Hey all
Please don't look at the title and think 'wow, retard' i know the huge damage an axe can inflict and the insane damage and mob effectiveness destroying KD's a hammer can do..
But since trying out the 'God Mode' build for the sword, built around "Save Yourselves!" and Dragon Slash, i've been a LOT less inclined to change my weapon, despite my love for hammers.
I play with heroes and competent players so it's not like i'm using it to save PUG's, but it's effectiveness is insane.
From what i can see there isn't much that returns adrenaline like Dragon Slash in any other line while also outputting the weapons potential as much.
So other than fun or if you have a friend running "SY!" is it less effective to use another weapon now?
Are Axe and Hammer obsolete for PvE?
NuclearDope
Marverick
Unless you have another Warrior or Paragon running SY!, Sword is probably your best bet. And even then Sword might still be your best bet with its high damage and kd-locks unless you really need Earthshaker, or if the areas is littered with anti-melee such that Dragon Slash is unreliable.
DarkGanni
To the players that take only Dlash expecting to spam it > Phail
I prefer axe personally mostly for the great advantage of deep wound on anything and disrupting chop spam.
- Ganni
I prefer axe personally mostly for the great advantage of deep wound on anything and disrupting chop spam.
- Ganni
Shaz
I wouldn't say obosolete, but yes, sword is probably best with the synergy of SY and DS, making your party taking little damage while putting out impressive damage at the same time.
That said though, I have never ran that on my warrior yet to vanquish any of the zone. It would probably help, but I haven't seen the need to use it yet. That and I just love Earth Shaker too much
That said though, I have never ran that on my warrior yet to vanquish any of the zone. It would probably help, but I haven't seen the need to use it yet. That and I just love Earth Shaker too much
Marverick
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkGanni
To the players that take only Dlash expecting to spam it > Phail
I prefer axe personally mostly for the great advantage of deep wound on anything and disrupting chop spam.
- Ganni I'd rather take a Wearying Strike + AoM or Wounding Strike Derv for deep wound.
And why Disrupting Chop spam when you can KD spam?
I prefer axe personally mostly for the great advantage of deep wound on anything and disrupting chop spam.
- Ganni I'd rather take a Wearying Strike + AoM or Wounding Strike Derv for deep wound.
And why Disrupting Chop spam when you can KD spam?
cellardweller
Axes are better for PBAoE Damage which shines especially when you've got room for multiple copies of splinter weapon on your hero's bar.
Hammers still have earthshaker which is the only source of AoE knockdowns outside of ursan.
And lets face it, running DS/SY gets boring. I only use it when I'm after mindless efficiency while doing book grinding, for normal play, running things other than an "i win" button is generally more rewarding.
Hammers still have earthshaker which is the only source of AoE knockdowns outside of ursan.
And lets face it, running DS/SY gets boring. I only use it when I'm after mindless efficiency while doing book grinding, for normal play, running things other than an "i win" button is generally more rewarding.
Crom The Pale
Thats the beauty of PvE, you can use anything and still be effective.
Though I have stated more than once that Hammers just don't cut it for me in PvE, the knockdowns just don't matter much if you've got the right party build.
Though I have stated more than once that Hammers just don't cut it for me in PvE, the knockdowns just don't matter much if you've got the right party build.
Div
Triple chop is still one of the best skills for areas where lots of things mob onto you. That is, if you can fit SY on another character in the build. Hammer is generally average and only shines while killing pesty healers.
Stormlord Alex
'wow, retard!' 
kidding ^_~
For Normal Mode PvE, the mob-destroying raw strength of the Axe and Hammer will let you cleave through foes faster than just spamming DSlash on one guy, and let's face it - NM is easy enough that you can cope easily without the Godmode of constant "SY!". So for Normal Mode, Axes and Hammers are far from obsolete.
For hardmode.... myeh. Constant ~85% damage reduction and keeping a priority target on it's ass ad infinitum is too powerful to pass up, for the most part...
Though for some areas, particularly 4-man zones, I've passed up godmode again in favour of greater destructive/disruptive power of axe/hammer - bearing in mind that minions taking the brunt of the hits are not affected by "SY!", and the physicals that leak through the minions are efficiently neutered by Enfeebling Blood (necros = ftw), making the 'necessity' of "SY!" less prominent.
And, as is obvious, having a human paragon also throws DSlash's greatest draw out the window. Indeed, when I'm with people I know - we really like physical-heavy teams, often with multiple Paras - an Earthshaker hammer bar is my most-run bar, because it compliments the Paragon's general lack of disruption with the potential to knock-lock a whole group.
kidding ^_~For Normal Mode PvE, the mob-destroying raw strength of the Axe and Hammer will let you cleave through foes faster than just spamming DSlash on one guy, and let's face it - NM is easy enough that you can cope easily without the Godmode of constant "SY!". So for Normal Mode, Axes and Hammers are far from obsolete.
For hardmode.... myeh. Constant ~85% damage reduction and keeping a priority target on it's ass ad infinitum is too powerful to pass up, for the most part...
Though for some areas, particularly 4-man zones, I've passed up godmode again in favour of greater destructive/disruptive power of axe/hammer - bearing in mind that minions taking the brunt of the hits are not affected by "SY!", and the physicals that leak through the minions are efficiently neutered by Enfeebling Blood (necros = ftw), making the 'necessity' of "SY!" less prominent.
And, as is obvious, having a human paragon also throws DSlash's greatest draw out the window. Indeed, when I'm with people I know - we really like physical-heavy teams, often with multiple Paras - an Earthshaker hammer bar is my most-run bar, because it compliments the Paragon's general lack of disruption with the potential to knock-lock a whole group.
Marty Silverblade
No way. It's just that +100AL on all party members is generally too good to pass up. If there's a place where you can reliably get the enemy in one spot, then Splinter Weapon -> Triple Chop outdamages it easily. I've only done Slaver's in NM so far but the Splinter Axe thing almost wipes dwarves in a few attacks.
Coloneh
Quote:
Originally Posted by NuclearDope
Please don't look at the title and think 'wow, retard' i know the huge damage an axe can inflict
to late, and you obviously dont.
have you even seen a triple chop warrior? the DPS is ridiculous when unleashed on a normal mob. you dont need to be spamming SY all the time and a triple chop warrior can keep it up pretty well anyways.
have you even seen a triple chop warrior? the DPS is ridiculous when unleashed on a normal mob. you dont need to be spamming SY all the time and a triple chop warrior can keep it up pretty well anyways.
blue.rellik
Breaking backs is fun
Keekles
EARTHSHAKERRRRRR is fun too :P
Unless it's HM, just run whatever. NM is easy to the point that any decent build will work.
Unless it's HM, just run whatever. NM is easy to the point that any decent build will work.
not so newb
KDs for hammer are great but since theirs no shield its sort of not as good as axe and sword.
Roman
Quote:
Originally Posted by not so newb
KDs for hammer are great but since theirs no shield its sort of not as good as axe and sword.
Thats such a bad reason.. the KD's make up for the lack of shield, and missing 16 armor isnt going to kill you when you have a (decent) monk in your team.
zling
whats the big deal with SY on a DSlash bar when everyone and their mother runs god mode paragorns...?
but hey, if you're so desperate for a SY in your group than by all means use it, otherwise Axe/Hammer>Swords anytime, anywhere...
but hey, if you're so desperate for a SY in your group than by all means use it, otherwise Axe/Hammer>Swords anytime, anywhere...
RedNova88
All of the weapons will hold certain advantages, and if people prefer one weapon type to another then that's their preference and I can respect that. But in the end it's PvE and it doesn't really matter what weapon you're using unless it's a super specific farming build or something.
I, however, prefer Hammer simply because of the ability to chain Backbreaker/Earthshaker and pummel the crap out of enemies while they're immobilized.
I, however, prefer Hammer simply because of the ability to chain Backbreaker/Earthshaker and pummel the crap out of enemies while they're immobilized.
Yichi
Quote:
Originally Posted by not so newb
KDs for hammer are great but since theirs no shield its sort of not as good as axe and sword.
so keeping a target kd'd and not attacking you or getting a spell off is less useful than 16 armor...
rethink your strategy of playing a hammer warrior is what I would suggest.
rethink your strategy of playing a hammer warrior is what I would suggest.
Marverick
Quote:
Originally Posted by cellardweller
And lets face it, running Warriors gets boring.
Fixed for ya 
I agree with the NM PvE, though. Except maybe something like Catacombs of Kathandrax, SY! is overkill.
I agree with the NM PvE, though. Except maybe something like Catacombs of Kathandrax, SY! is overkill.
cellardweller
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marverick
Fixed for ya
I agree with the NM PvE, though. Except maybe something like Catacombs of Kathandrax, SY! is overkill. Quite the contrary, I think damage warriors, dervishes and protection monks are the most interesting PvE archetypes to play because their performance scales more with player ability than others.
I agree with the NM PvE, though. Except maybe something like Catacombs of Kathandrax, SY! is overkill. Quite the contrary, I think damage warriors, dervishes and protection monks are the most interesting PvE archetypes to play because their performance scales more with player ability than others.
JDRyder
Mokele Smash buff owns face, i use a Furious hammer with Magehunter's Smash,Devastating Hammer or Earth Shaker and i can keep any thing in a KD lock like 80% of the time. I like Hammers cause they do really good DPS and lots of KDs, takes a lot of pressure off your monks. Axe is good aswell, its better then sword imo, but i still like hammer better, IMO theres a lack of hammer wars in pve, the shield on axe and sword is nice but KD > shield imo, i use a shield set when i use hammer any way, when im taking to much damage and need to fall back.
1 of the elites then [skill]Crushing Blow[/skill][skill]Hammer Bash[/skill][skill]Mokele Smash[/skill][skill]Enraging Charge[/skill] and gg from there
hammers ftw
saw some ppl saying "KD Locks are not as good as raw DPS and a shield" but if you run it smart you stay on monk or w/e is hurting your team and it takes a lot of pressure off you monks and your team kill things faster "KD in AoE gogo". a KD is more useful then a 70 damage attack with axe or a 3 damage attack with a sword "lol i kid"
1 of the elites then [skill]Crushing Blow[/skill][skill]Hammer Bash[/skill][skill]Mokele Smash[/skill][skill]Enraging Charge[/skill] and gg from there
hammers ftw
saw some ppl saying "KD Locks are not as good as raw DPS and a shield" but if you run it smart you stay on monk or w/e is hurting your team and it takes a lot of pressure off you monks and your team kill things faster "KD in AoE gogo". a KD is more useful then a 70 damage attack with axe or a 3 damage attack with a sword "lol i kid"
Grammar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDRyder
saw some ppl saying "KD Locks are not as good as raw DPS and a shield" [...] a KD is more useful then a 70 damage attack with axe or a 3 damage attack with a sword "lol i kid"
I don't think anyone is saying that. Well, not anyone who knows what they're talking about anyway.
The question is, why not have both KD locks AND raw DPS and a shield, with a little party wide godmode thrown in there on the side just for good measure?
The best reason to bring a hammer in PvE these days IMO is AoE KD, which is still a hammer-exclusive ability.
On a semi-related note, am I the only one who's starting to wish that PvE skills where never put into the game (aside from Sunspear Rebirth Sig., of course)?
The question is, why not have both KD locks AND raw DPS and a shield, with a little party wide godmode thrown in there on the side just for good measure?
The best reason to bring a hammer in PvE these days IMO is AoE KD, which is still a hammer-exclusive ability.
On a semi-related note, am I the only one who's starting to wish that PvE skills where never put into the game (aside from Sunspear Rebirth Sig., of course)?
Jetdoc
As stated by others in this thread, DS/SY sword warriors are great for making your party outlast your enemies.
However, if your party is at all decent, your warrior should focus on killing your enemies quicker - and axes excel at that in a way that swords can't compete with.
However, if your party is at all decent, your warrior should focus on killing your enemies quicker - and axes excel at that in a way that swords can't compete with.
Sir Pandra Pierva
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetdoc
As stated by others in this thread, DS/SY sword warriors are great for making your party outlast your enemies.
However, if your party is at all decent, your warrior should focus on killing your enemies quicker - and axes excel at that in a way that swords can't compete with. agreed and hammer lockdown is fun when using stuff like SH or met storm
However, if your party is at all decent, your warrior should focus on killing your enemies quicker - and axes excel at that in a way that swords can't compete with. agreed and hammer lockdown is fun when using stuff like SH or met storm
Adam of Tyria
*Looks at title*
No.
No.
Racthoh
In organized situations where I'm looking to complete something as fast as possible my frontline would be a Moebius sin with an Earthshaker warrior.
JDRyder
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grammar
The question is, why not have both KD locks AND raw DPS
i like both, [skill]Mighty Blow[/skill]
and yea i dont like pve skills myself. more useful skills that are not pve only
and yea i dont like pve skills myself. more useful skills that are not pve only
Rabid Sheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grammar
On a semi-related note, am I the only one who's starting to wish that PvE skills where never put into the game (aside from Sunspear Rebirth Sig., of course)?
personaly I never liked the idea, kurzick/luxon/sunspear skills are *ok*
because they're still linked o a specific profession, but norn/asura etc.. are simply too boring to use.
because they're still linked o a specific profession, but norn/asura etc.. are simply too boring to use.
Sir Pandra Pierva
the pve only were never worth it in my opinions besides cap sig and sunspear rebirth sig.
then the GWEN PVE only skills came into existence and just sucked. There good but not worth it for most play.
then the GWEN PVE only skills came into existence and just sucked. There good but not worth it for most play.
nebuchanezzar
I believe his response was mostly towards Brawling Headbutt. It makes for a possible KD lock on a sword warrior with DSlash. Something that was once Hammers exclusive domain. Every other KD a warrior had access to was conditional: lose all adren, exhaustion, hit moving foe, etc.
Now the only thing hammers have exclusively is AoE KD via Earth Shaker and the only 4 sec KD with Backbreaker. But with a good team, perma ES AoE knocklocking is possible(this is what Racthoh was alluding to), and fun.
Now the only thing hammers have exclusively is AoE KD via Earth Shaker and the only 4 sec KD with Backbreaker. But with a good team, perma ES AoE knocklocking is possible(this is what Racthoh was alluding to), and fun.
kazjun
If you play HM, you'll love hammer. Don't matter how buffed a caster mob is, they can't cast when flat on their back. And as many have said, splinter on triple chop/cyclone is very nice. The old evis->exec also works well if you're going single target damage, like against titans.
On the other hand, it really is hard not to recommend dslash though. Using pve skills, not only can you put SY up all over the place, but you can KD spam. Single target, but even in a mob with multiple healers, sustained dps will kill off monks if you disable one of the healers. Single target damage is probably better than evis->exec just without the DW and spike damage. And any sword warr can carry whirlwind if he wants aoe for splinter. Though that tends not to be used as much with dslash.
On the other hand, it really is hard not to recommend dslash though. Using pve skills, not only can you put SY up all over the place, but you can KD spam. Single target, but even in a mob with multiple healers, sustained dps will kill off monks if you disable one of the healers. Single target damage is probably better than evis->exec just without the DW and spike damage. And any sword warr can carry whirlwind if he wants aoe for splinter. Though that tends not to be used as much with dslash.
JDRyder
Quote:
Originally Posted by nebuchanezzar
I believe his response was mostly towards Brawling Headbutt. It makes for a possible KD lock on a sword warrior with DSlash. Something that was once Hammers exclusive domain. Every other KD a warrior had access to was conditional: lose all adren, exhaustion, hit moving foe, etc.
Now the only thing hammers have exclusively is AoE KD via Earth Shaker and the only 4 sec KD with Backbreaker. But with a good team, perma ES AoE knocklocking is possible(this is what Racthoh was alluding to), and fun. backbreaker sucks imo. with a stonefist on your armor "something all wars need any way" the other KDs last 3 secs. i dont think the stonefist adds in to backbreaker, so the 10 adrenaline cost is a little much i think, skill may need buff?
Now the only thing hammers have exclusively is AoE KD via Earth Shaker and the only 4 sec KD with Backbreaker. But with a good team, perma ES AoE knocklocking is possible(this is what Racthoh was alluding to), and fun. backbreaker sucks imo. with a stonefist on your armor "something all wars need any way" the other KDs last 3 secs. i dont think the stonefist adds in to backbreaker, so the 10 adrenaline cost is a little much i think, skill may need buff?
blue.rellik
1 second is a long time when you can't do anything
Trvth Jvstice
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue.rellik
1 second is a long time when you can't do anything
Most normal people would be on auto attack during that 1 second. You press C, then space. Though, I'm not sure everyone has the C-space skill.
blue.rellik
If you're the only person attacking then fine enough but used in co-ordinated play then it means they can't run away for one more second
![]SK[](/static/static/../Img/avatar57917_6.gif){kind=avatar}
]SK[
I play nothing but Axe recently. Not played sword for a long time. Hammer doesn't see much light but it's still fun to play KD warrior. EoTN sort of annoys me as there is just too much anti-melee there. Forced Ursan on my skill bar. It's like old tyria with swords. There are a heck of alot of foes that arn't fleshy ruining sever and gash 
MasterSasori
Well Rangers still use hammers for thumpers :P
MsMassacre
Hammers have been rendered obsolete by dwarven headbutt. In the event you want to knock people down, DHB can fit into any melee build. The best KD melee builds now use swords (with dragon slash & steelfang) and daggers (locust's fury & critical agility.) You could argue that KD in pve is not especially useful, and that thus hammers have always been obsolete, but DHB is the nail in that particular coffin no question.
yesitsrob
I think hammer warriors are very viable. Building round Earthshaker makes for some pretty fun and effective PVE warrior builds.
I guess Triple Chop axe isn't bad too but when you have Whirlind Attack nowadays and being able to use Crude Swing now I think the Earthshaker warriors are significantly better than them and AoE KD knocklocking is great fun and even good practice ^^. The whole Deep Wound on demand strength with axes really isn't that relevant in PVE and the KD of Hammer (probably just Earthshaker to be truthful) and DPS and Adrenaline engine of Dragonslash are probably more useful.
If playing alone I couldn't really imagine myself straying from a D Slash warrior for effectiveness.
I guess Triple Chop axe isn't bad too but when you have Whirlind Attack nowadays and being able to use Crude Swing now I think the Earthshaker warriors are significantly better than them and AoE KD knocklocking is great fun and even good practice ^^. The whole Deep Wound on demand strength with axes really isn't that relevant in PVE and the KD of Hammer (probably just Earthshaker to be truthful) and DPS and Adrenaline engine of Dragonslash are probably more useful.
If playing alone I couldn't really imagine myself straying from a D Slash warrior for effectiveness.
Numa Pompilius
I generally use axe & Eviscerate, but I tried out a enraging charge + fgj + dslash + brawling headbutt + that skill that does extra damage and gives 5 adren if you hit a knocked down foe, and... well, according to the master of damage it does almost 50% more damage per second (70 instead of 52), and first kill is 3 seconds faster (9 seconds instead of 12) than my Eviscerate build.
Add in SY! and it's hard to really justify running anything else.
Add in SY! and it's hard to really justify running anything else.