My rambling thoughts on the community.

before i even start typing this i know people will want to ask "what is the point of this thread?" or if im lucky they will simply tell me to QQ moar.

the thing that has really deterred me from being an active member of the guru community is that it is full of elitist pricks, no names mentioned please. the kind of people are the ones who say that no titles take effort. all titles can be ebayed or cheated and thus the one you get is worthless. the ones the constantly moan about xx being unbalanced, and how anet phail because skill > time seems to apply less than it did before.

i just want to say, i think anet rock, they are doing an amazing job, especially when you consider the limitations given by the business model they use. THANKYOU

i just wish the community would stop bashing them just because anet realise that the few QQers on this forum are NOT representative of the parent population (by that i mean only a very small minority of players post on this forum)

the other moans i hear far to often are people complaining about how the game is grind related?

let me just point out a few things.
~~to complete the game and the storyline, you never ever have to grind.

~~to get titles, you grind. the titles are in no way required to finish the game.

to get certain armours, you grind. the high end armours are in no way required to finish the game. you dont HAVE to grind rank 5 norn to get that armour, there is max armour available for less than 10k per full set. it IS possible to get 10k by playing through the game.

to get shiny weapons, you grind. these are in no way needed to finish the game, you can buy cheap greens for any profession for 1k each... chors axe, malinons shield, flints fleshcleaver, murukais maul, etc etc etc.

never ever in the game are you FORCED to grind. they are all OPTIONAL activities, for those of us who actually WANT grind. yes there are some of us. we want the ability to in some way show that we have been playing the game a long time and played it to its fullest potential, yet those ways have no benefit apart from looking pretty.

some people have tried to convince me that they NEED to grind to max titles because they want to take them to the HoM for unlocks in GW2.

notice the WANT in there. the unlocks for GW2 will not be ones which offer some obscene benefit. wether or not its been confirmed, i am 110% sure that any benefits given will be vanity items. something pretty to show off. i know this because i have common sense and it is obvious by how anet works.


people moan about things like the party title, drunkard, sweet tooth, etc, because its a title you buy. but surely to buy the titles you need the money in the first place, you need to earn it through trading, farming, etc. and just because it POSSIBLE to ebay gold doesnt mean everyone does it. if someone does, whoop de doo they ruin the game for themselves... but they dont ruin my game. i still have my achievements. also most people dont ebay.

to put things bluntly, there is a group of people in the community who constantly put-down everything someone achieves, says, or does. I am very proud not to be one of those people. if you got protector of tyria, congratulations. if you maxed drunkard.... il drink to that. if you IWAYed your way to a bambi, nice job everyone has to start somewhere. if you have LDoA title, nice job i know first hand how much dedication it needs. if you moan because you think ursan is too powerful..... sorry i dont sympathise with the fact that you dont want newer players to access the areas you can.

peace and love guys.
cheer up moar

<3<3<3 James <3<3<3


_____-
ps i just saw 'makosi' has this awesome avatar.
and i think it applies here.

allthough i desperately dont want this to turn into another ursan thread. the point still remains that i think anet are doing a great job.

If you know people are going to think your post is flamebait, then why take the time to post?

So, basically this is just a collection of the arguments you have with people on the forums?

Hmm....don't know if this can be considered a legitimate thread. Granted, I don't disagree with anything you're saying, but I do think this is gonna get out of hand pretty quick.

Plus, rambling thoughts are usually locked/deleted pretty quick.

PvE skills don't make you look pretty, but they give you a significient advantage.
Try to PuG DoA as a Mesmer without UB...

10k faction can be accumulated in under an hour. i dont call that grind. there are quests which give upwards of 750 faction and take 10 minutes. 10k faction in AB is easy, even if you lose matches.

you dont need to pug DoA as a mesmer.

you can complete the game without pve skills. i have done it.

you are looking at this wrong. the point of this thread is to say that i am not one of the people who does the above mentioned QQing, and to see if there are indeed other people who think the same.

and to maybe make a place on this forum pointing out that no, we dont all think anet phail.

*edit* sorry for the double post, kinda didnt realise i was doing it, dont know how to merge them but a mod can feel free to merge them?

I have no problem with the initial grind that GW had. Such as elite armor and rare weapons. As they are completely optional and add no level of advantage to the game.

I have a problem with grind that rewards you with an advantage. PvE skills and titles. If you dont grind them you end up weaker than someone who does.


I will also add the optional grind titles im also not a fan of. I would much rather see achievements be skill based than grind based, but as long as they offer no advantage I dont have a problem with them being there.

Oh ok, I see where you're coming from then.

I seem to remember a "GJ Anet" thread last week that got closed though. That's what I meant.

- Eh? Isn't disagreeing with the importance of titles rather anti-elitist and elitism would be to disregard those who don't have desired features (e.g. titles)?

- So you're nothing but opposite side of the coin? This black&white no-reasons-asked kind of thinking is what truly wrecks the atmosphere for intelligent discussion.

- Should we all just start chanting "Gaile is the greatest person" so that she would be here cheering with us with the flower emote? If there's problem with the software or poor design decisions made it's imperative that people should voice their opinion about them. What if there was no extra storage, no observer mode, no skillbalances? Those kinds of things players wanted? It would be the crappiest game on the market.

Most of the other things you said, however, sound reasonable.

True true true. You can earn all 10k in quests designed to do just that. Quests =/= grind.

But I have to say this about this forum. It takes all kinds. And you're going to encounter all kinds in the real world as well... for the rest of your life. I've found that accepting people as they are rather than wanting them to fit into my own prescribed mold is the best way for me to stay sane and happy.

Of course you can.
You can also complete the game in NM with starter armor, weapons and presearing skills.

But it would be stupid to consider that it will be as easy as if you buy max armor and weapons, and have a working build.

BTW I'm all for optional grinding if people like it. It just should not give players who do it advantages, or people would rather go play WoW, which is actually designed for grind. One should only look at how bad GW status is now, while WoW is still running...

The point is, that there is no point. I agree with the OP 100%. I have recently quit Guild Wars because I have accomplished everything that I wanted to accomplish and have done all of the things I have considered fun to the point where they were no longer fun. However, the main reason I just did not start a new character is because I hate all of the elitest assholes that plague this game and the community sites. The only reason I even bother coming back to these forums and others like it, is to see if any new content, patches, fixes or tweaks have been released that would rekindle my interest and to remind myself of the community and how bad it is and why I refuse to subject myself to it any longer.

I've thought long and hard about these things and I find them to be for the most part, not arguable.

-THERE IS NO GRIND
You can complete all missions, story lines, elite missions, acquire maxed armor and maxed weapons merely by playing through the game and the quests. Anything needed beyond that is only used for vanity purposes and gives no added benefit. If you want these skins bad enough to grind, you cannot complain. Period. Faction can be acquired through doing the quests, SS and LB points are the same way and none of these have to be maxed in order to complete something.

-IF YOU DON'T LIKE SOMETHING, DON'T PLAY/BUY/USE IT
If you have a problem with 15k armor.....DON'T BUY IT, STUPID! If you have a problem with Ursan.....DON'T USE IT AND DON'T JOIN PARTIES THAT USE IT, STUPID! If you have problems with the fact that everyone uses this or that skin for whatever.....DON'T USE IT, LOOK AT IT OR BUY IT, STUPID! All of these things are VANITY based products, you don't need them, so shut up about it. Ursan is just a lazy mans tool to get through hard areas. They don't tell you how to run your builds, don't tell them how to run theirs, STUPID!

-YOUR BUILD SUCKS AND MINE IS BETTER BECAUSE I KNOW EVERYTHING
No, you don't. There is always someone smarter than you. Unless you've never died, you are no better than the next guy, so shut up and let others play as they wish.


You people play a game with no subscription fee. Think about that. I find it kind of amusing that this community is probably one of the more volatile in the MMO universe and it's one of the only non-subscribable MMO's. Not to mention in all senses it really is kind of a baby or starter MMO. Not to complicated, not to big, but not to easy as to become dull. It's the perfect MMO to start out on and move into bigger ones. Yet the people of this community are the most elitest, rude, obnoxious and over absorbed people I have ever met, in any community from any game. Sad.

Also, take this QQ fad and stuff it up your asses.

Why can people not dislike part of a game and discuss ways for it to be improved without them being labled or told to stop with the QQ?

Im not against Ursan or grind because I think only top players should be able to do stuff, im not against it because I want to be the only one with max titles etc.

Im against it because in my opinion it has a negative effect on the game.


Why can people not state an opinion and discuss it?
You are fully welcome to disagree, but just telling people to shut up and to stop with the QQ etc doesnt get anyone anywhere.

I'm all for discussion and improvement but the problem is the way it's "discussed" whenever I see a thread TRYING to suggest an improvement it gets beaten to death by people that don't understand the meaning of a civilized discussion. So instead of people weighing the good AND the bad of the supposed improvement they just weigh the bad. So it just ends up turning into a flame war until a mod closes it or takes the time to delete all the crap posts.

Find me one thread on this forum where someone suggested something or tried to discuss something that they didn't like, found annoying or thought was over/underpowered, that wasn't thrown into a furnace of "noob, qq, you suck, horrible, dumbass, etc etc" comments.


OHH YES, because no one can make their own mistakes and learn from them! We must all listen to the all knowing PvX wiki Gods and their all knowing build database, because anything else is sub-par and subject to routine ridicule.

And people wonder why the meta-game has gone stale.....

Honestly, to post on (or read) ANY forum, you simply have to develop a thick(er) skin.

For every observation or suggestion someone makes, it's the natural tendency for someone to post their thoughts on it if they disagree with your position, rather than if they concur.

Because of that, forums such as this are often viewed as "being negative" or as a place where you "might be attacked".

That couldn't be further from the truth - I think most of us have the desire to make GW continue to be a pleasurable experience. Yet, much like the local news, negative responses tend to get people's attention more than positive responses. Combine that with the phenonmenon I described above, and I can see how someone could come to that conclusion, however.

The one thing I truly abhor, however, are the QQ posts you refer to above. Seriously, if you don't have anything to add to a thread other than "QQ", you might as well not post...it adds absolutely nothing to the conversation at hand (or the overall quality of the forum). I would personally rather see a "/not signed" than a "QQ" or "lolcat" or whatever inane one word quip people like to add simply to make themselves feel better and/or popular...at least a /signed or /notsigned indicates a general agreement or disagreement with the topic.

I don't use cookie-cutter builds.
In fact, I run my Ele with a dual attunes air build, and previously with a water build, because I like big yellow numbers. I just discovered they were on PvX today, because my bf gave me the link. She has SF unlocked, but I just hate playing it, and if anyone kicks me for not playing it, screw them.
I also have a blood build on my Necro, and I have a PvE Mesmer. Usually, I take an elite I like and complete it with normal skills. The only moment I look at PvX is when I'm noob at a profession and don't want to screw up with it.

But using PvE skills DO give an advantage.

I don't think they are bad, PvE should be separated from PvP ; but I never understood why they weren't linked to attributes.
The way they are implanted makes them not a choice to use or not, but a choice to change your way of playing or get screwed.

1. The Meta game is stale due to some balancing issues.
2. Wouldn't be much better, if instead of running a clearly bad build and doing an ineffective job, I were to advise them, even if it was vague and general play tips?
3. Thinking PvX is good, is for noobs, seriously.

Being nice is all well and nice, and I too get sick of major QQs, but I dislike carebears just as much, reality is harsh, even if it's in a game.

I think people need to concentrate more on running the absolute best builds told to them by the absolute best players in the game rather than concentrating on having fun. If not, we should ridicule them until they leave.

BTW, I agree 100% with the original poster.

Aww c'mon, your totally exaggerating the attitude of the actually good players in the game (and by good, I mean all the high end GvGers that don't run gimmicks). Are they really that bad for trying to help others, just because they are not carebears who forgive mending wammos for using riposte, does that mean they are bad?

/tsk.

There are not nearly enough grind based rewards to cry about grinding, IMO. The grind isn't even that bad compared to other games. Seriously, PvE skills and their titles are not grind. You get rank four at least if you play through the GW:EN campaign and do some dungeons on the side. At rank four, most skills function in a way that is worth your cause. Not to mention in Nightfall, the sunspear skills are supurb, and you get rank six sunspear by completing the campaign, maybe one point farming run on the side.

Now, Islelith, I'm going to take advantage of your open invite to disagree. PvE grind titles don't take enough grind to gain the advantage provided that it's anything to complain about, IMHO.

Don't forget that the whole point of PvE skills is that...you can only use them on monsters. Thus, saying 'you're weaker' is a far less relevant. Sure, in a one-on-one "you kill these monsters, they kill those" situation, someone with a maxed PvE title-linked skill might do marginally better, but the whole POINT of PvE is that you work together toward a common goal. Competitive strength comparisons are beyond stupid when there is NO COMPETITION. And if your party dumps you because one particular skill you had was both PvE and "insufficiently titled" in comparison to someone else...then they're a party of tards, and you're better off without them.

Seriously: the JOY of GW is that you really, really DON'T need to grind for anything, ever. Max armour is easily crafted, max weapons likewise. Almost always, you will have the necessary materials (or funds) by the time you can craft those things, just by playing normally. Camping a dungeon for four weeks to get an essential shoulderpad (or similar) is NEVER going to happen. Sure, you might have to farm destroyer cores to get a special set of gloves, but you will never NEED to: that set of gloves will be utterly optional, and utterly superfluous.

So, yeah: OP, /signed. Definitely.

Well I have to say I feel it is, hence the reason I'm against it.

PvE skills and title effects are optional when you can complete areas as fast as someone of equal skill who does have them without using them yourself.

i agree with this wholeheartedly. if there is a broken feature or something desperately needed im all for us pushing improvements. but day in day out we see people rather than giving constructive input, they label anet as omgwtfbbq epic PHAIL. and when people give constructive input they get bashed.

Play PvP. Your opinion will change.

But why? Look at other games. Months of grinding to gain advantages. In some, over a year of hardcore playing to reach the top of the ladder when it comes to a few skills/titles/attributes. Guild Wars is nothing compared to them. Sure, you can compare it to other things in guild wars itself, but nothing there takes significant time. It only looks like enough because nothing else is even close.

So because other games are worse it makes it better?

I base it on what I enjoy and what I dont. Im not saying there is or isnt to much. Im saying for me there is to much. That the ammount there is has a negative effect for me.

While by another game or someone elses standards it might have very little what people are looking for in games varies vastly.

It all comes down to how you look at it. You see Guild Wars as Guild Wars, I see it as just another gameplay style compared to other games like it. But I suppose there's nothing more to say than we disagree on this point.

I'll say what I dislike more than any QQers or people who complain about QQers are the people who post in nearly every thread on Guru, asking for a mod to close the thread.

1. A forum is for discussion, so what is a forum without opposing sides?
2. If you get opposing sides, you're bound to get debate. If you can't get used to it in here, I'll say you'll probably be suffering later on in the corporate world.

Agree to disagree ftw.

As much as I try not to get involved with these kind of threads...
...
I agree 100% with the OP... <.<

*EDIT* And btw 10k faction is the work of an easy afternoon... Some people can make that in an hour...
If you won't even work that hard (which takes 8 AB games at the very most), then you have no business playing a Role Playing game. Besides, all the quests they send you on in the meantime more than help reach that number.

I agree with OP , but Dan the Noob is right.

PvP got boned out of Favor system, HoH drops (with zaishen chest), LONG title grinding (you can't argue pvp titles take a long long time lol).

PvP definately got the short end of the stick, people can argue, but ask anyone just how satisfied they are with pvp compared to before.

Someone saying QQ to everything is not an opposing opinion, it's a flame and degenerates the discussion to the point of liquidating the mind into a shapeless lump similar to a violent car crash.

If you were standing at a bus stop and someone asked you which presidental canidate you were voting for and then after you replied, they said "Well, I disagree and here's why.", you would continue to have a debate with that person.

If the same person screamed "YOU NEED TO VOTE FOR MY GUY AND BELIEVE WHAT I BELIEVE BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T YOUR A FAG AND YOU NEED TO FIND A PLACE TO GO QQ SOME MORE!", you'd probably punch them in the face.

I agree with the above. That said the OP & CougarThe Tall imparticular made some good points.

If I may offer my opinion as a relatively new player. . .

Certain aspects of the game are outstanding. Yesterday I was having a bad day and just figured I'd wander off & explore a little. I ended up quite far from any Outpost and the game crashed.

When I re-started it took me right back to where I was. Saved me tons of time trying to get back there.

I've been learning how to play not using any pre-builds. When I finally made it through Dasha Vestibule using my own skill bar I had a sense of accomplishment.

As far as making money . . .

Like everybody I want to be rich. As CougarTT stated in his post though, I can get everything I NEED by completing missions.

To make some cash I participated as much as possible in the Canthan holiday then sold off 30K in fireworks. This gave me enough gold to buy myself a pet and some new armour, things that are nice but not needed.

My character is finally progressing so I'm hoping I can learn some "farming" techniques.

On Titles . . .

I really like the idea of the Titles. I think some people may be obsessed with attaining them but for me they're a nice little reward.

Again, some of theses titles can be gained just through normal game-play (those are the only ones I'll ever get).

The community here . . .

I have to say that in the short time I've been coming here I've found it to be overall a good group of people. That's why I decided to kick-in a donation.

You're always going to have trolls and people flaming but compared to some forums I go to this place is nothing.

I've also noticed that Gaille posts here. Nice to have a person from Anet that actually posts on a forum giving accurate information.

In conclusion . . .

What I like about GW (NF at least) is that it rewards you for playing the game as intended but doesn't FORCE you into the cookie-cutter player mold.

I've just completed quests and so far I've gotten Sunspear Castellan & Lightbringer titles and I'm about 2% shy of my first explorer title.

I know they may be the easiset titles to get in the game but guess what?

They're mine & I earned them by having fun. Isn't that what it's all about?

I think sometimes people go over the top when they criticise Anet but most of the time they're just trying to help Anet to improve the game.

Another thing: I don't understand all the hatred for PvX wiki, it's really helpful to beginners who aren't uax'ed and can't afford to buy lots of skills.

Would you rather mess around with a mending war and have 'fun' getting wiped or learn how to play good builds and become a better player?

Most of those 'elitist pricks' are that way because they don't want to want sub-par people dragging them down, especially when it comes to PvP or high end area's that take a lot of effort to do.

It's just like work, would you like to team up with somebody who's stupid and useless? Of course not, you'd want to team up with someone a similar level to you or better so you can learn. I'm sorry that's the way the world works.

I dislike titles but i am pretty sure loads of people love them too, fair play to them. They had to give us something to do until GW2 comes out. Titles are quick and easy to implement which allows Anet to spend more time on GW2; it's a lot better than nothing.

That’s just my opinion, for the record 90% of the time I try and help people, give advice and not be rude.

The 10% would be GvG (when people aren't doing they're job) and when i am tired and just can't be bothered - i am sure that happens to everyone.

The simple fact is that half the people I see who make mistakes NEVER learn, EVER, they still go on thinking their mending wammo is good. "They'll learn from their mistakes" is good in theory, but far from in practice.

"Elitist pricks" will always exist, but so will retarded noobs in denial who never see their own mistakes.

.

QFT.

Except that it seems most any person who poses an opposing argument, complains about any aspect of the game, or shows his dislike for Anet (unlike the OP who's lavishly piled it on) these days is called QQ. And thus runs the high risk of getting his thread or a random other thread he's posting in, closed. So exactly defined by whose terms?

Actually, I'd be more inclined to take someone a little weaker than I am at work. Then I'd be able to teach them, hopefully bringing them up to my level in order to be a suitable partner, or a valuable asset somewhere else.

If they prove actively hostile to learning, of course, then I'd reconsider.

To the OP:

I'm not going to repeat my own personal beefs here, because they'd just be muddying the waters in this particular discussion, except to mention that I do have them... and yet Guild Wars is still high enough up in my list of games of choice that I frequent a forum devoted to it. However, going to the core of the issue, there's a quote I think is relevant here. I can't remember exactly how it goes or who said it, but the general gist is:

"The true patriot is not the one who refuses to hear any criticism of his nation, but who does everything in his power to improve it."

With the exception of the odd player who's abandoned GW for WoW and is trying to encourage others to do the same, the OMGIMQUITTING4EVAH crowd, and other such lowlife, everyone who posts a criticism of the game on the board is doing so out of honest intent to make the game better. You might disagree on whether they're right, and I might disagree on whether their right, and the two of us may disagree on whether they're right or not, but at the most basic level, they're all trying to do what they can to improve the game with the tools they have available.

All that said, some people could stand to be a little more polite in the way they couch their criticism - it's for their own benefit after all. People are more like to read and think about an argument that is presented politely, after all, while if they feel unsulted they're much more likely to stick their heels in... and I'm sure that goes for the development team as much as it does for other posters.

I don't find this forum to be especially welcome to newcomers, and quite frankly, the majority of so-called "experts" who post here take the game (and their relative importance in it) far too seriously. Constructive criticism is one thing - sarcastic, inflammatory, and demeaning criticism is another. Telling people to develop thicker skins is such a cop out - and why on earth should people change their perceptions to accommodate your anti-social and bellicose natures? Funny enough, the people who advise others to do so are often some of the thinnest-skinned individuals in the game, if their responses to perceived insults is any indication. Flaming is so much easier when you're hiding behind the anonymity of the internet, but see how far that gets you in real life. This entire board is /epicphail, given the service it purports to offer the GW community.

To the OP

Yes, there are many QQers in this forum, which is why i participate in this forum. Instead of posting a mere thread to antagonise them, set an example by being helpful, arguing in a civilized manner and ensuring newcomers to behave properly.

What leaves me perplexed is the level of maturity that members have. Things such as cat pictures annoy me to the very core, causing me to usually type /requestlock whenever i see one. Furthermore, many posters feel that the internet allows them to leave their brain and maturity somewhere in the other room, allowing cheap, fruitless behaviour to take place.

These are such things i despise. But it is hypocritical of you to ramble against something which is the exact opposite of what you see it as.

Perhaps i shall bring this bleak black and white outlook with a colourful example.

It is like the communist arguing his tiredness of the fascist.

You argued points against grinding, ursan etc. i completely agree with you. But such is the difference of thoughts between people, and while you think reaching level 17 or commander is not a grind, another would find it extremely tedious, particularly if they have done the quests required on 3 characters already.

overall however you are right. People are just not willing to adapt i guess

I think there is a lot of truth in that statement. I'm relatively new here and was excited to find this board so I could learn more about the game and to hopefully have some questions answered that I have had for some time. Being new to this board, but not boards in general, I used that very little known search button to look stuff up before posting. After finding people with the same questions I had and the "answers" given to them, I was less than elated. I figured either everybody already knew the answers and found it necessary to berate the OP, or they had no idea but felt it necessary to berate the OP in order to look cool. Instead of this being a tremendous resource, it was a tremendous dissapointment. I'm guessing it has to do with the average age/maturity level of the users. Oh well, it's not a perfect world I guess.....

*Sigh*
There's an old addage we old farts used to say alot:
A community is what YOU make of it.
I haven't seen many of the naysayers-complainers that are posting in this thread NOW...post many encouraging, uplifting..humble posts on guru before?
A little humility, and good sportsmanship goes a long way.
Myself personally..being as my english sux you know what, preffer the more humerous approach, but..at least it gets my points across...

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