Is it okay to buy expensive items for cheap from noobs?

Not everyone has the same opinion about what constitutes lying. I consider it lying when you intentionally withold information for your own personal gain to someone else's detriment. One of the Webster's definition of the word lie even addresses that view:

"Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression."

I would say that agreeing to trade with someone at a price you know to be too low is giving a wrong impression of the value of the item, and it is with this definition I work.

But, again, if you see it differently we're just back to the question of why you care so much about something you claim to not care about.

Whats a fair value for a weapon for trade? I say its the agreed price between the buyer and sellers. Don't you agree? Or you want to take reference from some other price someone else sells for?

I mentioned that I don't care if people who used to respect me stopped respecting me after this thread. That doesn't stopped me from fighting for what I believed is correct.

Depends. Is the item you're buying about five times less the amount it's usually bought for?

Damn, this is just gonna come back down to what I posted earlier. Nevermind.

It's a player set market. As soon as a 100k+70e B/O is listed for the FoTM item, most will follow shortly.

Then let's provide a bit of context: This person picked up a "perfect" Iridescent Aegis near the release of Factions and is selling it for 12k.

All in all the responses to my question won't matter because it's a personal choice. Either teach them through telling or have them realize the price later on after they've sold it to you.

To the OP:

Yes it is ok.

I buy for 12k, resell for the current value (or slightly under for a quicker sell)

That is trade. If people have an issue with that..I'm stumped tbh

You could tell them a more accurate price, couldn't you?

I could, but why should I?

I done my research, they should do theirs.

I was no better when I was new. I over spent when buying, and sold good stuff too cheaply. That is the way of online trading. Good people learn, bad people don't.

Goalposts are heavy and you shouldn't try to move them by yourself.

This thread, to this point, has been about whether or not it's fair game to knowingly pay less (assumed substantially less) than the current market value for an item because the seller doesn't know any better. As such, any metadiscussion about what constitutes a "fair trade value" is irrelevant. The assumed fair value is the market value for the purposes of this thread, and will stay that way so long as my participation is concerned.

I will say this about it, and nothing more: if someone is intentionally selling below market value, despite knowing market value, so be it. That's their choice. That is NOT the same thing as someone selling below market value because they have no context to set an appropriate price. They are entirely different circumstances and only the latter is under discussion.

it would be cool if people would actualy tell those noobs to hold on to the item and sell it later when they know about prices and rares , i sold a req8 max zodiac bow for 15k it was a lot of money for me... back then when i was a noob

We can start a new kamadan babysitter team. Everytime you see someone selling below a fair value, pm them. You get one point. At the end of the day trade the points for keys and you get to open a secret chest. Some of the items you can find:

1) Hugz
2) Lovez
3) Kissez
4) Carebear Minipet

Maybe GW should police trades too, to make sure nobody has their game experience ruined by as 'bad' people

So they don't get "screwed" over, so to speak. So they get a more "fair" reward for selling the item.

Notice the use of subjectives. You certainly don't have to teach them that way. One way or another, they'll find out about how much the item was really worth. It's just how you choose to teach them that matters.

I've done a lot of that here on Guru. I'm not going to waste my playing time though.

Ingame everyone is fair game.

Ok I get ya. Next time before I trade, I make sure the person know about the market price. I link them to the price guides, I intro them some PC gurus to do price checks for them. And hopefully, if he still has that item, I buy it from them for the market price. And then I go slap myself.

I should start a new guild with a tag: Your friendly babysiters [hugz]

How would you waste your playing time by telling them "that item's really worth 1000k"?

Because not chasing players out of the game by screwing them over early on helps keep it from turning into a giant pile of suck full of idiots and elitist nerds... like what it has now.

Granted, there's so much other suck sitting around in Guild Wars that this wouldn't be enough alone, but it would be a start.

this reminds me of the "modern morals" section that comes in the Times 2 every day :P

Because then I'm losing out obviously, plus it's not down to me to babysit people. No one held my hand when I was new. Everyone was trying to sell my non-max chaos axes for 5k claiming they were super rare etc...

I do my community work here, ingame time is my time.

So instead of helping them out in a matter that will more benefit them, you apply it in a matter that will benefit yourself?

Nonetheless you answered my question.

And it really is as simple as that. A great shame that so few people around here seem to get it....

Nope, Zev was right about the lying part. When you make a deal like this, you cannot avoid saying, either explicitly or implicitly, that "I think X is a fair price for Y" when you know that isn't a fair price at all. And that's a lie.

I always do not think the market price is fair value to be honest. The only price that MATTERS most is the eventual price which I sell the weapon at.

Let me quote an example:

If I sold a fellblade for 100k + 40ectos (market is +20e), am I lying? Am I unethical?

If you think I am, then you win the thread hands down. I lost and you can have 5 keys to the secret chests.

Of course. The number 1 rule in life: Look out for #1 (yourself)

I donanted my time to this community by moderating, doing PC's, writting various guides in the PC forum, answering trade questions etc

What did I get for that time? f*ck all besides constant grief, so don't go out making me look the bad guy. I've done more then my fair share compared to most of you.

AFTER ALL THE PAGES OF EXCUSES AND JUSTIFICATION MODS INCLUDED A REMINDER IN WHAT THE EXACT TITLE OF THIS CESS PIT THREAD.

Is it okay to buy expensive items for cheap from noobs?

NOOBS? KNOWN UNINFORMED SUCKER FOR THE GREEDY.

but this is goldwars guru not the game and i like the new gold site adds that keep popping up now in the banner

Your comment has nothing to do with this thread, so I can only assume you've either lost interest or simply lost the argument. Either way, it would appear the discussion is, for all intents and purposes, over.

I've moderated technical forums and you get the same thing there, so I know what you mean. But, the purpose isn't to get something for yourself (although I got a $25 gift cert to Amazon at Christmas each year as a thanks for my mod duties), it's to create a better environment for other people and the community as a whole. That that doesn't happen in Guild Wars is one of the reasons the game is such trash anymore.

If you didn't want to do that, it's your own stupid fault you subjected yourself to the hassle that goes along with DONATING your time.

The same thing applies to this subject: it's for the benefit of the overall system. If more people were a little more helpful maybe 90% of the people playing anymore would be doing something useful and fun instead of standing around spamming "LF PLVL 4 FREE NO NOBBS PLZ" and "LOL NAXI JEW PIG"

If any of you kids has the chance of buying a 100k++ item for 5k or whatever ridiculously low amount of gold, nobody with some amount of common sense will turn that offer down, and if you do, I just feel very, very sorry for you...

They are probably thinking if it is the ethical thing to do. And by the time they realize they should just buy it, the item is gone and here they are QQ about how unethical the person who bought it was.

You just proved what he has stated. Everyone can QQ except for moderators. Its their job to moderate and they cannot QQ about it. If they do, they are stupid and its their own fault that they volunteer to waste their time. Right?

You won the thread. All my comments have nothing to do with the thread. Its just merely some spams. Good night (or whatever time it is over there) and hope you enjoy your babysitting job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial_Kitsune
It is fine when the seller knows the true price and still decides to sell the items cheaply. It is wrong when the seller does not know the true price. Would you buy a black dye for 100g when the seller does not know about the true price?

I have sent more than a few 'players' to the dye trader

After deciding to think about this for around 10 seconds, I decided, I dont care about buying off people for cheap, they should know what there selling imo.

but really I dont care about the opinions of the people on there high horses looking to be 'hero of the newbie', just RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO off!

Yea, it's kind of obvious you only spent 10 seconds thinking. You didn't need to specify it, the immaturity and pointlessness of your post betrays it quite clearly.

It's a volunteer job. If you don't like it, don't do it. You shouldn't go into a volunteer job expecting some benefit for yourself beyond feeling good that you're not a useless lump of carbon wasting the planet's resources (although, that really applies more when you volunteer at a soup kitchen or something like that...).

You're not even "looking out" for yourself. You don't need any of that stuff in Guild Wars. You don't need massive sums of money for a polar bear, you don't need all these high-end armors - you don't "need" anything.

So you've donated numerous amounts of help and effort to this website. That makes it totally fine to still "exploit" others? Some who may have good intentions, who are actually "nice" people?

1. If I were being willfully ignorant because I was too lazy to utilize the vast amount of information available to me, then yes. I got what I asked for, I was happy with it and when I learned just how much more I could have sold it for I shrugged it off. Lesson learned, though it didn't actually bother me. I thought my invo space was worth more than the item or sell.

2. If they were being willfully ignorant because they were too lazy to utilize the vast amount of information available to them, then yes. They got what they asked for and are happy with it otherwise they wouldn't have sold it for that price in the first place.

3. No. I have yet to see how I've done anything wrong. In fact, if you pm me I'll corroborate with you in game and we'll make a trade, you report me to Anet and I'll tell you the lack of action they took against me.

4. Sure, I could, but would I? Hell no. My mother would slap me in the back of the head for being so lazy and say "I know I raised you to be smarter than that" and she has.
In context of me telling her something I did, yes I would, because I know she'd be proud that I took the initiative and effort for something that is going to help me in the long run.

I really don't understand the comparing to real life thing. Firstly, there are rules, laws and regulations so the economy isn't going to collapse. Show me where it says I'm not allowed to buy for cheap in the EULA. And who said anything about lying? I don't have to speak a word to the seller to trade with them. There was no lying done. Period. It seems that your questions are done because you think it's lying. That may be your opinion, but it is not a definite. I, in no way, shape or form, helped the seller determine his price. So, how could I lie?

As for reporting myself to the police. What am I going to report? That I bought something cheap from someone else after they gave me a pre-determined price? Also, big difference in getting banned from GW for a couple of days than getting jailed for any amount of time. A ban from GW is taking a break, being jailed is a loss of freedom.

I don't think it's nice, but to be honest... if someone put up a q9 crystalline for 50k, 15^50, hell yes, I'd take it. I wish I could say I would take the higher road, but honestly... nah. I'd take the sword in a moment.

But would you sell it or keep it?

I figure if you're planning on keeping it, it doesn't matter. Then again its pretty much their fault anyway D:

Look out for #1 the rule in life. Nice, Gordon Gecko. There are plenty of people in prison living that rule. GG

This isn't life, however. It's a game. If you are lying about the item's value when they ask, yeah, it might be screwed up, but what are they really going to lose out on? Fake money? They will get on in the game and gain enough experience that that kind of thing won't happen again. If it does, they are a frigging moron for not knowing better after playing the game for a good period of time.

Personally, I wouldn't do that. I'd try to help them out. At least direct them to a forum where they could get an idea, or let them see what gives on the trade chat.

As to Malice.....c'ya in Hyboria, and I'll be sure not to trade with ya!

it's a game guys....a game....nothing i do in this game carries over into real life, and if it does for you...well

One thing I'd like to point out is that some of our youngest players may not be as familiar with web research as those of us who are more 'life-experienced'. When I was a TA at Ohio State, I had to teach some of the high school grads how to research. I certainly don't expect a 12 year old to know what I know about web searching. While this is a remote possibility for our gamers, some kids may be allowed access to the game but not to the 'net by ultra-conservative parents. They might not have the same resources available to thm.

Another thing I'd like to point out is that the amount of information
needed to play this game well is just massive. I was lucky and had some friends who played the game when I bought it about 8 months back to show me the ropes, but there's so much information to master. Things like price check forums are not immediately obvious to a new player.

There is a certain truth that new people aren't likely to have the uber-rare 100k items, so the chance of getting ripped off at that level is smaller than, say, pre-searing with black dye drops. So here's the question--are you on average going to make that much more than a few plat by withholding the information about an item's worth? I'm not talking about legitimate profitable trades where you get a really good deal because the seller wants to price something low so it sells more quickly. In that situation, the person is trading off some money in return for less time spent spamming the trade channel. I'm OK with that.

In the situation where someone clearly is going to get taken advantage of, I just don't think that's fair. If there was a huge discrepency in market value vs. what the seller was asking, I might ask something like 'are you aware this might be worth a lot more than you're asking?' If they are and they want to continue the trade, then that's fine. If they need time to look it up, fine.

I haven't done a lot of in-game trades, but I have done a lot of retail in real life. If you're trying to use trade to make your gold, you have two options--take advantage of people or treat them fairly. If you treat them fairly, your chance of repeat customers goes up. Treat them poorly or take advantage, and you'll likely never see them again.

One last thing--when I get to the point where I'm trading more seriously, I'll be a lot more likely to go to someone here who's said they won't screw over newbies. I'm far less likely to buy/sell from those of you who said you'd take advantage of the situation, because I wouldn't be sure whether or not you were trying to take advantage of me, too.

Right, Well in the aspect of my immaturity: I think your gay.

How do you like that?

Its called buy low sell high. nuff said

- Ganni