So we all know that it is possible to become a god by deafting one then absorbing said gods power, such as Kormir has done to Abbadon and Grenth to Dhumm.
My question is, do you think Grenth could be a charr? The skull certainly isnt human.
The origin of Grenth?
Azael Durge
Danius
If Grenth was a Charr, he would be a Charr god...
Balthazar and the Goddess of Truth are the only two 'human' gods.
Balthazar and the Goddess of Truth are the only two 'human' gods.
Tatile
Grenth is no longer human, and has been around for a fair while. Given the power the Gods seem to have, perhaps he chose to change his appearance, or in the strange way that mythology and worship works, his followers changed his appearance?
Maybe he was a goat, too bad we can't ask him
Maybe he was a goat, too bad we can't ask him
Free Runner
Charr hate the 6 gods altogether. I doubt one would go through the trouble of defeating and becoming one of them.
Its true Grenth could of changed his form to be more death like. However if he didnt whatever he was it wasnt human. He reminds me of a Gaki.
Its true Grenth could of changed his form to be more death like. However if he didnt whatever he was it wasnt human. He reminds me of a Gaki.
mazey vorstagg
I agree with Gaki,
Look:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/images/e/e8/...ungry_Gaki.jpg
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Image:G...al_Gandara.jpg
although, it is interesting if he was a gaki as they're very rare and currently mysterious creatures. If he's a gaki then they must be as intelligent as humans.
Look:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/images/e/e8/...ungry_Gaki.jpg
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Image:G...al_Gandara.jpg
although, it is interesting if he was a gaki as they're very rare and currently mysterious creatures. If he's a gaki then they must be as intelligent as humans.
Eldin
I still believe that the Gods' true forms, if they have one, are not necessarily human. Naturally as us humans look on them as great beings, we imagine them as being very visually appealing and so we depict them in our statues and murals (remember they are the works of us humans) as appearing in the form most familiar and appealing to us - other humans.
But yeah, I have always questioned why Grenth's mural has that odd skull. Perhaps it's the skull of some creature that symbolizes everything Grenth stands for?
Or maybe it's one of those generic bull skulls you see in deserts in the cartoons.
But yeah, I have always questioned why Grenth's mural has that odd skull. Perhaps it's the skull of some creature that symbolizes everything Grenth stands for?
Or maybe it's one of those generic bull skulls you see in deserts in the cartoons.
Azael Durge
Oh, it definatly resembles the gaki more than the charr. I have never seen, or at least noticed, the gaki before.
And as for the whole "They arent human but look like that because it appeals to use." thing i dont go with that idea really, Abbadons murals look pretty close to the imprisoned Abbadon.
And as for the whole "They arent human but look like that because it appeals to use." thing i dont go with that idea really, Abbadons murals look pretty close to the imprisoned Abbadon.
draxynnic
On the other hand, the god avatars (the ones that appear at shrines, to a much lesser extent the ones a Dervish transforms into) aren't the result of human artwork, and at least a couple of those appear human - implying that if there is an element of humanocentrism in depicting those gods as human, it's one that the gods themselves have done nothing to dispel. It's also worth mentioning that the old gods did actually live on Tyria once, and that people back then may actually have seen the gods in order to make depictions of them.
'Course, there's nothing to say that the gods can't take whatever form is convenient at the time, so what humans think they are may have absolutely nothing to do with who they really are.
'Course, there's nothing to say that the gods can't take whatever form is convenient at the time, so what humans think they are may have absolutely nothing to do with who they really are.
shoyon456
oh wow, the gaki thing is something i never thought of before...
At any rate, I doubt Grenth was human. Seems to me that Grenth became a God before humans were put/born in tyria, Ill have to check wiki/game manual though to confirm that
At any rate, I doubt Grenth was human. Seems to me that Grenth became a God before humans were put/born in tyria, Ill have to check wiki/game manual though to confirm that
Operative 14
If we're going by looks alone, perhaps Grenth is a Mursaat?
Though I have to agree, I've never seen a Gaki before (never really delved into Echovald myself) but they do bear a visible resemblance to Grenth.
Though I have to agree, I've never seen a Gaki before (never really delved into Echovald myself) but they do bear a visible resemblance to Grenth.
Mechz
The Gods used to roam the lands. Remember that guy who beat Balthazar in a boardgame, and got his skull crushed for it? x]
In other words, the depictions of the Gods may not be entirely off.
In other words, the depictions of the Gods may not be entirely off.
Sophitia Leafblade
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Originally Posted by Danius
If Grenth was a Charr, he would be a Charr god...
Balthazar and the Goddess of Truth are the only two 'human' gods. |
Having said that Melandru seems to be the template for the Sylvari as presumably her Ascension to God-hood has evolved her into that form over the eons. Presumably the longer you are a god the less human like you become (Abaddon being the oldest of all the gods until his defeat, and his replacement being the most human like god as she is the youngest)
RiKio
I think Grenth is a cross of:
-A goat
-A drunken necromancer with no idea of what is he doing with the goat.
-A goat
-A drunken necromancer with no idea of what is he doing with the goat.
B. Dent
I believe the goat head/skull to be a just a mask or a representation of of the qualities that are associated with death. ie.
goat=stubborn
death= stubborn
or like how in some cultures the family members of the recently dead would have mask cast of the person's face. or like how the sarcophaguses(sp?) had a face on them. or something like that.
goat=stubborn
death= stubborn
or like how in some cultures the family members of the recently dead would have mask cast of the person's face. or like how the sarcophaguses(sp?) had a face on them. or something like that.
![[M]agna_[C]arta](/static/static/../Img/avatar118311_19.gif){kind=avatar}
[M]agna_[C]arta
Dwayna is the oldest, She created Melandru and Balth, She's the Mother.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dwayna
Dunno with, Dhuum nor Abaddon, So Abaddon isn't the First XP, ^^.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dwayna
Dunno with, Dhuum nor Abaddon, So Abaddon isn't the First XP, ^^.
Free Runner
Quote:
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Originally Posted by [M]agna_[C]arta
Dwayna is the oldest, She created Melandru and Balth, She's the Mother.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dwayna Dunno with, Dhuum nor Abaddon, So Abaddon isn't the First XP, ^^. |
In fact its never said anything about Balthazar or Melandru being created.
Gmr Leon
Quote:
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Originally Posted by B. Dent
I believe the goat head/skull to be a just a mask or a representation of of the qualities that are associated with death. ie.
goat=stubborn death= stubborn or like how in some cultures the family members of the recently dead would have mask cast of the person's face. or like how the sarcophaguses(sp?) had a face on them. or something like that. |
Big G
Quote:
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Originally Posted by B. Dent
I believe the goat head/skull to be a just a mask or a representation of of the qualities that are associated with death. ie.
goat=stubborn death= stubborn or like how in some cultures the family members of the recently dead would have mask cast of the person's face. or like how the sarcophaguses(sp?) had a face on them. or something like that. |
^
Cows skull
right? ;P
Fangclaw
Thats right... I looked at the wiki, but didnt find anything. Maybe you confused it with the lore of another MMO, or real-life Mythology (Greek, for instance...).
I believe that Grenth is either a human wearing a mask, or the representant of a long-gone species. Who knows? Dont gods have all kinds of powers? Including the one to change their appearance...
I believe that Grenth is either a human wearing a mask, or the representant of a long-gone species. Who knows? Dont gods have all kinds of powers? Including the one to change their appearance...
Eldin
The mask probably symbolizes something, though in his statue Grenth just looks like an old man wearing robes and with funky facial hair.
Remember, there is speculation that Abaddon may have worn a mask.
If Grenth is supposed to resemble death in the least, his face is probably INCREDIBLY unpleasant looking...
Remember, there is speculation that Abaddon may have worn a mask.
If Grenth is supposed to resemble death in the least, his face is probably INCREDIBLY unpleasant looking...
Azael Durge
I stumbled across an article about greek mythology and it turns out Lyssa was a greek goddess (Of madness), She is the daughter of Nyx(Night, death etc.) Nyx is a primordial god, perhaps the other gods have real life links and maybe these links will relate to yet unkown lore.
Usurp
Just a note (somewhat on topic).
This idea of defeating a god and assuming its power is not new to GW. In the Dragonlance series Time of the Twins, Raistlin (one of the most powerful wizards of all time) defeated the gods of Krynn and assumed total power.
This idea of defeating a god and assuming its power is not new to GW. In the Dragonlance series Time of the Twins, Raistlin (one of the most powerful wizards of all time) defeated the gods of Krynn and assumed total power.
Accursed
I believe Grenth challenged Dhumm to a face off of some kind. Grenth ended up winning and the stakes were that if Grenth won, he'd become the God of Death.
Tatile
That's a fairly good idea Blizzard, but it does imply that either Dhumm was really bad at chess and got beaten by a mortal, and that he has/d a very relaxed approach to mortals (see what Grenth did to those two brothers? Being a mountain can't be fun) or that Grenth was already a being with power beyond a human.
A demigod perhaps? It could be plausible that he 'ascended' from his previous position (a lesser god of chill, or something) to his current one after the challenge and defeat of Dhuum.
A demigod perhaps? It could be plausible that he 'ascended' from his previous position (a lesser god of chill, or something) to his current one after the challenge and defeat of Dhuum.
Vicks
Maybe He's Just Wearing The Skull As A Hat
Mark Nevermiss
I think Grenth was just another Kormir of sorts; he tagged behind until the poor guys had done the dirty work and then lo and behold Grenth rushes ahead and absorbs the leftover energy and takes over, becoming the new boss.
Rasaek
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Originally Posted by The Guild Wars Manuscripts
[...]the way to true power is by bowing down at the foot of the god of death and ice [...]
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Originally Posted by The Guild Wars Factions Manuscripts
Statues [...] depict the god with [...] the narrow, skeletal head of a beast; Canthan artists tend to add a draconic look to the skull.
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Originally Posted by The Guild Wars Manuscripts
Often, there are followers at his feet, grasping toward his open, clawed hands, clamoring for the powers[...]
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Originally Posted by Zratha Kor
The ignorant view [...] our cold god as tainted by evil. It is nothing of the sort. Grenth invites you to cast aside all the illusions of this world and judge things truly as they are.
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Originally Posted by GuildWiki
Grenth wasn't always the god of death, and it is unclear what Grenth was before he became a god.
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Originally Posted by Official Wiki
He has defeated Dhuum, the former god of death, in such an easy way that, "It was humiliating." as Dhuum had said, in the Realm of Torment.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Reaper of the Chaos Planes
Before the time of Grenth, when death was ruled by a cruel and unjust god, there stood a tower and a throne on this very plain. But Grenth rose up and destroyed the one called Dhuum and shattered down his tower[...]
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What was he before? All this is of course speculation, but Dhuum's overthrow was supposedly related to his cruelty and injustice. This and other references suggest Grenth (aside from Death itself) is associated with power, clarity, justice and judgement, cold (although these last two may come with the death domain), vengeance and sacrifice.
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Originally Posted by Inscription on Statue of Grenth
And asketh she, "Where is the god to whom I may give my undying devotion? Where is the God to whom I may beg revenge against those who scorn me?"
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Originally Posted by Guild Wars Nightfall Manuscripts
Worship of Grenth requires sacrifice. [...] many of these statues have piles of bone and ivory beneath them, left as offerings by anonymous and fearful commoners. When life is difficult, zealous worshipers leave offerings of flesh and sinew[...]
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Mr Fizzle
Maybe he just found a skull and thought it looked imitatading(sp?)and decided to wear it.
Konig Des Todes
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mark Nevermiss
I think Grenth was just another Kormir of sorts; he tagged behind until the poor guys had done the dirty work and then lo and behold Grenth rushes ahead and absorbs the leftover energy and takes over, becoming the new boss.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rasaek
Dragons and bulls (which the skull looks strikingly similar to) share one thing: they are symbols of power. The skull is the symbol of death, of course; perhaps his beast-skull is meant to represent power through death, or power in death. Death is not a human or Charr domain, or even a domain of sentient creatures, such as war or magic might be considered to be, it affects all of nature.
The beast-skull might also serve as a reminder that he is not, or not as, "human" (or Charr, etc) as the other gods, perhaps a reminder of the clarity and cold rationale of the god of death, uncluttered by merely human/mortal emotions, delusions and illusions... I don't think his appearance should be interpreted literally, the skull clearly symbolizes an aspect of his nature, and the beast aspect is a reference to "power" and/or the fundamental difference between his nature and that of sentient mortals. The simplicity of this part of the statement, "rose up and destroyed," could be an implication that Grenth was already a powerful spiritual or demonic entity in the Rift. How he defeated Dhuum is not worthy of a lengthy explanation because the simplest answer is the correct one. Grenth was already a powerful entity in his own right, and being a demon or deity, it's not a complete mystery regarding how he could get to and/or defeat his adversary. The bizarre beast-skull he is portrayed with in my opinion reinforces this: he was never a mortal to begin with. What was he before? All this is of course speculation, but Dhuum's overthrow was supposedly related to his cruelty and injustice. This and other references suggest Grenth (aside from Death itself) is associated with power, clarity, justice and judgement, cold (although these last two may come with the death domain), vengeance and sacrifice. Anyway, my own opinion is that Grenth was a spirit of coldness and just vengeance... or a lesser deity of power and sacrifice... or something along those lines. |
Maybe the other gods helped him out in some way *more then they helped us out with Abaddon, all they did was sent us in with Abaddon chained to centuries old chains.*
-Old 3FL-
I think that the God's in their true forms are mere etheral spirits with tremendous power.
However, they can change their form to be seen by living creatures, and as Grenth was to be the god of death, he would need a deathly figure?
And he looks pretty death like to me
However, they can change their form to be seen by living creatures, and as Grenth was to be the god of death, he would need a deathly figure?
And he looks pretty death like to me
beregond
Once upon a time, Guild Wars was in development, and when coming up with names for the gods, Grenth became one, so thus the origin of Grenth. 
Mist Walker Skarloc
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Originally Posted by beregond
Once upon a time, Guild Wars was in development, and when coming up with names for the gods, Grenth became one, so thus the origin of Grenth.
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Anyway, on topic, regarding Dhuum's power being taken by Grenth; what happened to Dhuum? (And Abaddon)? They un-deified, but where did they go from there? They can't have died, because nobody really dies (they just go to the Mists, their physical body dies), so would they just become ordinary dead souls in the Realm of Torment or somewhere equally unpleasant? Perhaps Dhuum now acts as Grenth's slave? What are people's ideas on this?
The only thing is, if Dhuum surrendered his power to Grenth, why are his followers, well, his followers? He lost his position as god of death, what kind of power does he have over a horde of demons?
Nazar Razak
hmm, Am i right to assume that no-one has seen Grenth, meaning that all depictions of him are basically just representations. Tyria, Cantha and Elona being connected to each other, probably just share the same vision.
For all we know, on the other side of the GW world, there could be a continent that depicts Grenth as a Rabbit.
For all we know, on the other side of the GW world, there could be a continent that depicts Grenth as a Rabbit.
Mist Walker Skarloc
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Originally Posted by Nazar Razak
hmm, Am i right to assume that no-one has seen Grenth, meaning that all depictions of him are basically just representations. Tyria, Cantha and Elona being connected to each other, probably just share the same vision.
For all we know, on the other side of the GW world, there could be a continent that depicts Grenth as a Rabbit. |
Fangclaw
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nazar Razak
hmm, Am i right to assume that no-one has seen Grenth, meaning that all depictions of him are basically just representations. Tyria, Cantha and Elona being connected to each other, probably just share the same vision.
For all we know, on the other side of the GW world, there could be a continent that depicts Grenth as a Rabbit. |
The gods did live on Tyria, in Arah, the city of the gods, wich was the capital city and epicenter of the now sunken kingdom of Orr.
And since humans lived in that city as well (at least I assume so), then it would mean that Grenth had to have been seen by mortal eyes. Thus the depictions that represent him mustnt be that far off from the truth.
But, given the nature of humans, we cant really say for sure that this is really what Grenth looks like. As for the shared vision of the 3 continents, Orr was an island nation, and to the center of Tyria/Elona; and since they were into trade, it could've spread their ''vision'' of what the gods look like.
But that could also mean that the images Canthans have of the gods as they now know them havent been there for more than 4 or 5 hundred years.
There are just so much variables and possibilities its mind-bugging.
poasiods
Just few things after reading the entire thread...
It's homocentrism, not humanocentrism.
Also, Orr was a peninsula, not a red gored island.
It's homocentrism, not humanocentrism.
Also, Orr was a peninsula, not a red gored island.
General DS
[Speculation] I don't see the "gods" living on the earth, or even showing theirselves to us. Maybe they are just extremely powerful beings that had magic and strength beyond many things. They could go to and from the mists at anytime they wanted to, because of their powerful magic.
They granted magic to us as a game to see how we would evolve.
Maybe the ones we worship as gods arn't really gods, But the true gods rule the ones we see. [/speculation]
ontopic
Maybe grenth was at a haloween event and got a Cow skull as the event hat? :P
They granted magic to us as a game to see how we would evolve.
Maybe the ones we worship as gods arn't really gods, But the true gods rule the ones we see. [/speculation]
ontopic
Maybe grenth was at a haloween event and got a Cow skull as the event hat? :P
Scythe O F Glory
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Originally Posted by Fangclaw
The gods did live on Tyria, in Arah, the city of the gods, wich was the capital city and epicenter of the now sunken kingdom of Orr.
And since humans lived in that city as well (at least I assume so), then it would mean that Grenth had to have been seen by mortal eyes. Thus the depictions that represent him mustnt be that far off from the truth. But, given the nature of humans, we cant really say for sure that this is really what Grenth looks like. As for the shared vision of the 3 continents, Orr was an island nation, and to the center of Tyria/Elona; and since they were into trade, it could've spread their ''vision'' of what the gods look like. But that could also mean that the images Canthans have of the gods as they now know them havent been there for more than 4 or 5 hundred years. There are just so much variables and possibilities its mind-bugging. |
Konig Des Todes
The depiction of the gods might have been lost sometime after the exodus, but no way through the Cataclysm, as Pre-Searing takes place before the Cataclysm, and there are statues of the gods in Pre-Ascalon. It is also possible for the Gods to change their forms, so what we have might not be their real depiction, going with the idea that the depiction did not change since the Exodus.
Dru Stratas
Reading the part about Grenth "rising up and destroying" Dhuum-- could the skull not be the Skull of Dhumm, as some kind of spoils of victory.
Completely random speculation
Completely random speculation