I love when Anet makes this game more difficult

I just played monk in fow for the first time in a couple of months. I hadn't in a while, and I noticed that monking in fow was considerably more challenging. The mosters were leaving their targets after they agro'd and hitting the soft targets in the back.

My goodness, it was chaos. What a difference. It actually made the game more challenging.

The reason I post this is to thank Anet, I've played a few mmogs before, and the usual pattern is this:

1. Game comes out
2. Farmers build bots
3. Farmers petition by posts to make the game easier for them to farm (some use game to make money)
4. Game gets ruined

GW is doing the unbelievable. They are ignoring the farmer/bot makers and are making the game harder. I can't wait for the next nerf. I hope they make the monsters intelligent enough to pick out the softest targets and concentrate all the fire on them. I hope they give more monsters interrupts to make monking more challenging. I hope they continue in their current direction, which will keep the game going. imho - well done - bravo - keep it up. The more posts I see about how a popular, no-brain build is ruined - the better.

/agree completely

nothing more to say, really...

Meh, I don't agree with everything you've said there, but a friend and I were discussing the AoE change and how that could have been avoided. Like, for example, the desert griffons in Prophet's Path ... Anet could have stopped invincimonking cold by just moving the Storm Kin over a bit. One Mesmer monster = no invincimonks.

The AoE patch makes the game more challanging in my opion and is gives it a much more real feel.

Every player worth a bit moves when he's hit by a meteor shower / firestorm / chaos storm, actually quite good to see the monsters do the same.

I admit i was shocked at first playing with my ele, but after some adjusting, my ele again kicks ass and i actually have to think now

Prophet's Path nerfed - Keys introduced
Protective Bond Nerfed - Nightmares added - AoE Nerf

Rewards - weakened? Seems kinda odd in that sense. Denravi sword removed, unconditional weapons removed but the current copies stayed within the game. The only beneficial change to the drops were that purples and golds could no longer spawn with no mods on them.

And whether or not drops were entirely nerfed (aka, smites) is a matter of opinion it seems. Kinda odd how Anet seems strict on players' abilities to gather gold when it usefulness in this game is limited. If you wanna look pretty, you need gold. If you care about gameplay, you can be poor.

Personally I would like to see the total distruction of the 55build.

I like the way Anet are taking the game, and i don't see the AoE as a negative nerf but more as an improvement to gameplay which forced many people to look at other skill combinations.

Anet don't want to get rid of farming but make it more interesting IMO

I second the destruction of the 55 build.....

IMHO two players should never ever be able to enter the UW FOW and be successful at anything more than dying.

I agree with the moves to make the game more challenging. Nice job.

Sorry for being a noob but whats Fow?Im guessing something in Underworld :$?

FoW is not in the underworld(UW).

Fissure of Woe (FoW), is like another UW, but is has another map and other mobs. (sorry, can't tell more as I am not experienced about FoW)

hmmm i agree but dont make it too hard it whill scare some newer players away. or not it depens on what they make harder.

Oftopic: racthoh since when are you a moderator o_O /end oftopic.

the game being harder wont scare off new players, pre searing is just as easy as ever, and so is the areas of old ascalon, you dont really notice anything til northern shiverpeaks and by then they have hopefully got a strong hold of how to play the game

I must unsign the "55hp build nerf".
This build is far from being so "invincible".
Anet made farming zones and induced themselves such builds. When I see so many griffins/minotaurs in Prophet's Path, all being warriors and thus so easily counterable....
You want to nerf farming?
Just put one or two floating eyes in this bunch of griffins, when you take conjure phantasm with only 55hp, plus no more adrenalin for your bonetti's defense, plus clumsiness preventing you to attack, your lifespan is less than 1 sec with all these griffins beating you.
Or just put Jade Scarabs! Enchantment stripping + poisoning + Life steal, all that can't be stopped by the 55hp build....
If only Anets would diversify the monsters in the desert, there would be no farming... Just let all these griffins, and put 2-3 of these monsters mentionned above... It would be a lot more challenging...
Calling for a nerf of this build is nonsense, you have only to mix already-existing monsters to make it worthless...

It still seems a bit willy nilly

Why weren't henchmen improved (if so, not noticeable, and still use nerfed skills like Firestorm - and that still late lol)

Treasure chests with keys - so you stopped bots, you also stopped my wife from pretty much ever using them, isn't inventory a premium enough w/o playing match the keys? And who's buying those things anyways outside of the highest level ones (which usually dont pay off but like a long shot lottery).

Farmers - all they had to do, and the biggest abuse, is do something about protective spirit. They haven't, even though they did with protective bond.

Drops in general bite, which is why players farm (I'm against bots, fine there). GW puts things in game like the greens and the IDS you either PAY FOR or you FARM. How do you pay? Fair chance its FARMING. All from a game against FARMING.

You don't see much, period. Take lottery shots with the keys, go to the 'tougher' areas (SF,FoW,UW,now deep Mineral Springs for IDS) and repeat. Or you find a spot that you pray stays good for a bit but eventually the inevitable happens.

I am disappointed by how things drop - or rather they don't. Oh well. Really hoping the expansion freshens things up, and they remember its the fun of it all. When you've run the game through and you're not PvPing and you like to continue to use your favorite characters to still try to do some tiny optimizations here and there, or even go after the 'uber looks' (as thats all the more expensive armors are in the game for every class) and equipment 'skins', why penalize players for wanting a chance?

IMO they should have had group experience and *item drop bonuses*
Otherwise why WOULDN'T you look to do more with less with your better chances? Even in the tougher areas few want more than 3-4-5, and if they can get away with it, 1 or 2.

Heck I'll admit I did the latter solo for my IDS thanks to some suggestions from a particular warrior in this very thread. Am I farming it continuously for profit? No. Did I want a good shot at getting my one and I'm happy I have it now? Yes.

Should I have been forced to PUG it approximately *8 times I tried soloing it?
Hmm maybe I got off tangent there heh.

I understand fighting bots, but if they want to fight farming, make grouping more compelling and rewarding. A lot of other games did just that.

Because you need to consider PvP.

I'm going to totally agree with the OP ... it does make the game more challenging and fun.

For example, rangers now have a new sport that I like to call "Sand Drake Tennis" simply take ignite arrows outside elona reach, and fire away ... watch them run back and forth willy-nilly. Invite another ranger friend to stand on the other side, and bounce it back to you.

Refrence this thread for a funny video

Now if we could only get hench to run out of maelstroms ....

I personally love every nerf that comes down. I've said it once and I'll say it again...once you get comfortable with your build, forsaking all others, it's time for that build to change.

It keeps innovation in the game and keeps it evolving. IWAY was the FOM, and now it's falling off favor given its limitations. I would not be surprised to see a change or two in the basic skills that run it to weaken the "no-brainer" aspect of that team build.

When are people going to realize that Green items were put in to harness farmers, to give them something to do. Same for IDS.

They have said repeatedly that they are NOT against 'Honorable Farming' and then they gave us 2+ instances just for this. Brilliant work from Anet!

Ckaz, I could not agree more. I personally hate every new nerf that comes down. There are creative ways to fight farmers and bots that are simply not being used. ANet's present tactics are analogous to teachers keeping the whole class in after school because of the misbehaviour of a few.

Make the game more challenging? Sure. I want them to do that! But give players assets, they can use to meet the new challenges. Better henchies would be a start.

And the drops, yes they do stink. I've been playing since retail release, just leveled up a monk over the last two weeks financing him with my other characters, and I don't see how new players just starting out make enough gold to even buy armor.

Same situation in WOW. In the past month, three good friends locally started World of WarCraft, and quit because they could not make enough money to buy the weapons and armor they needed to continue on. Pretty sad.

Yes i hate when people complain oh the hench suck you can't do anything, its to hard to get here or there. I want this game to be hard, the more challenge the better.

Make it rewarding then, challenge is nothing without rewards.

people that want to get rid of 55hp build are greedy w/ farmers that are angry that there is in fact something they are not able to do. this being the case, create and play a monk yourself, get to ToA and try to survive alone in UW. it is hard as hell these days, good drops there are rare and it's very time consuming. long story short - playing a 55hp monk in UW is not any different from any other places, it's just a whole different approach.

whining about 55hp monks is the same as whining about iway. and we all know that iway is far worse than invincimonks.

I have a 55 Monk and I just don't ever use it for UW Farming because I'm not the grinding kind of guy, it bores me to death. Sure, it helped get stuff I wanted but now with everything unlocked there's no much point in farming.

I've said it already and I'll say it again, if you wanna counter the 55 Monk add a level 24-25 monster with a double Vampiric Touch. GG monk

Just one VT should be enough, shouldn't it?

Lets face it -- most gamers are average gamers. Make it too hard for them, and there goes the customer base, and with it the game. It's not like a FPS where you can set difficulty level or kick it into god mode to get past a really tough spot. A-net can't please everybody, but if they are watching the bottom line, which I'm sure they are, they have to please as many as they can.

Any mesmer or necro really, in random arenas, alot of the time the enemy monk will quit as soon as they see a mes or necro on our team because anything other than brute force > them. Of course, I bring enchant strip just to punish them for trying to waste our time ^_^

I gotta say that I love the henchmen fix.

I thought it was lame that henchies and monsters would just hang out in a AoE spell. Honestly, unless you are a moron, no one sits in an AoE for the duration of it!

I also found that AoE's have a new role when fighting monsters (similar to what their role can be in PvP), you can fire off an AoE to keep monsters away from a soft target. I find that with my monk, AoE's keep me from getting killed much, much better than they did in the past. Monsters run away from me and leave me alone. I also love that my henchie partners don't hang out and die in an AoE, makes the game less stressful when they are doing what they are supposed to do.

I say keep the more intelligent monsters and henchies coming. As for the nerfs on "special" builds, they can do whatever. No matter what they do people will come up with another invinci-something build. I don't have an invinci-anything character (although sometimes I wish I did), but that's mostly because I don't want to take the time to figure one out or waste the money making one that someone else has figured out.

I love playing this game, and it has only gotten better since I started.

finally more poeple want this game to get harder instead of whining about how they can't make easy money or finish the game fast. funny thing is, if people get that money and/or finish the game they start complaining about nothing to do while before finishing the game they were whining how its too hard to finish.

destroy the 55 builds! 500 builds FTW!

I think that A.Net should nerf the gear/book/keg trick.

It makes things too boring and easy, and I can't see why all of the enemies should change from the normal pattern to attack the party member who is holding an item!!!

I have a couple of opinions on this topic. I like to fight AI that's going to try to give me a run for its money and think it's great that arenanet have been making changes.

Particularly I agree with those that say the 55 build should be finally fixed. I don't care about what mechanism they use to do this (a skill ajustment or mixed monster types - something tougher than dying nightmares) but it would be a pity to cripple protective spirit for 'normal', that is to say, a protector's use. I base this on the absurd number of 55 monks in the euro districts apparently 24 hours a day - and i'm talking about ToA as well as Augury and it's quite ridiculous to allow such one dimensional play. I'm no stranger to farming but this build is skewed. For the record I've had a level 20 monk for some months, but never felt it necessary to make a 55hp build. It's worth saying that at the time I bought it, superior healing cost 24k. These 55hp monks may play by themselves but they are in such numbers it affects the game economy, and therefore, everyone else.

That rant concluded I have one more, against "keg" tricking in sorrow's furnace. This may be just be me but I find this outrageously dull. I'll never go down there as my warrior now, as that's what I'd have to do to get into a team - no thanks. As far as I can see, it facilitates groups of 5 with players who could never dream of going around without exploiting this, which naturally explains its popularity and all because it lets bad tanks get agro no matter what. I think I could make a case that it produces bad (insert caster class here) too because they run around like they're immortal, as they get used to not taking damage. I find this combination no fun playing with no matter what class I myself use. Though SF being SF, I'd be waiting a long time if I were to ever try with mesmer. This change mostly became popular around start of december if I'm not mistaken and it's a pity as now there's nowhere fun and rewarding to go when there's no favour.

I like that arenanet have made fixes like the "AoE nerf" and adding some wimpy nightmares. But from my perspective, it looks like they're not keeping pace.

I'm not sure what you're all talking about with improved AI. Mobs were given AoE detection, which didn't make them smarter. They'll also run away from you even if they're at full health and you're about to die if you trigger one, so when you consider they take quite a beating the patch made them even more stupid.

If you found it a challenge, it's because somebody in your group decided to break agro away from the tanks on to the soft targets. It's a player mistake, not an improvement to AI.

Nerfing the 55 isn't the answer, its a great build. The mares never where intended to stop it either, just give its a bit of randomness to give bots a harder time. But I'm not opposed to wiping the spawns in UW for a few days and coming up with a whole new spawn so we can spend a few weeks to find another great build.

As for FoW and it being harder. Far as I know, nothing leaves aggro unless the players cause it. Therefore its you're party that is making things harder, not Anet.

Book/Gear trick should be fixed.

Make the game harder, a lot harder. Just boring now, especially with GvG locked.

this game is too easy. although im tired of hearing people whinning and crying about the 55 build. big deal. it dont have to be "nerfed" 1) because you cant afford to start this build 2) you dont have the skills to do it 3) you are to impatient to do it 4) we have all the ecto and you dont. by being a 55 build i got all my materials for my full fow armor in less than 2 weeks. the whole solo deal isnt gonna stop with an update. its just like a cracker, it will take a couple of days but the new update/program will be dealt with fast and easily

i love this too.

have you ever played runescape?
they have so many complaints that its "hard" to do things, so they make it easier for them.
honestly, its bullshit, and it pisses me off.
if you dont know how to play the game for real, you shouldnt be playing at all. I quit because that game pissed me off so much.


Im not sure whether Anet made the game itself harder. they just make monster AI more intelligent to match our playing skill.

Yet, they haven't...

If you're referring to the 'AI improvement' patch, it was to make farming more difficult. It hit elementalists so hard because they didn't even stop to think about the actual design of many skills or how it could be exploited to make mobs flee in terror for 1 point of damage per second.

They called it AI improvement, and you believed them.

look, you definitely do not need an IDS to be successful in pvp or pve. any casual player (the type they marketed to) can buy a sword from drok's, which is what i did. u definitely do NOT have to farm to get to drok's, just play the game through.

as someone said before all you need is a monk to cast mending on you...

It isn't because of any of that...I actually have all I need to make a 55 build but can't seem to force myself into being that desperate to make more money/FoW armor. under 3 days and my lvl 13 pre searing monk could be ascended with all runes that silly -50 focus and an Hod...if I can get one for around 300k(not pay 450k+ for the damn thing).

this is what's annoying...why should you have what many idi...*cough* people consider the best armor in the game with so little effort. It should mean something more then just some bots running all night for a couple weeks..because if all you did for those 2 weeks is farm for ecto you might as well be a bot.

Why should loyal players be punished with nerfs because of bots? Hmmmm?

How is having to actually play the game as intended instead of repeatedly going into the same area alone for the sole purpose of getting more wealth a punishment. That's like joining track and saying that having to run the whole 440 instead of cutting accross field is punishing you.

What benefit do you bring to the gaming community as a whole in GW if all you do is solo farm UW? If anything your a detrement...in numerous ways I won't waste my time repeating.

woot made councillor...

I have similar complaints with GW. I spent my first two retail months building my W/Mo up as a sword-warrior, finally get my last piece of Drok's armor, then get to enjoy it for a VERY short time before they nerf the sword-warrior. Why was it nerfed? PvP complaints! Thing is, I now suffer in PvE and NEVER play PvP because I don't enjoy it. Couple of months down the tube.

The AoE nerf initially sucked and does to an extent, but it is partially manageable now. At least they take two or three hits before running. I think maybe the radius of the AoE spells should be enlarged a little to compensate, so that the area affected is a tad larger and those that run the second the spell goes off will take two or three hits.

I am sick of the drop-nerfs that apparently take place on a weekly basis. You know it's been over three months since I got a dye drop?! My first one in three months was last night, and it was a crappy yellow dye. I also rarely see any drops worth a damn. I shouldn't have to go to RoF just to get a weapon that does OK in Augury. I'd also like to get a dye at LEAST once a day.

I am also a firm believer that the reason you're seeing more smite-monks with the 55hp build is because the devs have nerfed every other build to the extreme. I miss being able to solo with my warrior. I myself am taking time building a smite-monk simply so I CAN play the game again. You have to remember that not everybody plays the game all day every day, and people like me MIGHT get 4~8hrs a week in. If we need some fast cash for something, that means farming for a while.

I also find it HIGHLY enraging to come across a monster that can do 150+ damage every hit (yes, with Drok's armor and max level) and the devs didn't use it as a boss, but put six to eight in a freaking group! The game is too damned hard when the only way to clear an area is to fight to the death repeatedly.

I feel that the game is WAY too biased on deaths. You have to kill five bosses, that's five big bad-asses to get a measly +10% boost, but then you lag or just screw-up and you not only lose it all, but also go into the negative five percent?! The game is WAY too unforgiving in that aspect. If four deaths mean -60%dp, then four bosses should be +20% or so.

I don't think it's fair to continue to nerf builds based on PvP complaints and make those of us who prefer the PvE experience suffer. The most ideal setup for each class was at initial release. Everything was balanced. Warriors could easily meet ther end by a good elementalist or mesmer, and likewise if thsoe two let him in close, they'd be dead fast. Now warrios are weak as hell unless you're a hammer-warrior and nothing has been done to counter this with the other classes.

While using a farm-bot should be punished, I don't think you should be punished for farming legit. If I need 100plat and choose to farm hydras until my eyes fall out, why shouldn't I be able to? I am not here to disrupt the market, I want some armor or something, that's all.

I am sick and damned tired of being forced down a one-way street. This is an MMORPG correct? Then why am I not allowed to role-play?! I wanted to be a warrior so they nerfed warriors. If I want to farm for materials or gold, why shouldn't I be able to? If I want to do PvE only, why should PvP changes screw me up? If I want to solo or only party with a single friend or two, why should I be forced to be a monk with the 55hp build? And even though I am against it, if I want to run somebody somewhere so they don't have to do a part of the game, why shouldn't I be allowed to?

ArenaNet has FORCED me into doing a smite-monk 55hp build simply because it's the ONLY build that caters to my style of play. Yes I used to love elementalists and warriors, but I can't play how I like with them. They need to stop changing the damned game, revert the warrior to be the most powerful class as he should be (he has to get in close to do this damage for Christ's sake!) and fix it so those of us who only play on weekends can actually play the game, especially if our friends are not on. I personally hate what the game is becoming right now and I am furious just thinking about it. ANet has earned nothing but hatred and anger from me since they started nerfing things.

*EDIT*

That is the dumbest god-dang comment I have ever heard and it is ANet's thinking. That is what is ruining this game. It's the attitude that the game should be played "this way" or "that way". Sorry for the language here, but F*CK THAT! If you're supposed to do only one thing, then they need to stop advertising this as an MMORPG. If you can't role-play, it isn't an MMORPG.

*EDIT2*

One thing I left out. The game is VERY unrewarding as hard as it is. You rarely get any really good drops, dye almost never drops, and even if you explore the farthest reaches of the maps, you get NOTHING for it. That's total BS! If I spend three hours exploring some far-out place, what's wrong with a random high-end drop? Not a specific item, or at a specific place in that far-out area, just a random item that is high-level for the area. Like, how about a Kryta-level drop out in Dragon's Gullet (or whatever it is behind the place you get Althea's Ashes)? I found that area and cleared it once all pumped about getting a good drop, and I got JACK-$HIT for my wasted time. Hell when you kill a hard mob or do a hard mission, why not a special high-level drop or something? The game just does NOT reward you.