Tactics Worthless?

blue.rellik

blue.rellik

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Melbourne, Australia

None

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
[skill]healer's covenant[/skill]

y halo thar Prot > Healing

Yichi

Yichi

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Guild Hall, Vent, Guesting, PvE, or the occasional HA match...

Dark Alley [dR]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
Quote: Originally Posted by Sir Tidus Say you are at 50 hp and under attack, HS still pretty decent? Oh, I forgot to mention that your spamming monk hero is out of energy. Then you're screwed whether you have a self heal or not. I suggest bringing a better monk build or a N/rt. Not if you have LC. No, you're still pretty much screwed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue.rellik
Prot > Healing This is correct to a point. hybrid > both.

kazjun

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

HoVa

W/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
This is the part where you mention healing breeze so we can all make fun of you.

Every other self heal out there uses energy that a warrior doesn't have (healing breeze, every other skill that uses energy really), has the same problems as LC (shadow refuge, victorious sweep), uses too many skill slots (signet of pious light), or has a long cast time (troll unguent). I can't think of any others offhand, but healsig really is pretty decent if you need a self heal.



I was running a backbreaker bar with FGJ!, Lion's comfort and mokele smash for a while. It was pretty darn fun. However, LC ended up being an adrenaline machine more than a self heal. Healing breeze? Right. Is that what you're using so you got no energy? Sure some old school kd/AS build would be empty on energy, but otherwise? What are you spending all your energy on? FGJ? 5e. Enraging? Ok. 5e. Enduring harmony? 5e. All that is frontloaded by the way. When you don't need self healing.

Try using natural healing. At 8 wind prayers, it's 99 healing (HS 110) at a 1 sec cast (HS 2 sec) and a 5 sec recharge (HS 4 sec) for 5e (HS 0e). You can use it mid battle, end battle, anywhere. No -4 armour. No need to bring cover stances. No need to run away from the front lines releasing aggro. Works blinded. And even a warrior can afford 5e. Unless you're trying to spam this, where HS would be superior. But if you need to spam healing on yourself, you either don't need it, or it's not going to help. Actually, with a zealous and a IAS, you could probably spam this if you really wanted to.

Not that I'm saying you should pump 8 points into WP just for this, no more than I say you should pump 8 points into tactics just for HS. Healing isn't a warriors job, but if you must carry a self heal, it's not like there isn't alternatives to HS.

But the main point is cost. If you set aside HS (which is close to the first skill every warrior gets) and tactics. If I were to say that you should put 8 attrib points into skill line A just for skill B that heals you for 110 but at a 2 sec cast and -40 armour what would you say? And if there was an alternative skill C which heals nearly as much and needs adren to activate, but was in skill line D that contains a good IAS and speedbuffs?

As I said, healing ain't a warrior's job, but if you must carry one, is it really worth it to invest so many points into a skill line just for the self heal, as opposed to a heal that comes in a line with an IAS and your run buff?

Course if you're running other tactics skills, than sure, it becomes worth it then. Though what you'd be running other than maybe steady stance or some riposte farm build I don't know.

Stormlord Alex

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by kazjun
Try using natural healing. At 8 wind prayers, it's 99 healing (HS 110) at a 1 sec cast (HS 2 sec) and a 5 sec recharge (HS 4 sec) for 5e (HS 0e). You can use it mid battle, end battle, anywhere. No -4 armour. No need to bring cover stances. No need to run away from the front lines releasing aggro. Works blinded. And even a warrior can afford 5e. Unless you're trying to spam this, where HS would be superior. But if you need to spam healing on yourself, you either don't need it, or it's not going to help. Actually, with a zealous and a IAS, you could probably spam this if you really wanted to. I believe NH guys run 10 Wind.
Natural Healing also has the benefit of being able to use Harrier's Haste, which is really gnarly.

Dr Strangelove

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

Ah, you're right, natural healing is fairly nice, I forgot about that one. It's really not a skill you should bring in a full party with monk backup, though. Harrier's/natural shines most in skirmishes, like in AB.

Sir Tidus

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
Ah, you're right, natural healing is fairly nice, Except if you have an enchantment on you.

Stormlord Alex

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
Except if you have an enchantment on you. Not really an issue, tbh.

If you're enchanted, that's because there's a monk saving your ass. If there's a monk saving your ass then you don't need Natural Healing.

Sir Tidus

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
Not really an issue, tbh.

If you're enchanted, that's because there's a monk saving your ass. If there's a monk saving your ass then you don't need Natural Healing. Lol, good point.

Dr Strangelove

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
Except if you have an enchantment on you.
What an excellent point, that almost sounds like something I'd say... *thinks*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
It's really not a skill you should bring in a full party with monk backup, though. Harrier's/natural shines most in skirmishes, like in AB. Ah, found it!

kazjun

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

HoVa

W/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
Ah, you're right, natural healing is fairly nice, I forgot about that one. It's really not a skill you should bring in a full party with monk backup, though. Harrier's/natural shines most in skirmishes, like in AB. Yeah, harrier's is real nice. Bulls is great for KD but if you're not charged for a spike, harrier's let's you chase and pressure nicely.

blue.rellik

blue.rellik

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Melbourne, Australia

None

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yichi
This is correct to a point. hybrid > both. How does that make what I said any less right?

Dr Strangelove

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

Hybrids are better, but heroes are full of suck and fail at prot, so it's really not worth the effort. Healer's covenant guys are strong for the same reason the N/rt bars are strong - any bar you can play with your forehead is good for a hero.

blue.rellik

blue.rellik

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Melbourne, Australia

None

W/

That's where I misunderstood you then, I (for some reason) was advocating Healer's Covenant for general. I missed the part where you were talking about heroes, in that regard you are indeed correct. HC is great with heroes, especially with all those new EotN healing enchantments