An analysis of why many dislike skill balances

Quote: Originally Posted by Qdq Swi

Quote: Originally Posted by JR

From what I've noticed, the skill updates aren't really "balances" and they don't seem to be tested before implementation.

I'm a PvE player, and I try to keep up with the changes to skills with all of these updates. I play pretty regularly, and I'm still learning the game - so the only real drawback to me has been that it disrupts my learning curve. I start to get a handle on synergy and builds and then a skill gets changed (buffed or nerfed) and I have to go: "Now, wait a minute - how does this affect me?"

Yeah, yeah, yeah - "PvE can be beat with an empty bar"... (sigh)

I like a couple of the changes - Weaken Armor now affects more than 1 target, so I can perhaps save bringing Epidemic to spread that condition (if that's what I'm trying to do).

The last update messed with me because the enemies I was hitting in PvE were behaving differently than before. Their skills got changed, as well as mine, and I got pwned because I didn't realize some of my skills were not as effective as they were the day before. (I lost a Rit on the Survivor track, 80k from tier 2 - but, oh well - it's just a game...)

Anyway, I appreciate that PvP players are kind of like the test pilots in that they take the skills and work the hell out of them, testing the limits and synergies, and showing how some new skills may have thrown the game into a less balanced state. (I think a lot of GW:EN contributed to this imbalance, considering how powerful many of them are compared to Prophecies and so on. Plus, GW:EN has taken away the class specialization since now anyone can: set traps; summon powerful creatures; perform KD's; use shouts; etc. No need to worry about your secondary profession choices anymore; everyone can use the same skills regardless of class!)

All in all, I think the skill changes are a good thing. They keep you on your toes, and keep the game fresh. (I stopped using a Mesmer Thief build, but now it may be more viable because Simple Thievery can interrupt skills, as well as steal them. Gives me more options!)

I just wish ANet would look at making each class unique, and fix things like: Necro skills and Mesmer skills that are often misclassed (Epidemic on a Mesmer primary when Disease is more a Necro thing; SS is more a Mesmer-type skill, and should be a Mesmer Elite); Assassins having only 1 or 2 poisoning skills, some of which are conditional, yet a Ranger can Apply Poison and poison with every attack, or cause bleeding, etc. Just sitting down and really thinking through what a class is about, and what sets it apart, and then come up with skills for other classes that could be potential counters. Make skills that people will go: "Whoa! Only [name class] can access those? I want to play one of those!"

Quote: Originally Posted by Savio There is no PvE balance, and the mechanics aren't that different. And, believe it or not, some PvPers are better at PvE than so called "PvErs". Do you mind me fixing that up for you?

In my opinion, there are no such things as PvPers or PvErs, simply people who've mastered (or are attempting To master) all aspects of this game (as mentioned, "PvPrs" have done PvP and PvE), and those are not good enough to do so, they call themselves PvErs to give themselves identity, and then make up a bunch of reasons (normally elitism) to justify why they have only (if not at all) Learnt one half of the game. After that, the "PvPers" become a group and portrayed as bad and elitist in order to make the PvErs look better, or victimised by "Elitism" and how "A-net nerfs everything when PvPers QQ over it" etc etc. Naturally, I'm most likely spouting bullshit here. Oh well.

The only reason i dont PvP anymore is because people take it too serious now. You kill em, you're a noob. They kill you, youre a noob. Either way you lose. PvE is starting to get that way too, Somehow im a noob because i dont take advantage of the overpowered Ursan. Some of the builds i used to use had the same ,if not more, Damage output than Ursan has. Ursan is only one way PvE isnt balanced in anyway shape or form. Its hard to get a group for HM without: 'You have Ursan' Me: 'Yes, but i dont use it' Them: 'OMFG Noob!' then i get kicked and have to use Hero/Hench which isnt bad in the longrun anyways.

Quote: Originally Posted by Toa Hahli

Quote: Originally Posted by JDRyder o and this is always fun [skill]Blackout[/skill] Yeah I LOVE Blackout on Shiro!

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth Half of those effects are very limited in the area or specific enemies using them, two of them are completely irrelevent, the other are made meaningless or made into an advantage by one of the following: Prot spirit, Spiteful Spirit, Broad head arrow. PvE is a little different, sure, but I think we can all agree that any decent PvP player could easily beat 95% of PvE on their first try. Take something like Conjure Nightmare. It's duration was changed by a second. Since it had to be unbalanced - otherwise it wouldn't be touched. It was changed. By a SINGLE second! Now let's consider the increased attack speed in HM. And Signet Of Clumsiness. Foes attack mush faster - and because SoC is balanced on the normal attack speed - that makes the skill completely unbalanced! Or take other active interrupts! Those skills are completely underpowered in a PvE environment. (The mesmer being the perfect example of this and this being also the reason why it's a bit sucky in PvE. I mean - if we have something like Power Spike and it's ability to interrupt spells - but then the monsters run around with "Monster skills" - which don't happen to be spells!) Does this mean that the PvP skills shouldn't be balanced for the sake of PvE? Hell no! What I am saying is that the emotional outburst that accompanies a balance (by quite some PvE players) is completely expectable when we have a game where skills are balanced not only on their effect but also on the other skills and their properties - and the PvE game isn't being looked at when doing such balances. (Hence my suggestion that PvE should be balanced AFTER they balance the skills for PvP. Because it the current game there is no way that a skill CAN be balanced on both sets of rules! I am aware that this would require an insane amount of work - but it wasn't our idea to keep breaking the rules in a game that RELIES on them just so that they would have less work to do!) And that is why I find it insanely insulting that people who don't accept this OR knowingly look away face the players in such derogatory fashion as witnessed after each balance!

Quote: Originally Posted by upier

Quote: Does this mean that the PvP skills shouldn't be balanced for the sake of PvE? There are no such things as "PvP skills", good players call them "Skills"

Quote: Originally Posted by nem coke

Quote: Originally Posted by upier

Quote: Originally Posted by nem coke

Nope, for the most part, PvE has the same mechanics as PvP.

- There are no "PvP Skills" They are the skills good players use.
- Stop segementing things further simply because you cannot see or accept the truth.
- Blackout was a great "PvP Skill" as well, and only good Mesmers could use it well (or Rangers, referring to the old R/Me GvG ranger).

Well....people hate balances because they kill the gimmicks people use.

The effectiveness of blackout on bosses is irrelevant, mesmers don't exist in PvE. /sarcasm

That aside, its true that the mesmer is pretty badly equipped to handle PvE like people expect professions to. Energy denial is useless, interrupts are next to useless compared to what a ranger can put out, and single target shutdown isn't usually in demand. That is why only 1 out of 100 people are playing mesmer in pve.

The reason blackout doesn't work, that some enemies have half hex duration (wastrel's worry spam anyone?), is that without it PvE would be even easier. Do we really need PvE to be easier?

There such things as "PvEr Mesmer" it's a horrible sight in my eye, so aweful. They constantly try to prove that Mesmers are good in PvE, as if doing PvE is an achivement, no one really cares anymore.

Quote: Originally Posted by Evaine

Quote: Originally Posted by Shuuda

Quote: Originally Posted by The Meth