The Art of Underworld
Avarre
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzalaran
i have a question regarding equipment used by the necro... i understand the uses for the wand and offhand, and that the weapon and shield are for the 4 horsemen quest primarily.
regarding the staff. i currently have the stonereaper for curses builds and an insightful shadow staff of enchanting q9 Blood when i'm a BiP. will the combination of those two staves work for the one you suggest in the guide?
could i switch to the weapon of enchanting when casting BR on the 55 and then use the stonereaper for everything else?
thanks for all the hard work done by everyone who contributed to this guide. it has made my runs 4 times as successful and we've been able to complete unwanted guests, escort of souls, and servants of Grenth quests, free the reaper of ice and forgotten Vale, and get into the chaos wastes every run. Your enchanting weapon is only really used to swap to BR or SV for, so it doesn't matter too much what the mods on it are besides the enchanting boost. If you want to swap between two staffs, go for it.
regarding the staff. i currently have the stonereaper for curses builds and an insightful shadow staff of enchanting q9 Blood when i'm a BiP. will the combination of those two staves work for the one you suggest in the guide?
could i switch to the weapon of enchanting when casting BR on the 55 and then use the stonereaper for everything else?
thanks for all the hard work done by everyone who contributed to this guide. it has made my runs 4 times as successful and we've been able to complete unwanted guests, escort of souls, and servants of Grenth quests, free the reaper of ice and forgotten Vale, and get into the chaos wastes every run. Your enchanting weapon is only really used to swap to BR or SV for, so it doesn't matter too much what the mods on it are besides the enchanting boost. If you want to swap between two staffs, go for it.
Dae Arrow
Hi Cerb & Companions,
at first, this is a great guide, it explains (almost) everything about uw and how to do this, ive read it all through and it made me change back from 600/smite to 55/ss. But i still got one question and it isn't really answered in the guide nor the comments.
I dont really understand the necro's weapons, i know there was a question about it a few posts above this one but i still dont understand after that.
What weapon set does de necro have normally? And when he has to change to other sets?
Thanks for your help,
Dae
at first, this is a great guide, it explains (almost) everything about uw and how to do this, ive read it all through and it made me change back from 600/smite to 55/ss. But i still got one question and it isn't really answered in the guide nor the comments.
I dont really understand the necro's weapons, i know there was a question about it a few posts above this one but i still dont understand after that.
What weapon set does de necro have normally? And when he has to change to other sets?
Thanks for your help,
Dae
cerb
The necro should stay on 'Set1' most of the time as it will provide you a good energy boost and allow you to chain all your casts (i.e.: arcane echo, ss, ss, reckless). Switch to 'Set2' whenever you cast enchantments. 'Set3' is only used for Four Horsemen in case you are attacked by Dryders.
That being said, the weapons really don't matter THAT much. If you have played some 2-men UW then you should already have a good idea what to use. The 2.b. section of the guide describes weapons listed as optimal, ideal choices, not as requirements. I have beat Four Horsemen as necromancer without those weapons. (although I would suggest having at least something that looks like Set2, and a +15,-1/+15,-1 set - can use collectors')
For anyone interested, expect The Mists in may. I've been working hard writing/shooting a movie and I had no time for it (nor guild wars, haven't opened it in about a month and a half) but the movie will be done by the end of April so then I'll get back to serious projects :- )
That being said, the weapons really don't matter THAT much. If you have played some 2-men UW then you should already have a good idea what to use. The 2.b. section of the guide describes weapons listed as optimal, ideal choices, not as requirements. I have beat Four Horsemen as necromancer without those weapons. (although I would suggest having at least something that looks like Set2, and a +15,-1/+15,-1 set - can use collectors')
For anyone interested, expect The Mists in may. I've been working hard writing/shooting a movie and I had no time for it (nor guild wars, haven't opened it in about a month and a half) but the movie will be done by the end of April so then I'll get back to serious projects :- )
Kaleban
I have a question about the tank.
Instead of using a Monk with [skill]Spell breaker[/skill], and all the headaches associated with upkeep of enchantments and energy costs, why not use an Assassin?
A simple setup would be:
[skill]Deadly Paradox[/skill][skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Shadow Form[/skill][skill]Channeling[/skill][skill]Shadow Refuge[/skill]and if necessary or just in case, [skill]Feigned Neutrality[/skill]
The energy cost of the Shadow Form chain is 40 energy, and no attacks or spells get through, and with Channeling up while tanking you're never in need of energy.
You can aggro as many opponents as you want, the Necro doesn't need to worry about casting visages at all, and in the event of any damage getting through SF, such as Bleeding or Burning, you have two regen skills plus the armor boost from Feigned, and much more life than a 55 tank, giving a larger margin for error.
Unless there's something I don't realize, an infini-SF sin would be a superior tank in almost any circumstance?
Instead of using a Monk with [skill]Spell breaker[/skill], and all the headaches associated with upkeep of enchantments and energy costs, why not use an Assassin?
A simple setup would be:
[skill]Deadly Paradox[/skill][skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Shadow Form[/skill][skill]Channeling[/skill][skill]Shadow Refuge[/skill]and if necessary or just in case, [skill]Feigned Neutrality[/skill]
The energy cost of the Shadow Form chain is 40 energy, and no attacks or spells get through, and with Channeling up while tanking you're never in need of energy.
You can aggro as many opponents as you want, the Necro doesn't need to worry about casting visages at all, and in the event of any damage getting through SF, such as Bleeding or Burning, you have two regen skills plus the armor boost from Feigned, and much more life than a 55 tank, giving a larger margin for error.
Unless there's something I don't realize, an infini-SF sin would be a superior tank in almost any circumstance?
Scarn
A perma-SF sin could not complete the 4 Horsemen.
Kaleban
Yeah I just realized their Signet of Humility would mess it up. Oh well, but it would work everywhere else lol.
Larcen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaleban
Yeah I just realized their Signet of Humility would mess it up. Oh well, but it would work everywhere else lol.
Actually the reason is because Spell Breaker is used -on- the Reaper of the Chaos Planes. Watch Cerb's video on the Four Horsemen quest to get a clear understanding. Shadow Form is a self cast spell only.
cerb
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaleban
Yeah I just realized their Signet of Humility would mess it up. Oh well, but it would work everywhere else lol.
No.
Smites
Behemoths/Darknesses (Shock + NR)
Spawning Pools (Dryders/Darknesses)
Mindblades (Escort of Souls, Chaos Planes)
Four Horsemen (must enchant reaper)
Smites
Behemoths/Darknesses (Shock + NR)
Spawning Pools (Dryders/Darknesses)
Mindblades (Escort of Souls, Chaos Planes)
Four Horsemen (must enchant reaper)
Rushin Roulette
Wow, amazing guide there Cerb.... I came up with that exact same Necro build as you did (although later than you posted here I think). That means my/your build works well... although im a bit dissapointed that I thought I was doing something different than the normal SS necro.
I guess Ill read through the runs later tonight again to see if I can manage that with my partner 55.
I guess Ill read through the runs later tonight again to see if I can manage that with my partner 55.
Larcen
The biggest problem I have is when looking for a partner, I find so many 'PRO 55' or 'PRO SS' looking for duo 50/50 but, if I play the SS part I find the monk isn't as pro as they said and end up dieing in no time, and the run being over after resurrection cause they died again. Same if I run the monk part (granted I'm not the best) but it usually ends with the SS rushing in before I'm ready and getting killed, thus ending the run. Sometimes I end the run myself because I still fail at drawing out interrupts very well. And worse of all, when I do find a decent monk they only aggro one or two tops groups at a time, and it takes sooo long, and then they don't want to 50/50 up the drops.
And, every group for this type I've found, only want to do the smite run, and 'local' Aatax, and then resign. Gah, thats annoying. Had a few runs of ecto drops 3 for the other person, 0 for me, and not getting squat from the run.
My question I pose is, how does one know when and who to choose as their partner? Or is everyone else just lucky enough to know someone already that can handle these tasks?
And, every group for this type I've found, only want to do the smite run, and 'local' Aatax, and then resign. Gah, thats annoying. Had a few runs of ecto drops 3 for the other person, 0 for me, and not getting squat from the run.
My question I pose is, how does one know when and who to choose as their partner? Or is everyone else just lucky enough to know someone already that can handle these tasks?
Lourens
Nice guide looking forward to farm in the underworld 
looking forward to farm in the underworld
Rushin Roulette
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larcen
My question I pose is, how does one know when and who to choose as their partner? Or is everyone else just lucky enough to know someone already that can handle these tasks?
Dont go with a monk / necro that calls them selves PRO55/SS... 99% of the time they will be completely useless. Ive found that it helps to bring 2 Res signets for the case that the monk is completely useless... [Resurrection Signet] and [Sunspear Rebirth Signet]... allthough be carefull with the rebirth sig... because contrary to regular rebirth... it resurrects... then teleports the Monk which means that you have to leg it pretty damn fast to get rid of agro.
After a while you get to know a few Partners which you can add to your friendslist.
After a while you get to know a few Partners which you can add to your friendslist.
cerb
Hey guys - small update:
I've had more time lately to work on The Mists and you can expect it within a few weeks. For those interested - it is going to be a repository for complete, well-formatted, well-written and imaged farming and general guides from the best GW guide authors out there.
We will also host challenges such as speed runs in farm, speed vanquishing, and anything that interests the community. I've also started thinking of a system that would ease finding partners for farming/general-purpose gaming (i.e.: people would leave their IGN and what they are seeking - for instance 2 men UW clearing - and you could search amongst the players to find those that match your search criteria). Another possible features would be interviews articles with top notch farmers and those who achieved something worthy of mentioning :-)
I will also rewrite parts of this guide, redesign the pictures, and include Hard Mode info (yes you can clear UW in HM with a 2-men team, and it takes about the same time as NM)
Keep an eye out for the project!
I've had more time lately to work on The Mists and you can expect it within a few weeks. For those interested - it is going to be a repository for complete, well-formatted, well-written and imaged farming and general guides from the best GW guide authors out there.
We will also host challenges such as speed runs in farm, speed vanquishing, and anything that interests the community. I've also started thinking of a system that would ease finding partners for farming/general-purpose gaming (i.e.: people would leave their IGN and what they are seeking - for instance 2 men UW clearing - and you could search amongst the players to find those that match your search criteria). Another possible features would be interviews articles with top notch farmers and those who achieved something worthy of mentioning :-)
I will also rewrite parts of this guide, redesign the pictures, and include Hard Mode info (yes you can clear UW in HM with a 2-men team, and it takes about the same time as NM)
Keep an eye out for the project!
xxx wraith xxx
The mists...seems like an awsome project
Tzalaran
i've got a couple more questions. i've been watching the videos that you posted and trying to apply what i see done there to my own playing. i'm not having much trouble as the SS, but when it comes to 55ing i completely fail.
from 600 tanking i've learned the grasping timing on interrupts, and i can usually cast around their interrupts. the ones that are giving me problems are Aatxes and charged blacknesses. Aatxes seem to always interrupt my SoA casts (the spell i always avoid using against them when 600ing because of it getting interrupted), and charged blacknesses seem to cycle their knockdowns such that they interrupt SoA, then Healing Breeze or spellbreaker and then the 55 dies. (i'm using the clear build for the most part, as that is the goal for the teams that i'm working with, the times that i've gone in with the build for the first 4 quests i haven't had trouble with being interrupted)
are there any tips on how to cast to avoid these interrupts? like graspings always use their interrupt first, and if you get SV/AV on the tank after that they don't interrupt again, but i've not figured out a pattern on the other two... How can i draw their interrupts out so that they don't equal instant death and game over?
Thanks for any assistance, and i have to say that the music used in the videos is very catchy.... i've had one of the songs in my head for the past week.
i'm not usually a dance music fan, but i have to admit liking your selections. 
from 600 tanking i've learned the grasping timing on interrupts, and i can usually cast around their interrupts. the ones that are giving me problems are Aatxes and charged blacknesses. Aatxes seem to always interrupt my SoA casts (the spell i always avoid using against them when 600ing because of it getting interrupted), and charged blacknesses seem to cycle their knockdowns such that they interrupt SoA, then Healing Breeze or spellbreaker and then the 55 dies. (i'm using the clear build for the most part, as that is the goal for the teams that i'm working with, the times that i've gone in with the build for the first 4 quests i haven't had trouble with being interrupted)
are there any tips on how to cast to avoid these interrupts? like graspings always use their interrupt first, and if you get SV/AV on the tank after that they don't interrupt again, but i've not figured out a pattern on the other two... How can i draw their interrupts out so that they don't equal instant death and game over?
Thanks for any assistance, and i have to say that the music used in the videos is very catchy.... i've had one of the songs in my head for the past week.
i'm not usually a dance music fan, but i have to admit liking your selections.
cerb
Tzalaran:
The necro has to cast SV/AV on the monk against large groups of Aatxes and Graspings (such as those you see in my screenshots). The monk pre-casts Breeze and SoA but waits until SV's on him before renewing SoA (even if it has ran out by then). That is specified in the guide =) That's if you don't have Mantra of Resolve, of course.
As for Charged Blacknesses, do not cast SoA. PS and Breeze is more than you need to keep you alive. If you must though (such situation might happen in Spawning Pools), cycle through the Charged Blacknesses and wait until they've all used Shock, and keep in mind it is renewed every 10 seconds. You can use the "last sources of damage" counter on your screen to help as well.
Hope that helps!
The necro has to cast SV/AV on the monk against large groups of Aatxes and Graspings (such as those you see in my screenshots). The monk pre-casts Breeze and SoA but waits until SV's on him before renewing SoA (even if it has ran out by then). That is specified in the guide =) That's if you don't have Mantra of Resolve, of course.
As for Charged Blacknesses, do not cast SoA. PS and Breeze is more than you need to keep you alive. If you must though (such situation might happen in Spawning Pools), cycle through the Charged Blacknesses and wait until they've all used Shock, and keep in mind it is renewed every 10 seconds. You can use the "last sources of damage" counter on your screen to help as well.
Hope that helps!
Zhoul
I would like to ask one small thing:
Are Dying Nightmares weak against Holy Damage, or does it make no difference at all (whether it's Holy, Fire, etc)?
Are Dying Nightmares weak against Holy Damage, or does it make no difference at all (whether it's Holy, Fire, etc)?
cerb
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhoul
I would like to ask one small thing:
Are Dying Nightmares weak against Holy Damage, or does it make no difference at all (whether it's Holy, Fire, etc)? Makes no diff.
Are Dying Nightmares weak against Holy Damage, or does it make no difference at all (whether it's Holy, Fire, etc)? Makes no diff.
zelgadissan
Ferris Buehler you're my hero.
Feel free to replace Ferris Buehler with Occasion Caucasian if so desired.
Feel free to replace Ferris Buehler with Occasion Caucasian if so desired.
Demon Drone
This guide is amazing and all. But I have a question about the other UW. The one you spawn from the Tomb of Primeval kings. It's like a totally different version. Why is that?
Avarre
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon Drone
This guide is amazing and all. But I have a question about the other UW. The one you spawn from the Tomb of Primeval kings. It's like a totally different version. Why is that?
Originally you entered the Heroes' Ascent Arena from there, a sort of knockout progression tournament in which the final map was The Hall of Heroes. ANet changed ToPK to a PvE zone (in 2005 I believe) using 4 of the PvP maps as PvE areas, and relocated the PvP entrance to the Battle Isles.
The first level was called The Underworld (the lowest point in the Ascension to the Halls), and hence, there are now two PvE zones called the Underworld.
The first level was called The Underworld (the lowest point in the Ascension to the Halls), and hence, there are now two PvE zones called the Underworld.
17695800
very,very nice!!!!
thank you!
thank you!
Evil_Necro
LOVE THE BESTIARIES!! :0
*thumbs up*
*thumbs up*
pogi8
well....
LETS TRY IT OUT!!!
nice guide!!!!!
LETS TRY IT OUT!!!
nice guide!!!!!
Dae GW
I think this isn't doable anymore cerb, because of the chaos plains nerf,
hex breaker counters SS
mindflay spectres have signet of disenchantment
etc.
hex breaker counters SS
mindflay spectres have signet of disenchantment
etc.
cerb
I wouldn't go as far as saying that. Our HM strategy uses a hybrid SS/Smiter and does not need SS to kill Mindblades.
I have Guild Wars uninstalled atm and no time to reinstall/get back into the game right now but about Mindflay Spectres and Cursed Dream Riders - give me a map of them (and the spawns) and I'll tell you what to do
edit: ok, I'm pretty sure I have a counter-strategy but to be sure I need to know:
- Where the Cursed Dream Riders spawn
- How and where the Mindflay Spectres spawn (3-6-9 like Mindblades?)
I have Guild Wars uninstalled atm and no time to reinstall/get back into the game right now but about Mindflay Spectres and Cursed Dream Riders - give me a map of them (and the spawns) and I'll tell you what to do
edit: ok, I'm pretty sure I have a counter-strategy but to be sure I need to know:
- Where the Cursed Dream Riders spawn
- How and where the Mindflay Spectres spawn (3-6-9 like Mindblades?)
Dae GW
The blue dots are the cursed dream riders spawns. The mindflay spectres spawn exactly the same as the mindblade spectres ( 3 - 6 - 9 and location is the same too )
By the way: The CURSED dream riders don't have enchant removal, in fact, they have exactly the same skills as a banished dream rider. But the mindflay spectres have sig of disenchantment and the mindBLADE spectres have hex breaker now.
cerb
Well according to that map, it looks quite possible to do this: go right (as seen on the map, not in-game), grab everything in the center while the necro hides behind the reaper (near where you see the text "Reaper of the Chaos Planes" on the map), and kill everything there. One wave of mindflay spectres will spawn but you will not be killing it and it shouldn't prevent you from doing the Four Horsemen.
Dire Nova
we just dont kill the cursed dream riders...
Antedilvian
The guide is awesome!!
Could someone tell me the artist and song name of the song in the "unwanted and escort - nec view" (the first 10 mins) video pls?! Its a gr8 song!
Could someone tell me the artist and song name of the song in the "unwanted and escort - nec view" (the first 10 mins) video pls?! Its a gr8 song!
snoozer80
Is this possible to do this run after 2nd July update? I mean Signet of Disenchantment and Hex Breaker added to spawning mobs.
MrGuildBoi
Those were removed.
Kabbu
nope they weren't hex breaker is still on so it is only possible without hexes but ss is a hex or with a stance remover so the build has to be changed or there needs to be a third person
My Lipgloss is Cool
Could this not be done simply by using IP to remove Hex Breaker, and then SS right after it? How fast is the AI at reapplying?
On the bigger groups, RH would be out of the question, as the necro would probably get spiked by the Hex Breaker damage.
On the bigger groups, RH would be out of the question, as the necro would probably get spiked by the Hex Breaker damage.
They See Manolis
dude i didnt even read the whole thing and u wrote all that???
nice tho
nice tho
cerb
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabbu
nope they weren't hex breaker is still on so it is only possible without hexes but ss is a hex or with a stance remover so the build has to be changed or there needs to be a third person
Like My Lipgloss said, you could break it with IP. Actually, you should first cast SV on your monk in order to make sure that they can't put it back up, then break it with IP and then go for SS.
In hard mode you don't have to worry about it at all, since you kill mindblades with Holy Wrath/Retrib.
On a side note, MrGuildBoi's statement has made me wonder and do some research on both wiki's (I never found an answer), can anyone confirm that the Mindflay Spectres disappeared along with the Cursed Dream Riders? I've been away from the game for the past few months so I'd like to be updated on that subject considering I still have a working guide up!
In hard mode you don't have to worry about it at all, since you kill mindblades with Holy Wrath/Retrib.
On a side note, MrGuildBoi's statement has made me wonder and do some research on both wiki's (I never found an answer), can anyone confirm that the Mindflay Spectres disappeared along with the Cursed Dream Riders? I've been away from the game for the past few months so I'd like to be updated on that subject considering I still have a working guide up!
Kabbu
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerb
Like My Lipgloss said, you could break it with IP. Actually, you should first cast SV on your monk in order to make sure that they can't put it back up, then break it with IP and then go for SS.
In hard mode you don't have to worry about it at all, since you kill mindblades with Holy Wrath/Retrib.
On a side note, MrGuildBoi's statement has made me wonder and do some research on both wiki's (I never found an answer), can anyone confirm that the Mindflay Spectres disappeared along with the Cursed Dream Riders? I've been away from the game for the past few months so I'd like to be updated on that subject considering I still have a working guide up! ok i dont know what IP and SV are ^^" could you tell me which skill those are?
and yes the mindflays and cursed disappeared and there are more keeper of souls at each spot/spawn one or 2 i think
oh ok i know what ip and sv are but the mindblades are ranged now so sv shouldn't trigger and how can ip break hexbreaker? the necro will just get damage from hex breaker and the hex wouldnt be on the mindblade
In hard mode you don't have to worry about it at all, since you kill mindblades with Holy Wrath/Retrib.
On a side note, MrGuildBoi's statement has made me wonder and do some research on both wiki's (I never found an answer), can anyone confirm that the Mindflay Spectres disappeared along with the Cursed Dream Riders? I've been away from the game for the past few months so I'd like to be updated on that subject considering I still have a working guide up! ok i dont know what IP and SV are ^^" could you tell me which skill those are?
and yes the mindflays and cursed disappeared and there are more keeper of souls at each spot/spawn one or 2 i think
oh ok i know what ip and sv are but the mindblades are ranged now so sv shouldn't trigger and how can ip break hexbreaker? the necro will just get damage from hex breaker and the hex wouldnt be on the mindblade
Scarn
IP= Insidious Parasite
SV= Sympathetic Visage
Also Cerb, I don't think SV will prevent the use of Hex Breaker, due to the Mindblades being ranged now. I also don't believe that Mindflays still spawn.
SV= Sympathetic Visage
Also Cerb, I don't think SV will prevent the use of Hex Breaker, due to the Mindblades being ranged now. I also don't believe that Mindflays still spawn.
cerb
Aw, what a random change. Then, as you said SV is useless. The necro will now need Mantra of Resolve as well since you cannot drain their energy, therefore they will use Migraine and interrupts. That question is quite a though one for me seeing I have no possibility of testing it, i.e.: I am away from home, I do not have Windows installed on this computer and this internet connection is as slow as dial up.
If I took a guess, I'd believe that as soon as you remove their Hex Breaker, they immediately recast it. If that guess is correct, then - on a first thought - the solution would be to scroll through Mindblades and find one who just recently activated Hex Breaker and target him with IP then SS. Obviously do not cast RH. This would be quite slower than before though.
As I stated above, if you do UW in Hard Mode then you don't have to worry about that because you can kill Mindblades with HW and Retrib.
Well those are pretty much my tips for the moment, I am in the impossibility to test it so my suggestions can only come from feedback. Keep me updated!
If I took a guess, I'd believe that as soon as you remove their Hex Breaker, they immediately recast it. If that guess is correct, then - on a first thought - the solution would be to scroll through Mindblades and find one who just recently activated Hex Breaker and target him with IP then SS. Obviously do not cast RH. This would be quite slower than before though.
As I stated above, if you do UW in Hard Mode then you don't have to worry about that because you can kill Mindblades with HW and Retrib.
Well those are pretty much my tips for the moment, I am in the impossibility to test it so my suggestions can only come from feedback. Keep me updated!
Scarn
From what I've found, after they use hexbreaker the first time, they use their spells which drains them of energy. The AI seems to give spells priority over hexbreaker, which results in no hexbreaker after a period of time.