March 18 update - Real Money Trading Policy
Saint Zeth
The update is a step in the right direction, but its not enough to stop bots completely.
Ctb
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| Aren't IP bans ineffective to a degree because of dynamic IPs? |
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| Anyone using a router can change their ip in a few seconds, just by changing the MAC address for the router. |
You can change it by changing your modem's MAC (which it may or may not have picked up from the connected router) and sending a new DHCP request, but most ISPs keep a record of MAC addresses on their network and won't let you on if they don't recognize you.
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| I wonder if I will get banned, my computer is protected by the firewall of my university... Don't know what kind of security they have built in, but for example, I cant Change Wikipedia articles because they cant "see" my IP-adress... |
I forget the exact mechanism, but HTTP headers provide a way for a proxy to indicate it's forwarding someone else's requests, if the proxy's administrator decides to do so. That's probably what wikipedia is griping about.
shoyon456
Ok, so this was and may still be a large problem, but we are FINALLY once again seeing what anet does best: cater to the community at large
Do more of this instead of pleasing individual groups please anet I beg. Keep doing stuff like this that ALL can be thankful for, instead of continually buffing one class, nerfing another, and making sure signs can be clicked on (and no one even uses them, quest arrows HELLO?!)
So yeah good update, I wish this much effort was put into skill balancing and potential new skills (i can dream)
Do more of this instead of pleasing individual groups please anet I beg. Keep doing stuff like this that ALL can be thankful for, instead of continually buffing one class, nerfing another, and making sure signs can be clicked on (and no one even uses them, quest arrows HELLO?!)
So yeah good update, I wish this much effort was put into skill balancing and potential new skills (i can dream)
draxynnic
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Originally Posted by kai_razorwind
Wow...way to go Arenanet! The game is *JUST* out for 3 years, and you're already taking measures against something that has been happening since june 2005! Hats off to ya! And maybe while you're at it, why not try to address the real problem, which is that your friggin drop rates suck? Why the heck do you think that people buy ingame gold? *HINT* you've got a "casual" game that rewards heavy farmers.
Thank god you're game developers and not running a country. |
Beyond that, it's all vanity items that don't mechanically improve your character. If you're going to point at something that ruins things for the casual gamer, look at title grind, not the economy.
Regarding gold sellers: While they have been around since release, they do seem to have become more obnoxious in their in-game advertising lately.
Lest121
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Originally Posted by kai_razorwind
Wow...way to go Arenanet! The game is *JUST* out for 3 years, and you're already taking measures against something that has been happening since june 2005! Hats off to ya! And maybe while you're at it, why not try to address the real problem, which is that your friggin drop rates suck? Why the heck do you think that people buy ingame gold? *HINT* you've got a "casual" game that rewards heavy farmers.
Thank god you're game developers and not running a country. |
Shayne Hawke
I'm not really feeling how effective this will be. I'm glad that they at least show some sign of realizing that this is getting way out of hand, but just slapping a sticker on it and saying "we don't like this" doesn't really seem like it's doing much.
samcobra
Bots make money for ANET. Just keep banning them and forcing them to buy new accounts.
VanDamselx
Remove Lewt Skaling!
Stockholm
The Bot's finaly made the BIG MISTAKE
They stepped in to the the Dev's "favorit child" territory and they decided to act.
Don't mess with the PvP area or you get the nerfbat around your ears.
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| Bots farming RA for Zaishen Keys |
Don't mess with the PvP area or you get the nerfbat around your ears.
VitisVinifera
yeah day late a dollar short, I'm chalking this up to being a test run for GW 2. These sorts of things should be easily adaptable to bigger and better things in the future.
fusa
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No. Well... sort of. You can change it by changing your modem's MAC (which it may or may not have picked up from the connected router) and sending a new DHCP request, but most ISPs keep a record of MAC addresses on their network and won't let you on if they don't recognize you. |
Tom Swift
24 hours before new account can trade?
The first few hours for a new user determines whether they will continue or not - I don't see that blocking trade is going to do anything other than convince new users this game is not for them.
As to bots - they will simply begin creating accounts and then waiting 24 hours to use that specific account - it won't slow them down as they will use a day old account while the 24 hours runs on the newly created ones. It's not like they only use one account at a time.
totally useless.
The first few hours for a new user determines whether they will continue or not - I don't see that blocking trade is going to do anything other than convince new users this game is not for them.
As to bots - they will simply begin creating accounts and then waiting 24 hours to use that specific account - it won't slow them down as they will use a day old account while the 24 hours runs on the newly created ones. It's not like they only use one account at a time.
totally useless.
fusa
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Originally Posted by Tom Swift
24 hours before new account can trade?
The first few hours for a new user determines whether they will continue or not - I don't see that blocking trade is going to do anything other than convince new users this game is not for them. As to bots - they will simply begin creating accounts and then waiting 24 hours to use that specific account - it won't slow them down as they will use a day old account while the 24 hours runs on the newly created ones. It's not like they only use one account at a time. totally useless. |
...and while they wait the 24 hours A-net has detected the fraudulent credit card information used to buy the account and banned it.
Esan
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Originally Posted by Stockholm
They stepped in to the the Dev's "favorit child" territory and they decided to act.
Don't mess with the PvP area or you get the nerfbat around your ears. |
Unreal Havoc
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Originally Posted by Tom Swift
24 hours before new account can trade?
The first few hours for a new user determines whether they will continue or not - I don't see that blocking trade is going to do anything other than convince new users this game is not for them. |
24 hours isn't really a big deal. If you can't wait 24 hours to trade an item in a videogame you just started (when you probably know little about trading anyway and will more than likely be concentrating on levelling up) then you are seriously impatient.
MarlinBackna
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Originally Posted by kai_razorwind
Wow...way to go Arenanet! The game is *JUST* out for 3 years, and you're already taking measures against something that has been happening since june 2005! Hats off to ya! And maybe while you're at it, why not try to address the real problem, which is that your friggin drop rates suck? Why the heck do you think that people buy ingame gold? *HINT* you've got a "casual" game that rewards heavy farmers.
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I don't think drop rates suck. In fact, I think the main reason why GW's economy is so bad off is that too many weapons drop period (from whites to golds). Money isn't that hard to come by in GW (this coming from a currently poor person).
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| Bots make money for ANET. Just keep banning them and forcing them to buy new accounts. |
The Meth
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* We are adding the ability to block certain IP addresses from the game. In the coming days and weeks, we will be using this capability to block addresses of RMT companies that heavily abuse the game. * We are also adding code to detect and block IP addresses that are running an open proxy, so that players cannot mask their real IP address by connecting to the game through an open proxy. |
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| * To combat a growing problem with account fraud, newly created accounts are now restricted from trading with other players within the first 24 hours after account creation. Please see today’s Dev Update for more information on this change. |
Why is anet wasting their manpower on futilely trying to stop gold sellers, who only hurt the uber rich people who need to have stacks of armbraces to feel happy? Honestly, even the "were working on GW2" excuse pleases me more then this. At best nothing will change, at worst you may hurt your own players.
Esan
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Originally Posted by The Meth
Why is anet wasting their manpower on futilely trying to stop gold sellers [...]?
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Aera Lure
Its a little curious to try and combat this now after not having done it for so long. The only thing I can think of is its a test for GW2.
I'm not sure its enough, but it is a step in the right direction, so it is commendable.
I'm not sure its enough, but it is a step in the right direction, so it is commendable.
The Meth
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Originally Posted by Esan
Why have clauses in the EULA if they shall never be enforced?
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Have you ever heard of anet banning people for any of these reasons:
An account owner being under the age of 18? (I started my account when I was 16, guess I should be banned)
Having character name resembling the real name of any person, company or trademark? (also applies to guild names)
Not keeping updated account information? (I've changed my email multiple times, ban me again!)
Banning people who bought a new account after already being banned on their first? (Anet actually encourages this, lol)
As stated in the EULA:
NC Interactive reserves the right to enforce any or all of these rules at its sole discretion.
I'm saying that the method they are using to enforce these rules shows a lack of good discretion.
Velise_Snowtorm
Well I'm happy they have taken this more visual action. I logged into Balth Int1 and saw no gold seller spambots and wasn't PM-spammed.
I think the "24-hours before trade" on new accounts is a nice step as well.
Thanks ANET for thwapping the gold-seller spammage!
I think the "24-hours before trade" on new accounts is a nice step as well.
Thanks ANET for thwapping the gold-seller spammage!
Trinity Fire Angel
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Originally Posted by Antheus
Open Proxy =/= any firewall.
They are blacklisting known proxies, not whitelisting non-proxied clients. In other words, in order to get filtered by this, you need to actively route connection through a third-party external proxy, not associated with your network. This kind of thing cannot happen by accident, unless your ISP is doing something really shady. Proxied connections of this type are also of considerably lesser quality when used for real-time networking. |
Witchblade
an update that shows up 2 years late, though 
but oh well, why not...
but oh well, why not...
bhavv
Everything that Anet does shows up too late. They seem to leave everything that the community requests, particularly in HA for months and months after it was actually needed. They are just slow at everything, but at least they get around to doing something eventually.
segnisletum
Anet can't do right by doing wrong with some people it seems.
Nice update. Its the first step in the right direction.
And the 24 hour thing wont hurt anyone. It is new accounts. New players aren't going to be trading, they don't know what is worth what. And they don't have nearly enough money to buy anything. And if it is an old player starting up a legit 2nd account, 24 hours isn't going to hurt him/her.
Nice update. Its the first step in the right direction.
And the 24 hour thing wont hurt anyone. It is new accounts. New players aren't going to be trading, they don't know what is worth what. And they don't have nearly enough money to buy anything. And if it is an old player starting up a legit 2nd account, 24 hours isn't going to hurt him/her.
Jenn
The only thing I want to know is:
WILL THE LOOT SCALING FINALLY BE REMOVED?!
Please
/beg
/plead
I will give anet cookies?
WILL THE LOOT SCALING FINALLY BE REMOVED?!
Please
/beg
/plead
I will give anet cookies?
Chthon
1. I'm very pleased with the new changes and I completely agree with the policies behind them.
2. Let me repeat #1. I'm very pleased with the new changes and I completely agree with the policies behind them.
3. I am a bit apprehensive that there will be too many false positives. Adequate care is not taken with account bans, and I certainly hope support is more careful with IP bans.
4.
First of all, as Fusa said, the clock may have already started ticking on that account's eventual ban. If it takes 48 hours for a-net to catch up to credit card fraud and ban the account, removing 24 hours of trade cuts the value of a new account in half, doubling the cost to the RMT company.
Second of all, guessing when accounts are going to be banned and need replaced is bound to be an imprecise science. Up till now, when an account got banned, they could buy a new one on the spot and be up and running again. Now they can't do that. If they buy too many accounts in anticipation of bans that don't come as soon as expected, they waste money on more accounts than they have farming employees and/or spammable districts for; and if they buy too few accounts because bans come sooner than expected, they end up with gold farming employees and/or a spammable districts without enough accounts to exploit them. Either way the RMT company's bottom line gets driven up.
2. Let me repeat #1. I'm very pleased with the new changes and I completely agree with the policies behind them.
3. I am a bit apprehensive that there will be too many false positives. Adequate care is not taken with account bans, and I certainly hope support is more careful with IP bans.
4.
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Originally Posted by Tom Swift
24 hours before new account can trade?
... As to bots - they will simply begin creating accounts and then waiting 24 hours to use that specific account - it won't slow them down as they will use a day old account while the 24 hours runs on the newly created ones. It's not like they only use one account at a time. totally useless. |
Second of all, guessing when accounts are going to be banned and need replaced is bound to be an imprecise science. Up till now, when an account got banned, they could buy a new one on the spot and be up and running again. Now they can't do that. If they buy too many accounts in anticipation of bans that don't come as soon as expected, they waste money on more accounts than they have farming employees and/or spammable districts for; and if they buy too few accounts because bans come sooner than expected, they end up with gold farming employees and/or a spammable districts without enough accounts to exploit them. Either way the RMT company's bottom line gets driven up.
lorazcyk
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Originally Posted by Chthon
... doubling the cost to the RMT company.
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Originally Posted by Chthon
...they could buy a new one on the spot and be up and running again. Now they can't do that.
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Originally Posted by Chthon
..... they waste money on more accounts than they have farming employees
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Originally Posted by Chthon
.... and/or spammable districts for...
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Originally Posted by Chthon
...they end up with gold farming employees.
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Esan
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Originally Posted by The Meth
I'm saying that the method they are using to enforce these rules shows a lack of good discretion.
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I suppose you are trying to make the point that it is better to have a good design than to buttress a bad design with lots of rules. Regardless of the merit of that position, it is not an enforcement issue, which is all this update is about.
The Meth
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Originally Posted by Esan
Your post seems to contradict your conclusion. (I assume you mean their method of picking what rules to enforce than their technical method of enforcing said rules.) They don't enforce rules that are obviously there primarily as a CYA measure. Instead, they enforce those rules that harm the game economy, user account security and the gameplay experience. Why would you want them not to enforce these rules?
I suppose you are trying to make the point that it is better to have a good design than to buttress a bad design with lots of rules. Regardless of the merit of that position, it is not an enforcement issue, which is all this update is about. |
The problem with user account security is that the users are dumb and greedy. Bot users are not hacking anet and stealing keys, they are not guessing peoples passwords. They are stealing keys through players dumb enough to download supposed 'cheats' or even so dumb as to give the botter access to the account itself.
"Gameplay expereience"? Last I checked, bots didn't follow you out of the cities.
How much are bots really harming you, really? There are going to be false positives, there will be innocent people banned. I have faith in Anet that they are going to minimize those as much as possible, but there will be some. Do you believe that ignoring a single PM every time you go to balthazars temple is so much more important than someone else's game?
As I said before, I think we can assume anyone who runs an actual business that is profiting off gold selling is going to know how to change their IP address. Really, its not hard at all. I would LOVE anet to get rid of bots, but this current attempt will: A. Not actually help get rid of them, and B. Has the potential to harm REAL players.
Esan
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Originally Posted by The Meth
How much are bots really harming you, really?
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Originally Posted by The Meth
There are going to be false positives
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EmptySkull
I posted this on the othjer forum and post it here to make sure Anet sees it.
Thanks Anet for you well thought out multi-prong attack on Gold farming sweat shops and the crap that goes with it. Looks like instead of being knee-jerk in your actions, which could damage the game even further, several tactics were considered and now used to counter. Very nice indeed.
I do worry slightly about the fact that I trade several 100k lots for lockpicks and such in one trade. I have friends that will give me 600k + my small profit upfront. Then I will go buy the picks and trade them. Plus I have 2 accounts that I shuffle money back and forth regularly too. I only hope that your investigations can discern these instances.
Thanks Anet for you well thought out multi-prong attack on Gold farming sweat shops and the crap that goes with it. Looks like instead of being knee-jerk in your actions, which could damage the game even further, several tactics were considered and now used to counter. Very nice indeed.
I do worry slightly about the fact that I trade several 100k lots for lockpicks and such in one trade. I have friends that will give me 600k + my small profit upfront. Then I will go buy the picks and trade them. Plus I have 2 accounts that I shuffle money back and forth regularly too. I only hope that your investigations can discern these instances.
HawkofStorms
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Originally Posted by The Meth
All EULA's are basically a collection of things that need not be enforced, but are put in just in case the company has a problem and needs an excuse to terminate your account.
Have you ever heard of anet banning people for any of these reasons: An account owner being under the age of 18? (I started my account when I was 16, guess I should be banned) Having character name resembling the real name of any person, company or trademark? (also applies to guild names) Not keeping updated account information? (I've changed my email multiple times, ban me again!) Banning people who bought a new account after already being banned on their first? (Anet actually encourages this, lol) As stated in the EULA: NC Interactive reserves the right to enforce any or all of these rules at its sole discretion. I'm saying that the method they are using to enforce these rules shows a lack of good discretion. |
Not having updated account information means you don't have a claim to ownership. If two people dispute owning the same account and you don't have proof that its yours, the product can be taken away from you (even if it really was yours).
And the last one is basically a "we (a.net) told them (the players) not to do it" so you can't sue us Microsoft/Sony/Michael Jordan. Again, it is all about the fact that it is easier and cheaper to cover their own butts then to risk some legal settlement.
Blackhearted
So lemme get this right... It took them almost 3 years to learn how to do IP bans? If so then i can't really think of anything but "wow". And not the good kind of "wow" either.
I D E L E T E D I
I have to say nice Update Anet. What has happened they have brought 3 good updates in a row. I am shocked to say the least 
Mister Me
I had to accept the User Agreement twice :s
Kula
Yeah, Gaile already mentioned some people had to sign the EU twice.
I actually have high hopes for this potentially great update, in that perhaps...
...Just in case...
...Just maybe...
...You never know...
...It's a possibility...
..."Quizas, quizas, quizas"...
...on the slight chance that...
...now they can also get rid of loot scaling. We'll have to wait and see. (Would be kinda nice.)
I actually have high hopes for this potentially great update, in that perhaps...
...Just in case...
...Just maybe...
...You never know...
...It's a possibility...
..."Quizas, quizas, quizas"...
...on the slight chance that...
...now they can also get rid of loot scaling. We'll have to wait and see. (Would be kinda nice.)
Fril Estelin
Excellent move from Anet. I guess it's only the beginning because RMT companies will try to find ways around this policy. Ultimately it may end up in court, but as shown by Blizzard's case they can't win.
GG Anet, it's a pleasure to see you're moving in that direction.
GG Anet, it's a pleasure to see you're moving in that direction.
Iuris
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| Having character name resembling the real name of any person, company or trademark? (also applies to guild names) |
Ceterum censeo it is appropriate to implement these measures .
Ctb
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| You would need to reboot the modem and router for this change to occur. |
On my connection, if I change my modem's MAC address, I can't get on the network until I call the ISP because they lock the connection down by valid MACs.
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| not to mention that it is illegal for an ISP to host an open proxy |