Is there a reason to post something new?

PvP skill requirements:

IAS, Speed, 2-3 skills for spiking, interrupt, res sig, single utility [omg, so flexible, one skill... ]

PvE requirements:

Apparently, pros thinking anything can work, stupid or not... Some even mention using no skills. I'd LOVE to see a screenshot of a team using no skills Vanquish a large hard mode place...

I suppose my guess was true of this place. It's either cookie cutter, BARELY modified cookie cutter, or not worth posting...

Frenzy / Sprint vs. Flail / Rush. They practically accomplish the same goals through very minor different means. (and yet you either bring F/S or you're a noob...) My builds are practically cookie cutters missing 1-2 essentials and WHAM, I'm labeled noob. [fact is I was playing open beta of prophesies WAYYY back in early 2000s when Healing Signet was a common skill. I've played longer than most of you morons... This was the first F2P game I did a search for so many years a go. I have a good idea wtf I'm talking about]

Can someone post a radically new build that can be regarded as efficient? Several others and myself have tried and failed multiple times. At least I have to say, my mindset of having my warrior get out there and deal damage using any means necessary is an old-school method that I'm gratefully seeing still works... Barely modified cookie cutters? I guess we're all forced to use those...

Some 'pro' prove me wrong. Some pro show me a build we've never seen before [especially if it's pvp] that would be highly efficient.

Good luck working without speed buff, IAS, Res Sig, Deep Wound (wait, I like deep wound, keep that ^_^), etc.

Why not let every warrior in the game use cookie cutters and barely touched/modded cookie cutters, then we'd all be the highest level now wouldn't we?

I've listed the essentials. I know how warriors supposed to be played. Can someone show me a non-essential pvp war of W/X?

If not, we should all stop posting anything new for PvP cause [axe example]

you must run

Eviscerate, exe. strike, Disrupting Chop, Bull Strike, Frenzy, Sprint, Res Sig, and MAYBE a utility skill from your other profession (self heals don't cut it)

or be noobed.

Sever, Gash, Galrath, Final, Frenzy, Sprint, Res Sig, bull strike. [swords]

You get the idea...

So... anyone?

i feel ur pain dude... being creative in any other life aspect would label you imaginative, but here its the opposite its gotta be cookie cutter or you fail at gw..

let me try:

dismember
exe
agaonizing
flail
rush (me;s loves rush)
wild blow
charge (e)
rez sig

put helmet on!

There's a difference between being creative (Racthoh's Assassin's Promise Monk Build) and being bad (the builds you've posted in other threads).

You don't fail by running an original build, you just run a subpar build for the sake of being original (assuming your original build is bad).

I never had my heroes calling me noob for running weird skill bar (There's a hint hidden in that sentence)

Basically, I dont care what people say i should run or what is a good or bad elite or skill bar. My all around skill bar as Barrage AND Volley in it with Point blank shot and its twin from faction. Add to this Heart of the Holy Flame and i'm ready for Shard of Orr. Switch to a Charr slaying bow with a sundering string and i'm off to gring Vanguard rep.


I also use lots of PvE only skill but not ursan.''I'm the strongest'' Drunken master are also often on my bar. Cookie cutter or not, i dont care. But i know what you mean, I've been told more then once that barrage is not the best elite, but hey I,m playing it the way I want to play it and i'm not failling at it.

I'll never tell someone what to run unless that player want to play MM where there are no corpes. Even then i' ll politly advise him of what ahead so he can adjust.

Dont let people ruin your game. They dont like what I run? I say good luck and leave.

Weird builds? it works ? be sure i'm using it.

In any balanced game that has been around for as long as gw has you get standards appearing as people have had time to work out the most efficient builds. The only thing that will cause standard builds to be replaced with new ones are new skills/professions being added, skill balances or in the case of PvE certain environment effects/monster skills that punnish the use of certain other skills.

using an IAS, speed boost etc in a build is just making use of game mechanics. Its just practical to choose the best of the bunch.

This is why i H/H everything. My heroes don't give a crap on what I run. For petes sake.


Normally, If im in Pvp i run this
[skill]Crippling Slash[/skill][skill]Gash[/skill][skill]Sun and Moon Slash[/skill][skill]Final Thrust[/skill][skill]Rush[/skill][skill]Mending Touch[/skill][skill]Holy Veil[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

I love surviving. I only use this because, I know that not EVERYONE want's to use the same build for years. I've NEVER EVER seen a different Mo build in RA then whats on wiki. I mean really, brains much? I don't expect people to be perfect. Note that i said people, not robot.

I'm just going to emphasize one portion of your fail: You seem to be ignoring/forgetting Observer Mode.

Pulling skillbars out of your ass and posting them on a forum doesn't carry much weight when people can watch high end games and find out what people are actually using to win, and how they're doing it too.

You seem to be forgetting that those are all cookie cutter builds. The OP wants creativity. pl0x

But people can "survive" better with other things. And warriors do better than damage than anybody, why not do it well by adding IAS?

If you want to survive, bring a monk to clean you up. Stop basing builds around Random Arenas.

Is there a reason to post something new? How many skills are available for the Warrior? Combine that with the available skills from your secondary profession? As long as you are filling the required attack, ias, speed, and res slots, the possibilities for experimentation are enormous. You can't honestly tell me that all of the great builds have been made. That said, Yukito Kunisaki, the biggest problem I see is that you feel the need to post builds over and over that you obviously aren't finished experimenting with. Design a build, play it into the ground, try to fix flaws, THEN post them on the forum for help or criticism. You could have put your last 4 threads into one if you had just spent a little more time trying your build out.

not unless you have something better than the current meta. people use what they use because it works the best. people have had plenty of time to figure out what goes in a build. if you have better ideas feel free to share.

Welcome to Build Wars.

People make builds and use certain skills because they ARE better than others and are more efficient.

If you like to gimp yourself by swapping your bar for another that isn't as good, go ahead - just don't expect the general populace to run it over the tried and true cookie cutter.

When your own guild, comprised of people you've known for quite a while, cuts you down for creating an innovative build... you know that the flower of creativity has been crushed under the boot of "effectiveness" and is not likely to rise up again.

I run a plethora of really outlandish builds, such as pet warriors, and I'm going to try making a spear-user warrior. We all have "high end" to blame for the hatred of creativity.

I guess when thinking "high end"=being good, then you will keep posting new builds that are not even more effective than tried and true.

Just establishing my point that "good" can mean different things to different people ;]

I'm not sure there'd be a reason to post something new until Izzy does something to drastically shape up the warrior metagame.

Creativity is limited to PvE, it always has been and always will be.

You must run the most efficient build possible to win in high end PvP, given the current set of skills where it is fairly easy to rank each skill(ie you can pair two skills together that do the same thing and one will be superior to the other) most every player *should* be running very similar builds given the same weapon.

Given the random chance of what class/builds your likely to run up against there is always a chance you will put in some random skill, out side of accepted normal PvP builds, and it will be very effective.

Example having a war/necro bring Vocal Minority might seam godly if you run into an all paragon party, but otherwise its just a wasted skill slot.

Less radical changes to the "cookie cutter" builds work because they stick close to the core purpose of a war. Picture a Ride the Lightning hammer war, it looks good on paper but your basically swaping your elite hammer attack for an elite version shadow step skill.

Do you realize what you're saying? Think. If what you're saying is true, Then all of the builds we use today must have been created by A Net when they released each GW game/expansion. Actually, each and every build/tactic used in PVP/PVE were designed by players that strives to find a better, or different build/tactic than what was available at the time. Anyone that says that the builds we use now cannot be improved or changed for the better are either closed minded or ignorant. Here's a simpler example, where would we be today if MATH or IQ agreed with you and didn't attempt to improve strategies, skill bars and tactics?

Math...?

They don't create inherently worse builds, and they aren't creative for the sake of being creative.

There are examples of decent builds that are new. Like the assassin's promise or healer's covenant monks. Or the warrior bar that recharges adren like crazy. They're far from the norm, but also fairly effective.

Unfortunately, there are too many people who don't know the difference between a non-cookie cutter build and a total shit build. A non cookie cutter build can still be good, but what most people are posting are complete trash, and it's obvious.

I wish I could find it, but there was an interview with the guys from Math where they said something along the lines of "We're not really set on one build, we play what wins".

If being creative helps you win, it's good. If shamelessly ripping off other people's builds makes you win, you do that.

EDIT: It was IQ, I think. Dammit.

I have made and used builds that are vastly different from the essentials. However, from trialing I know the value of KD's, IAS, Speed Boost, Interupts, Spikes etc.

Therefore, the builds I usually use incorporate these. I was running an executioners, penetrating, distracting, flurry, sprint, heal sig, wy & rebirth in PVE before I heard about any of the forums for the game. (I was up to LA at the time). I soon realised flurry didnt work really well and replaced it with something, cant remember what.

Point being that whist u can make, play, and win with builds that dont follow this standard, they USUALLY arent as good because most combinations have been tried, and seen to fail.

Remember, there are 300,000+ people who play the game, many have tried warrior in pvp. 99% of possible skill bars have probably been tried, and IF a bar was to succeed, it would have reached meta by now.

i dun understand why you seek the approval of the people on this forum... if you have a build that you think is unique and works well, then run it. if you dun want people to take apart your builds then don't post. part of posting builds is to have the balls to take all the criticisms with stride.

There's plenty of "different" builds you can use in pve, but it's very likely they'll be inferior to what a standard W/P D-slash war can do. You can't really argue against it - perma KD, "Save yourselves" with little downtime (if your faction rank is decent), and high dps.

I completely understand that it gets boring for many and people would rather run somethin else, but.....at least try to use a build that isn't so useless. When people throw out their "different" builds here, they're often low-quality. One thing people don't seem to realize is that GW isn't really a coloring book where you can be unique and creative with skills and builds any way you want. Still though, there are somewhat different builds that are abit effective.

Also, while this is the pve section of the forums, I think it's perfectly fine to post AB builds here. It's a mix of pve/pvp, so builds for use there are often different than what you'd use in pve and pvp. Still though, some people get abit out of hand with it and end up using stuff that's just plain bad. It's perfectly fine to be creative as long as it's somethin good.

Anyways, for alternative builds that are at least a little decent, I can't really think of much right now. I had the idea of using Auspicious Parry in pve to fuel stuff like "SY" or Brawling headbutt, and as a nice cancel stance for Frenzy. Somethin else I wanted to try was Echo Whirlwind attack for lots of aoe damage - yeah there's Triple chop but meh, never liked the recharge....it's abit faster to get 6 adren. Thought about using Skullcrack with Brawling headbutt + Steelfang slash to get the adren for it. Never tried any of those, just random ideas. One example of a kinda odd build being effective is a W/D using Warrior's Endurance with lots of 3/4 energy attacks. It could be used with a scythe or hammer. The last buff to Pious assault made it abit more effective if you're using the scythe version.

These are both very true. I think many people don't seem to realize the way stuff works in GW when it comes to builds becoming known to the community. There really isn't any "hidden" builds in this game - as soon as there's a skill update, any new good builds or skill combinations are usually discovered by like within the first week of the update. It's probably very safe to assume that every effective pve warrior build is already known. I've run into plenty of people that think they're using some really good "secret" build but often it's something bad or nothin new. While PvXwiki is jam packed with builds, TONS of them are simply ineffective ones that won't really see any use. Another chunk of those builds are just variants of some other one.

Basically in other words, don't expect to see any true new changes or builds untill there's a warrior skill update. The result is most threads going off topic because the current topic is somethin that's been discussed many times already.

Anyways, when it comes to stupid creative builds, nothin beat's an E/R Thunderclap ele

an E/N ride the lightning, shock, whirlwind, vamptouch/bite ele is rates higher in stupid creativity XD

Except that 99.9999999% of that 'criticism' amounts to "It's not cookie cutter! u suks!", from what I've seen so far.

It's not because it's not a cookie cutter, it's because the current cookie cutter warrior builds are better.

This is very true. Unless Izzy makes some changes, don't expect warrior bars to change a whole lot.

You want a good warrior build that is not of the norm?

[skill]Warrior's Endurance[/skill][skill]Protector's Strike[/skill][skill]Eremite's Attack[/skill][skill]Mystic Sweep[/skill][skill]Distracting Strike[/skill][skill]Pious Assault[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill][skill]Bull's Strike[/skill]

Spam skills, lolol. Your IAS is in the attack activation time. Main downside to this build is lack of speed boost, but you can change the bar around somewhat depending on your needs.

Creativity is more easily implemented in team builds than in single-bar builds, because there are 32 or more slots instead of 8 to play around with. It can be as simple like "not needing to pack a self-heal, because Monk backup can be counted on". This allows for one more utility/offbeat skill choice in your own bar etc....

Apart from that there's simple skill quality. This usually comes down to skills having to meet certain conditions to work to their full extent (or at all), and their ability to accomplish a certain goal in light of other skills. In cookie-cutter builds, the essentials are covered, leaving little room for such frippery.

The Warrior class, admittedly, leaves little in the way of custimization - most offbeat builds attempt to utilize the energy management of the primary with the main purpose skills of the secondary class. Warrior energy management is crap, and the only other class to offer adren skills is the Paragon. So in this sense, I'd agree Warriors are a bit underclassed, since no particular Para skill comes to mind that I'd particularly want (being primarily an Axe-wielder, so no Enduring Harmony).

Then again, Wars can just about pick up any weapon and be effective. I've seen good Spear and Scythe builds beside the normal arsenal, just Bow and Daggers seem unpractical. W/A is still awesome though

The problem with that is, that the large majority of GW is too scared to try something new because they wont get in groups/get riddiculed/are scared of risk. Only a handful of people actually try out new ideas.

It's websites like this that are to blame, actually. Full of elitists that join together to manipulate the new player base, which slowly develops to become the community of GW.

It seems to be human nature to shun the creative, but then when they finally "beat the odds" they are held at legendary status and the ones that once mocked them, now worship them.

Name just one historical figure that society has deemed as "great" that did not over step his set boundries. "Playing it safe" never amounts to anything worthwhile. True story.

Sam, bull's strike is worthless if you don't have a speed boost.

No, sorry to say but the large majority of GW is complete crap at this game and simply don't come up with good builds. If they did have a good build, they'd be able to do well with H/H without needing to pass the judgment of other shitty PUGs, and then get it approved here or by their guildies when they show the build.

Or maybe because most of those creative builds are complete trash? There's a difference between being elitist and not wanting to run junk builds. It's like if you were some D student in eighth grade science telling your teacher that you want to get a $100,000 grant to cure cancer. Chances are he'll just laugh at you. It's not because he's elitist, but that you're simply too naive.

And how often does that happen from the people who post trash builds with mending, heal breeze, and gladiator's defense? None. It's generally the better players testing out new stuff that'll come up with actual useful and creative builds. The rest just come up with useless crap that they think is creative.

That's a given. But I bet for every one that succeeds, there are at least a thousand that fail. There's a reason they succeed: because they have some talent to begin with. It's like trying to say a horse has the intellectual capabilities of a human and can accomplish the same great feats.

So, are you saying everyone that runs a cookie cutter build instead of developing their own is a lower-skilled, less worthy player?

Are you saying that everyone that runs a cookie cutter build is of higher status and should be praised for copy-pasting other peoples ideas on to their bar?

If there is no in between of this matter, do you consider yourself one of the "elite" that can develop a flawless build to topple the current greats...or do you consider yourself one of the followers that hops on the coat-tails of the ones that work hard to create these "master-piece builds"?

Just curious.

No, I'm saying that those who don't even recognize the cookie cutter builds as being good will have little to no chance of developing their own unique build. You have to start out mastering cookie-cutter stuff, then develop your own thing.

Again, most people are too ignorant to see why the typical triple chop axe bar is superior to their riposte mending hundred blades crap. If they're not even able to tell a good bar from a bad one, I can safely say yes, someone who realizes the cookie cutter bar is superior will be better than the fool who continues on with their shitty bars. They shouldn't be praised for copying bars, but that's a biased question. They should be praised for not being a complete retard who lives in their own world thinking he's good when he's not.

That's where you don't understand. There is no "flawless" build that beats all other builds. Builds are in a constant state of fluctuation and improvement, and keep changing as new synergies are found/created. Like I said before, the first step in creating a new build is to know why those cookie cutter builds are good. I play them, I embrace them. I also come up with unique hero synergies by modifying existing "cookie-cutter hero bars" to improve their effectiveness. If you want to talk about personal build creations, I was one of the ones who created and made popular the more recent wave of Melandru's resilience monks in RA.

He's saying that creative builds do sometimes work, but 99% of the trash posted here does not. I would say a skilled player runs stuff that works, whether it's a new build or an old classic.

What you fail to realize is that this is not PVXwiki. All the knowledgeable posters here are capable of creating and tweaking their own builds. The difference between most of us and you is that we do not instantly throw out the collected knowledge of other players to fluff our own egos.

Most impressive.

I'm glad to see I pulled out some thoughtful insight alongside some thoughtless posts. Gotta take both in stride

For the majority, at least as example and experience, in order to get that 'maximum capacity' build, you still need to use the cookie cutter for easily 3/4ths of your build and even then, the elitists will still strike you down

[and in worser cases, not add a reason or give any substitutes for the skills you've chosen to modify your cookie-cutter]

I suppose the most freedom can be found in Random Arena [barely] or PvE [if your teammates aren't exclusives who boot you for not knowing how they play]

Decent discussion thus far... What do you think should be done to improve these attitudes of "Bring this or you suck" from players? I'll admit, I've been guilty of it a few times for some PvE runs and for that I'm truly a sorry hypocrite. I'm thinking older skills should be buffed and the more popular skills be nerfed [oh wait, they're doing that already and still there's little to no progress ]

In a PUG, it's really hard to avoid that mentality. If you can't trust the skill level of those you play with, at least you can trust their bar is decent by forcing a cookie cutter onto them. The best way to avoid it is to go with guildies or friends who will let you test out new builds and won't get all ragey or emo when it fails. If you're fairly new at creating decent, new builds though, I'd say to test it out with H/H before making your friends lose faith in your new stuff.

Don't try to sneak in a cute little cheap shot about skill balance. It doesn't work. People will know you did it, and then you'll look like a fool. Popular skills are not getting constantly nerfed. Take devastating hammer for example. Take dragon slash or cripslash for example. Only overpowered skills and skills that make the game stale will get shaken up.

I just leave.
I dont suck at pve and i read wiki before every mission, quest or dungeon. Therefore i always have a skill bar suited for what's up ahead.

If they dont like my skill bar they can *insert gross stuff here*