Is this skill completely useless, like the rest of the blood line or does it have some sort of hidden and overlooked merit? The mandragors in Nightfall paired with Shelboh seem to execute this skill very well and it can be devastating being hit with multiple Ravenous Gazes. (At blood magic 16, this skill will steal 120 health in one go if the caster is beneath 50% health. If you get hit by more than 3-5 of these it's good bye.)
So far to me it seems this skill only truly shines when you're below 50% health.
The question is; how do you remain perpetually beneath 50% health, not die, and utilize this as anything more than purely defensive?
Ravenous Gaze; utterly useless?
Drakken Breathes Fire
Carinae
Yes. It's useless. You can't achieve the condition reliably because someone is likely gonna heal you before you can cast.
It seems to work great on PvE monsters because...they don't have a healer. Also because in HM they have level 20 Blood Magic.
It should probably be changed to trigger if the target is below 80%.
It seems to work great on PvE monsters because...they don't have a healer. Also because in HM they have level 20 Blood Magic.
It should probably be changed to trigger if the target is below 80%.
ZenRgy
It's a bad skill, the condition is terrible.
Drakken Breathes Fire
Indeed. In every play testing scenario I've tried, this skill CANNOT be utilized efficiently by a human player. Hurray Blood magic! The one trick pony. I was just hoping there was SOMETHING I'd over looked =\
For an elite version of Vampiric Gaze, it's not very elite at all.
For an elite version of Vampiric Gaze, it's not very elite at all.
Gift3d
Word of Healing; utterly useless?
Is this skill completely useless, like the rest of the healing line or does it have some sort of hidden and overlooked merit? The Shadow Monks in FoW paired with the Priest of Menzies seem to execute this skill very well and it can be devastating being healed with multiple Word of Healings. (At healing prayers 16, this skill will heal 138 health in one go if the target is below 50% health. If you get healed by more than 3-5 of these you will live.)
So far to me it seems this skill only truly shines when you're below 50% health.
The question is; how do you remain perpetually beneath 50% health, not die, and utilize this as anything more than purely defensive?
Is this skill completely useless, like the rest of the healing line or does it have some sort of hidden and overlooked merit? The Shadow Monks in FoW paired with the Priest of Menzies seem to execute this skill very well and it can be devastating being healed with multiple Word of Healings. (At healing prayers 16, this skill will heal 138 health in one go if the target is below 50% health. If you get healed by more than 3-5 of these you will live.)
So far to me it seems this skill only truly shines when you're below 50% health.
The question is; how do you remain perpetually beneath 50% health, not die, and utilize this as anything more than purely defensive?
- Tain -
^wtf?
The condition is very effective on a healing spell, yes... because it makes sense. Having this condition on an offensive spell such as this does not make sense. It implies that you're using your elite for a weak self-heal. Bad, bad, bad...
The condition is very effective on a healing spell, yes... because it makes sense. Having this condition on an offensive spell such as this does not make sense. It implies that you're using your elite for a weak self-heal. Bad, bad, bad...
Drakken Breathes Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood
It seems to work great on PvE monsters because...they don't have a healer. Also because in HM they have level 20 Blood Magic.
It should probably be changed to trigger if the target is below 80%. I think it'd be a much better skill if it triggered while the target was above 50.
Then, when said target was at 50% health or less, the life stealing drops dramatically, because if vampire lore tells us anything, people run out of blood to drink, the skill sort of lives up to it's name.
As it stands now, it's just another horribly bad blood magic elite.
I hear there's a lot of them.
jayce
the skill needs a 1/4 cast time whenever below 50% health is a requirement. 1 second cast time just doesn't cut it. it also needs a functionality change so that the conditional life stealing occurs reguardless of whether or not you are still below 50% health after the initial life steal. in its current form, the skill might as well say 'when you are below @45% health'.
with these changes, the skill would be approaching 'boarderline overpowered' because right now as it stands, the skill can kill with ease and can also save you when monk heals are hard to find.
Jayce Of Underworld
with these changes, the skill would be approaching 'boarderline overpowered' because right now as it stands, the skill can kill with ease and can also save you when monk heals are hard to find.
Jayce Of Underworld
Draginvry
Utterly useless for two reasons:
1) The skill sucks unless the condition is met.
2) The condition won't be met if you have a competent monk in your party.
1) The skill sucks unless the condition is met.
2) The condition won't be met if you have a competent monk in your party.
Yoshikuni Mahsu
But anyway, let me spell this out for you kurzick and jonnie:
He's comparing it to WoH: They both heal for x amount, + x amount if the condition (below 50% hp) is met.
Where they differ, is that, besides the recharge and energy cost difference, Ravenous Gaze cannot target allies while WoH can.
But, Ravenous gaze has a upside compared to WoH: That health that you're gaining is being taken from the target, AKA: you're healing yourself and doing damage at the same time.
So its up to you to decide: Do you want to be able to do damage at 10en 8r, or be able to target an ally at 5en 3r?
Now, it seems like a decent tradeoff, no? The problem (and why ravenous is so useless) is that healing yourself and doing dmg too meet such a randomly timed condition, doesnt in any way fit into a coordinated team (GvG, TA, HA). However, I do see a very possibly-potent HB or PvE build focusing on pressure using this skill, assuming hero's can use it properly.
I do think it deserves a buff to 5en (possibly 5r), and more life stealing.
EDIT: Ravenous also steals/heals for less than WoH.
He's comparing it to WoH: They both heal for x amount, + x amount if the condition (below 50% hp) is met.
Where they differ, is that, besides the recharge and energy cost difference, Ravenous Gaze cannot target allies while WoH can.
But, Ravenous gaze has a upside compared to WoH: That health that you're gaining is being taken from the target, AKA: you're healing yourself and doing damage at the same time.
So its up to you to decide: Do you want to be able to do damage at 10en 8r, or be able to target an ally at 5en 3r?
Now, it seems like a decent tradeoff, no? The problem (and why ravenous is so useless) is that healing yourself and doing dmg too meet such a randomly timed condition, doesnt in any way fit into a coordinated team (GvG, TA, HA). However, I do see a very possibly-potent HB or PvE build focusing on pressure using this skill, assuming hero's can use it properly.
I do think it deserves a buff to 5en (possibly 5r), and more life stealing.
EDIT: Ravenous also steals/heals for less than WoH.
Jam Jar
Guys think about it this way. If you remove the 50%, then you'll be doing 120 dmg per 5 seconds. That's a lot since you're also using other skills as well.
blue.rellik
Well it's needed to get the Skill Hunter title....
Drakken Breathes Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abedeus
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
Justice, you managed to get confused about the spell's effect. If that's how the spell worked it'd be pretty great.
If that's how it worked it'd be worth calling an elite.
Though people would then complain blood magic became 'too powerful.'
moko
i don't know why you guys posted all this trash, but don't do it again.
mistokibbles
The question is : why would you bring ravenous gaze? There are much better necro elites to bring even if they're from the blood line. Soul leech, well of power, spoil victor, or reaper's mark.
Stormlord Alex
It's a bad skill.
Unless they rework it entirely, though, it needs to stay a bad skill because Bloodspike is ghey. Kinda like a lot of the rest of Blood Magic, really - if life-steals and Blood DDs actually start doing decent damage, Bloodspike can rear its ugly head and haunt PvP once again.
Marverick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jam Jar
Guys think about it this way. If you remove the 50%, then you'll be doing 120 dmg per 5 seconds. That's a lot since you're also using other skills as well.
Really? The rest of the blood line sucks for direct damage.
Drakken Breathes Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
It's a bad skill.
Unless they rework it entirely, though, it needs to stay a bad skill because Bloodspike is ghey. Kinda like a lot of the rest of Blood Magic, really - if life-steals and Blood DDs actually start doing decent damage, Bloodspike can rear its ugly head and haunt PvP once again. Is that any real reason to have an elite skill (or the entire attribute it belongs to) suck total balls?
Moloch Vein
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gift3d
Is this skill completely useless, like the rest of the healing line or does it have some sort of hidden and overlooked merit? The Shadow Monks in FoW paired with the Priest of Menzies seem to execute this skill very well and it can be devastating being healed with multiple Word of Healings. (At healing prayers 16, this skill will heal 138 health in one go if the target is below 50% health. If you get healed by more than 3-5 of these you will live.) So far to me it seems this skill only truly shines when you're below 50% health. The question is; how do you remain perpetually beneath 50% health, not die, and utilize this as anything more than purely defensive? |
I guess this means I'll show you exactly, in no uncertain terms, why the above attempt at sarcasm is so silly.
At 12 Healing Prayers:
Word of Healing heals 105hp if you're ^50% health. An additional 83hp if you're v50% health.
At 12 Blood Magic:
Ravenous Gaze heals 27hp if you're ^50% health. An additional 75hp if you're v50% health (WHEN YOU HAVE STOLEN THE FIRST 27 HP).
This does not count Divine Favor. It only shows the difference when brought on a necromancer.
Ravenous Gaze HP gain per E:
^50%: 2.7hp
v50%: 10.2hp
Word Of Healing HP gain per E:
^50%: 21hp
v50%: 37.6hp
Ravenous Gaze HP gain per second (1c 5r):
^50%: 4.5hp/second (yes, this is worse than Life Siphon)
v50%: 17hp/second
Word Of Healing HP gain per second (3/4c 3r):
^50%: 28hp/second
v50%: 50.1hp/second
To this we add:
WoH can direct the HP flow to any ally. RG can only heal the caster.
In no case we study is the HP gain from Ravenous Gaze even close to HALF of WoH. This means that even if we count in the differential HP between you and the enemy team WoH is still better.
I think I can safely rest my case... as if it was ever needed.
Sir Pandra Pierva
that is a well though out argument for caseless case,
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakken Breathes Fire
Blood needs an overhaul. Just not as a direct-damage line.
edit: though it could be damage with support provided said damage was non-stackable in some way, such as degen or hexes - moar Life Siphon, moar Order of Pain and less Shadow Strike kthx
... I like blood magic
I just hate bloodspike
MasterSasori
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakken Breathes Fire
The mandragors in Nightfall paired with Shelboh seem to execute this skill very well and it can be devastating being hit with multiple Ravenous Gazes. (At blood magic 16, this skill will steal 120 health in one go if the caster is beneath 50% health. If you get hit by more than 3-5 of these it's good bye.)
1. Not only is the skill mediocre at best, its in a unfavorable att line
2. We aren't Mandragors
3. Good luck finding 3-5 people using this in PvP
2. We aren't Mandragors
3. Good luck finding 3-5 people using this in PvP
Drakken Breathes Fire
I like how thread necromancers find this thread, and let the blood magic overhaul thread rot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Blood needs an overhaul. Just not as a direct-damage line.
Quote: Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
edit: though it could be damage with support provided said damage was non-stackable in some way, such as degen or hexes - moar Life Siphon, moar Order of Pain and less Shadow Strike kthx
... I like blood magic I just hate bloodspike
Blood as a whole needs a complete redesign. Even if that is just changing the description in game to describe what it actually does.
(Energy//Health management and support.)
... I like blood magic
I just hate bloodspike
Blood as a whole needs a complete redesign. Even if that is just changing the description in game to describe what it actually does.(Energy//Health management and support.)
Splitisoda
I don't think its utterly useless, at 14 BM you can score about 114 lifestealing in one spell. Sure, WoH outheals and can heal other people, but if your near dieing, and was attempting to kill an enemy monk. Lifesteal + low hp monk = dead nub.
Carinae
IMHO, Change lifesteals so that they deal Shadow Damage once you are at full health. This makes the Blood line Prot-able vs Blood Spike and that opens the door for lifesteals to get buffed hard.
80 point Vamp Gaze, 120 point conditionless Ravenous Gaze.
80 point Vamp Gaze, 120 point conditionless Ravenous Gaze.
Paddatoochie
Then people would inflict bleeding on themselves, with other blood skills. And then you have 8 people dealing 120.
Div
They'd have to completely rework the skill if they want it to be of any use. Just adding lifesteal will just make it an abused skill (or make those angorodons too strong)
Carinae
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddatoochie
Then people would inflict bleeding on themselves, with other blood skills. And then you have 8 people dealing 120.
They'd have to sac down by 120 pts to get the full lifesteal, otherwise it would deal Shadow Damage. It would lifesteal upto your current health and deal the rest as Shadow.
If you saw someone saccing down in PvP ... um...counterspike that person. Problem solved.
If you saw someone saccing down in PvP ... um...counterspike that person. Problem solved.
Jam Jar
The skill's an eh...
It's hard for all the less than 50% to make it.
It's hard for all the less than 50% to make it.
Super Igor
Sure its useless, dual conditional skill... duh.
~Super Igor
~
~Super Igor
snaek
how bout that it can only steal as much health as u can gain
(for all bloodmagic)
for example:
if ur at 530/530hp
u will steal 0hp
but if ur at 480/530hp
u will steal 50hp
and for ravenous...
i got 2 ideas
1:
remove teh <50 condition
reduce it to 90hp steal
if this skill takes ur hp to <75%hp, disable all skills for 5s
2:
remove teh <50 condition
reduce it to 50hp steal
causes bleeding + deepwound for 15s to target and urself
15en, 15recharge
(shouldnt necros be easily able to cause bleeding and deepwound lore-wise?)
rite now, they cant really do either (plague sending doesnt count)
(yes, theres rip enchant...thats it)
or change the condition to:
must target a hexed foe
or fails if targets an enchanted foe
(necros have quite a few enchant removal options, so it shouldnt be too much of a prob)
and how bout change all lifesteal skills to half-ranged spells?
this makes spikes far more telegraphed
and more easily kited
and also synergises w vampiric spirit and the touch skills
(for all bloodmagic)
for example:
if ur at 530/530hp
u will steal 0hp
but if ur at 480/530hp
u will steal 50hp
and for ravenous...
i got 2 ideas
1:
remove teh <50 condition
reduce it to 90hp steal
if this skill takes ur hp to <75%hp, disable all skills for 5s
2:
remove teh <50 condition
reduce it to 50hp steal
causes bleeding + deepwound for 15s to target and urself
15en, 15recharge
(shouldnt necros be easily able to cause bleeding and deepwound lore-wise?)
rite now, they cant really do either (plague sending doesnt count)
(yes, theres rip enchant...thats it)
or change the condition to:
must target a hexed foe
or fails if targets an enchanted foe
(necros have quite a few enchant removal options, so it shouldnt be too much of a prob)
and how bout change all lifesteal skills to half-ranged spells?
this makes spikes far more telegraphed
and more easily kited
and also synergises w vampiric spirit and the touch skills
Carinae
Quote:
Originally Posted by snaek
how bout that it can only steal as much health as u can gain
(for all bloodmagic)
for example:
if ur at 530/530hp
u will steal 0hp No. That would make Blood useless, except for a self-heal. It needs to deal damage or a lifesteal.
(for all bloodmagic)
for example:
if ur at 530/530hp
u will steal 0hp No. That would make Blood useless, except for a self-heal. It needs to deal damage or a lifesteal.
snaek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood
No. That would make Blood useless, except for a self-heal. It needs to deal damage or a lifesteal.
teh blood magic line has bout as many shadow dmg spells as it does lifesteal spells
i was refering to strictly teh lifesteal spells
e.g.
u cast dark pact, deal 50shadow dmg, lose 53hp (10% of 530hp)
u cast vamp gaze, target loses 53hp, u gain 53hp
this as an attempt to stop abusable blood spike
as they would have to either sac themselves (making them vulerable to spike themselves)
or use shadow dmg spells in combination w/ lifesteal (which is protable)
i was refering to strictly teh lifesteal spells
e.g.
u cast dark pact, deal 50shadow dmg, lose 53hp (10% of 530hp)
u cast vamp gaze, target loses 53hp, u gain 53hp
this as an attempt to stop abusable blood spike
as they would have to either sac themselves (making them vulerable to spike themselves)
or use shadow dmg spells in combination w/ lifesteal (which is protable)
jayce
Quote:
Originally Posted by snaek
teh blood magic line has bout as many shadow dmg spells as it does lifesteal spells
i was refering to strictly teh lifesteal spells
e.g.
u cast dark pact, deal 50shadow dmg, lose 53hp (10% of 530hp)
u cast vamp gaze, target loses 53hp, u gain 53hp
this as an attempt to stop abusable blood spike
as they would have to either sac themselves (making them vulerable to spike themselves)
or use shadow dmg spells in combination w/ lifesteal (which is protable) i had a very similar idea about life stealing mechanic in general, only that you would steal the health up to 80% (or 100%) of your maximum health and any remaining damage dealt would be shadow damage. but since i never worked on the actual numbers yet, i just left it on the back burner.
edit: something to do with infuse health.
Jayce Of Underworld
i was refering to strictly teh lifesteal spells
e.g.
u cast dark pact, deal 50shadow dmg, lose 53hp (10% of 530hp)
u cast vamp gaze, target loses 53hp, u gain 53hp
this as an attempt to stop abusable blood spike
as they would have to either sac themselves (making them vulerable to spike themselves)
or use shadow dmg spells in combination w/ lifesteal (which is protable) i had a very similar idea about life stealing mechanic in general, only that you would steal the health up to 80% (or 100%) of your maximum health and any remaining damage dealt would be shadow damage. but since i never worked on the actual numbers yet, i just left it on the back burner.
edit: something to do with infuse health.
Jayce Of Underworld
freaky naughty
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gift3d
Word of Healing; utterly useless?
Is this skill completely useless, like the rest of the healing line or does it have some sort of hidden and overlooked merit? The Shadow Monks in FoW paired with the Priest of Menzies seem to execute this skill very well and it can be devastating being healed with multiple Word of Healings. (At healing prayers 16, this skill will heal 138 health in one go if the target is below 50% health. If you get healed by more than 3-5 of these you will live.)
So far to me it seems this skill only truly shines when you're below 50% health.
The question is; how do you remain perpetually beneath 50% health, not die, and utilize this as anything more than purely defensive? That's because being under 50% health means you would need to be healed and what better spell to heal someone under 50% health than with a spell made to heal things under 50% health? Needing that much health to use an offensive skill is pretty damn stupid, because if you stay at under 50% for too long I guarantee you you're dead.
Is this skill completely useless, like the rest of the healing line or does it have some sort of hidden and overlooked merit? The Shadow Monks in FoW paired with the Priest of Menzies seem to execute this skill very well and it can be devastating being healed with multiple Word of Healings. (At healing prayers 16, this skill will heal 138 health in one go if the target is below 50% health. If you get healed by more than 3-5 of these you will live.)
So far to me it seems this skill only truly shines when you're below 50% health.
The question is; how do you remain perpetually beneath 50% health, not die, and utilize this as anything more than purely defensive? That's because being under 50% health means you would need to be healed and what better spell to heal someone under 50% health than with a spell made to heal things under 50% health? Needing that much health to use an offensive skill is pretty damn stupid, because if you stay at under 50% for too long I guarantee you you're dead.
snaek
back on topic...
there r numerous ways to stay <50
(when no monk on ur team)
shroud of distress+dark escape
weapon of warding+wielders boon
reversal of dmg+judges intervention
distortion+ethereal burden
glyph of immolation+steam
endure pain+signet of stamina
most of these r anti-melee...
mostly cuz melee classes r generally teh ones that can spike u faster than u can cast ravenous
nukers i find do lots of dps...but its not a fast spike which allows ravenous to be used more easily
demonic flesh and a +60hp staff help
if u have 700hp...
stayin within 200-300hp seems like less of a big deal
rather than 500hp
stayin within 100-200hp
there r numerous ways to stay <50
(when no monk on ur team)
shroud of distress+dark escape
weapon of warding+wielders boon
reversal of dmg+judges intervention
distortion+ethereal burden
glyph of immolation+steam
endure pain+signet of stamina
most of these r anti-melee...
mostly cuz melee classes r generally teh ones that can spike u faster than u can cast ravenous
nukers i find do lots of dps...but its not a fast spike which allows ravenous to be used more easily
demonic flesh and a +60hp staff help
if u have 700hp...
stayin within 200-300hp seems like less of a big deal
rather than 500hp
stayin within 100-200hp
Carinae
It might just be simplier to make lifesteals prottable. Simpler, unexploitable and allows for a Blood buff.
Fuzzy Taco
I doubt ANet would ever allow that - ohai 55
Turbobusa
^What?
I like the damage change carinae proposes.
I like the damage change carinae proposes.
Fuzzy Taco
what i meant was, ANet won't make lifesteals prottable - it'll allow 55s to farm even more places, which they don't want. also, that's kind of the whole point of lifesteals - the ability to sneak through prot. although, in their current stage, all lifesteals are doing are being exploited for spikability (nerfed, thanks to the AG change) and being stuck on bad blood bars (the geniuses in RA/AB with echo life transfer, shadow, lifebane, Vamp Gaze, etc.) an overhaul of the blood line would be fantastic - however, i have no ideas whether it's feasible to expect one.