I believe level difference is a variable in damage calculation. So with a higher or infinite level cap in GW2 do you think it should be that way?
Should a lvl 40 have an advantage over a lvl 20, with all gear/skills equal, since he put in more time? Obviously the higher level player is more devoted, more loyal, and more talented so why would he not deserve to have some special means to show or make use of these facts? Why shouldn't he be able to lord over noobs who aren't even anywhere near his level. I mean they're noobs ffs!!! They deserve to be dominated!!! Eventually they can level up and pwn low lvl nubs too so what's the problem??
Pouring out the pwnage
Taki
Veripare
Or the higher character is a power gamer and rushed through the game or purchases Powerleveling from a third-party.
On topic; riverside isn't a suggestion forum..
On topic; riverside isn't a suggestion forum..
I pwnd U
You should be able to dominate "noobs" right now. The difference in the skill level is what should decide it, not the level. If you are a better skilled player you should be able to beat a level 20 nub no problem. And while yes a level 40 should have an advantage over a level 20 (if that is what the level cap will be) it shouldn't mean that the level 40 can kill the 20 no problem. Plus there will plenty of level 40 "noobs", just because someone reached the level cap doesn't mean that they are more skilled. Just means that they put in alot of time, time=/=talent. Sorry, but no.
Dylananimus
It's rather an unfair advantage over people who may not have as much time to play to be honest. It completely takes away the casual ellement of GW :/
If you lvl to a lv 20 cap (or whatever it will be) but still gain some advantage if you put in more hours after that, that would make the game terribly unbalanced I would think. Unless they're going to have PvP like WoW in which you compete at different levels, which means you could be level 20, but when enter PvP only get put up against other people of your 'actual' level...which means you're both on an equal footing.
Playing more hours doesn't make you less of a noob either
If you lvl to a lv 20 cap (or whatever it will be) but still gain some advantage if you put in more hours after that, that would make the game terribly unbalanced I would think. Unless they're going to have PvP like WoW in which you compete at different levels, which means you could be level 20, but when enter PvP only get put up against other people of your 'actual' level...which means you're both on an equal footing.
Playing more hours doesn't make you less of a noob either
MithranArkanere
That would be in GW2.
In PvP there will be no difference, it will be like 'everyone is level 20'.
The difference would exist only in PvE, where there will be level 99 enemies and things like that. So that's ok.
In PvE some 'grind' is allowed since it's roleplaying, and in roleplaying your character may have skills you cannot have, like a guy with IQ 70 playing as a über-suppah-genious mage.
But in PvP it's just 'what you can do vs what others can do'.
In PvP there will be no difference, it will be like 'everyone is level 20'.
The difference would exist only in PvE, where there will be level 99 enemies and things like that. So that's ok.
In PvE some 'grind' is allowed since it's roleplaying, and in roleplaying your character may have skills you cannot have, like a guy with IQ 70 playing as a über-suppah-genious mage.
But in PvP it's just 'what you can do vs what others can do'.
The Way Out
I hope to someday be a level twenty noob! lol...
I agree, there are too many bad players in the game as is, and that will carry over to the next game. Personally, I enjoy having the current skill/rune placement system determining the worth of the player. I am still amazed at some of the creations people come up with in PvE when they don't play with anyone... like the ever rare warrior/minion-master? Or monk/barrager??? Great builds that carry you on to leetness!!!
I agree, there are too many bad players in the game as is, and that will carry over to the next game. Personally, I enjoy having the current skill/rune placement system determining the worth of the player. I am still amazed at some of the creations people come up with in PvE when they don't play with anyone... like the ever rare warrior/minion-master? Or monk/barrager??? Great builds that carry you on to leetness!!!
Kattar
Gw = Balance. (or it's supposed to at least)
If you don't want balance, go play something else. The designed the game so it wouldn't be like other games, the names of which I won't mention.
It's really just as simple as that.
*sits back and waits for The Way Out to flame*
If you don't want balance, go play something else. The designed the game so it wouldn't be like other games, the names of which I won't mention.
It's really just as simple as that.
*sits back and waits for The Way Out to flame*
The Way Out
Why would I flame you, guild wars is "supposed" to be balanced. However, it isn't. People who own all the campaigns have an advantage over someone who has just Prophecies and Factions. Someone who just own's Prophecies misses out on a lot of inscribable weapons, unless they enjoy grinding Elites in ToA (Hard Mode) so they can get them in end chests.
Guildwars also forces the player to rely upon intelligence as opposed to level volume... which translates into an unbalanced game where intelligent people trump dumbasses. Smart people don't die fifty million times to get from point A to point B because they understand time, the enemy AI and aggro, and have common sense.
Guildwars is a very unblanced game in the sense that anet tends to cater to the noob. The player that figures out the uber leetsauce build gets nerfed because the player that just spams three skills can't win. Do you disagree with that?
Guildwars also forces the player to rely upon intelligence as opposed to level volume... which translates into an unbalanced game where intelligent people trump dumbasses. Smart people don't die fifty million times to get from point A to point B because they understand time, the enemy AI and aggro, and have common sense.
Guildwars is a very unblanced game in the sense that anet tends to cater to the noob. The player that figures out the uber leetsauce build gets nerfed because the player that just spams three skills can't win. Do you disagree with that?
Kattar
No, for once I don't disagree with you at all. That's exactly how I feel about the game. It supposed to be skill > time, but sometimes that isn't the case. As you brought out.
Unfortunately, imho, the game isn't broken enough for this to be fixed. It works ok as it is, so I figure we'll have to wait for GW2 for this system to be perfected.
I really wish the casual player didn't have to be a noob. Heh.
Unfortunately, imho, the game isn't broken enough for this to be fixed. It works ok as it is, so I figure we'll have to wait for GW2 for this system to be perfected.
Quote:
| Guildwars is a very unblanced game in the sense that anet tends to cater to the noob. The player that figures out the uber leetsauce build gets nerfed because the player that just spams three skills can't win. |
Rocky Raccoon
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Way Out
I hope to someday be a level twenty noob! lol...
I agree, there are too many bad players in the game as is, and that will carry over to the next game. Personally, I enjoy having the current skill/rune placement system determining the worth of the player. I am still amazed at some of the creations people come up with in PvE when they don't play with anyone... like the ever rare warrior/minion-master? Or monk/barrager??? Great builds that carry you on to leetness!!! |
You play as you like and let others play as they like and don't put them down for doing so. Leetness is just a bunch of bull.
quickmonty
In the almost three years that I have been playing this game I have seen ANET make a lot of changes that cater to the noobs. That is, the game has gotten easier in a lot of aspects. I could list a page and a half of things that I have seen, but I won't 
I fear that GW2 is going to continue this trend. So, if they raise the level cap to 40, or 60, or 30000000000 they will also make it so easy to reach that level that there won't be any "pwning of noobs" going on.
I fear that GW2 is going to continue this trend. So, if they raise the level cap to 40, or 60, or 30000000000 they will also make it so easy to reach that level that there won't be any "pwning of noobs" going on.
Kattar
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Originally Posted by Risky Ranger
If someone enjoys playing the game but isn't up to some peoples level of play, that makes them a bad player? If they are having fun what does it matter?
You play as you like and let others play as they like and don't put them down for doing. Leetness is just a bunch of bull. |
As long as they will accept direction and skill suggestions I don't mind them. I've helped out numerous newbs that actually needed help with things like skills or whatever.
It's the people that act like they know exactly what they're doing when they don't, and don't want anyone to tell them otherwise that gets them kicked. That's the only time that how you play matters.
Taki
Sorry, wasn't clear in the OP. I'm talking about the non-instanced PvE side of things.
For pvp the level diffrences will be balanced by everyone being on the same footing once they travel through the mists etc etc
For pvp the level diffrences will be balanced by everyone being on the same footing once they travel through the mists etc etc
Fril Estelin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Taki
... since he put in more time? Obviously the higher level player is more devoted, more loyal, and more talented so why would he not deserve to have some special means to show or make use of these facts?
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1) this is ridiculous as time means nothing; for example, afkers and "weak" players that would take ages to finish a mission have spent loads of time but do not have a "talent" (to use your words); for some people, the time spent in MMOs is a huge waste as it means absolutely nothing in the real world (that should be everyone's priority, unless you want to live FOR the dream world or we're in the Matrix). No problem with having fun, but taking it too seriouly leads to this kind of ideas and threads.
and
2) your fellow GW player may want to put on top of the pedestral other things, such as maxed titles, rarest items or even worse: money! Isn't the player that invests loads of money the most "devoted, loyal" (to use your words)? This is the typical "e-peen" scenario where everyone (and in particular young players) attempts to be the e-king of the GW world one way or another. You're all inferior to us, the rare group of elite players.
I'm sure that the really best players, in the sense of devotion/loyalty/talent are probably enjoying the game as it is. Only arrogant people would want everyone to see where they are and only greedy people would want more. I sincerely hope you're neither of those!
A fellow GW player.
The Way Out
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Risky Ranger
If someone enjoys playing the game but isn't up to some peoples level of play, that makes them a bad player? If they are having fun what does it matter?
You play as you like and let others play as they like and don't put them down for doing so. Leetness is just a bunch of bull. |
If you enjoy playing the game and you are not up to my level of play... then isn't that unbalanced? If you are having fun... why does this post bother you?
Also, I play to the utmost of my ability, which means that I excel at the game. Other people can play here and there and reap those kind of bland rewards. Weekend gaming doesn't do it for me. Understand? Also, when I use the word leetness... or leet... I refer to people that understand the game... have the skills without being asked to buy them... know how to use them... know how to use your skills... and know how to complete the game as fast and easy as possible.
An Elite player imho, doesn't spam lfg in a district for four hours. An Elite player doesn't get stuck at Gate of Madness or Napui Quarter and give up on the game. Do you understand?
I don't even call myself leet. However, I am extremely good at the game. Don't get upset with a post I put up claiming the game is unbalanced. It is. Lastly, if you were looking for me to start a flaming war, I won't. I only flame people that start to flame me or troll about looking for attention. They are easy and fun targets. I get them all riled up and laugh when they eventually look dumb. It is a hobby.
Fril Estelin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Katsumi Rikyu
It's not that, it's a matter of "the noob" acting all awesome and not wanting to take any advice when you're in a pug or whatever. See the builds that Way Out mentioned...
As long as they will accept direction and skill suggestions I don't mind them. I've helped out numerous newbs that actually needed help with things like skills or whatever. It's the people that act like they know exactly what they're doing when they don't, and don't want anyone to tell them otherwise that gets them kicked. That's the only time that how you play matters. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noob#Nub
We've ALL been newbies without exception, but only noobs should be blamed for their stupidity. Blaming newbies is actually harming the GW community and the spirit of the game (and elitism usually leads to this kind of attitude).
Kattar
Yeah, I know what you mean there.
Noob = bad.
Newb = just a new player, not necessarily bad.
That's what I meant anyway.
Noob = bad.
Newb = just a new player, not necessarily bad.
That's what I meant anyway.
Rocky Raccoon
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Originally Posted by The Way Out
I will try not to flame your comment, because you are also from Massachusetts... hehe.
If you enjoy playing the game and you are not up to my level of play... then isn't that unbalanced? If you are having fun... why does this post bother you? Also, I play to the utmost of my ability, which means that I excel at the game. Other people can play here and there and reap those kind of bland rewards. Weekend gaming doesn't do it for me. Understand? Also, when I use the word leetness... or leet... I refer to people that understand the game... have the skills without being asked to buy them... know how to use them... know how to use your skills... and know how to complete the game as fast and easy as possible. An Elite player imho, doesn't spam lfg in a district for four hours. An Elite player doesn't get stuck at Gate of Madness or Napui Quarter and give up on the game. Do you understand? I don't even call myself leet. However, I am extremely good at the game. Don't get upset with a post I put up claiming the game is unbalanced. It is. Lastly, if you were looking for me to start a flaming war, I won't. I only flame people that start to flame me or troll about looking for attention. They are easy and fun targets. I get them all riled up and laugh when they eventually look dumb. It is a hobby. |
The Way Out
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Originally Posted by Risky Ranger
I disagree with you on the point of finishing the game as quickly as possible. I like to play the game at a slow pace, to enjoy the scenery, help those who need, etc. I don't want to beat the game I just want to play it and have fun.
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Rocky Raccoon
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Originally Posted by The Way Out
Once you do the whole... wow this is cool thing... you repeat it? That sounds like "Groundhogs Day" with Bill Murray.
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Dylananimus
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Originally Posted by The Way Out
Once you do the whole... wow this is cool thing... you repeat it? That sounds like "Groundhogs Day" with Bill Murray.
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You can play again and again, but never repeat the same process exactly.
Dylananimus
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Originally Posted by Taki
Sorry, wasn't clear in the OP. I'm talking about the non-instanced PvE side of things.
For pvp the level diffrences will be balanced by everyone being on the same footing once they travel through the mists etc etc |
"they can level up and pwn low lvl nubs too so what's the problem" ... maybe they have more of a life and don't have the priviledge of being able to play day in day out?
Sure, you could 'gank' lower levels like in WoW, but where does that get you exactly? Need to do that to feel better about yourself? Hmmm...me thinks somebody should go and play WoW
Just my opinion though of course.
Fril Estelin
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Originally Posted by The Way Out
Don't get upset with a post I put up claiming the game is unbalanced. It is.
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Taki
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Originally Posted by Fril Estelin
Just to point at the obvious: you're putting on a pedestral the time you've invested in the game, but:
1) this is ridiculous as time means nothing... |
.And Dylananimus, you "pwn" ppl by wiping out their spawn/boss/quest objective, luring a mob they can't handle to their location, with an added bonus of pk'ing them as well if allowed. But if you can't kill other pve players then how do you 'discourage' that type of behaviour?
zwei2stein
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fril Estelin
We've ALL been newbies without exception, but only noobs should be blamed for their stupidity. Blaming newbies is actually harming the GW community and the spirit of the game (and elitism usually leads to this kind of attitude).
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Fril Estelin
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Originally Posted by Taki
Unfortunately the obvious isn't always that obvious on the internet
. |
l33tness is an illusion, because the moment you put the finger on it by trying to see whether you or someone else is l33t it transforms into something bad (arrogance, greed, etc.). The "trully" l33t people simply ARE and do not ask themselves the whys and hows. And the best people go one step beyond by how helpfull and how they contribute to the community (GWG has the best and the worst of it!).
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
This should be one of MOTDs on login screen.
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But people will complain if you propose this. Unfortunately there's no law or universal reason to force people to be kind and in particular to new players. Or to realise that superiority is in the eye of the beholder.
The Way Out
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Originally Posted by Fril Estelin
l33tness is an illusion, because the moment you put the finger on it by trying to see whether you or someone else is l33t it transforms into something bad (arrogance, greed, etc.). The "trully" l33t people simply ARE and do not ask themselves the whys and hows.
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Also, I once hear a quote (don't remember who said it), that was something like... Poets intentionally muddy their waters so they appear deeper than they really are. I think that fits you.
There are leet players and there are average players. There are arrogant leet players and there are humble ones. Stop trying to pass your retarded philosophy into the forum. I find it arrogant myself. This started as something totally different and you hijacked the thread with your nonsense.
Antheus
GW2 PvE will be grindfest. Prepare for it. Everything will be level based, but not in such mild manner as GW, but in the most hard-core way. Yes, there will be level 88 noobs, if 90 is max level, who'll never get grouped.
Of course, there will be side-kick system. The end result will be - sure, you can grind as much as you want for pointless rewards, or get into a guild and get side-kicked and be useless ornament in the group - your skills won't scale. Put differently, it would be the same as bringing a pre-searing monk into DoA via side-kick system. They'd be level 20, but they'd have starter armor and only orison for healing. That's what side-kick system is.
PvP will be more WoW-like. Warm bodies will matter more than brain behind them. With every profession self-sufficient, with all skills being normalized, the focus will be more on being there than contributing. This is why even organized groups in WoW arena have caused so much outcry - they simply wiped the floor in a world that was unfamiliar with coordination and tactics.
GW has shown that time > skill is much better formula for game longevity. And while original appeal of GW was the exact reverse - MMOs are about appealing to masses.
And while many will go on how GW is dead, the exact opposite is true. As far as numbers go, GW has aged surprisingly well, given its relative lack of content. And the reason for this is mostly transition to time-based achievements.
Like it or not, grind (and its implementation via levels/titles/item raids) is the primary appeal of MMOs.
Of course, there will be side-kick system. The end result will be - sure, you can grind as much as you want for pointless rewards, or get into a guild and get side-kicked and be useless ornament in the group - your skills won't scale. Put differently, it would be the same as bringing a pre-searing monk into DoA via side-kick system. They'd be level 20, but they'd have starter armor and only orison for healing. That's what side-kick system is.
PvP will be more WoW-like. Warm bodies will matter more than brain behind them. With every profession self-sufficient, with all skills being normalized, the focus will be more on being there than contributing. This is why even organized groups in WoW arena have caused so much outcry - they simply wiped the floor in a world that was unfamiliar with coordination and tactics.
GW has shown that time > skill is much better formula for game longevity. And while original appeal of GW was the exact reverse - MMOs are about appealing to masses.
And while many will go on how GW is dead, the exact opposite is true. As far as numbers go, GW has aged surprisingly well, given its relative lack of content. And the reason for this is mostly transition to time-based achievements.
Like it or not, grind (and its implementation via levels/titles/item raids) is the primary appeal of MMOs.
Dylananimus
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Originally Posted by Taki
And Dylananimus, you "pwn" ppl by wiping out their spawn/boss/quest objective, luring a mob they can't handle to their location, with an added bonus of pk'ing them as well if allowed. But if you can't kill other pve players then how do you 'discourage' that type of behaviour? |
And Anet have already stated that kind of thing won't happen, or they will take measures to stop it happening.
I fail to see the point the OP is making, other than assuming spending endless hours hunched over a computer somehow makes you 'better' *shrugs*
enter_the_zone
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Taki
Unfortunately the obvious isn't always that obvious on the internet
.And Dylananimus, you "pwn" ppl by wiping out their spawn/boss/quest objective, luring a mob they can't handle to their location, with an added bonus of pk'ing them as well if allowed. But if you can't kill other pve players then how do you 'discourage' that type of behaviour? |
Have I mentioned today how much I hate playing with other people most of the time? Bad enough to have morons in your party, but I'm not living with that PK shit in PVE.
Fril Estelin
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Originally Posted by The Way Out
In your opinion... leetness is an illusion... yet it exists??? WTF is wrong with you?
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Quote:
| Poets intentionally muddy their waters so they appear deeper than they really are. I think that fits you. |
Quote:
| Stop trying to pass your retarded philosophy into the forum. I find it arrogant myself. This started as something totally different and you hijacked the thread with your nonsense. |
GG to the humble l33t guy, who's obviously not chatting on this epic thread.
Balan Makki
I'm guessing there won't be levels in GW2, "Much has changed since those early interviews" to paraphrase a founder of Arena Net.
Don't be suprise if levels can be toggled on and off as they mean absolutely nothing to the viability of a player.
In PvP, levels would be the death of GW.
Don't be suprise if levels can be toggled on and off as they mean absolutely nothing to the viability of a player.
In PvP, levels would be the death of GW.
enter_the_zone
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Way Out
In your opinion... leetness is an illusion... yet it exists??? WTF is wrong with you?
Also, I once hear a quote (don't remember who said it), that was something like... Poets intentionally muddy their waters so they appear deeper than they really are. I think that fits you. There are leet players and there are average players. There are arrogant leet players and there are humble ones. Stop trying to pass your retarded philosophy into the forum. I find it arrogant myself. This started as something totally different and you hijacked the thread with your nonsense. |
Other people will tell you if you are leet, it's not something you can decide for yourself, no matter how good you think you are.
Un-muddy enough?
Jecht Scye
ArenaNet is a business. If new players enter the game and are way out-leveled by people who have all campaigns(I mean WAAAAY out-leveled), they'll get discouraged and won't buy other campaigns. I don't mind the way ArenaNet runs their balancing, or the way they help out the average noob. I've been playing for 3 years and have alot of experience(albeit, mostly PvE), but I don't mind the occasional nerf of a build now and then. Real good players adapt and change
Celestial_Kitsune
Oh wow, people even quote Nietzsche without reading what others said lol
People who grind should not receive benefit of higher attributes.
How it should be:
- You attributes cap and low level (about 20)
- Level becomes only an indicator of total xp after L20
How it will be based on the GW2 interviews:
- The attribute gain will be retained after L20
- The attribute gain will be scaled
People who grind should not receive benefit of higher attributes.
How it should be:
- You attributes cap and low level (about 20)
- Level becomes only an indicator of total xp after L20
How it will be based on the GW2 interviews:
- The attribute gain will be retained after L20
- The attribute gain will be scaled
Mohnzh
What would also be a nice (PvE) feature to keep level as more of an indication of skill is to not scale the attribute gain for monsters, and institute a loss of experience when killed. In a situation like this, people will eventually encounter mobs they just cannot defeat once they reach their own personal max level. If they attempt, they must either improve or they will de-level.
For PvP I think they should keep it similar to now where all the levels are set the same and your own personal skill is all that determines the outcome.
For PvP I think they should keep it similar to now where all the levels are set the same and your own personal skill is all that determines the outcome.
Taki
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Originally Posted by Fril Estelin
Wrong. The Internet is a medium, it does not change anything that is said. A lie is still a lie, a truth still a truth. But we're not discussing facts here, rather opinions. And there's always room for interpretation,
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I'm more interested in what ppl think about PKing/griefing in pve and how they think it could be prevented/controled without a PK system in place. I.E. If a higher lvl player decides to grief you, what can you can do besides cry and log? And even if you could fight back, how would you overcome the level difference if it was to be included in damage calculations?
Dylananimus
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Originally Posted by Taki
If a higher lvl player decides to grief you, what can you can do besides cry and log? |
BlackSephir
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Taki
I believe level difference is a variable in damage calculation. So with a higher or infinite level cap in GW2 do you think it should be that way?
Should a lvl 40 have an advantage over a lvl 20, with all gear/skills equal, since he put in more time? |
Quote:
| Obviously the higher level player is more devoted, more loyal, and more talented so why would he not deserve to have some special means to show or make use of these facts? |
Quote:
| Why shouldn't he be able to lord over noobs who aren't even anywhere near his level. I mean they're noobs ffs!!! They deserve to be dominated!!! Eventually they can level up and pwn low lvl nubs too so what's the problem?? |
Quote:
| In PvE some 'grind' is allowed since it's roleplaying |
Where the hell do you have "grind" in definition of role-playing? Another genius who'll enlighten us all that grind isn't separable from rpgs.
HawkofStorms
We have no idea how the damage mechanics will work in GW2.
So therefore, why are we discussing it.
To paraphrase Malice "Every time a GW2 thread is created, God kills a kitten."
So therefore, why are we discussing it.
To paraphrase Malice "Every time a GW2 thread is created, God kills a kitten."