Yeah, yeah -- it's use is limited outside of degenerate builds like Bloodspike in GvG and HA.
But the 2 uses here -- [skill]order of pain[/skill][skill]dark fury[/skill]
They, to me give quite a positive future in Blood Magic. I'm not much of a Necro guy, but I think Blood Magic has a place in the support line of things.
Vampiric Gaze -- Hex Spell -- For X seconds, whenever target foe takes physical damage, the player causing that damage also steals Y life. (Much like Barbs)
Please note I'm just thinking up random ideas...
Discuss changes for Blood Magic to become a more viable skill line, imo.
Blood Magic -- A change possible?
Tyla
the kurzick eater
they need to add more party support in (such as party life steals and such) OoP is a good start, they should expand on whole party effects for blood magic line.
just my two cents.
just my two cents.
Tyla
The only problem is, though -- you've also got Bloodspike in the way.
I think a viable change before any revamping done to Blood Magic would be making the enemy who's had lifestealing done to them immune to lifesteal depending on the power of the skill and scaling with Blood Magic.
I think a viable change before any revamping done to Blood Magic would be making the enemy who's had lifestealing done to them immune to lifesteal depending on the power of the skill and scaling with Blood Magic.
xDusT II
Less redundant Life Stealing DD's, more work on Wells, Siphons, Orders and Blood Bond type skills.
Tyla
Titles don't really mean much anymore to be honest...
And Blood Magic is quite pathetic aside from the 2 skills I mentioned, and that ugly degenerate spike, Bloodspike.
I'm not sure whether it's fixable or not, but it's worth having a discussion over regardless.
@Dust -- That would mostly require skill names being changed...unless it's sorta like the example in the OP.
And Blood Magic is quite pathetic aside from the 2 skills I mentioned, and that ugly degenerate spike, Bloodspike.
I'm not sure whether it's fixable or not, but it's worth having a discussion over regardless.
@Dust -- That would mostly require skill names being changed...unless it's sorta like the example in the OP.
Cathode_Reborn
They're improving Blood abit, but doing it verrrrrryyy slowly......it could be many months till they make it viable, since GW2 has been gettin in the way of updates.
Nothin's gonna get done posting here though. If you really wanna be heard, get some ideas in the Glad section here, or Izzy's skillfeedback page - Anet actually took some ideas suggested from users in a sorta recent update (most noticable, the change to Strip Enchantment).
Besides Spoil victor and orders, Blood magic is pretty junky. On a rare occasion though, I'll run some SV build just because it counters most stuff.
Nothin's gonna get done posting here though. If you really wanna be heard, get some ideas in the Glad section here, or Izzy's skillfeedback page - Anet actually took some ideas suggested from users in a sorta recent update (most noticable, the change to Strip Enchantment).
Besides Spoil victor and orders, Blood magic is pretty junky. On a rare occasion though, I'll run some SV build just because it counters most stuff.
Tyla
Agreed on Glads section. But checking on both forums would be good.
Div
blood bond- 10/.75/5. for 1..8 seconds +1..8 regen, -4 degen. heal for 10..80 at end.
helps a bit against heavy degen teams. acts as support skill against spikes with heavy ench removal
blood of the aggressor- 15/1/10. 10% sac. if target foe is attacking, target foe takes 5..50 damage and your party is healed for 5..50.
midline partyheal that doesn't involve e/mo hp or rits.
mark of subversion: 20 recharge, 4 duration.
makes necros better at shutdown.
ravenous gaze: 5/1/5. target foe takes 40..60 damage. all party members within earshot are healed for 30..45 health.
divine healing/heaven's delight with spike assistance and shorter recharge on a necro
A lot of what midline characters do is provide:
a) spike assistance (paragons, eles, mesmers)
b) shutdown (mesmers, rangers)
c) pressure (paragons, rangers)
d) offensive party support- blinds, blurs (eles)
e) defensive party support- prots, heals (HP eles, paragons)
As it is now, most necro templates suck at those things. Making necros better shutdown and defensive party support types is a good way to go, and these changes reflect that.
helps a bit against heavy degen teams. acts as support skill against spikes with heavy ench removal
blood of the aggressor- 15/1/10. 10% sac. if target foe is attacking, target foe takes 5..50 damage and your party is healed for 5..50.
midline partyheal that doesn't involve e/mo hp or rits.
mark of subversion: 20 recharge, 4 duration.
makes necros better at shutdown.
ravenous gaze: 5/1/5. target foe takes 40..60 damage. all party members within earshot are healed for 30..45 health.
divine healing/heaven's delight with spike assistance and shorter recharge on a necro
A lot of what midline characters do is provide:
a) spike assistance (paragons, eles, mesmers)
b) shutdown (mesmers, rangers)
c) pressure (paragons, rangers)
d) offensive party support- blinds, blurs (eles)
e) defensive party support- prots, heals (HP eles, paragons)
As it is now, most necro templates suck at those things. Making necros better shutdown and defensive party support types is a good way to go, and these changes reflect that.
Drakken Breathes Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by the kurzick eater
they need to add more party support in (such as party life steals and such) OoP is a good start, they should expand on whole party effects for blood magic line.
just my two cents. Which.. goes against the in game description of Blood Magic entirely.
Direct Damage and Life Stealing.
Until this description is changed, I will remain disappointed with Blood Magic.
There is also already a Blood Magic thread existing here.
just my two cents. Which.. goes against the in game description of Blood Magic entirely.
Direct Damage and Life Stealing.
Until this description is changed, I will remain disappointed with Blood Magic.
There is also already a Blood Magic thread existing here.
masta_yoda
make some new vampiric life steal enchant skill like conjures
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakken Breathes Fire
Direct Damage and Life Stealing.
Until this description is changed, I will remain disappointed with Blood Magic.
And for the record, my manual(s) describes Eles as the best damage-dealers in the game - which, as we all know, is also bullshit. Never believe what A-Net says.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:|
Also: Touch of Agony/Wallow's Bite and Vampiric Touch/Bite Would changing them into enchantments that read like: The next time target ally/party member attacks, they do X and this ends. be a problem? For example, a revamped Vampiric Touch might read: For 5 seconds, the next time target party member attacks [physical attack? melee attack?], that party member steals X..Y health if that attack hits. This enchantment ends after they attack. Also totally awesome. Kill touchers and make Blood guys better at buffing melee? Tyla
Yeah but it does seem quite imba ima.
Maybe Melee attack on VTouch, though, and make it 10 energy 10 recharge.
Drakken Breathes Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
I think you ought to stop being so... anal, and accept that Blood can never be a viable damage line for the good of the game.
For the good of the game or for the good of every one QQing about bloodspike?
There are plenty of ways to have offensive skills in blood magic without it being spammable//spike worthy. A lot of good examples of this were already stated in said previous thread. (And potential fixes for bloodspike whereby making it protable.) Thanks for reading, though. Blood magic already has plenty of support skills, which there are nothing wrong with. I'm not completely against blood magic having more utility, I just think it needs to be a bit more.. well rounded. Death, Soul Reaping, and Curses all have good utility, both for offense and defense. Of course, I might just be still anal. Tyla
All Blood Magic has is Order of Pain and Dark Fury. Maybe SV, but that's even more of a "This'll be useful here" skill. It's just not worth taking OoP and DF because the rest of the Blood Magic line is so bad.
Besides, balancing around this imo, should disable all direct lifesteal coming from the Necro or whatever profession is using it scaling with Blood Magic. It should fix Bloodspike, and open up Blood Magic to being more...viable.
Drakken Breathes Fire
Viable is the safety word for neutered carcass.
Disabling direct life steal is NOT the answer, mitigating it, is. There is no reason, making *direct* life stealing skills from the blood line deal shadow damage if your health is over 50-90% wont solve the problem. Shadow Damage is protable. Bloodspike would be solved. Necros have their direct damage, but it's not overpowered. example; Protective Bond v. new blood spike; Target has 600 hp, lets say the Necromancer has.. lvl 18 blood magic form ATB. Fires off Shadow//Lifebane Strike as the introduction to your typical bloodspike. 30 shadow damage + 55 life steal (or 30 shadow damage if Necro is above 50-90% health.) second one, same deal. 120-170 damage tops. Again, provided THEY are above 50% health too, as is already required by Shadow//Lifebane Strike. Blood Spike damage is now HALVED. Now, if you add, spirit bond into the mix, it's negated entirely. (Unless I'm missing something.) Tyla
Spirit Bond only disallows it if the 60 was delivered in 1 package.
And this is to fix Blood Magic and stop Bloodspike in the process. Making it more of a support line should get it in balanced teams more, as a buffer to damage and supporting your own people. Like Divine's suggestion.
Kale Ironfist
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyla salanari
Yeah but it does seem quite imba ima.
Maybe Melee attack on VTouch, though, and make it 10 energy 10 recharge. Actually, the numbers I had envisioned (not that it has any bearing on the skill mechanic) were 10% sacrifice, 1 energy, 1 activation, 3 recharge OR 5 energy, 1 activation, 5 recharge and a range of 10..40. The health stolen is kept low because the vamps can stack. The recharge is low-ish because it only lasts for one attack, whether or not it hits (and therefore whether or not the life steal is triggered). Like Ghostly Weapon. Quru
[skill]Blood is Power[/skill]
Tyla
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quru
[skill]Blood is Power[/skill]
That's a waste of an elite slot. If your Monks need BiP, or even BR, especially in PvE, they're bad.
The Meth
How about this for a skill idea?
Originally Posted by holymasamune
5 energy 1 cast 15 recharge Ally with lowest health in earshot steals 25..100 health from the foe with the greatest health in earshot. It has absolutely no chance at all of being able to be used in a spike, since it can only steal from the largest health target. It actually makes the life gaining part of life stealing USEFULL, since the healing goes to the one in the party that needs it. It would work good at simultaneously pressuring the opponents while relieving pressure on your own team. Quote: helps a bit against heavy degen teams. acts as support skill against spikes with heavy ench removal blood of the aggressor- 15/1/10. 10% sac. if target foe is attacking, target foe takes 5..50 damage and your party is healed for 5..50. midline partyheal that doesn't involve e/mo hp or rits. mark of subversion: 20 recharge, 4 duration. makes necros better at shutdown. ravenous gaze: 5/1/5. target foe takes 40..60 damage. all party members within earshot are healed for 30..45 health. divine healing/heaven's delight with spike assistance and shorter recharge on a necro
I like all of those except blood of the aggressor. The 'if target foe is attacking' clause seems way too flimsy to risk 15 energy and to rely on for a party heal. There is always a decent chance that a warrior or a dervish or such will instead be chasing the kiting target at the instant you cast it, instead of actively attacking. Too risky.
rick1027
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyla salanari
That's a waste of an elite slot. If your Monks need BiP, or even BR, especially in PvE, they're bad.
thats what i try to tell my fellow eles in my guild if you need energy try changing your bar instead of having one necro go bip. im constantly telling our bip dont hit me i was at 70 energy everytime you hit me i didnt need it
Kaida the Heartless
I may cry the day I see a Necro in a balanced build.
I like this thread. Tyla
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless
I may cry the day I see a Necro in a balanced build.
I like this thread. Rarely. I would of said HA, but then balanced isn't really balanced is it? GvG rarely has them.
Marverick
Make the magnitude of blood spells scale to health instead of direct loss to prevent blood spike (since the spike can't kill). For example:
Vampiric Gaze: Steal 5...15% of target foe's current health. Blood of the Aggressor: Sacrifice 5% health. If target foe is attacking, steal 5...15% of its current health from it. Else, target foe loses 5...15% of its health. Shadow Strike / Lifebane Strike: If target foe is above 50% health, it loses 10...30% of its current health. Else, it loses 5...15%. Ravenous Gaze: If you are below 30...80% health, steal 50% of target foe's current health. Else, steal 25%. Life Transfer: Target foe loses 10% health of its health every second for 1...10 seconds. All allies within earshot of target foe gain 5...15% of this. Bump the recharge down to 15.
Drakken Breathes Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marverick
Make the magnitude of blood spells scale to health instead of direct loss to prevent blood spike (since the spike can't kill). For example:
Vampiric Gaze: Steal 5...15% of target foe's current health. Blood of the Aggressor: Sacrifice 5% health. If target foe is attacking, steal 5...15% of its current health from it. Else, target foe loses 5...15% of its health. Shadow Strike / Lifebane Strike: If target foe is above 50% health, it loses 10...30% of its current health. Else, it loses 5...15%. Ravenous Gaze: If you are below 30...80% health, steal 50% of target foe's current health. Else, steal 25%. Life Transfer: Target foe loses 10% health of its health every second for 1...10 seconds. All allies within earshot of target foe gain 5...15% of this. Bump the recharge down to 15. I'd like where this is going; Ravenous Gaze being more useful, as at 15 blood magic it's useable at it's max efficiency at < 80% health. I'd change it to something more like this; Ravenous Gaze: Steal 5-15% target foes current health. If you are below 25-75% health, steal an additional 1-10% for every recharging Blood Magic skill. (maximum 30%) Vampiric Swarm: Steal 5-15% from target foe and up to 2 additional foes in the area. Unholy Feast: Steal 5-15% from up to 2-5 foes in the area. The scalable blood magic skills for all life stealing, makes them all viable as offensive skills AND not broken, since the life steal values are all percentages of the CURRENT health of the target, making it impossible to actually kill by life steal alone. Then, you could say, either go with a buffed life transfer, (I think the only thing it needs is a better recharge or longer duration, or both.) OR the Ravenous Gaze, depending which you'd prefer. I don't think I'd change a thing about blood bond except make it a maintainable enchantment and lower the health degeneration to 2. (maximum 3 targets.) Blood Ritual? again, maintainable, -1 health degeneration to upkeep. (maximum 3 targets.) So, with these changes; now we have a BATTERY. His elite slot is Ravenous Gaze. He has Dark Fury and Oop (or both optional). Blood Bond and Blood Ritual. AoTB SoLS and another optional. (res?) Blood Bond your 3 priority targets or health, and Blood Ritual 3 priority targets for energy. Dark Fury and OoP are unchanged. (lather rinse repeat for other optionals.) Use AoTB to increase blood magic for effectiveness. Ravenous Gaze//SoLS to keep your energy and health up withyour HEAVY self degen. You could change out the Ravenous Gaze for any other blood elite, like, Well of Power or BiP ect ect and spec into just energy or health and take a self heal. Tyla
That would only make Blood Magic worse.
It would have no place in a spike. (No, I'm not talking about Blood Spike.) And the Blood Magic line will be even weaker. Sure, you'll throw off the degenerate crap, but you'll also keep Blood Magic to the two skills OoP and DF outside of gimmicky crap.
Pyro maniac
more damage, less life-steal
jayce
fix life-stealing mechanic first before skills. anything at this point would do.
something like - if you or your target is below 50% health, the life stealing mechanic is active. otherwise you deal shadow damage. then you all can worry about balancing the skills till your hearts content. Jayce Of Underworld
System_Crush
I can't find who said it, but I support whoever posted the idea of only being able to life steal for as much health as you are below your maximum, the rest of life steal damage is converted to shadow damage.
It makes life sacrificing a interesting mechanic instead of just a cost and would enable any perceptive ranger or ele to kill a blood spiker as his health starts to plummit before he spikes. jayce
Source: Ravenous Gaze thread
Originally Posted by snaek
Quote: i was refering to strictly teh lifesteal spells e.g. u cast dark pact, deal 50shadow dmg, lose 53hp (10% of 530hp) u cast vamp gaze, target loses 53hp, u gain 53hp this as an attempt to stop abusable blood spike as they would have to either sac themselves (making them vulerable to spike themselves) or use shadow dmg spells in combination w/ lifesteal (which is protable) |
i had a very similar idea about life stealing mechanic in general, only that you would steal the health up to 80% (or 100%) of your maximum health and any remaining damage dealt would be shadow damage. but since i never worked on the actual numbers yet, i just left it on the back burner.
edit: something to do with infuse health.
Jayce Of Underworld
edit: something to do with infuse health.
Jayce Of Underworld
Div
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless
I may cry the day I see a Necro in a balanced build.
I like this thread. Orly? Watch Dark Alley vs Seppo hovi action team (rawr cup semis) or Dark Alley vs Thugz Mansion (rawr cup playoffs). Start crying now, because from what I've heard, some guilds have already started copying that build :P
I like this thread. Orly? Watch Dark Alley vs Seppo hovi action team (rawr cup semis) or Dark Alley vs Thugz Mansion (rawr cup playoffs). Start crying now, because from what I've heard, some guilds have already started copying that build :P
wally
Yeah, that Necro is a pretty sweet template. I thought it was a pretty sweet template when apr ran it.
It's insane role compression; Foul Feast and Plague Signet can be used to keep your warriors clean of blind, etc AND blind enemy physicals for free. Rend and Rip enchants strip enchantments so handily that running 3 physicals is no longer stopped by things like Aegis. And Enfeeble/weakness is a pretty sexy replacement for blind.
The only thing it *doesn't* do that the Air Ele and Mesmer characters did is interrupt. But that's why dR runs a ranger.
Oh the Necro has had a long road hasn't it? I'd be interested in hearing Ensign's analysis, too, since he has written quite a bit on previous states of Necros in GvG.
It's insane role compression; Foul Feast and Plague Signet can be used to keep your warriors clean of blind, etc AND blind enemy physicals for free. Rend and Rip enchants strip enchantments so handily that running 3 physicals is no longer stopped by things like Aegis. And Enfeeble/weakness is a pretty sexy replacement for blind.
The only thing it *doesn't* do that the Air Ele and Mesmer characters did is interrupt. But that's why dR runs a ranger.
Oh the Necro has had a long road hasn't it? I'd be interested in hearing Ensign's analysis, too, since he has written quite a bit on previous states of Necros in GvG.
Charlotte the Harlot
I was thinking changed blood drinker or a similar boring blood skill into a withering aura equivalent but for bleeding instead of weakness. I was also thinking that well of blood could take a significant life sac and be made at target allies location with no need for a corpse.
Div
Quote:
Originally Posted by wally
Oh the Necro has had a long road hasn't it? I'd be interested in hearing Ensign's analysis, too, since he has written quite a bit on previous states of Necros in GvG.
Ensign still does analysis? :O
I think it's come from being just used in necrospike and hex teams over the past year to being a strong condi-management character in the apr heavy condis build, to a general defense/support character in a heavy physicals build.
I think it's come from being just used in necrospike and hex teams over the past year to being a strong condi-management character in the apr heavy condis build, to a general defense/support character in a heavy physicals build.
snaek
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyla salanari
That's a waste of an elite slot. If your Monks need BiP, or even BR, especially in PvE, they're bad.
u dun bip teh monks
u bip teh eles
so they can spam rodgorts without wastin their elite on ele attunement or mind blast
and blood magic needs to move in teh direction of angorodons gaze and strip enchantment
less direct dmg and more utility
more pressure, less spike
etc, etc
let it cause conditions more easily
its "blood magic" and u cant even cause bleeding, wtf?
let blood drinker cause bleeding to self and target foe
blood - bleeding, deep wound
curse - weakness, crippled, cracked armour, blind
death - poison, disease
necros should be the master of conditions...
but unfortunately, they're not
if u let blood spike rely on deep wound like other spikes
it makes it more protable
(through draw or rc, etc)
even if teh lifesteal cant be prevented
thats one of teh viable options to make it protable
teh other is kiting
i.e. makin lifesteal half-ranged spells
turning lifesteal into dark dmg is not a viable option at all to making it protable
as it would no longer be 'lifesteal'
another option to lessen bloodmagic spike
is to change lifesteal ratio to 1:2 and reduce amount
i.e. vampiric gaze - target foe loses 40hp, u gain 80hp
u bip teh eles
so they can spam rodgorts without wastin their elite on ele attunement or mind blast
and blood magic needs to move in teh direction of angorodons gaze and strip enchantment
less direct dmg and more utility
more pressure, less spike
etc, etc
let it cause conditions more easily
its "blood magic" and u cant even cause bleeding, wtf?
let blood drinker cause bleeding to self and target foe
blood - bleeding, deep wound
curse - weakness, crippled, cracked armour, blind
death - poison, disease
necros should be the master of conditions...
but unfortunately, they're not
if u let blood spike rely on deep wound like other spikes
it makes it more protable
(through draw or rc, etc)
even if teh lifesteal cant be prevented
thats one of teh viable options to make it protable
teh other is kiting
i.e. makin lifesteal half-ranged spells
turning lifesteal into dark dmg is not a viable option at all to making it protable
as it would no longer be 'lifesteal'
another option to lessen bloodmagic spike
is to change lifesteal ratio to 1:2 and reduce amount
i.e. vampiric gaze - target foe loses 40hp, u gain 80hp
wally
Quote:
Originally Posted by holymasamune
Ensign still does analysis? :O
I think it's come from being just used in necrospike and hex teams over the past year to being a strong condi-management character in the apr heavy condis build, to a general defense/support character in a heavy physicals build. Well he certainly hasn't of late, but, well sometimes y'never know why someone is on sabbatical or whether the sabbatical is actually retirement or what not
Yeah, I think that's a pretty good estimation of the necro inclusion in gvg. Condi-management is a wonderful niche for them.
Also, <3 divine
I think it's come from being just used in necrospike and hex teams over the past year to being a strong condi-management character in the apr heavy condis build, to a general defense/support character in a heavy physicals build. Well he certainly hasn't of late, but, well sometimes y'never know why someone is on sabbatical or whether the sabbatical is actually retirement or what not
Yeah, I think that's a pretty good estimation of the necro inclusion in gvg. Condi-management is a wonderful niche for them.
Also, <3 divine
DDL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marverick
Make the magnitude of blood spells scale to health instead of direct loss to prevent blood spike (since the spike can't kill). For example:
Vampiric Gaze: Steal 5...15% of target foe's current health.
Blood of the Aggressor: Sacrifice 5% health. If target foe is attacking, steal 5...15% of its current health from it. Else, target foe loses 5...15% of its health.
Shadow Strike / Lifebane Strike: If target foe is above 50% health, it loses 10...30% of its current health. Else, it loses 5...15%.
Ravenous Gaze: If you are below 30...80% health, steal 50% of target foe's current health. Else, steal 25%.
Life Transfer: Target foe loses 10% health of its health every second for 1...10 seconds. All allies within earshot of target foe gain 5...15% of this. Bump the recharge down to 15. That would make any of the PvE uber HP bosses hilarious.
Cast Vamp gaze on the lich, gain 1500hp!
Vampiric Gaze: Steal 5...15% of target foe's current health.
Blood of the Aggressor: Sacrifice 5% health. If target foe is attacking, steal 5...15% of its current health from it. Else, target foe loses 5...15% of its health.
Shadow Strike / Lifebane Strike: If target foe is above 50% health, it loses 10...30% of its current health. Else, it loses 5...15%.
Ravenous Gaze: If you are below 30...80% health, steal 50% of target foe's current health. Else, steal 25%.
Life Transfer: Target foe loses 10% health of its health every second for 1...10 seconds. All allies within earshot of target foe gain 5...15% of this. Bump the recharge down to 15. That would make any of the PvE uber HP bosses hilarious.
Cast Vamp gaze on the lich, gain 1500hp!