eye of the north = discouraging? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

aapo

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

29 Mar 2008 at 19:06 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buster

Well thanks to the people who whined about putting countless hours into GW and not having anything to show for it in GW2 we got HOM. People just need to realize that games are games and eventually all characters along with their achievements go to character heaven.

- Yup, that's what it is. Nothing more, nothing less. If one doesn't care about HoM, he should stop making posts about it and play something he actually likes instead.

Shuuda

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guildless

Me/

29 Mar 2008 at 19:09 - 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

How does the grind added to GW = you being a bad player?

HoM aside, EotN added:

Thinking you need to do that grind, and wasting time with it for lame rewards is what makes you bad.

Quote:

Rep point grind - Easy with books
Vanquish grind - lame title
HM dungeon grind - doing dungeons isn't really grind.
Core Grind - is very small, if you have a brain.
Char carving grind - lame items.
Glacial grind - lame items
Chalices grind - lame items
Bison grind - lame items
Rin Relic grind - lame items
Polymock (lag) grind - just lame in general.

Fay Vert

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/

29 Mar 2008 at 19:13 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Thinking you need to do that grind, and wasting time with it for lame rewards is what makes you bad.

Wanting vanity items = bad player?

That is ANet's design for making everyon continue playing, so by your definition, if you carry on playing as ANet has designed it, you are a bad player? While I agree you don't need it and I agree with your assessment of the grind (and I don't do that grind myself) it has nothing to do with being a good or bad player, thats just insulting.

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

29 Mar 2008 at 19:14 - 44

If all you do is 'grind', it's prob time you moved onto another game.

Fay Vert

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/

29 Mar 2008 at 19:16 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

If all you do is 'grind', it's prob time you moved onto another game.

That is exactly my point. All ANet added in EotN is grind, hence the relevence to OP.

Shuuda

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guildless

Me/

29 Mar 2008 at 19:16 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Wanting vanity items = bad player?

No, thinking you need them does. Even so, you can get many vanity items with little grind. Hardly any grind in this game is forced on you.

Lest121

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2007

Army of Darkness

A/Mo

29 Mar 2008 at 19:17 - 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

GW is billed as a game for casual players. Most casual players, I imagine, have one "main" character that they do everything with. The HoM is therefore well suited for such players. Furthermore, by the available reports, GW2 will be character-centric rather than account-centric, so it will be natural to use the achievements of one main character in GW1 for the character in GW2. You can see it as discouraging completionists, but I see it as encouraging players to get some perspective and a life outside GW. One GWAMMo per player is more than enough.

Maybe that was Anet's Original approach, but that has been dead for years now, Anet added Titles and Grind, even mister Casual will be forced to work to full out his Hall, the HOM is a Money pit........ I have already sank more than 400k into it and i still need 3 Elite armor sets, mister casual will either become hardcore.........or just give up on HOM and just play the game like he always has..................this game isn't for mister Casual anymore, and you people need to stop saying it is.

romeus petrus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

Urgoz Warren

Legion of Doom [LOD] Home of PWNZILLA http://PWNZILLA.guildlaunch.com

29 Mar 2008 at 19:20 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Hardly any grind in this game is forced on you.

Have you tried to join a DoA HM PUG with a level 1 Ursan?

romeus petrus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

Urgoz Warren

Legion of Doom [LOD] Home of PWNZILLA http://PWNZILLA.guildlaunch.com

29 Mar 2008 at 19:21 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

If all you do is 'grind', it's prob time you moved onto another game.

That's exactly why PvE titles don't belong in this game.

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

29 Mar 2008 at 19:22 - 50

Don't use PuG's for DoA. Smart people don't.

Shuuda

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guildless

Me/

29 Mar 2008 at 19:24 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeus petrus

Have you tried to join a DoA HM PUG with a level 1 Ursan?

DoA is not forced, not that I'd ever waste my time in such a design failure.

The reason A-net add this grind is because:

- They cannot add anything challenging, or else that majority would whine about it being too hard.

- They have to add something that gives the illusion that vanity items make you good, to keep the idiotic majority happy.

Grind simply fits the bill of being long, easy and ego boosting for PvErs.

bigtime102

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2007

29 Mar 2008 at 19:56 - 52

I got EOTN when the double reputation weekend was on, nice expansion, very pretty but havent played it since? why? cant stand the thought of grinding all that crap, not to mention you get nothing for playing it. Every place requires a h/h team making the loot worthless. I liked the fact I could solo prophecies where possible and maximize my profits. Since I dont care for quest rewards or titles I havent found any reason to play EOTN for a few hours to just get a few hundred gold.

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

29 Mar 2008 at 20:14 - 53

Getting trophies would not be so much grindy if they added a way to trade faster and better.

The thing is that when a player finishes a title, that player has grinded it. But if that player favors more than one character, dang. You have to make all it again, even when you have done it already.

dunky_g

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

[SNOW]

29 Mar 2008 at 20:21 - 54

you dont have to grind, I dont, I just do a HM hero handbook when i get bored of doing other things.. if you dont like grinding just mix stuff up a bit.. like work on different titles at the same time and work between them.

Dallcingi

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2006

USA

The Black Parades [死人死]

Mo/

29 Mar 2008 at 20:56 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by elsquid

I suddenly feel like I shouldn't be playing as the rest of them, Like i should be sticking with my 1 character and getting all the awards for the sake of Guild Wars 2.

Is that just crazy? should I snap out of it and just play my other characters, or am i right, that theirs little motivation to play more the one?

I agree im in the same boat... so i just play titles that are account based for now =p (kurzick/ pvp etc)

Pandora's box

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Netherlands

Mo/W

29 Mar 2008 at 21:23 - 56

(grind...)

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeus petrus

That's exactly why PvE titles don't belong in this game.

Well, no. The PvE titles are a very good substitude for the lack of experience advancement beyond level 20. There is no need to grind for them (just as you don't need to grind to get to level 20) but those who have a grinding playstyle can chose to do so. And in the end its again a matter of choices since you can only use 3 title related PvE only skills at a time. Freedom of choice, take it or leave it.

romeus petrus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

Urgoz Warren

Legion of Doom [LOD] Home of PWNZILLA http://PWNZILLA.guildlaunch.com

29 Mar 2008 at 22:10 - 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

(grind...)

Well, no. The PvE titles are a very good substitude for the lack of experience advancement beyond level 20. There is no need to grind for them (just as you don't need to grind to get to level 20) but those who have a grinding playstyle can chose to do so. And in the end its again a matter of choices since you can only use 3 title related PvE only skills at a time. Freedom of choice, take it or leave it.

Well it does seem like a valid argument but here's my take on it:

It is true nobody forces anyone to grind for titles. I know a lot of very experienced PvE players who simply refuse to grind. At the same time, I know of a lot more players who are spending endless hours every day doing nothing but grinding. Their reason behind that is that maxed titles will one day give them some sort of an advantage in GW2. What this has done is effectively remove a large number of experienced players from doing cooperative activities in the game, and limit their activities to endless, mindless grinding for titles.

And that's where GWEN failed. It gave us a large number of new titles that require nothing but grinding. And FYI, doing the Hero's Handbook XX times per char to get max titles is still considered grinding.

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

29 Mar 2008 at 22:22 - 58

Quote:

Originally Posted by elsquid

should I snap out of it and just play my other characters?

Yes. It's a game - you should do what is more fun for you.

The benefits we'll be getting in GW2 from the HoM are unknown, and likely to be purely cosmetic or, at most, trivial.

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

29 Mar 2008 at 22:57 - 59

Yet I liked how the game lacked 'regrets' before so many character-based stuff.

Choose skills? No regrets. You can change them anytime later. And you can buy all skills.
Increase attributes? No regrets. You can change them anytime later.
Fail a quest? No regrets. You can try them again anytime later.
Delete a PvP character? No regrets. PvP titles are account wide.

More than Skill>Time I liked the lack of regrets in GW.

Now there are more regrets... pick PvP rewards... delete armor to fit more... spend time with one character instead another...

Ah... It's better when there's nothing to regret.

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

29 Mar 2008 at 22:58 - 60

I just feel sorry for the guys that made GWEN and their lack of imagination and creativity.
They just slapped "here, kill monsters and your skills will get better".
Not challenging and interesting at all. It's boring.
I don't get it, since AN seemed to know what's fun. Why the hell did they decide to switch to retarded "grind if you want rewards" when they already had the idea.
How can someone sane say that rewarding for grind is better than rewarding for doing hard quests? Well, harder-than-average, at least.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Titan_Quests
And you get the idea.
I had much fun doing this quests (especially with 3 heroes only), but then again- it's part of Prophecies, the least broken GW chapter.

Skyy High

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2006

R/

30 Mar 2008 at 01:16 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Wanting vanity items = bad player?

If you're making yourself miserable over optional vanity stuff...well, maybe that doesn't make you a bad player, but it does mean you have your priorities way out of whack.

Zinger314

Debbie Downer

Join Date: May 2006

N/Me

30 Mar 2008 at 01:39 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

If you're making yourself miserable over optional vanity stuff...well, maybe that doesn't make you a bad player, but it does mean you have your priorities way out of whack.

Then explain what the reward for the Guild Wars endgame is.

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

30 Mar 2008 at 01:43 - 63

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Then explain what the reward for the Guild Wars endgame is.

The enjoyment of playing the game. Alternatively, if you still consider PvP the logical progression, the experience of competitive play.

Esan

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2007

Wars

30 Mar 2008 at 02:18 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Then explain what the reward for the Guild Wars endgame is.

The ability to finish everything gameplay-related. After I've done all missions and dungeons in normal and hard mode, vanquished all areas, completed all elite areas, and earned sufficient ranks in PvP title tracks for HoM monuments, I've beaten the game. There is nothing more to do to improve my character/account's achievements.

The remaining things to do (i.e., 90% of title grinding) are playing dress up and filling purple bars for the hell of it.

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

30 Mar 2008 at 02:19 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Then explain what the reward for the Guild Wars endgame is.

Buying a Battlestation...oh wait wrong game :X

yum

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

W/E

30 Mar 2008 at 02:22 - 66

The reward for GW2 is most likely trivial.

If they want to attract new players to GW2 and those who don't have EoTN, do you think they will make the reward so good that it discourages new players?

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

30 Mar 2008 at 02:25 - 67

Full HoM reward -

This person wasted xxx amount of hours for nothing (10)

-Loki-

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2005

30 Mar 2008 at 02:29 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

The enjoyment of playing the game.

Don't be stupid. No one plays games for enjoyment any more. They only play them for in game rewards to make them feel superior.

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

30 Mar 2008 at 02:33 - 69

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Loki-

Don't be stupid. No one plays games for enjoyment any more. They only play them for in game rewards to make them feel superior.

I enjoy headshots, and teabagging.

StormDragonZ

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2008

New York

W/R

30 Mar 2008 at 02:48 - 70

Prophecies was a casual game. Could go through without worrying about anything that made me force myself to work faster through a quest or mission.

Factions changed that. Missions with time limits in some of them, let alone Masters rank times, the ability to be casual died for me.

Nightfall came back and had a little casual aspect. However, once again, the aspect of Masters rank seemed to be the worst part. Jennur's Horde has no casual aspect at all.

Eye of the North, to me, is much harder than the others, but I remembered that most, if not all expansion packs are harder than the original. Still, some places feel like they were only designed for hardcore player's amusement.

In simple terms: EotN feels like it only had in mind for the non-casual gamer.

Operative 14

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

Arizona, USA

[OOP] Order of the Phoenix I

30 Mar 2008 at 02:50 - 71

I completely agree with the OP.

At the time I started playing EotN, I had four characters I would consider my main characters. Granted, there was one among them that has done much more than the others, but still.

I found the HoM discouraging because I have six main characters now, and there is no way I'm going to be able to max out six characters with titles, armors, and other accoutrements. So what to do? Either pick one character and ignore the rest, or ignore HoM and hope the rewards in GW2 aren't that great. I chose the latter, and I'm hoping I don't regret it in a few years time.

Jake_Steel

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2007

Portland, OR

The Older Gamers (TOG)

N/Me

30 Mar 2008 at 03:34 - 72

Wow, no one does anything but bitch, moan whine and complain around here anymore... It's like this forums is an old folks home or something.

Esan

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2007

Wars

30 Mar 2008 at 03:42 - 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake_Steel

Wow, no one does anything but bitch, moan whine and complain around here anymore... It's like this forums is an old folks home or something.

The opposite is true. The median age here is in the teens. And only people who are young enough to take video games seriously bother to bitch and moan on game forums.

cebalrai

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2007

Mature Gaming Association

Me/E

30 Mar 2008 at 04:00 - 74

OH JOY!!!

Another b1tch/whine/moan thread about EotN. We already have sixteen of these.

Shame on you for making multiple threads with the same topic...

Shame on (most of) the rest of you for focusing on the negative and being really b1tchy, sour people. Let's all talk about ways we're not having fun! Wow... what kind of people are you?

I firmly blame the moderators of this site for the crappy content of this thread though. You guys let this crap go on and on. It's as if it's okay to duplicate threads as long as ten days has passed since the last one generated interest. Seriously... you guys are asleep at the wheel. Have a staff meeting or something and figure out which way is up!

Moderators, please close this thread. Please do your jobs and keep this forum worth at least.... something...

Lest121

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2007

Army of Darkness

A/Mo

30 Mar 2008 at 04:33 - 75

Quote:

Originally Posted by cebalrai

OH JOY!!!

Another b1tch/whine/moan thread about EotN. We already have sixteen of these.

Shame on you for making multiple threads with the same topic...

Shame on (most of) the rest of you for focusing on the negative and being really b1tchy, sour people. Let's all talk about ways we're not having fun! Wow... what kind of people are you?

I firmly blame the moderators of this site for the crappy content of this thread though. You guys let this crap go on and on. It's as if it's okay to duplicate threads as long as ten days has passed since the last one generated interest. Seriously... you guys are asleep at the wheel. Have a staff meeting or something and figure out which way is up!

Moderators, please close this thread. Please do your jobs and keep this forum worth at least.... something...

Everyone has an opinion if you don't like Ignore it, sheeeesh not everyone likes Eye the North.

Operative 14

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

Arizona, USA

[OOP] Order of the Phoenix I

30 Mar 2008 at 06:21 - 76

I would suggest, then, that either of you go start a thread about the good things you like in the game so we may contribute to that as well.

Yawgmoth

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

30 Mar 2008 at 07:01 - 77

Totally 100% agree with OP.
Discouraging? I'd rather call it Epic Fail (tm).

2 simple and obvious reasons for it's fail:

1> HoM (and some titles) should be simply account-based. For plenty of obvious reasons. And with no reasons against it.
Fairness and freedom of playstyles. Ability to contribute to your accumulated achievements center with any of your characters. No playtime wasted. No stupid rewarding of repeating same things over and over, which turns into grind. No disadvantages for players unable to complete all monuments because of having an old character created before Factions release. No forcing playstyles, no making players abandon their characters to play just one. No disadvantaging anyone for doing so...
GW really needs an account-based achievement aggregation engine, and HoM was hyped and expected to be such a thing, but failed miserably. It could have been so amazingly good, so much potential wasted...

2> Complete information about what counts and what doesn't should be made public. GW2 rewards don't matter at the moment, but GW1 is basically done now, they should have decided about what should matter when designing this thing. But if they really know nothing, as they claim, it just means we got a half-assed product, an unfinished pile of ...

Shuuda

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guildless

Me/

30 Mar 2008 at 07:27 - 78

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Then explain what the reward for the Guild Wars endgame is.

PvP, and if your one of them people that don't like it, then GW was never the right game for you.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

30 Mar 2008 at 07:33 - 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Loki-

Don't be stupid. No one plays games for enjoyment any more. They only play them for in game rewards to make them feel superior.

And because of this - GWEN fails.
It's easily the least enjoyable chapter in the franchise. I guess they ran out of time to implement a bit of fun.
Luckily the other chapters - even after playing trough them a bunch of time - still have that special something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

PvP, and if your one of them people that don't like it, then GW was never the right game for you.

Actually - I'd say that's wrong.
Looking at how the game transformed itself - it's clear that PvP WAS considered end-game - but later on it became the alternative rather then the natural progression.

enter_the_zone

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2007

R/

30 Mar 2008 at 07:40 - 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormDragonZ

Prophecies was a casual game. Could go through without worrying about anything that made me force myself to work faster through a quest or mission.

Factions changed that. Missions with time limits in some of them, let alone Masters rank times, the ability to be casual died for me.

Nightfall came back and had a little casual aspect. However, once again, the aspect of Masters rank seemed to be the worst part. Jennur's Horde has no casual aspect at all.

Eye of the North, to me, is much harder than the others, but I remembered that most, if not all expansion packs are harder than the original. Still, some places feel like they were only designed for hardcore player's amusement.

In simple terms: EotN feels like it only had in mind for the non-casual gamer.

Wow, that was totally opposite for me. The fact that Factions missions were able to be completed in less the half an hour was a real bonus to me as a casual player (at that point). It was just a pity the quests to get anywhere were such a slog. Also, most casuals don't care about masters rewards. If you "master" something, you aren't being casual about it.

To be fair, Eye of the North was intended as an elite area for people who had finished all the campaigns and had no challenges left. It wasn't meant to be easy. I think it fit that brief quite well. The storyline is easy enough and doesn't incorporate the most difficult dungeons, keeping most casual players happy. The harder dungeons are definitely not designed for casual gamers, those are challenges for the non-casuals.