How far can you go? (HFFF)

I'm planning on maxing Kurzick. I'm 1/10 of the way right now. I've heard that you can use macros/bindings to aid you. But how far can you go before you cross the line? I did some searching, and I'm seeing tons of hfff bots that people use afk.

The idea of saving myself 300 excruciating hours is indeed a good one. But I'm not about to do anything that can get me banned. Does Anet really not care about botting hfff? It seems like nothing is being done about it.

If I can make 300 hours of the same 60 seconds over and over easier, I will gladly do it, but within restrictions.

There is a difference between a bot doing it for you and using macros to move your heroes. Using a bot = ban. Macros = okay.

How do you use/setup macros?

macros to set flags for HFFF is another name for bot

Its kinda same but macros aint illegal.. and look from ya keyboard if ya got G11 or G15 etc keyboard

Avoid doing anything that can get you banned. Just don't do it.

Back to maxing your Kurzick title, I'm currently 10/12 all from hFFF. I've never been much of a PvP person. The first 4-5 ranks is all about learning the flagging locations and not messing up. Around the time you reach rank 6 and higher, you'll have to be proficient and patient for the longer grinds.

Tips on increasing your times include:
- Use the F1-F4 Keys for flagging your h/h.
- Make your secondary Warrior or Paragon and take one the following running skills [Charge] [Fall back] [godspeed] for a quick start.
- If your just starting to hFFF its not uncommon to be doing runs in 1 minute or more. However, when you get to higher ranks, you will want to cut your time to less than one minute (52-55 second, my times)

Good luck on your runs. You'll probably see my characters Christie Armstrong/Viktor Braveheart in Lutgardis.

Yeah, using macros is the same as botting, as long as you have to use a program to do, what you are supposed to do, you are using a bot...

By all means, feel free to elaborate. I can't seem to get the pin placement down, so, anything to help there will suffice.

I allready maxed 30 titles last december and haven't got the Luxon or Kurzick one. I sure did chest running for some time but repeating a quest to max 10.000.000 points is asking way to much. I'm very pleased with both on rank 4which allows me to put them into the Hall of Monuments.

Feel free to bot in Lutgardis because Anet have proven by their actions that they will not ban HFFF bots. I reported them until I got blue in the face, but no action was taken against them.

Negative result does not equal proof of negative.

Do not bot period. There being a preponderence of bots in one location and people claiming to have not seen any action being taken against those bots is not sufficient evidence that none is taken. Better to be safe than sorry.

While we are talking about hfff, can anyone provide a good link (screenshots would be a nice bonus) for how to do this Kurzick-style? Once I get my legendary vanquisher and master of the north titles, they may be next on my list.

Why in the hell would you report someone for doing something that does not affect you in ANY way? Do you call the Police every time you see someone speeding, or not using their turn signals properly? If you happen to have any siblings, I feel sorry for them...you prolly go running to mommy every time you see them doing something against the rules.

I haven't seen you high on drugs, but that's no proof that you're not a crack addict.
Why do you care what I report or not? Is botting against the EULA? Yes. Does the reporting facility allow "botting" as a reporting criterion? Yes. Are you a botter? Are you worried that I might have reported you?

And it does affect me. It increases the amount of grind I need to do to have my alliance keep control of a town, which I need for the cheap lockpicks to max my unlucky title. Let's be honest here. HFFF botting is not victimless like drunkard botting.

i wouldnt use macros if i were you.
if u do, u're at risk and don't cry if u get banned

Exactly my point. This is true for nearly all knowledge. Just because you did not observe something (or cannot conceive of something) does not mean that it did not or could not happen. Hence your argument that it is okay to bot in Lutgardis is invalid.

It is valid by the available empirical evidence. If you understood the first thing about empiricism, you would know that one never proves anything. One just finds evidence to support a hypothesis, or makes an observation that falsifies it. So far I haven't, and don't know of anyone who has, made an observation that falsifies the claim "Anet does not ban HFFF botters".

So, you do go running to mommy.

As for my use of a bot, I learned basic a very long time ago, anything beyond that is beyond my abilities. My Kurzick faction is currently <50k.

And Drunkard botting is not victimless. It breaks the EULA, and each time the EULA is broken, a kitten gets herpies.

The main flaw in Esan's arguement is it is often very difficult to tell the difference between a bot and a human HFFF who has a very specific routine. HFFF by definition requires a player to perform "bot like" behavior. Esan assumes all the people he reported were bots, but they could very well have been legitamate players who use the signposts for movements.

Ah, I see that you don't actually have a point then. Good. For a second I was worried that you would present a cogent argument about HFFF botters that would show them in a sympathetic light, but you are just interested in castigation, not dialogue.

Emperical evidence is essential in all proofs, however, negative results do not constitute empirical evidence in any realm of logic. They can be referred to, but never depended on. Failing to see something is hardly empirical evidence as it can be attributed to a number of things:

1) Your eyes were closed - basically, this means the observer was using improper or malfunctioning observation equipment. With the tools at hand, there would be no way to obtain a positive result. The big thing here is that we as players have no way to PROVE that anything we encounter is a bot. We can only guess by behavior. Thus even if you reported someone, it is possible that it stayed simply because it wasn't a bot. HFFF is very repetitive and by the time anyone maxes this title their actions and movements should be so precise that it would be mistaken for bots.

2) Disposition - If the observer does not want to see results, he can easily choose not to. If having a positive result adversely affects any preconceived notions, positive results can be ignored. This is not so easy to do in the scientific realm, but in the statistical realm (such as how many bots that I report get banned) this is very easy. How do you know that the bot you reported got banned? You don't see them anymore, but that doesn't mean it got banned. Maybe it just finished what the user needed it to do. Hence, ignoring the positive result. This also ties into the first in that you cannot actually observe a bot being banned. The absence of a bot is not proof that it was banned, nor does the retention of a bot prove that nothing is done about bots (for it might not even be one).

3) Positive results are not observable - This was foreshadowed above and is most applicable in this scenario. How can you be certain a bot was banned? You can be certain an avatar was not banned, but not certain whether it was a bot. You can fail to encounter an avatar that you assumed to be a bot, but that does not mean that avatar is no longer around. This is an immeasurable assumption and no ammount of empirical evidence can lead to any conclusions.

There is simply no way to prove that nothing is done about bots in Lutgardis, just as it is impossible to prove that something IS done about bots. So why would you encourage someone to cheat when you are already frustrated by it?

The normal way to flag your heroes/henchies would be to use the tiny flags under your compass 1 by 1. This can be rather slow. To automatically get a flag on a hero, press F11 and go to Options where you can set a key that will allow you to flag Hero 1, Hero 2, Hero 3, and Henchmen. For me, I find that the F1-F4 keys allow for easy access. But by all means, you can use number keys or something more comfortable for you.

My order is zone out, [U] map, F1 (Hero 1 location), F2 (Hero 2), F3 (Hero 3), and F4 (since the heroes are already flagged, only the henchmen will be flagged). All of this takes less than 2 seconds to do. I'll include screen shots if necessary later on.

Look, it is a plain fact that there are HFFF bots in existence. A simple google search will reveal several versions.

We can take as a working hypothesis that a bot is identifiable by its behavior and responses to stimuli. The ones I have reported have all run to the Melandru's Hope marker (reachable by two "target next" actions from any of the Lutgardis spawn points), then spun around until the portal was in front of them, then run through them. To check if they indeed were bots, I sent them a personal message. None of them responded.

You see them doing it hour after hour for weeks on end, non stop, and it is clear that they can't be humans. Some of them even foolishly display a Savior of the Kurzicks title, and they are still botting away. The only reason can be to inflate the faction costs of towns, because there are faster ways to make money.

And if you report them, nothing happens. This has been going on since shortly after the release of nightfall, when HFFF was first formulated. Nothing has changed in a year.

This farm requires a bot. Whether it's human operated or software program, there's no difference.

That said - it's an insult to human intelligence to require grind of this type. Anyone *not* using a bot to get this title should ask themselves how can they throw away 300 hours of their life like this.

Rather than doing something this, getting a job at McDonalds, flipping burgers is a no-contest decision. It pays, involves social interaction and can be put on resume. But to waste life on something that absurd should be criminal offense.

There is absolutely no way to distinguish a bot from human doing HFFF. None. Even running non-stop for 36+ hours is not a valid criteria.

jesus, all he wanted to know was wether or not he was allowed to use macros...

It's a Grind. Like most (maby all) titles. Do it properly or don't do it at all.

Like botting a title is rewarding?!

Can one really have a productive dialogue with a whiner?

And as for botters, specifically HFFF botters, I could care less. Yes, they farm large amounts of Faction and also a little bit of money. Could an argument me made that the extra influx of money hurts the economy? I don't think so. Could an argument be made that their activity causes you to loose out on cheaper keys? I don't think so, as your access to cheaper keys depends too much on your entire Guild's participation in Faction farming and also, I seriously doubt that another Guild is made up of farmers looking to capture a town.

That better?

And btw...a neighbor let his wife use his account, and the next day, their cat came down with herpies...proof.

Macros are fine, but I'm not sure where the line is drawn between those and bots.

Macros = human interaction.
They allow quicker selection of Heroes, Skills...whatever. But as for as I know, my G-15 does not allow me to move my character around, choose targets (other than C for closest, T for called etc...) or perform other actions such as selling to the merchant or running to a sign post.

Bots = fully automated
Hit start, and watch the software do the rest.

Macros are, in my opinion, fine. Bots, not so much...but this view is purely on a case-by-case basis.

Hai guyz,back to op's question would be cool yes? sure it would

Anyways,the way I find it quite easy to run is using numpad in order like;
7-8-9 -> Hero #3
4-5-6 -> Hero #2
1-2-3 -> Hero #1

F5,F6,F7,F8 -> flagging henchies and heroes

Flagging should do you no problem after you make several runs and have that area explored(tho I sometimes find it problematic when border is covering stairs,but hey,that's just me ^^)
Also,it's easier to put same skill order on all heroes(for example; SF,Djinn's Haste,Dash) and then just run your fingers over numpad in simple sequence,from up to down(or vice versa) whatever.
Hope that helps

P.S. To those guys arguing about botting and using all those points wich is nothing but bunch of bull cos they all repeated themselves atleast twice,stop it

I can HFFF (HFF to some people, but meh...) however I don't use running builds on my heroes. That's right... I can do it without the "needed" running builds, but at the cost... it takes much MUCH longer to do, but it is possible.

Are there anyway to bind all those 3 flags to 1 G15/G11 Macro keys?
(Anet have said that you cant get banned for using the macro keys and macros are not the same as botting.)

There really isn't any good way to discern botters from real people in HFFF. For once, I am running two accounts at once, and due to the need for large map, my chat is hidden from me. Add to it, that the annoying sounds are muted (you try having the same sounds for hours on end), there is no way for me to detect a whisper.
And if you have ever HFFF'ed, you would know just how fast the chat log gets scrolled by the quest updates, especially if you have explore the forest one active as well.

So, by common bot-detection, am I a bot - I don't reply to whispers, and I keep on running out of the outpost all the time and don't see what is going on around me (again, big map)?

Then it loses the "F", therefore you're probably better running around killing random crap in HM. I'm sure you can do it without running builds, most people could figure out something simple like that but why would you?

To the OP: Macros are ok, bots are not. Everyone who says otherwise is wrong :]

I have my reasons, mostly because I don't know the builds nor bother to figure it out in the end. What works for me just does.

Just for the record, I hate Hard Mode.

HFFF.........

I did it without macros. Please, use macros if you dont want a headache. It is said that there arent illegal.

You do realize you just backed up his point, right?

You can use texmod to put the dots on your map where to flag the heroes, here is a link the texmod page:Texmod.

As to whether you use a bot or become one, I couldn't care less. I would advise against using downloaded bot, there is way too large a risk of getting your account stolen or downloading some kind of trojan. Download some kind reputable macro program and make your own if you are going to bot.

Just don't do something stupid, like continue botting past the title limit just for the sake of holding towns or amassing gold.

Also, there is absolutely no hard line between macros and bots. None.

Assuming you already have keys assigned to them:

1. Open up the Logitech G-series keyboard Profiler.
2. Open up your gw profile in the drop down menu (or create one if you haven't already got one.).
3. Click on the space beside the "G" key you want it to be.
4. Go to "Assign Keystroke"
5. Push the button that you have (I think) "Command Hero 1" bound to and click "Okay".

And macros are fine to use so long as it requires you to be sitting in front of your computer. If it's automated enough that you can go to sleep and it'll still keep doing it, that's when they start to not like it. There was a post about it somewhere on these forums I'm sure.

There's also a mod that you can run throught TexMod that'll put spots on the map so you know exactly where to flag your heroes.

Hope this helps!

It became rewarding the moment they linked the Kurz/Lux skills to this mindless grind. To spice it a little bit they made it really really hard to get even the most basic level of the skills. Good Job Anet!

yeah , that answers part of what i meant =)
are there a way to press one button , all flags get placed and heroes just run off?