Tactics Worthless?
Crom The Pale
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Originally Posted by The Daemon Warrior
Then why do you see people in high lvl area's asking around for an Obi Tank? (sure that doesnt involve Much Tactics Skills (Wary Stance?) but it is a form of tanking on warriors)
You can still use some tactics skills for farming though. I'd say tactics is not dead, just dying.
Tanking works and its easy to do, its not fast or efficient.
I really find there are two kinds of players in PvE.
1: Wants to get to the end/complete the mission/quest as fast a possible.
2: Wants to enjoy the battles along the way to the end of the story/mission/quest.
Those that choose the faster approach often use the most powerfull or efficient builds(Dslasher/Ursan).
Those that don't care how long it takes to get to the end, just as long as they get there, will use a sure thing(Tanking/Ursan).
You can still use some tactics skills for farming though. I'd say tactics is not dead, just dying.
Tanking works and its easy to do, its not fast or efficient.
I really find there are two kinds of players in PvE.
1: Wants to get to the end/complete the mission/quest as fast a possible.
2: Wants to enjoy the battles along the way to the end of the story/mission/quest.
Those that choose the faster approach often use the most powerfull or efficient builds(Dslasher/Ursan).
Those that don't care how long it takes to get to the end, just as long as they get there, will use a sure thing(Tanking/Ursan).
Terraban
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Originally Posted by The Daemon Warrior
Then why do you see people in high lvl area's asking around for an Obi Tank? (sure that doesnt involve Much Tactics Skills (Wary Stance?) but it is a form of tanking on warriors)
You can still use some tactics skills for farming though. I'd say tactics is not dead, just dying. Why do you see so many Warriors using Mending? It must be gud lawls.
You can still use some tactics skills for farming though. I'd say tactics is not dead, just dying. Why do you see so many Warriors using Mending? It must be gud lawls.
Shaz
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Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
No it's not solved! You can't use dolyak signet because it slows you down to a crawl. The way I see it, the only way to use healing signet in a fight is to use disciplined stance (better than shield stance because +24 armor also protect you from damaging spells).
lol that was a joke. And if you need a blocking stance with heal sig then you're doing it wrong.
Savio
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Originally Posted by Crom The Pale
Those that don't care how long it takes to get to the end, just as long as they get there, will use a sure thing(Tanking/Ursan).
It's not that people who use tanks enjoy taking a long time, it's that they don't know any other method of ensuring success. The tank-nuke-healer stereotype was established before GW existed, and GW allows people to do the same. Why would people switch to an unknown strategy when they have one already which seems to work well?
Of course, tanking doesn't ensure success, especially in the later parts of the campaigns, but without the widespread presence of an effective alternative (Ursan excepted) people don't have a basis with which to judge how effective tanking is.
Of course, tanking doesn't ensure success, especially in the later parts of the campaigns, but without the widespread presence of an effective alternative (Ursan excepted) people don't have a basis with which to judge how effective tanking is.
Winterclaw
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angmar_nite
SY? Winterclaw?
Seef II
Remember the Tactics stance changes and the small uproar over those? Yeah, the PvE warrior lived through them somehow...
blue.rellik
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Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
ogre_jd
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Originally Posted by blue.rellik
They hit quite hard and very fast. And, given their movement speed, you're not likely to get far enough away to have time to activate the signet before they surround you...
blue.rellik
Scarabs? You mean those things in the Jade Desert?
You are just a bad player if you think they hit hard and fast, they attack no faster than any other monster nor harder.
You are just a bad player if you think they hit hard and fast, they attack no faster than any other monster nor harder.
Sir Tidus
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Originally Posted by blue.rellik
blue.rellik
I have monks on my team
Sir Tidus
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Originally Posted by blue.rellik
I have monks on my team
That wasn't the point! This is about Healing Signet!
Shaz
If you have all the aggro on you, you shouldn't use healing signet and your monks should be able to heal you. If you don't have all the aggro then you shouldn't die while using it.
Either way, you should not have Healing Signet or self heal on your bar in PvE in the first place, unless you have to split from your monk for whatever reason then bring it.
Either way, you should not have Healing Signet or self heal on your bar in PvE in the first place, unless you have to split from your monk for whatever reason then bring it.
Sir Tidus
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Originally Posted by Shaz
If you have all the aggro on you, you shouldn't use healing signet and your monks should be able to heal you. If you don't have all the aggro then you shouldn't die while using it.
Either way, you shouldn't have Healing Signet or self heal on your bar in PvE in the first place, unless you have to split from your monk for whatever reason then bring it. Yeah, I don't use Healing Signet. I wish I had Lion's Comfort. Too bad I don't have NF. Though the monk skill patient spirit really isn't bad, only 1/4 second casting time, it doesn't take time away from your attacks at all and still heal a decent amount.
Either way, you shouldn't have Healing Signet or self heal on your bar in PvE in the first place, unless you have to split from your monk for whatever reason then bring it. Yeah, I don't use Healing Signet. I wish I had Lion's Comfort. Too bad I don't have NF. Though the monk skill patient spirit really isn't bad, only 1/4 second casting time, it doesn't take time away from your attacks at all and still heal a decent amount.
blue.rellik
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Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
That wasn't the point! This is about Healing Signet!
Inconsequential because Healing Signet is more than adequate in the situations you would need a self-heal
masta_yoda
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Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
Yeah, I don't use Healing Signet. I wish I had Lion's Comfort. Too bad I don't have NF. Though the monk skill patient spirit really isn't bad, only 1/4 second casting time, it doesn't take time away from your attacks at all and still heal a decent amount.
ull get drained in a matter of seconds
Stormlord Alex
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Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
Though the monk skill patient spirit really isn't bad, only 1/4 second casting time, it doesn't take time away from your attacks at all and still heal a decent amount.
*blinks*
... ok
Healsig is pretty poor, but compared to everything else outside of NF it's really the best option, and in the situations you might want a self-heal (essentially, RA and AB) it isn't that bad.
For every other scenario, you've got monks.
... ok
Healsig is pretty poor, but compared to everything else outside of NF it's really the best option, and in the situations you might want a self-heal (essentially, RA and AB) it isn't that bad.
For every other scenario, you've got monks.
Blastem7
Tactics isn't entirely dead. It is used widely by people farming, but that is about the only use for it.
I'm pretty sure I can own any melee in a few seconds with 16 tactics and gladiator's defense-ripostes.
I'm pretty sure I can own any melee in a few seconds with 16 tactics and gladiator's defense-ripostes.
~ Dan ~
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Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
Because the enemy will keep attacking you when you use HS!
Then i'll step back some more. They'll never catch me 'cause "charge!" is awesome.
Sir Tidus
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Originally Posted by dan-the-noob
Then i'll step back some more. They'll never catch me 'cause "charge!" is awesome.
You are the warrior of the party. If you step back, who's going to take the damage inflicted by the enemy? Use charge? You are saying that you run away to heal and then come back?
Arkantos
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Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
You are the warrior of the party. If you step back, who's going to take the damage inflicted by the enemy? Use charge? You are saying that you run away to heal and then come back?
Enemies will already be targeting your casters due to their lower AL. Generally warriors take the initial aggro and damage, but once the casters start casting enemies tend to attack them also. Falling back to use a heal isn't going to wipe your party unless your party is bad.
Sir Tidus
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Originally Posted by Arkantos
Enemies will already be targeting your casters due to their lower AL. Generally warriors take the initial aggro and damage, but once the casters start casting enemies tend to attack them also. Falling back to use a heal isn't going to wipe your party unless your party is bad.
That's why I want the enemies to attack me instead of the casters. That way, I wouldn't need to self-heal to begin with. But then that's a contradiction right there because I was just talking about getting the enemy off my back so I can heal. Sigh, why does everything have to be so complicated?
Trvth Jvstice
I haven't needed Heal Sig since I started using hero Monks and of course since I began using W/P D Slash build. If this is about PVP, I could understand using a self heal if you're going to split from the team to kill NPCs. Otherwise I don't think Heal Sig is needed in any PVE area I can think of.
Crom The Pale
Heres the real break down on Lions comfort vs Healing signet.
Lets say we have 2 warriors attacking an elemental boss. Both get low on HP and the monks are busy with softer party members.
1: War with healing signet runs from the boss, needing to leave casting range(agro circle) to spend 2 seconds casting Healing signet then runs back to continue attacking. - total time 6 seconds for max 150 self heal.
2: Warrior with Lions Comfort activates it, hits the boss four more times, then heals a second time and continues his assualt. -total time 6 seconds for 200+ self heal and deals out 4 more attacks.
Lets all face the facts, Healing Signet is for farming builds and Charge AB builds and the occasional running build. Lions Comfort is for any other time a warrior absolutely must carry a self heal into battle.
Lets say we have 2 warriors attacking an elemental boss. Both get low on HP and the monks are busy with softer party members.
1: War with healing signet runs from the boss, needing to leave casting range(agro circle) to spend 2 seconds casting Healing signet then runs back to continue attacking. - total time 6 seconds for max 150 self heal.
2: Warrior with Lions Comfort activates it, hits the boss four more times, then heals a second time and continues his assualt. -total time 6 seconds for 200+ self heal and deals out 4 more attacks.
Lets all face the facts, Healing Signet is for farming builds and Charge AB builds and the occasional running build. Lions Comfort is for any other time a warrior absolutely must carry a self heal into battle.
Sir Tidus
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Originally Posted by Crom The Pale
Heres the real break down on Lions comfort vs Healing signet.
Lets say we have 2 warriors attacking an elemental boss. Both get low on HP and the monks are busy with softer party members.
1: War with healing signet runs from the boss, needing to leave casting range(agro circle) to spend 2 seconds casting Healing signet then runs back to continue attacking. - total time 6 seconds for max 150 self heal.
2: Warrior with Lions Comfort activates it, hits the boss four more times, then heals a second time and continues his assualt. -total time 6 seconds for 200+ self heal and deals out 4 more attacks.
Lets all face the facts, Healing Signet is for farming builds and Charge AB builds and the occasional running build. Lions Comfort is for any other time a warrior absolutely must carry a self heal into battle. I wish I had Lion's Comfort! Must get NF (yeah, like that's going to happen anytime soon)!
Lets say we have 2 warriors attacking an elemental boss. Both get low on HP and the monks are busy with softer party members.
1: War with healing signet runs from the boss, needing to leave casting range(agro circle) to spend 2 seconds casting Healing signet then runs back to continue attacking. - total time 6 seconds for max 150 self heal.
2: Warrior with Lions Comfort activates it, hits the boss four more times, then heals a second time and continues his assualt. -total time 6 seconds for 200+ self heal and deals out 4 more attacks.
Lets all face the facts, Healing Signet is for farming builds and Charge AB builds and the occasional running build. Lions Comfort is for any other time a warrior absolutely must carry a self heal into battle. I wish I had Lion's Comfort! Must get NF (yeah, like that's going to happen anytime soon)!
kazjun
I reckon the only advantage of HS is it's on demand. LC needs adren, so you can't use it too well as a runner (well you can, "to the limit" etc). But as for an in battle heal, why is anyone even saying to bring a cover stance nowadays? LC isn't a drain on adren anymore, and it's pretty much uninterruptable. Surely the choice if you want a self heal on the frontlines? Well, if you've got NF that is.
Dr Strangelove
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Originally Posted by kazjun
I reckon the only advantage of HS is it's on demand. LC needs adren, so you can't use it too well as a runner (well you can, "to the limit" etc). But as for an in battle heal, why is anyone even saying to bring a cover stance nowadays? LC isn't a drain on adren anymore, and it's pretty much uninterruptable. Surely the choice if you want a self heal on the frontlines? Well, if you've got NF that is.
Healing sig is a better skill if you actually need to heal. The "on demand" thing turns out to be a really big deal. If you're blinded or hex stacked, LC is unavailable. If you need to chain cast it, it's unavailable. If you need to heal up quickly after a skirmish, LC isn't going to be there. Those situations are the only times I use healing signet with any regularity.
LC shines in those situations where you shouldn't need a self heal in the first place. It offers maximized efficiency when you're happily beating on enemies and don't have to care about kiting or shutdown. When that happens, you should be beating on things and letting your backline worry about red bars. However, this covers just about every situation in PvE, so if you don't have confidence in your monks in PvE, feel free to take it. In a properly functioning team though, you'll probably never use it.
LC shines in those situations where you shouldn't need a self heal in the first place. It offers maximized efficiency when you're happily beating on enemies and don't have to care about kiting or shutdown. When that happens, you should be beating on things and letting your backline worry about red bars. However, this covers just about every situation in PvE, so if you don't have confidence in your monks in PvE, feel free to take it. In a properly functioning team though, you'll probably never use it.
blue.rellik
What Strangelove said covers it, Heal Sig is still better simply because of the on demand part, it's the only part that's better but it certainly means a lot.
However that said, I can see myself taking Lion's Comfort with me when I'm H/Hing simply because Lion's Gives a bunch of adrenaline when used, it works incredibly well with hammers since it lets me break backs or earthshake much more often.
However that said, I can see myself taking Lion's Comfort with me when I'm H/Hing simply because Lion's Gives a bunch of adrenaline when used, it works incredibly well with hammers since it lets me break backs or earthshake much more often.
kazjun
True, but if you're wanting a self heal that is uneffected by blind etc or after battle healing, there are far better skills than putting 8-10 points into tactics. For LC, there's likely going to be a few points in str for flail etc already. And I wouldn't touch it in pvp outside of RA.
The only place I'd use HS nowadays is running and in RA. Anywhere else there are better options.
Edit: Not that I suggest you bring LC to pvp either.
The only place I'd use HS nowadays is running and in RA. Anywhere else there are better options.
Edit: Not that I suggest you bring LC to pvp either.
Dr Strangelove
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Originally Posted by kazjun
The only place I'd use HS nowadays is running and in RA. Anywhere else there are better options.
Edit: Not that I suggest you bring LC to pvp either.
Every other self heal out there uses energy that a warrior doesn't have (healing breeze, every other skill that uses energy really), has the same problems as LC (shadow refuge, victorious sweep), uses too many skill slots (signet of pious light), or has a long cast time (troll unguent). I can't think of any others offhand, but healsig really is pretty decent if you need a self heal.
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Originally Posted by blue.rellik
What Strangelove said covers it, Heal Sig is still better simply because of the on demand part, it's the only part that's better but it certainly means a lot.
However that said, I can see myself taking Lion's Comfort with me when I'm H/Hing simply because Lion's Gives a bunch of adrenaline when used, it works incredibly well with hammers since it lets me break backs or earthshake much more often. I was running a backbreaker bar with FGJ!, Lion's comfort and mokele smash for a while. It was pretty darn fun. However, LC ended up being an adrenaline machine more than a self heal. Sir Tidus
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Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
This is the part where you mention healing breeze so we can all make fun of you.
Every other self heal out there uses energy that a warrior doesn't have (healing breeze, every other skill that uses energy really), has the same problems as LC (shadow refuge, victorious sweep), uses too many skill slots (signet of pious light), or has a long cast time (troll unguent). I can't think of any others offhand, but healsig really is pretty decent if you need a self heal. Say you are at 50 hp and under attack, HS still pretty decent? Oh, I forgot to mention that your spamming monk hero is out of energy. Tyla
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Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
This is the part where you mention healing breeze so we can all make fun of you.
Every other self heal out there uses energy that a warrior doesn't have (healing breeze, every other skill that uses energy really), has the same problems as LC (shadow refuge, victorious sweep), uses too many skill slots (signet of pious light), or has a long cast time (troll unguent). I can't think of any others offhand, but healsig really is pretty decent if you need a self heal. The only problem with Healing Signet, is that if you're under fire, it's not really going to help you much. Out of battle, yeah, but mid-battle it's asking to get outdamaged easily. All I would say is just not use self-heal on a Warrior. Warriors' high inherant armour, and their damage capabilities which can take a skill over a self-heal, and be even stronger in damage output is much nicer. All I can really, truly say is: Leave it to the Monks....or N/Rts....
Dr Strangelove
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Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
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Originally Posted by tyla salanari
The only problem with Healing Signet, is that if you're under fire, it's not really going to help you much.
Out of battle, yeah, but mid-battle it's asking to get outdamaged easily. True, but Lion's comfort isn't enough to keep you up either if you're taking a significant amount of damage, it'll just buy your monks a few more seconds to wake up and fix your boo-boo. Love your monks. Cherish them. Don't give your heroes bad builds. Sir Tidus
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Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
Then you're screwed whether you have a self heal or not. I suggest bringing a better monk build or a N/rt.
Not if you have LC.
blue.rellik
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Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
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Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
Say you are at 50 hp and under attack, HS still pretty decent? Oh, I forgot to mention that your spamming monk hero is out of energy.
Monk heroes is so last century. Pros use Rt/* or N/Rts who don't run out of energy easily.
RhanoctJocosa
To all you guys saying LC > HC for healing/reliability: lol
Tyla
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Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
True, but Lion's comfort isn't enough to keep you up either if you're taking a significant amount of damage, it'll just buy your monks a few more seconds to wake up and fix your boo-boo. Love your monks. Cherish them. Don't give your heroes bad builds.
Nor would HS for that matter.
You're more likely to be out-damaged before you get to the heal.
Draginvry
I've found LC usefull in PvE. I will try to use it right before I get spiked, so that when it finished casting my health bar will immediately go up. It takes a little pressure of the monks and gives me an adren.
I think LC is more usefull in PvE. I'd rather keep aggro and trust my monks, than spec tactics and find a place where I can heal sig in safety. Although I have to admit that I thought LC was crap before they added that adren gain to it, because all it did before was suck your attack power dry, not to mention Rush.
Dr Strangelove
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Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
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Quote: Originally Posted by blue.rellik
Monk heroes is so last century. Pros use Rt/* or N/Rts who don't run out of energy easily. [skill]healer's covenant[/skill]
y halo thar
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Originally Posted by tyla salanari
Nor would HS for that matter.
You're more likely to be out-damaged before you get to the heal. Which is why you really don't need a self heal, especially with stuff like SY! around. |