba when triggered in the right moment. Be it fakecasting that Aegis on a Glyph till you hit that HCT, casting a Ward in 1/2s making that ranger miss with his Dshot, or getting a lucky HSR on that Divine Spirit to recharge in 30 and gain massive advantage if unanswered.
HSR is at least as potent as HCT, they just affect different skills and situations, HCT is more about getting interrupted or not while HSR is more about getting more sheer power of skills which are limited by long recharge times.
Numa Pompilius
This is among the most pointless threads about a complete and utter non-problem I've seen in Sardelac.
zwei2stein
By ops logic, damage range should be removed from game in favor of fixed damage on each weapon.
One team can get lucky and score lots of max damage hits while other can get unlucky and just plink their axes for 8 damage per hit.
Next logical step is to Fix critical hits, sundering mods and all that, including % block skills.
One team can get lucky and score lots of max damage hits while other can get unlucky and just plink their axes for 8 damage per hit.
Next logical step is to Fix critical hits, sundering mods and all that, including % block skills.
Numa Pompilius
Cue the cats.
Proff
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa
Remove them from the game.
It's been argued before here but the main reason why HCT mods are bad for the game is that they make luck a huge factor in success/failure, which is bad. Things like lag/ping, which are also bad for the game in terms of high level play, you can't do anything about, but ANet can fix this. Discuss. |
You can't see me
OP-
Your thread lacks logic, as do your arguments. If we remove one luck based thing that will help you, we need to remove all mods on weapons, especially those pesky +1 20% chance mods, those are the devil of them all! Those last few seconds saved his butt, and he didn't even have the attributes to do it! Imba!1shift! It also means we remove the drop system and replace it with set drops for each monster. I mean, it's just wrong that one person gets a crystalline through luck and one person gets a Req 13 garbage staff! Nerf it!
Seriously. Stop whining because gaurdian prevents insta-gab. Run [skill]expose defenses[/skill] on your bar and go back to your scrub PvP.
This thread fails. Cue the lolcats.
Your thread lacks logic, as do your arguments. If we remove one luck based thing that will help you, we need to remove all mods on weapons, especially those pesky +1 20% chance mods, those are the devil of them all! Those last few seconds saved his butt, and he didn't even have the attributes to do it! Imba!1shift! It also means we remove the drop system and replace it with set drops for each monster. I mean, it's just wrong that one person gets a crystalline through luck and one person gets a Req 13 garbage staff! Nerf it!
Seriously. Stop whining because gaurdian prevents insta-gab. Run [skill]expose defenses[/skill] on your bar and go back to your scrub PvP.
This thread fails. Cue the lolcats.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
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Originally Posted by holymasamune
If this goes through, then the next logical proposal would be to remove all expansion professions from the game. Granted, Anet isn't going to touch HCT mods or else all the PvErs will cry about how they can't quickly animate their bone fiends.
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In principle, I agree that luck shouldn't really be a deciding factor (and for the record - Guardian isn't a luck-based skill - as a Warrior, it's a skill that forces me to switch targets/rage at my mes or ranger), however - as evidenced by this thread - the amount of QQing from people without a clue will really hurt ANet.
Rather than remove them from the game, why not make HCT mods simply reduce the casting speed of all spells by a lesser amount?
There, the PvEers get to raise their fiends, cast their healbreezes and drop their meteor showers faster still; and instead of giving the chance of a game-breaking cast (not deserved), the PvPers get a method to ward off interrupts, if only slightly.
Happy?
You can't see me
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
I'd sign this too.
In principle, I agree that luck shouldn't really be a deciding factor (and for the record - Guardian isn't a luck-based skill - as a Warrior, it's a skill that forces me to switch targets/rage at my mes or ranger), however - as evidenced by this thread - the amount of QQing from people without a clue will really hurt ANet. Rather than remove them from the game, why not make HCT mods simply reduce the casting speed of all spells by a lesser amount? There, the PvEers get to raise their fiends, cast their healbreezes and drop their meteor showers faster still; and instead of giving the chance of a game-breaking cast (not deserved), the PvPers get a method to ward off interrupts, if only slightly. Happy? |
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
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Originally Posted by You can't see me
It's still flawed logic. What about HSR mods, or +1 20%?
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+1 mods are shit and can be ignored.
And I can't see why the logic of removing hct is flawed, it's a perfectly reasonable complaint.
[DE]
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
When I was talking about 2 seconds casting spells I was not talking about those with '2 seconds' in the skill descriptions, but about those that are casted in two seconds under the current speed of the character, considering current effects, like fast casting and or hexes.
Due to human braing limitations and connection lag, and since only skills that are casted at 2 seconds or more have non-instant activation indicators(you know, that animated bars that move from left to right when you activate skills), human players interrupting a certain spells cast in under 2 seconds casting it's more matter of luck than skill. You may try to guess what and when is foe is going to cast, but you will not see which skill since more specific casting animations start during the half of the first second. Most of the time if you interrupt, you will not interrupt what you want. And for protections stuff, it doesn't really make a difference having something activated 1/16..1/2 seconds after or before. Yeah, you may land how many? 0..1 hits depending on weapon attack speeds and skills used. In PvP people try to use things that go through defenses and prevent them from being reappleid, not things that try to kill things before the defenses take place, that's almost impossible most of the time. Can you prevent a pre-veil from the other side of the map? No, but you can remove it really quick. XDDD, good one. What? Were you serious? I must remind you that PvErs are the ones havijng to face bosses that can activate 1/4 activation time skills in 1/16 seconds. Oh, don't you worry about them. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mindbender See? They are well served. HCT it's not about that. For minions it's better a +1(20%). |
Quote:
| It's still flawed logic. What about HSR mods, or +1 20%? |
Quote:
| Err, you shouldn't rely on your mods, if you rely on luck to do anything in gw chances are you're doing something wrong. |
Quote:
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By ops logic, damage range should be removed from game in favor of fixed damage on each weapon. One team can get lucky and score lots of max damage hits while other can get unlucky and just plink their axes for 8 damage per hit. Next logical step is to Fix critical hits, sundering mods and all that, including % block skills. |
Quote:
| Your thread lacks logic, as do your arguments. If we remove one luck based thing that will help you, we need to remove all mods on weapons, especially those pesky +1 20% chance mods, those are the devil of them all! Those last few seconds saved his butt, and he didn't even have the attributes to do it! Imba!1shift! It also means we remove the drop system and replace it with set drops for each monster. I mean, it's just wrong that one person gets a crystalline through luck and one person gets a Req 13 garbage staff! Nerf it! |
You can't see me
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
Do the same on HSR mods.
+1 mods are shit and can be ignored. And I can't see why the logic of removing hct is flawed, it's a perfectly reasonable complaint. |
If you complain about luck, and want it fixed, you remove luck in its entirety and revert to a totally monotonous and linear system. There's no other way to logically do it.