I am trying to make Olias into a minion master since he is the only Necro I have and in my experience, minions have helped out alot when my team is being overrun by monsters >_> so how does this build look (remember I don't have all necro skills yet so this will probably change when I get an elite skill for creating minion)
Blood - 9
Death - 16
Soul Reaping - 9
Curses - 3 (this one was only used to fill up the leftover points really)
[skill]Animate Vampiric Horror[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill][skill]Animate Shambling Horror[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Minions[/skill][skill]Death Nova[/skill][skill]Barbed Signet[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]
Olias' Minion Master Build
Stuart444
AlanQQ
HEY well you have too many minion skills thats not really necessary, and the barb signet isnt necessary either lol. if you are going to have death nova on a hero, then i suggest you only take the Animate bone minions skill and drop the rest. There is a sabway (trio) necro hero build out there with a great example of death nova + bone minions build. Im not sure where but its definitely in guru 
check the hero section. But yeah, you definitely need blood of masters to keep ur minions alive. IF you dont plan to use the trio necro MM build, you can add Flesh golem as elite and jagged horror + fiend. BAsically you dont want too many summoning skills because its really not necessary due to the limited number of minions one mm can make.
check the hero section. But yeah, you definitely need blood of masters to keep ur minions alive. IF you dont plan to use the trio necro MM build, you can add Flesh golem as elite and jagged horror + fiend. BAsically you dont want too many summoning skills because its really not necessary due to the limited number of minions one mm can make.
DarkSpirit
I used a variant of Zingeri's MM before sabway:
[build box name="Fiend Nova Interrupt MM" prof=N/Me ins=3 death=12+3+1 sou=12+1][Death Nova][Animate Bone Fiend][Animate Bone Minions][Blood of the Master][Signet of Lost Souls][Leech Signet][Power Drain][Jagged Bones][/build]
Works fine in NM.
[build box name="Fiend Nova Interrupt MM" prof=N/Me ins=3 death=12+3+1 sou=12+1][Death Nova][Animate Bone Fiend][Animate Bone Minions][Blood of the Master][Signet of Lost Souls][Leech Signet][Power Drain][Jagged Bones][/build]
Works fine in NM.
Soul Saver
This is a pretty good start. As an mm you need [Blood of the Master] to heal your minions. I would get rid of [Barbed signet] and move all of the blood points to soul reaping or at least get it to 10. Maybe also change him to monk secondary and switch out [Resurrection Signet] for [Resurrection Chant] or another rez monk skill of your choosing. Also bring [Heal Area] or its Faction counter part [Karei's Healing Circle]. obviously you will have to move points to healing so i would suggest about 8. This should leave you with 10 soul reaping and 16 death magic. Heal area at healing 7 heals for 100 not only for a quick personal heal after using [Blood of the Master] and to heal your degening minions. You will have to remove some minion skills so its all personal preference with that. Keep [signet of lost souls] because heroes can use it the most accurately for a minor heal and energy gain. A computer can determine when 50% is better than a person. Also work towards capping [Animate Flesh Golem] cause its the best for an mm. hope this helps.
Kiluna
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanQQ
There is a sabway (trio) necro hero build out there with a great example of death nova + bone minions build. Im not sure where but its definitely in guru
It's here
@Stuart;
By skills you list i guess you have at least Factions and Nightfall, and since you got Olias you have Proph too. Though you didn't mention which campaings you have completed or how far you are in them. But since you say the ammount of skills available (spelling?) to you is limited atm, i could suggest 2 things.
1. Buy 1-2 skill unlockpacks, 9€ or 18€ extra on great game that doesn't have monthly fee is more fair imo. (take it as a monthly fee for this game untill you have bought all :P)
2. Something like this shouldn't be too hard to get (through Hero Skill / Skill Trainers or Balthazar faction):
[skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Minions[/skill] or[skill]Animate Bone Horror[/skill][skill]Blood of the Master[/skill][skill]Aegis[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill]
That should do it's job as meatshield, if you want run bomber instead, take bone minions with death nova and use rest of the slots on utility (aegis, condition removal or w/e)
If you can get Jagged Bones unlocked to your hero, i would suggest Sabs bomber or http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:N/..._Minion_Master
It's here @Stuart;
By skills you list i guess you have at least Factions and Nightfall, and since you got Olias you have Proph too. Though you didn't mention which campaings you have completed or how far you are in them. But since you say the ammount of skills available (spelling?) to you is limited atm, i could suggest 2 things.
1. Buy 1-2 skill unlockpacks, 9€ or 18€ extra on great game that doesn't have monthly fee is more fair imo. (take it as a monthly fee for this game untill you have bought all :P)
2. Something like this shouldn't be too hard to get (through Hero Skill / Skill Trainers or Balthazar faction):
[skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Minions[/skill] or[skill]Animate Bone Horror[/skill][skill]Blood of the Master[/skill][skill]Aegis[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill]
That should do it's job as meatshield, if you want run bomber instead, take bone minions with death nova and use rest of the slots on utility (aegis, condition removal or w/e)
If you can get Jagged Bones unlocked to your hero, i would suggest Sabs bomber or http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:N/..._Minion_Master
Lord Xivor
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:N/any_Minion_Bomber
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:N/any_Minion_Master
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:N/..._Minion_Master
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:N/...of_the_Lich_MM
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:N/..._Minion_Master
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:N/Rt_Animate_Splinter
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:N/any_Minion_Master
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:N/..._Minion_Master
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:N/...of_the_Lich_MM
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:N/..._Minion_Master
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:N/Rt_Animate_Splinter
Stuart444
Well [skill]blood of the master[/skill] is a definate skill I should use judging by the posts
EDIT: Btw I have all three campaigns and the expansion, however I am using faction points because I have not ascended yet in prophecies (working on that and thought a minion master would come in handy for that, and would come in handy in later areas as well)
I do NOT plan on unlocking any elite skills for my heroes without capturing them from the monsters because....well I want the satisfaction of knowing that I did that myself >_> if ANY hero (I dont know if this is true) has an elite skill already then fair enough but if they don't, then they won't until I capture it myself (but I need to be able to change my secondary profession for that >_> )
EDIT: Btw I have all three campaigns and the expansion, however I am using faction points because I have not ascended yet in prophecies (working on that and thought a minion master would come in handy for that, and would come in handy in later areas as well)
I do NOT plan on unlocking any elite skills for my heroes without capturing them from the monsters because....well I want the satisfaction of knowing that I did that myself >_> if ANY hero (I dont know if this is true) has an elite skill already then fair enough but if they don't, then they won't until I capture it myself (but I need to be able to change my secondary profession for that >_> )
DarkSpirit
MMs are usually the most important hero to bring along in most PvE cases.
I saved some interesting MM builds that I came across (with just their base attributes):
[build prof=N/D earthp=8 sou=10 death=12 blo=2][Aura of the Lich][Dark Bond][Infuse Condition][Mystic Regeneration][Blood of the Master][Animate Bone Fiend][Animate Bone Horror][Signet of Lost Souls][/build]
[build prof=N/? death=12 sou=12][Putrid Bile][Animate Vampiric Horror][Animate Bone Horror][Aura of the Lich][Blood of the Master][Taste of Death][Signet of Lost Souls][Resurrection Signet][/build]
[build prof=N/? blo=3 death=12 sou=12][Order of Undeath][Animate Bone Fiend][Animate Shambling Horror][Animate Vampiric Horror][Blood of the Master][Signet of Lost Souls][Dark Bond][Resurrection Signet][/build]
[build prof=N/Mo blo=2 death=12 sou=10 hea=8][Jagged Bones][Animate Bone Fiend][Animate Vampiric Horror][Infuse Condition][Blood of the Master][Heal Area][Dark Bond][Resurrection Chant][/build]
I saved some interesting MM builds that I came across (with just their base attributes):
[build prof=N/D earthp=8 sou=10 death=12 blo=2][Aura of the Lich][Dark Bond][Infuse Condition][Mystic Regeneration][Blood of the Master][Animate Bone Fiend][Animate Bone Horror][Signet of Lost Souls][/build]
[build prof=N/? death=12 sou=12][Putrid Bile][Animate Vampiric Horror][Animate Bone Horror][Aura of the Lich][Blood of the Master][Taste of Death][Signet of Lost Souls][Resurrection Signet][/build]
[build prof=N/? blo=3 death=12 sou=12][Order of Undeath][Animate Bone Fiend][Animate Shambling Horror][Animate Vampiric Horror][Blood of the Master][Signet of Lost Souls][Dark Bond][Resurrection Signet][/build]
[build prof=N/Mo blo=2 death=12 sou=10 hea=8][Jagged Bones][Animate Bone Fiend][Animate Vampiric Horror][Infuse Condition][Blood of the Master][Heal Area][Dark Bond][Resurrection Chant][/build]
Covah
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul Saver
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Soul Saver
Also work towards capping [Animate Flesh Golem] cause its the best for an mm. hope this helps.
Jagged bones or Aura of the Lich is way better then an elite devoted to making one more minion.
Chthon
The hero AI simply cannot handle a Minion Master build right. Instead you should give it a Minion Bomber build. That's something it can not only do right, but much better than a human.
There's a large list of things that a Minion Master needs to do the hero AI cannot do right. Rather than list them all, I'm going to mention the biggest one -- they do not "understand" minion degeneration, so they won't cast [blood of the master] at a steady pace to counteract it; instead they let the minions get too low on life, often losing minions because of it, and then cast BotM too aggressively and put themselves in danger -- and direct you to search the necromancer forum for other shortcomings of the hero AI. Here's a hero minion bomber build that I'd recommend for almost any zone where corpses are in adequate supply: [build prof=N/Rt death=16 soulreaping=13 resto=3][jagged bones][death nova][foul feast][infuse condition][animate bone minions][well of suffering][taste of death][death pact signet][/build] Taste of death can be replaced by [putrid flesh] for easier content where the self-heal isn't as important. Well of Suffering can be replaced by [dark fury] (& move some points to blood) if you're using a physical heavy team (imbagons and godmode warriors really appreciate it) or any particular skill that's more specially suited to your party or the area you're in. Death Pact Signet can be replaced by whatever rez you prefer if you're not confident in your team's ability to use it without consequences. [Edit: Realized that the mouseover for Foul Feast is old and completely wrong. The new description is: Quote:
5e, 1/4cast, 2 recharge |
Soul Reaping All conditions are transferred from target other ally to yourself. For each condition acquired in this way, you gain 0...36 Health and 0...2 Energy. Combined with Infuse Condition it lets the hero completely clear an ally of conditions every 3 sec and gain energy and health for doing it. The conditions passing to the minion aren't a problem because you're going to just blow the little guy up anyway.]
Spaced Invader
I would strongly suggest not to use Death Pact Signet on an MM bar.
If his protégé dies, not only does he die, but also 10 minions with Death Nova might turn on you. Way too risky to justify its use.
Coloneh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaced Invader
I would strongly suggest not to use Death Pact Signet on an MM bar.
If his protégé dies, not only does he die, but also 10 minions with Death Nova might turn on you. Way too risky to justify its use. not at all. 120 seconds is NOTHING. if two members of your team die in this much time you are going to fail anyways.
MasterSasori
I find Sabway's Jagged Bomber to be one of the most effective builds available for MMs.
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSasori
I find Sabway's Jagged Bomber to be one of the most effective builds available for MMs.
I like Jagged Bones too and I have been using it long before sabway.
Unfortunately many people at that time, before GWEN, kept insisting that I should use Flesh Golem for an optimal MM build. 
Spaced Invader
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloneh
not at all. 120 seconds is NOTHING. if two members of your team die in this much time you are going to fail anyways.
Simply not true.
(And if you're that much of an elitist, you wouldn't have to bring a rez on your MM in the first place, eh?)
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloneh
not at all. 120 seconds is NOTHING. if two members of your team die in this much time you are going to fail anyways.
Using DPS, all it takes is for the ONE guy that the MM resurrected to die again within the 120s and your MM would go along for the death ride. This leaves his minions to go hostile against your party.
Actually, I dont like having res on a MM even though I have seen builds that include one for the MM. When the MM dies, the penalty is just not worth it so I wouldn't waste the MM's time to slow cast a res on someone. DPS, on the MM, just makes it even worse. Conversely, having some healing/protect skills on the MM makes good sense now that I know more about MMs. If I bring a bonder, I always try to keep the MM well protected. Chthon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaced Invader
I would strongly suggest not to use Death Pact Signet on an MM bar.
If his protégé dies, not only does he die, but also 10 minions with Death Nova might turn on you. Way too risky to justify its use. 1. Let me repeat myself: Death Pact Signet can be replaced by whatever rez you prefer if you're not confident in your team's ability to use it without consequences. 2. And handful of bone minions with death nova should not be a huge threat to your team. Unless you're dumb enough to stop attacking the monsters and start killing the minions so that they all blow up on you at the same time, you can just let them swing away doing near-zero melee damage and they'll blow up piecemeal as they degen out. No problem. A pack of level 18/19 fiends and horrors from a minion master is another story. 10 of those can hurt a bit. But leftover bone minions from a minion bomber shouldn't be a concern. 3. Coloneh is right on this one. If your team has someone who's dying twice in 2 minutes, then you've got much bigger problems than a few loose bone minions. Since I started putting DPS on my heroes, the only time it's ever come back to bite me has been when I've joined PUGs without remembering to change it. (And even most PUGs are good enough that DPS isn't ever going to trigger on you.)
mrmango
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaced Invader
Simply not true.
(And if you're that much of an elitist, you wouldn't have to bring a rez on your MM in the first place, eh?) How is that comment elitist? Don't make up stuff to make yourself feel better. Coloneh speaks the truth.
Spaced Invader
I could not disagree more. For the reasons DarkSpirit listed.
DPS is not worth the risk of losing your MM (incl. minions). Bring it on any other char/hero if you like. There's no reason not to take any of the other zillion rezzes on your MM - or none at all, actually. If you're oh-so confident in your team's abilities the latter is just what you should do anyway. Super Igor
Heroes use shouts in a godly way, minions too, now why not combine them?
This what I use A LOT: Death: 16 Command: 10 Soul Reaping: 9 1. Jagged Bones 2. Death Nova 3. Animate Bone Minions 4. Blood of the Master 5. Foul Feast 6. Signet of Lost Souls 7. Stand Your Ground! 8. Never Surrender I wub this build, Minions + Shouts. <3 ~Super Igor
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
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First because of that one team member's death, you have lost all your minions and your MM at the same time, second, they turned against you. Is it really worth going through all that just for that 1 particular res that you have to put on your MM?
Quote: 3. Coloneh is right on this one. Coloneh is wrong, look at the definition of DPS:
"Resurrect target party member with your current Health and 15..83% maximum Energy. The next time that ally dies within 120 seconds, so do you. "
This means if the MM resurrected "weak guy" and "weak guy" dies within 2 minutes (i.e. 120s) which is an extremely long time within a battle by the way, then your MM dies immediately after him too.
Sab included DPS into the build to serve as minion factory FOR the MM, not for the MM himself to die. This is why her MM build never carried DPS or even any kind of res for that matter, but the other 2 necros do, for very obvious reasons.
Also check the wiki for yourself:
Quote:
DPS is the best rez skill in the game (well glyph of sacc + chant is better, but thats 2 slots) hands down. it is easily worth the "risk" (if thats what you want to call it) of losing your MM. there is no way you will be losing your MM. fights last 30 seconds in PvE, so you have maybe a 10 second window for that freshley rezzed character to die, which is nearly impossible unless you are rezzing a bip.|
Originally Posted by guildwiki
This is a great skill to use for creating a minion factory chain. One uses this on the sacrificer; when the sacrificer dies, the resurrector dies as well, providing more corpses to exploit, without causing another character to gather death penalty.
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Death_Pact_Signet
Coloneh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaced Invader
If you're oh-so confident in your team's abilities the latter is just what you should do anyway. |
by this time in a fight mobs will already have a target, and as this character is rezzed at the same health as the cast he wont show up on the attack priority of the AI so they wont even get attacked.
Having no rez on any non-monk is just stupid unless you can double your efficiency by using that one slot.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
Also check the wiki for yourself:
Wiki notes are notorious for being stupid, useless and just plain wrong.
Arkantos
I'd say DPS on your MM is pretty dumb, especially in a h/h group. MM resses dead hero/henchie, that hero/henchie dies within 2 minutes (very possible with h/h), and now you have 2 dead people plus hostile minions, which can screw you over. No matter how good you are, it's very easy for a hero/henchie to die in PvE.
Even in a human group, I wouldn't bring DPS on a MM, just because of the fact that it can potentially harm your party quite a bit more then any other player with DPS.
The Meth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
The hero AI simply cannot handle a Minion Master build right. Instead you should give it a Minion Bomber build. That's something it can not only do right, but much better than a human.
Honestly, I have never been able to get my hero to use any kind of minion bomber build even half as decent as a normal player would. Olias will cast BotM just fine during battle when he isn't busy making new minions. On the other hand, he stumbles horrible when using death nova, trying to cast it but 90% of the time the minion dies before he finishes. On top of that, he wants to stay 50 feet behind my party casting death nova on minions when he should be casting BotM. IMO the only thing heroes actually use better then a person is Signet of Lost Souls.
Personally I use these as my general all around MM build: [skill]Jagged Bones[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Horror[/skill][skill]Blood Of the Master[/skill][skill]Foul Feast[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]"Stand Your Ground!"[/skill][skill]"Fall Back!"[/skill] [skill]Jagged Bones[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill][skill]Animate Vampiric Horror[/skill][skill]Animate Shambling Horror[/skill][skill]Blood Of the Master[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]"Stand Your Ground!"[/skill][skill]"Fall Back!"[/skill] Attributes are DM 12 + 3 + 1, SR 10 + 1, Command 8 Shouts are always disabled. Stand Your Ground! is a kind of skill you use when s**t hits the fan and your backline starts taking some serious damage and needs some help. Fall back has the obvious use of being able to get from place to place faster while healing minions, but is also VERY nice when you have a h/h group and you have to flag them out of certain AoE spells fast. Sometimes I run an AotL MM instead, but I find its too annoying to have to constantly refresh their AotL spell, and if you don't they can suicide when they use it themselves. Order of Undeath is nice but I find in hard areas the sac usually ends up limiting your ability to use BotM and you end up having less and less minions which takes away any bonus damage you got from using OoU in the first place. I have tested out giving olias some other things like icy Veins, or even mark of pain/barbs at a decent curse spec in place of the command stuff, he can handle that fairly well but you have to call targets. As to the debate about a res on a MM, I never bring one. The reason being that I play with henchies, and they already have 2 res sigs. If I take more then 2 deaths in an area I figure its time to go back to the drawing board with my build.
Coloneh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkantos
I'd say DPS on your MM is pretty dumb, especially in a h/h group. MM resses dead hero/henchie, that hero/henchie dies within 2 minutes (very possible with h/h), and now you have 2 dead people plus hostile minions, which can screw you over. No matter how good you are, it's very easy for a hero/henchie to die in PvE.
Even in a human group, I wouldn't bring DPS on a MM, just because of the fact that it can potentially harm your party quite a bit more then any other player with DPS. what kind of heroes are you taking that suicide on rez and why are you taking the terrible henchies. bring decent hero builds and grab things like ranger henchies that dont blow up.
Arkantos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloneh
what kind of heroes are you taking that suicide on rez and why are you taking the terrible henchies. bring decent hero builds and grab things like ranger henchies that dont blow up.
I take the kind of heroes everyone else takes, the ones with horrible AI. What ones do you take?
I find it funny that you're telling me to bring decent hero bars, since this really has nothing to do with bars. It has to do with bad AI and how they can easily die. If I was bad and brought monk heroes, I'd have something to micro when a henchie is dying. But sadly PS on a necro isn't enough to keep AI alive. Ranger henchies have a whole 70AL, and have bad positioning, like most other henchies, so I have no clue what you're talking about. If you PvE without a single party member dying, I'm very sad that I'm not as good as you. But in the Guild Wars I play, the AI is crap, and h/h tend to occasionally die, even as pathetically easy PvE is. And before you attempt to troll/flame me, I'm not saying PvE is too hard. I'm saying the AI sucks, that is all.
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloneh
by this time in a fight mobs will already have a target, and as this character is rezzed at the same health as the cast he wont show up on the attack priority of the AI so they wont even get attacked. |
The guy then comes back from the dead with only 32% energy from the 3 points to restoration and about half health, with DP, then die again. And this time he pulls your MM into death with him and all your minions turn against you.
Quote:
When I can always let the other heroes in my party carry DPS instead of the MM.Quote:
Somebody still insists that DPS on the MM is the right res to bring, but we shouldn't be feeding the trolls. |
Wiki notes are notorious for being stupid, useless and just plain wrong.
In this case, the wiki is obviously right and you are wrong.
Chthon
1. Let me repeat for the third time: Death Pact Signet can be replaced by whatever rez you prefer if you're not confident in your team's ability to use it without consequences.
Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
Quote: First because of that one team member's death, you have lost all your minions and your MM at the same time, second, they turned against you. Is it really worth going through all that just for that 1 particular res that you have to put on your MM?
2. Let me repeat for the second time: The low-level minions from a minion bomber should not be a problem for your team unless you're dumb enough to attack them and spike yourself with death nova. (You can just call a monster target, so don't blame the henchies either.) They simply aren't that dangerous without their master manually exploding them.
3. You fundamentally misunderstand the deal with DPS. It doesn't matter how big the penalty is, because it's never going to happen. It could be "resurrect target party member with your life and some energy and if that party member dies within 120 sec your whole party dies and gets a 7-day ban and you computer starts on fire" and it would still be just fine because they're not going to die again within the time limit. Your party should have adequate passive defenses and adequate monks. The first death should have been a serious "oops" moment. And it shouldn't happen again. 4. Say what you like and think what you like. I've never had my minion bomber hero die to DPS while H+Hing, and I've rarely had the other heroes who carry DPS die either . It's entirely possible to play in a way that DPS won't come back to bite you. Which brings me back to where I started: If you can't or won't adopt this style, you don't have to -- just change the rez, play your own way, and quit posting garbage here.
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
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Quote:
Why did your MM even bother to sac his health and spent all that energy to maintain his army when you would have to fight them in the end?
Quote:
Oh, why? Don't your fights never last longer than 30 seconds? Isn't it impossible to die twice during a fight?|
3. You fundamentally misunderstand the deal with DPS. It doesn't matter how big the penalty is, because it's never going to happen. It could be "resurrect target party member with your life and some energy and if that party member dies within 120 sec your whole party dies and gets a 7-day ban and you computer starts on fire" and it would still be just fine because they're not going to die again within the time limit. Your party should have adequate passive defenses and adequate monks. The first death should have been a serious "oops" moment. And it shouldn't happen again.
Then you are asumming that no one in the party would have more than 1 death in ALL battles and the highest DP anyone in your party would ever get is 15% AT ALL TIMES, in HM, even without using consummables. I dont believe that would always hold true for even a minute. Quote:
No it doesn't work on Minions. Order of Undeath does.
Quote:
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkSpirit stupid henchies (which are set to default aggressive) attack the jagged horrors would cause more damage and bleeding. Jagged cause bleeding when they attack, not when they are attacked. Quote:
If for you, no fight in PvE lasts longer than 30 seconds (I'd really like to see you in action vanquishing Joko's Domain, Eastern Frontier etc. in Hardmode), than congratulations to you.
For the average player -- who comes to Guru and thinks that every word here is pure wisdom -- that simply does not hold true, though. Since the rez is done by the AI, judgement is so poor that "rezkills" are not unusual at all. A stupid hench getting ripped apart by 5 Maelstorms, the poor AI rezzing him with Death Pact Signet just where he died, so that he will die again instantly. If it's not the MM who rezzed him, I don't really care. It's 4 more minions with 4 more Death Novas. And it means not losing my current minions, so it means even more Death Novas (because you can't keep casting DN on rogue minions). And -- in case you run Sabway and unless you run a high damage build on your own char -- the Minion Bomber is pretty much the main damage source in your group (the Hero SS is just too poor in its judgement to qualify for that title). Quote: |
So, shouldn't 3(+2=5) Hardrezzes in a H/H already be enough if PvE is that easy for you?
Why squeeze another rez on the MM if PvE is such a joke to you? You really shouldn't need it.
As a matter of fact, even a scrub like me rather easily vanquished every area without any rez at all on my MM. Never needed it.
Quote:
Quote: Originally Posted by Chthon
1. Let me repeat for the third time: Death Pact Signet can be replaced by whatever rez you prefer if you're not confident in your team's ability to use it without consequences.
You can repeat yourself for the fourth or 28th time for all I care. It won't stop us from discussing the Death Pact Signet On A MM issue.
Quote:
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2. Let me repeat for the second time: The low-level minions from a minion bomber should not be a problem for your team unless you're dumb enough to attack them and spike yourself with death nova. (You can just call a monster target, so don't blame the henchies either.) They simply aren't that dangerous without their master manually exploding them.
Oh yea, so true. Except for this: a) Henchies often don't react instantly on your calls b) AoE attacks are usually brought and used in PvE (Cynn's fireworks, the SS Hero, your own build... everything that is considered a damage dealer in PvE usually deals AoE damage) and attacking a foe will almost automatically result in also attacking the minions c) That aside, it's not that much about the danger of getting killed by the own minions. But the risk of losing one of your main damage sources, since your MM can't keep putting Death Novas on rogue minions (in case he gets rezzed instantly). Of course it's also partly about using control over your meat shields, which are part of the groups defense. In a nutshell: The MM usually the cruicial component of any H/H group, and putting him at unnecessary risk (via Death Pact) is just... well, unnecessary. Even more because you regard all PvE as such an easy trial where deaths hardly ever occur: Quote:
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