Exhaustion. - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Drink Ice Tea

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2008

NJ, USA

14 Mar 2008 at 14:48 - 1

Really, there needs to be a way of getting rid of this stuff without waiting a whole minute. What I'm thinking is every point of energy gain, not from regeneration, could knock off 1 point or maybe some low fraction of a point of exhaustion off.

When i say energy gain i mean like energy gain from skills like Channeling, Ether Signet, basically the whole Inspiration Magic line. 1 problem with this healing exhaustion effect I see would be complete imbalance with Elemental Attunements. Not just Elemental Attunement, the other attunements too. Also, skills like Auspicious Incantation which give giant boosts of energy gain. Things like that could make Gale spammable or the Mind (Shock, Freeze, Burn) spells. I think a fraction of energy gain would be best for healing Exhaustion if that can even be done with Guild Wars.

I just really think there needs to be a way of managing Exhaustion other than making a whole skill, possibly elite, on your bar really situational.

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

14 Mar 2008 at 15:04 - 2

Exhaustion is fine, and - imo - one of the best mechanics in Guild Wars. It doesn't need changing.

GD Defender

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2006

A/

14 Mar 2008 at 15:11 - 3

Exhaustion forces you to make decisions about your energy management. Skilled players will use exhausting skills at the right times and get big effects out of them, unskilled players will not until they learn to use the skill. It's a good mechanic that prevents mindless spamming.

Also, it's 30 seconds, not a full minute.

Solas

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

Ireland

Currently LF Active HA Guild, Glad 2, Comm.3, R2

E/

14 Mar 2008 at 15:13 - 4

just use it when it needs to be and don't spam it.

its grand

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

14 Mar 2008 at 15:20 - 5

Quote:

Really, there needs to be a way of getting rid of this stuff

There is. Don't spam spells that cause exhaustion.
Why do people feel a sudden need to change things like exhaustuion, blind, daze etc now, after 2 years of fine work?

Orange Milk

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

Ganking, USA

Retired

R/

14 Mar 2008 at 16:35 - 6

I don't think you know why there is exhaustion in the first place.

It's for balance to make things like Gale, shock, and the others NOT spammable. Gale is a VERY powerful spell, with out exhaustion in its current form it would be overpowered.

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

14 Mar 2008 at 16:54 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

It's for balance to make things like Gale, shock, and the others NOT spammable. Gale is a VERY powerful spell, with out exhaustion in its current form it would be overpowered.

Or it'd cost 25 energy or have a 30 second recharge to compensate.

Mike_version2

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

14 Mar 2008 at 16:55 - 8

Exhaustion is fine as it is
/notsigned

Steboy93

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Feb 2007

Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] | Ex-Officer [TAM]

W/

14 Mar 2008 at 17:01 - 9

Exhaustion doesn't need a change

/notsigned

Gift3d

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Las Vegas

Enraged Whiny Carebears [oR]

W/E

14 Mar 2008 at 17:21 - 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drink Ice Tea

Really, there needs to be a way of getting rid of this stuff without waiting a whole minute. What I'm thinking is every point of energy gain, not from regeneration, could knock off 1 point or maybe some low fraction of a point of exhaustion off.

When i say energy gain i mean like energy gain from skills like Channeling, Ether Signet, basically the whole Inspiration Magic line. 1 problem with this healing exhaustion effect I see would be complete imbalance with Elemental Attunements. Not just Elemental Attunement, the other attunements too. Also, skills like Auspicious Incantation which give giant boosts of energy gain. Things like that could make Gale spammable or the Mind (Shock, Freeze, Burn) spells. I think a fraction of energy gain would be best for healing Exhaustion if that can even be done with Guild Wars.

I just really think there needs to be a way of managing Exhaustion other than making a whole skill, possibly elite, on your bar really situational.

You remind me of one of those Ride The Lightning ele's in RA who will spam the HELL out of RTL/Shock just trying so hard... ever so hard... just to kill little old me.

Ride The Lightning x4
Shock x5

And finally, when they're exhausted to 3 energy, my demise shall make them proud...

Anyway, exhaustion's fine and i've never had a problem with it. You just need to know how to manage.

quickmonty

Ancient Windbreaker

Join Date: May 2005

14 Mar 2008 at 17:30 - 11

Exhaustion is fine the way it is. Manage your skill use and there is no problem.

/not signed

GD Defender

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2006

A/

14 Mar 2008 at 17:39 - 12

To elaborate, the specific reason exhaustion is a good mechanic is because, while it's not 100% spammable, it lets Anet drop the recharge on the skill a lot to allow skillful use such as gale-locking or making a heavy push on the enemy team. As Alex said, the alternative would be an unplayable recharge or energy cost. Most of the skills that cause exhaustion have relatively simple effects that wouldn't be worthwhile on a higher recharge without changing the skill completely.

cgruber

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2007

Tryst of Vengenance [ToV]

Mo/Me

14 Mar 2008 at 17:51 - 13

Actually to me the most interesting aspect of exhaustion is that it remains after death.

N1ghtstalker

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2007

E/

14 Mar 2008 at 18:01 - 14

don't use skills that cause exhaustion
/notsigned

Drink Ice Tea

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2008

NJ, USA

14 Mar 2008 at 18:53 - 15

No need to take snipes at me now like calling me a RtL spammer or a QQer.

Unfriendly moar gawsh.

MStarfire

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

[SOS]

Rt/

14 Mar 2008 at 18:58 - 16

Hey, and while we're changing exhaustion, I think I shouldn't lose adrenaline after i use an adrenal skill!

/endsarcasm
/notsigned

I D E L E T E D I

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

[BAAA] guest me NOW

Mo/

14 Mar 2008 at 18:59 - 17

/notsigned
for the reasons already stated, its fine the way it is

Drink Ice Tea

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2008

NJ, USA

14 Mar 2008 at 19:04 - 18

Fine, let the thread die then.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

15 Mar 2008 at 03:10 - 19

New people need to stop buying this game. Actually Anet need to stop selling it.

I cant believe anyone would have a problem with exhaustion untill now.

Lets just remove it altogether and spam Obi flame > gale all day long lol.

/PHAIL, EPIC P-H-A-I-L

Antheus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

15 Mar 2008 at 03:42 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I cant believe anyone would have a problem with exhaustion untill now.

You must be new here. There was very much crying over exhaustion already. But eventually, people learned to deal with it, started different characters, or quit or something.

thetechx

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

the mooninites

E/Mo

15 Mar 2008 at 10:34 - 21

/notsigned

i know how you feel. when i first got to crystal desert on my ele and found obs flame, i spammed that thing like crazy. then i grew a brain so i wouldnt have to wait 2 mins. before moving on. id rather have 10 exhaustion then have my spike kill cost 25e. the balance on exhaution is fine the way it.

Holly Herro

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Kangaroo-land.

Blades of the Dingo [AUST]

15 Mar 2008 at 12:55 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Or it'd cost 25 energy or have a 30 second recharge to compensate.

You're so wise =3

Fear Me!

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2005

E/R

28 Mar 2008 at 09:08 - 23

/notsigned. There is nothing wrong with exhaustion.

Phoenix Tears

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2007

28 Mar 2008 at 13:44 - 24

I think it would be awesome, when monks & ritualists woudl have maybe some skills, that can heal exhaustion from other effects and have maybe also then some triger heal effects as normal heal skills, that trigger, when the spell healed someones exhaustion:

Skilsl like this:

"Revitalize" (Healing Prayers)
Enchant

For the next 1-3 Spells the enchanted ally will heal its Exhaustion by 25-50% of the Energy Cost of the used Spells from you.

Say I have a Exhaustion of 50 Points, because I double used a Meteor Shower through Arcane Echo, get then buffed with "Revitalize". Then the Monk uses 3 Spells that cost 10 Energy and for each use of that Spell the exhaustion of me gets healed by 5 Points max. So in the end, I got healed by 15 Exhaustion.

When the monk would use 3x soem 25e spells, this would be an exhaustion heal of max 27,5 Points, so a monk would have to use 3x some 25e skills, just to heal for 1 ally that is enchanted a 25e exhaution.

Uhm I think this can be looked as balanced, or ?

Enchant self owuld cost 5E, 1s Cast time and recharge of say 5 or 10 seconds

Ritualist would have then a spirit:

"Revitalization" (under the heal line of the rit)

You create a lvl x-y Spirit, that will stay 30-60 seconds and will heal per second for nearby allies 1-2 Exhaution per second

5E cost, 3s cast time, 30s reload

or an aggressive form of that:

"Exhaustion" (channeling)[Elite] 15E, 3s cast, 45s reload

you create a lvl x-y spirit for the next 30-90seconds. This Spirit will deal only 5 damage to non hexed foes, but 10-20 damage vs. hexed foes and if it hits a hexed foes, it will deal 25% of its damage as Exhaustion (so 5E Exhaution per hit vs. hexed foes) If allies with Exhaustion are in near of this spirit, it will deal instead 7E ehasution per hit and allies will get healed by 2 Exhaustion, whenever the spirit hits a foe and the Spirit will lose 15 HP whenever an ally got healed Exhaustion through this way.

Would be really nice to have such skills as support for healing heavy exhaution of party members

I pwnd U

God of Spammers

Join Date: Oct 2005

in the middle of a burning cornfield...

Scars Meadows [SMS] (Officer)

28 Mar 2008 at 13:48 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

*snip*

You talk to much.

/notsigned, exhaustion is fine. I rarely have a problem with it and people that bring more then 2 skills that cause exhaustion need to rework their builds if they are having problems. I have run ele's that carry 3 skills that cause exhaustion (bad idea, don't do) just to see if I could handle it. You can just so long as you are smart about when you use those skills.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

28 Mar 2008 at 13:56 - 26

Exhaustion is fine as it is. It's also a really good mechanic.
It prevents people spamming them skills mindlessly.

Kanyatta

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Guildless, pm me

R/Mo

28 Mar 2008 at 14:11 - 27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fear Me!

/notsigned. There is nothing wrong with exhaustion.

Why would you rezz a week old thread to say this?

By the way. /notsign

Kashrlyyk

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

03 May 2008 at 19:33 - 28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Or it'd cost 25 energy or have a 30 second recharge to compensate.

Both of that can be reduced.

MasterSasori

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2007

USA

[Thay]

R/Mo

03 May 2008 at 19:59 - 29

Could you imagine Gale Spamming? That would be the funniest shit ever.

N1ghtstalker

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2007

E/

03 May 2008 at 20:02 - 30

its fine
leave it
/notsigned

kev read

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2008

Celestial Twilight [CT]

D/

03 May 2008 at 20:12 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

"Exhaustion" (channeling)[Elite] 15E, 3s cast, 45s reload

you create a lvl x-y spirit for the next 30-90seconds. This Spirit will deal only 5 damage to non hexed foes, but 10-20 damage vs. hexed foes and if it hits a hexed foes, it will deal 25% of its damage as Exhaustion (so 5E Exhaution per hit vs. hexed foes) If allies with Exhaustion are in near of this spirit, it will deal instead 7E ehasution per hit and allies will get healed by 2 Exhaustion, whenever the spirit hits a foe and the Spirit will lose 15 HP whenever an ally got healed Exhaustion through this way.

Um... lol? If the spirit attacks once every two seconds (or so), and is training a monk, their team is f---ed... Anybody who DIDN'T run this would be dumb... its THAT overpowered... (the monks e will be wasted in 14 seconds...)

Heres my idea:

0e 1/16cast 2recharge
This is a SKILL btw...
Elite Signet. For 5-10 seconds (att Soul Reaping) if target foe has any exhaustion, that foe has -10 health regen, cannot block, cast, attack, and dies if they attempt to move.

Thats balanced, right?

/sarcasmoff

btw /notsigned

Sir Tificate

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2007

03 May 2008 at 20:32 - 32

Here's two random exhaustion related ideas:

1. Skills that have more or less than 10 exhaustion. Some skills could have 5 or 15, allows for slightly more precise balancing. Then again, there might be some coding reason that there are only increments of exactly 10. If so, this can be ignored.

2. A small number noting how much exhaustion you have. Just a simple number just off of the end of you Energy bar, that says exactly how much you have at the moment.

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

03 May 2008 at 23:49 - 33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

Both of that can be reduced.

Excellent random bump.

This idea was dumb before. Its dumb now. Exhaustion allows skills to be used repeatedly in clutch situations but prevents you from spamming them the entire fight. That is the point. It is balanced. If you exaust your entire bar you are either a h/h or just not thinking carefully enough about your skill usage.

Zesbeer

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2007

LLJK

04 May 2008 at 00:20 - 34

i think it would be nice if they added a exhaustion condition notification that says something like you are suffering from exhaustion this condition cannot be removed.

and not signed.

Kashrlyyk

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

04 May 2008 at 07:51 - 35

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Excellent random bump.

This idea was dumb before. Its dumb now. Exhaustion allows skills to be used repeatedly in clutch situations but prevents you from spamming them the entire fight. That is the point. It is balanced. If you exaust your entire bar you are either a h/h or just not thinking carefully enough about your skill usage.

The same goes for life sacrifice, you can spam them too, but it can be healed away! Exhaustion is the only thing in the entire game, that forces you to wait, that limits spell usage by making you wait. Everything else can be removed fast!

There are 17 exhaustion spells and shock and gale are the only ones used often. So a mechanic that makes people not use skills at all, is balanced?

It would be enough actually to make exhaustion go away faster, when you are not fighting, just like the extra health regeneration.

Dark Pact: 102 armor ignoring damage within 6 seconds. Life sacrifice. 1 second casting time and 2 seconds recharge. If you extrapolate the damage to 7 seconds, you get 119.
Obsidian Flame: 118 armor ignoring damage within 7 seconds. Causes exhaustion. 2 seconds casting time. 5 seconds recharge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

The Exhaustion kills Mind Burn bad.
It's barely better than Immolate or Rodgort's.

... oh, yeah... Mind Blast also kills Mind Burn. Untill Burn also lets me spam RI, Heal Party,Wards, Blinding Flash or whatever the hell else I want, Burn's trash.

Balanced.

Kale Ironfist

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

Australia

Venatio Illuminata [VEIL]

W/

04 May 2008 at 09:20 - 36

Quote:

Balanced.

Exhaustion as a mechanic is balanced. The skills that use it, may or may not be balanced with it in mind.

Notable examples of exhaustion being a good mechanic include:
Mind Shock
Mind Freeze
Shock
Gale

Kaida the Heartless

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

N/

04 May 2008 at 10:02 - 37

PvE Skill:

(Old) Intensity: 5, 1, 45
Enchantment Spell. For 10 seconds, your spells deal 15...23% more damage.

(New) Intensity: 5, 1, 60
Enchantment Spell. For 15 seconds, your are immune to exhaustion. When this enchantment ends, you suffer from 20 Exhaustion.

Nothing else is balanced in PvE. Why not give the Ele's somewhere to go crazy?

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

04 May 2008 at 10:22 - 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

The same goes for life sacrifice, you can spam them too, but it can be healed away! Exhaustion is the only thing in the entire game, that forces you to wait, that limits spell usage by making you wait. Everything else can be removed fast!

There are 17 exhaustion spells and shock and gale are the only ones used often. So a mechanic that makes people not use skills at all, is balanced?

It would be enough actually to make exhaustion go away faster, when you are not fighting, just like the extra health regeneration.

Dark Pact: 102 armor ignoring damage within 6 seconds. Life sacrifice. 1 second casting time and 2 seconds recharge. If you extrapolate the damage to 7 seconds, you get 119.
Obsidian Flame: 118 armor ignoring damage within 7 seconds. Causes exhaustion. 2 seconds casting time. 5 seconds recharge.

Difference is that obsidian flame comes as spike damage and one of few skills in elementalist arsenal that ignore armor.

Whereas Dark Pact is more of weak pressure and but one amonst many necromancer armor ignoring skills.

Sacrifice skills are ballanced on fact that they need another party member expend energy too. They share energy costs of offensive characters with teams monks.

I think that you dont understand one thing: Exhausting skills are very flexible thanks to exchaustion.

If necesary, you CAN spam them, but you can also play smart and use them infrequently, but to huge effect.

For example, if Obsidian flame didnt have exhaustion, it would have to have recharge of 20-30 seconds. Which makes it useless. With exhaustion, it is completelly up to player to decide its recharge time. They can use it just like it was non-exhaustion skill with huge recahrge, but they can tactically change how they use it based on current situation. You just cant use long recharging skill as freely as exhausting skill. Its win/win and cool design.

If exchaustion went away fast in noncombat situations, gameplay would soon degenerate to tactics where GvG people mindlessly spam exhausting skills and wipe oposition and then enjoy fast exhaustion removal rate untill opostion reses.

Which would lead to serious nerfs of skills that would suddenly become problem as exhaustion would be basically unexistant or much less severe...

crazybanshee

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

Look out!

E/

04 May 2008 at 17:24 - 39

exhaustion is a good mechanic, so you can have powerful skills but not be able to spam them ad infinitum. I play a ele touch spiker (ride the lightning etc) for fun in ra, it's all about managing exhaustion. Keeps the game interesting. Without it they'd have to nerf all the spells that use it cause they'd be too powerful.

kazjun

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

HoVa

W/N

05 May 2008 at 00:37 - 40

/unsigned

Though the potential to use shock as a general interrupt makes me drool.