Skill Updates: Should they keep PvE and PvP skill updates segregated?
IMO: If they do, it'll eliminate the conflict between the PvE/PvPer's in a nutshell. PvE and PvP have significant differences and thus, should have skills updated accordingly.
What's your opinion, GWars Community?
*Please stay on-topic and refrain from trolling/flaming.*
Skill Updates: Should they keep PvE and PvP skill updates segregated?
Regulus X
Shadowlance.
I'd say keep the skill changes linked. Otherwise it will get too complicated and confusing as common skills start the same but eventually diverge and eventually have totally different functionality between the two game modes.
I agree it is frustrating for folks who primarily play PvE to have skills ruined by balances required only for PvP, but I've learned to live with it as a necessary evil and it's just part of the game.
I agree it is frustrating for folks who primarily play PvE to have skills ruined by balances required only for PvP, but I've learned to live with it as a necessary evil and it's just part of the game.
Eldin
I would like them to keep them separate - many skills met their unjust nerfage due to PvP.
[skill]Penetrating Attack[/skill]
[skill]"I Will Avenge You!"[/skill]
[skill]Energizing Wind[/skill]
It'd be a big headache though, I doubt they will ever do it.
[skill]Penetrating Attack[/skill]
[skill]"I Will Avenge You!"[/skill]
[skill]Energizing Wind[/skill]
It'd be a big headache though, I doubt they will ever do it.
Shalban
No.
1. It will increase the adaptation time from PvE to PvP, which is already quite high.
2. I really don't understand the problem with skill balancing, regarding PvE. Is the game too hard? too easy? Because you can finish the main story in EOTN in less than a week.
3. There will always be conflicts between players. If you make different updates for each mode, people will start arguing why this skill was only nerfed/buffed on either A.
4. "URSAN r9++ LF 3 MORE URSAN 2 GO"
1. It will increase the adaptation time from PvE to PvP, which is already quite high.
2. I really don't understand the problem with skill balancing, regarding PvE. Is the game too hard? too easy? Because you can finish the main story in EOTN in less than a week.
3. There will always be conflicts between players. If you make different updates for each mode, people will start arguing why this skill was only nerfed/buffed on either A.
4. "URSAN r9++ LF 3 MORE URSAN 2 GO"
izzywish
I've thought about this one myself a lot too, especially after they nerfed LoD, I'm not a programmer myself, but I imagine they would have to assign every skill with two unique id codes to implement this. However there are too many examples to name where skills that work well in PvE, but just don't work in PvP, so I think it is a great idea if it is doable.
FlamingMetroid
I've had the chance to ask Gaile Gray, and the segregation of skills to PvP and PvE separately is not possible in the current GW build. I'ld personally prefer this, as I play the assassin, and due to the extreme nerfage of their skills, the PvP nerfs aren't far away from spilling in to the PvE players' realm.
EmptySkull
Well my opinion is no, because is they have already done that with PvE only skills. And people complain about them being to overpowered, NERF!. Or "They are PvE only leave my skills alone".
Plus how much sense would it make for 2 skills named the same thing do different things?
It's done , just not the way you and countless others have asked. They have PvE only skills but they just don't share names with any global skills.
Plus how much sense would it make for 2 skills named the same thing do different things?
It's done , just not the way you and countless others have asked. They have PvE only skills but they just don't share names with any global skills.
Phoenix Tears
This should have been done so from the start on of GW ...
PvE and Pvp should have separeted skill balancings ...
50%+ of the pvp Skill balance updates have let the pve side suffer for them -.- and that sucks and has to find an end. Wen not anymore for GW1, then for GW2!!!
PvE and Pvp should have separeted skill balancings ...
50%+ of the pvp Skill balance updates have let the pve side suffer for them -.- and that sucks and has to find an end. Wen not anymore for GW1, then for GW2!!!
skanvak
Definetly against (or make two game from the start). I am against any segregation. Actually I think the pve only to be stupid, if I can fight a monster with a skill I should be able to fight a player with it. Pvp should only be a way to test you skill against player but the two systems must share the same rules. That is part of the realistic aspect of game.
What you are asking is basicaly to have 2 different games. I don't want to play 2 games. I want to play a character that can go exploring and that can go fighting other player within the same universe/set of rules.
Beside : I am part of the NO MORE SKILL CHANGE group. Skill change should stay during the palytest part, period.
What you are asking is basicaly to have 2 different games. I don't want to play 2 games. I want to play a character that can go exploring and that can go fighting other player within the same universe/set of rules.
Beside : I am part of the NO MORE SKILL CHANGE group. Skill change should stay during the palytest part, period.
Savio
It's time for the weekly "split PvE and PVP" thread! Everyone loses except for the trolls!
I'd like to see you create strategic games that are perfectly balanced at release.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by skanvak
Skill change should stay during the palytest part, period.
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Tyla
No.
I like to rearrange and change my build after a nerf if the skills I use get hit in PvE -- It's one of the things that keeps me playing to be honest...
But Savio has a point in his post above mine....
I like to rearrange and change my build after a nerf if the skills I use get hit in PvE -- It's one of the things that keeps me playing to be honest...
But Savio has a point in his post above mine....
Tamuril elansar
against...
pve is really easy and even if your build gets stoned to death you take another build and own pve with that.
pve is really easy and even if your build gets stoned to death you take another build and own pve with that.
Tarun
/signed
Make them just like the Polymock skills. Exact copies but only slightly different.
Make them just like the Polymock skills. Exact copies but only slightly different.
Arkantos
No, they shouldn't.
PvErs need to learn how to adapt. We have every skill in the game and overpowered PvE skills. Stop getting mad because your powerful skill got nerfed and use another skill to replace it. As long as you don't suck at the game, there should be no problem. I mean seriously, no skill nerf should drastically affect you. There are over a thousand skills in the game, replace the skill that got nerfed. You'll still have the ability to easily roll the AI.
PvErs need to learn how to adapt. We have every skill in the game and overpowered PvE skills. Stop getting mad because your powerful skill got nerfed and use another skill to replace it. As long as you don't suck at the game, there should be no problem. I mean seriously, no skill nerf should drastically affect you. There are over a thousand skills in the game, replace the skill that got nerfed. You'll still have the ability to easily roll the AI.
Stockholm
Let them have an ingame poll, on the login page, and let the majority decide.
Wild Karrde
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shalban
No.
1. It will increase the adaptation time from PvE to PvP, which is already quite high. 2. I really don't understand the problem with skill balancing, regarding PvE. Is the game too hard? too easy? Because you can finish the main story in EOTN in less than a week. 3. There will always be conflicts between players. If you make different updates for each mode, people will start arguing why this skill was only nerfed/buffed on either A. 4. "URSAN r9++ LF 3 MORE URSAN 2 GO" |
All it would benefit is the farmers cause they cant adapt. They just go on whining till someone makes up another build to instablowshitup. While all other PvEers go on rolling enemy AI cause they dont just pout and whine
Kanyatta
I wish someone could riddle me this: Why do I always hear the same "Oh noez! The elitist PvPers got my skillz nurfed 4 PvE!!!!"
Seriously? Is PvE too hard for you? Anyone can complete any campaign in about 6 hours of playtime using H/H. I really don't see what the problem is.
Seriously? Is PvE too hard for you? Anyone can complete any campaign in about 6 hours of playtime using H/H. I really don't see what the problem is.
arcanemacabre
Beating the dead horse again, but /signed anyway. Not because of balances "ruining PvE" as so many claim, but because it would be nice for PvE to have the full range of skill choices, and PvP skills to be balanced without breaking something in PvE (such as LoD needing to be replaced with WoH on Mhenlo).
Don't get me wrong, having 1, 5, or even 200 skills nerfed doesn't matter in PvE, it's true. We still have all them imba PvE skills, terrible AI, and the foresight of what the enemy is bringing all to our advantage. However, and I think this is the real issue, some skills get nerfed so much that they are no longer viable at all, such as "Watch Yourself!", "Incoming!", LoD, etc. Yeah, you can still use them, and it's not like you'll lose because hey, "it's PvE!" But the point is, no one is going to use them because there are simply better skills - these skills that are nerfed to oblivion are now simply replaced, and we ultimately have less skills to choose from.
This is most evident in skills/attributes that are underpowered in PvE simply because if they were increased in effectiveness at all, they would be overpowered in PvP. Good examples of this are life steal skills and Water magic. What's funny, is this works the other way around, too. Look at the Necro's Soul Reaping - imba in PvE, fairly balanced to almost useless in PvP. There's no way to balance that mechanic for both without making it function differently between PvP and PvE. Hell, look at almost any AoE nuke - they're all pretty useless in PvP, and almost a requirement in PvE.
Don't get me wrong, having 1, 5, or even 200 skills nerfed doesn't matter in PvE, it's true. We still have all them imba PvE skills, terrible AI, and the foresight of what the enemy is bringing all to our advantage. However, and I think this is the real issue, some skills get nerfed so much that they are no longer viable at all, such as "Watch Yourself!", "Incoming!", LoD, etc. Yeah, you can still use them, and it's not like you'll lose because hey, "it's PvE!" But the point is, no one is going to use them because there are simply better skills - these skills that are nerfed to oblivion are now simply replaced, and we ultimately have less skills to choose from.
This is most evident in skills/attributes that are underpowered in PvE simply because if they were increased in effectiveness at all, they would be overpowered in PvP. Good examples of this are life steal skills and Water magic. What's funny, is this works the other way around, too. Look at the Necro's Soul Reaping - imba in PvE, fairly balanced to almost useless in PvP. There's no way to balance that mechanic for both without making it function differently between PvP and PvE. Hell, look at almost any AoE nuke - they're all pretty useless in PvP, and almost a requirement in PvE.
cellardweller
PvP balances keep PvE interesting. Stagnant skill bars leads to stagnant gameplay.
/not signed once more.
/not signed once more.
arcanemacabre
Quote:
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Originally Posted by cellardweller
PvP balances keep PvE interesting. Stagnant skill bars leads to stagnant gameplay.
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RavagerOfDreams
/notsigned
almost every skill that gets nerfed for pvp has a pve skill equivalent to take its place
watch yourself -> save yourself
flame Djjins haste -> Mindbender
almost every skill that gets nerfed for pvp has a pve skill equivalent to take its place
watch yourself -> save yourself
flame Djjins haste -> Mindbender
Konig Des Todes
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shalban
No.
1. It will increase the adaptation time from PvE to PvP, which is already quite high. 2. I really don't understand the problem with skill balancing, regarding PvE. Is the game too hard? too easy? Because you can finish the main story in EOTN in less than a week. 3. There will always be conflicts between players. If you make different updates for each mode, people will start arguing why this skill was only nerfed/buffed on either A. 4. "URSAN r9++ LF 3 MORE URSAN 2 GO" |
2) Don't use EN as an example of how short the game is, it is an expansion, it is suppose to be short. Also, people complain not because of the story line difficulty, but because it changes their builds, mainly for the elite areas and, o yeah, Hard Mode.
3) Yes there will always be conflicts, but this will reduce the amount. And why the skill was nerfed/buffed won't be a problem because people already know why skills are nerfed/buffed now.
4) No point in this, leave it out next time, not all PvEers use Ursan.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by skanvak
Definetly against (or make two game from the start). I am against any segregation. Actually I think the pve only to be stupid, if I can fight a monster with a skill I should be able to fight a player with it. Pvp should only be a way to test you skill against player but the two systems must share the same rules. That is part of the realistic aspect of game.
What you are asking is basicaly to have 2 different games. I don't want to play 2 games. I want to play a character that can go exploring and that can go fighting other player within the same universe/set of rules. Beside : I am part of the NO MORE SKILL CHANGE group. Skill change should stay during the palytest part, period. |
Now for not commenting on others. Of what I have noticed, many people are speaking in the defense of PvP. Mainly with "PvEers have to adapt" and stuff like that. I think that this would benefit PvPers as well as just PvEers, because skills that are used to over farm something in PvE get nurfed too, not as much I know but still get nurfed.
I say that what should be implemented are some PvP only skills so that people can stop QQing about PvEers getting non-profession skills which ruin the game and whatnot. A few skills being nurfed because of PvP, or vice versa, does get annoying, but being able to change skills is a good thing and allows for some fun in being able to make new builds that work. What I highly disagree with, is destroying whole professions, like mesmers. And no, Paragons were not slaughtered, just harmed majorly, just as necromancers were, but are now climbing back up.
HawkofStorms
/notsigned
It would become WAY to confusing after a few months of updates. How the heck are you suppsoed to keep track of 2 completely different set of 1000+ skills that have identical names.
The narrowminded people who bitch and can't adapt to a skill update would be NOTHING compared to the amount of complaining by people like me who don't want the skill system to become even MORE complicated (keep in mind they are making GW2 in part because GW1 is too "bloated').
It would become WAY to confusing after a few months of updates. How the heck are you suppsoed to keep track of 2 completely different set of 1000+ skills that have identical names.
The narrowminded people who bitch and can't adapt to a skill update would be NOTHING compared to the amount of complaining by people like me who don't want the skill system to become even MORE complicated (keep in mind they are making GW2 in part because GW1 is too "bloated').
Abedeus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by cellardweller
PvP balances keep PvE interesting. Stagnant skill bars leads to stagnant gameplay.
/not signed once more. |
Isileth
I lean towards being against this.
The main reason being I worry if they are seperate then it would easily open the door for even more PvE skill like skills. PvE also needs to be balanced so that its challenging. And as other have said, if its to powerful to use against a player than its damn sure going to be overpowered against the weaker AI.
The main reason being I worry if they are seperate then it would easily open the door for even more PvE skill like skills. PvE also needs to be balanced so that its challenging. And as other have said, if its to powerful to use against a player than its damn sure going to be overpowered against the weaker AI.
RedStar
/notsigned
The main reason is that it would be hard to keep track on each skills descriptions and what about buffs ? if a skill gets a buff in PvE, Pvpers may whine (or the other way around).
The main reason is that it would be hard to keep track on each skills descriptions and what about buffs ? if a skill gets a buff in PvE, Pvpers may whine (or the other way around).
R.Shayne
PvE only and don't mind the skill updates, just learn to roll with it. What I do mind is the Henchmen skill bars are rarely updated after we have a pvp skill change.
/Signed
I would still rather see the introduction of more pve skills only - give some life back to the paragon.
/Signed
I would still rather see the introduction of more pve skills only - give some life back to the paragon.
arcanemacabre
Quote:
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Originally Posted by R.Shayne
PvE only and don't mind the skill updates, just learn to roll with it. What I do mind is the Henchmen skill bars are rarely updated after we have a pvp skill change.
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This could be added in with the same update that allows henchmen into elite areas. Yeah, would be nice...
parathract
It is important to maintain balance in both PVP and PVE, and it is obvious that what may apply in PVP mode may not apply in PVE. Personally I think they do a good job of balancing as it is, which is very hard to begin with, you can not keep everyone happy after all. You also can not predict all the possible exploits available in PVE and PVP, the art of soloing in PVE for example. I think it is important to maintain balance, and I would look forward to seperation of pve and pvp skill balancing.
One thing I would like to see is Synergy bonuses and penalties when certain skills are on the same skill bar with each other. For example, say if someone can exploit a skill set to farm and solo, simply add a penalty when those major skills are with each other. Or when certain skills are not used often together, give a bonus, like reduced casting time or reduced energy cost. This could encourage fair and reasonable play instead of people just trying to exploit everything.
One thing I would like to see is Synergy bonuses and penalties when certain skills are on the same skill bar with each other. For example, say if someone can exploit a skill set to farm and solo, simply add a penalty when those major skills are with each other. Or when certain skills are not used often together, give a bonus, like reduced casting time or reduced energy cost. This could encourage fair and reasonable play instead of people just trying to exploit everything.
bhavv
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Savio
I'd like to see you create strategic games that are perfectly balanced at release.
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skanvak
As that was first directed to me. Savio, I should say that after 25+ years of playing strategic game, I don't give a dime about perfect balancing. The best strategic game I ever played : Empire in Arms, is NOT balanced and that was make it interesting. But Mare Nostrum which is a totally balanced game is BORING.
So I care more about flavor than about good balancing. Beside for pvp, counter to all build exist (except bugs like the recent black aura exploit but it will be only 1 or 2 fix in a year).
So I care more about flavor than about good balancing. Beside for pvp, counter to all build exist (except bugs like the recent black aura exploit but it will be only 1 or 2 fix in a year).
bhavv
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RavagerOfDreams
/notsigned
almost every skill that gets nerfed for pvp has a pve skill equivalent to take its place watch yourself -> save yourself flame Djjins haste -> Mindbender |
I'm an Elly, I dont run around with WY or SY on me, I used to take WY on heroes.
LoD and WY nerfs are just RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed up for PVE.
skanvak
What does this "red engine go" mean? Couldn't you speak normally?
Same thing for QQ.
Same thing for QQ.
Targuil
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Originally Posted by skanvak
What does this "red engine go" mean? Couldn't you speak normally?
Same thing for QQ. |
Savio
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bhavv
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Or maybe it wasn't balanced at release.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by R.Shayne
I would still rather see the introduction of more pve skills only - give some life back to the paragon.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by skanvak
The best strategic game I ever played : Empire in Arms, is NOT balanced and that was make it interesting. But Mare Nostrum which is a totally balanced game is BORING.
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CHannum
Keep'em separate in this and EVERY game where there is a "single player" and PvP side because for the majority of players the two almost never meet. There's no reason why what a small group of player characters do against another small group of player characters should have any effect on choices of skill balance for a small team of player characters against hundreds of mobs and vice versa. The context the skills get used are completely different, player expectations are completely different, and the effect on the respective player base is completely different (i.e. a skill combo that proves nigh unbeatable in PvP is a problem for everybody not using said combo, a skill combo that lets somebody solo a difficult area with nice drops in PvE is brilliant 
).
).
Numa Pompilius
This is, what, the fourth? thread on this subjecti n a few days, and I'll say the same thing here as I've said there:
Ursan and the other ridiculously overpowered PvE-only skills are living proof why it's a GOOD THING that PvP rebalancing affects PvE, and why separating PvE from PvP is a BAD THING.
Learn to adapt. This is a dynamically changing game, get out of your comfort zone and learn to change your skillset and use more than one build.
Ursan and the other ridiculously overpowered PvE-only skills are living proof why it's a GOOD THING that PvP rebalancing affects PvE, and why separating PvE from PvP is a BAD THING.
Learn to adapt. This is a dynamically changing game, get out of your comfort zone and learn to change your skillset and use more than one build.
Sleeper Service
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
This is, what, the fourth? thread on this subjecti n a few days, and I'll say the same thing here as I've said there:
Ursan and the other ridiculously overpowered PvE-only skills are living proof why it's a GOOD THING that PvP rebalancing affects PvE, and why separating PvE from PvP is a BAD THING. Learn to adapt. This is a dynamically changing game, get out of your comfort zone and learn to change your skillset and use more than one build. |
ive said this many many many times (but i dunno it seems hard to grasp?) Balance is not the same in PVP and PVE.
On the other hand a skill like Ursan is just what the PVP "community" seems to be blaring out for these days, i mean...if everyone equipped it then it would all be about player skill no?
there you go, perfectly balanced pvp.
Get it now? skills like that are BORING, they are the very antithesis of what this game should be about.
I love this "learn to adapt" bs, PVP meta is nothing but a never ending stream of buffs and nerfs BECAUSE people just go for that FOTM and (except for a very select few) seem to be totally blinded by any possible counter or tactic that could be taken, choosing instead to patiently abuse those skills until Anet comes in and takes their toy away.
/Signed for a separation of skillsets. It was retarded to keep them together when the environment in which they are used is so radically different, its like expecting your car to be able to function correctly underwater for crying out loud.
miles
if they did this after a few updates they would have 2 completly different games, and the whole point of guildwars (originally) is to beat the pve, and than continue onto the pvp aspect of the game once you have learned the basic mechanics.
why does it matter if the skills are changed? is the pve really that much harder that you have to actually rework your bar and think about what you are doing? god forbid thinking in pve >.>
you are crying for "balance" in pve but its pretty obvious that there are certain things that are completly imbalanced by nature, for example, every pve skill... ever. al you have to do is look at the wiki and see the counterpart skills they suggest, and they are infinatly worse.
the complete split will never happen, the closest thing you will get is pve skills which has already happened.
why does it matter if the skills are changed? is the pve really that much harder that you have to actually rework your bar and think about what you are doing? god forbid thinking in pve >.>
you are crying for "balance" in pve but its pretty obvious that there are certain things that are completly imbalanced by nature, for example, every pve skill... ever. al you have to do is look at the wiki and see the counterpart skills they suggest, and they are infinatly worse.
the complete split will never happen, the closest thing you will get is pve skills which has already happened.
BlackSephir
No, I like to see PvP community getting blamed for everything.
omg shadow walk nerf, fu pvp
omg 9/11 fu pvp
omg shadow walk nerf, fu pvp
omg 9/11 fu pvp