Shadow Form Nerf (against pvp usage) - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

28 Apr 2008 at 11:29 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by graverobber2

PS: does [rending touch] work against [shadow form]?
i know rending touch is a spell, but it's also a touch skill

Nope, it's a spell. Not a touch skill. It's range is touch, but it's still a skill.

Use Shock, AoE on their healers (they have them, do they? if not, spike their ghostly and heal out damage they try to deal) and a mesmer with signet(s). Wards, well of profane, touchers ;d and that's it. I've met once team with 6 a/me, pretty stupid game. Kill their monks, try to knockdown assassin/interrupt him with a non-attack and non-spell skill and that's it, rinse and repeat. Or kill monks, kill ghostly and wait till the time ends. Boom, free fame ;o

Quote:

Despite it's seeming appearance as a touch skill, this skill is a spell and will not remove enchantments such as Spell Breaker, Obsidian Flesh and Shadow Form.

Wiki'd.

Lol I hate doubleposts, delete my first one plx?

legion_rat

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

668 the neighbor of the beast

TFK

A/

28 Apr 2008 at 12:04 - 42

/not signed

I could stoop to telling you "learn to play" but everyone else beat me to it. There are plenty of ways through shadow form. find one or two and use them.

~the rat~

moko

??uo??o??

Join Date: May 2006

28 Apr 2008 at 13:25 - 43

make it a pve only skill. :>

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

28 Apr 2008 at 13:30 - 44

Next time, mod your ritspike and bring a rt/e with Leech Signet or Shock.

I myself have faced the same problem. (Running ritspike and facing Perma SF) Yet I havn't cried about it, because I know the ONLY reason why I can't beat it, is due to the limitations of my build.
The ONLY reason why it is causing grief to you, it because you running nothing more than a cookie-cutter gimmick. If you were to run balanced, you wouldn't face the problem, because most balanced teams have direct/indirect counters. (Direct = Shock, Signets, ... Indirect=PBAoE such as Frozen Burst, Flame Djinss Haste, Arage, ...)

English Warrior

LEET HAXXOR!

Join Date: Feb 2007

Random Arena

N/A

28 Apr 2008 at 14:08 - 45

any1 thought of signet of disenchantment or flame djinns haste guys any adjacent spells hurt him, don't nerf just because the OP got tanked and he thinks its overpowered this has been arisen many times.

RotteN

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

W/

28 Apr 2008 at 14:19 - 46

[[leech signet] can't be that hard to fit in a build, it's not like an interupt is ever useless against any build.

Gregslot

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Me/

28 Apr 2008 at 14:59 - 47

Get REAL!!! Shadow Form isnt powerful!

Lets nerf Orison of Healing too! Duh!

RhanoctJocosa

Legendary Korean

Join Date: Aug 2006

The Benecia Renovatio [RenO]

W/

28 Apr 2008 at 15:27 - 48

...

Expunge Enchantments you failures

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

28 Apr 2008 at 15:30 - 49

Expunge? It's some kind of sick joke, right?

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

28 Apr 2008 at 15:56 - 50

In HA, 1 fame isn't much. Just /resign.
They would lose on any tactical map, and that's a fact.

In TA...okay you've got me stumped, /signed if they are swarming TA too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

Get REAL!!! Shadow Form isnt powerful!

Lets nerf Orison of Healing too! Duh!

It's because it's being used for griefing.

Sir Pandra Pierva

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Sardelec yelling at Tenshi

Angels Of Strife

E/

28 Apr 2008 at 19:48 - 51

even in TA its not hard to pack 1 KD that can go through SF. or someone with something that can go through it. Even if the monk has to go /me for leech sig or sig of disruption.

Sethellington

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

nn

N/

29 Apr 2008 at 13:47 - 52

if it's disabled for 120...60 then it won't matter anyway. no one uses SF with low shadow arts so it'll have the same recharge in the end.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

29 Apr 2008 at 15:16 - 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sethellington

if it's disabled for 120...60 then it won't matter anyway. no one uses SF with low shadow arts so it'll have the same recharge in the end.

That won't stop the griefers, as they usually run 12+3+1 Shadow Arts.

lordheinous

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2007

29 Apr 2008 at 16:51 - 54

Omg, this thread is still alive? Just let it die the slow, pitiful death it deserves. There aren't many of these griefers out there, and if there were, as was previously stated in this thread, changing ONE skill in your ENTIRE team build would be sufficient to take care of the problem.

DarkGanni

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

Malta

[CuTe]

E/

29 Apr 2008 at 17:04 - 55

Bawwwwwww I can't kill the sin for my 1 fame. Please grow up a bit.

1. It's a game.
2. It's only 1 fame you're better off restarting.
3. Grow up and stop crying for nerfs just because you cant counter a build.
4. /notsigned

- Ganni

Ctb

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

W/

29 Apr 2008 at 17:16 - 56

Since most of this thread seems to have been written by nine year olds having temper tantrums, my only input is that SA is amazingly annoying in RA because there's no sense in building against it as you'll be sacrificing actual, useful skills, but not building against it is an instant loss when you come up against one of these nubkins as a caster if your RA team doesn't get a half competent monk assigned to it.

Not that this abuse justifies a nerf, I'm just saying. It's really annoying and is basically only used to grief outside of PvE.

Ele Mental

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2007

Underworld, being farmed for ecto by r3s

In Soviet Russia Servers Hate [You]

W/E

29 Apr 2008 at 17:21 - 57

/signed

12 chars

Maccarelly

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2008

Aura of Revolution [Aura]

R/

29 Apr 2008 at 17:26 - 58

If there are so many perma sins around...take something to counter them.

Disenchantment (rit skill)

Signets, touch skills, traps and 'skills' are all effective against SF.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

29 Apr 2008 at 19:37 - 59

At all the people saying "Counter it" --
Signet of Disenchantment kills your energy, therefore bad and useless against anything else. Not to mention it gives absolutely no positive effects and has a 15 second recharge.

Disenchantment is 25 energy, it's in Communing (Meh, spirits die FAR too easily), it also dies quickly and is immobile unless you bring Draw Spirit which is also bad.

Not everyone runs trap pressure, signets, and normal skills as there are better options and just because there are a few griefers, you shouldn't have to change bars JUST for that moment wasting bar space for more *serious* matters.

lordheinous

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2007

29 Apr 2008 at 19:39 - 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ele Mental

/signed

12 chars

lolol

The sin is only level 16.

btw, you're supposed to cover the names unless you get the permission of the people who are in the picture.

Sir Pandra Pierva

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Sardelec yelling at Tenshi

Angels Of Strife

E/

29 Apr 2008 at 20:17 - 61

there is no reason to hit shadow form cause someone can't bring some kinda interupt for it.

sig interupts are always good.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

29 Apr 2008 at 20:25 - 62

'Cause they're realy going to run into the enemy then enchant up?
Deadly Paradox makes it alot harder to hit, and sig interrupts cast at . seconds.

Although they will fail on a more strategic map, 1 fame isn't worth much.
But you shouldn't have to /resign just because of someone trying to take the piss.

I Is Special

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

NJ

To Gain Extra Mobility We Play [NUDE]

W/

29 Apr 2008 at 20:30 - 63

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

'Cause they're realy going to run into the enemy then enchant up?
Deadly Paradox makes it alot harder to hit, and sig interrupts cast at . seconds.

Although they will fail on a more strategic map, 1 fame isn't worth much.
But you shouldn't have to /resign just because of someone trying to take the piss.

Well, it's either /resign or don't suck and bring a counter. You choose.

lordheinous

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2007

29 Apr 2008 at 20:31 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

'Cause they're realy going to run into the enemy then enchant up?
Deadly Paradox makes it alot harder to hit, and sig interrupts cast at . seconds.

Because you couldn't interrupt arcane echo, which takes 2 seconds to cast and which must be recast about every 40 seconds, or the arcane echoed sf, which they probably aren't using deadly paradox on?

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

29 Apr 2008 at 20:33 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Is Special

Well, it's either /resign or don't suck and bring a counter. You choose.

Bar space gets tight, and you shouldn't be bringing counters specifically for this build to sort it out by wasting bar space.

Read my post on the other page for a more detailed explanation.

So it's either: Suck or bring a skill sucky against everything else by your logic.

@Lordheinous -- Read it again. If someone is going to be using that build they wouldn't run in THEN cast.
How stupid do you think these people are?

(And it's still 100% maintainable FYI)

Horus Moonlight

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Me/Mo

29 Apr 2008 at 21:06 - 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

@Lordheinous -- Read it again. If someone is going to be using that build they wouldn't run in THEN cast.
How stupid do you think these people are?

(And it's still 100% maintainable FYI)

It doesn't matter if they come in with SF already up. They WILL have to cast arcane echo sometime to upkeep SF indefinitely. That is when you disrupt it.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

29 Apr 2008 at 21:09 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horus Moonlight

It doesn't matter if they come in with SF already up. They WILL have to cast arcane echo sometime to upkeep SF indefinitely. That is when you disrupt it.

Ya because you can cast through Shadow Form...
And if you're talking about Leech Signet, it's bad aswell.

lordheinous

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2007

29 Apr 2008 at 21:40 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Ya because you can cast through Shadow Form...
And if you're talking about Leech Signet, it's bad aswell.

?????

I don't even know wtf you're trying to say. Do you even know what shadow form does lol? Here it is [Shadow Form]. I think the term "perma sf" might just have you a LITTLE bit confused, so I'll straighten it out for you: it isn't that youjust cast shadow form and it somehow magically remains up until the end of time; you start off by casting [Arcane Echo] and using [Deadly Paradox] sometime before arcane echo finishes casting, then immediately cast [Shadow Form]. You then try to cast the echoed shadow form as close to but not after the 19 second mark after casting the original shadow form. Arcane Echo will revert at the 20 second mark and begin to recharge. When it has recharged, you cast arcane echo again, again using deadly paradox before it finishes casting, then immediately following with shadow form. You continue to go through the cycle for as long as you want to keep shadow form up.

I hope that made it clear enough for you to understand lol. Seriously though, I don't think that someone who thought that "perma sf" was really some sort of insta-pwn thing that was cast once really should be participating in this discussion

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

29 Apr 2008 at 21:44 - 69

Uh...what?
People usually run Perma-SF with a superior rune, and with a superior rune, it's 21 seconds duration excluding the 20% enchantment weapon.
It's OBVIOUS you're using Deadly Paradox and Arcane Echo.

And I didn't even say once that it makes you invinicible and it stays up all the time as a fire and forget that requires no timing whatsoever.

First you are telling me "Interrupt it lol" then you are telling me how it works when I know that Shadow Form already stops spells from effecting you.
And all means of countering it are either: Bad against everything else, or sub-par compared to a skill that does roughly the same effect.

Growling Octopus

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

No Soup For You

R/

29 Apr 2008 at 21:52 - 70

Just add a nerf to it like ... "When this skill ends, all of your skills are disabled for 5 seconds" or something ... then people could use it legitimately, but would have to have a window for stuff like what you're talking about in HA. Another option is to make shadow form fail if you're already enchanted with it, or make it like shadow walk where you cant use enchantments while enchanted with it.

NecroticChanter

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2007

Toronto

Real Eyes Realize Real Lies[Tree]

P/

29 Apr 2008 at 21:54 - 71

Shadow Form doesn't need a nerf....chillbains, sig of disenchantment, expunge enchantments..they all strip SF...besides u are practically dead once u get out of SF with that massive HP loss...

Marverick

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

R/

29 Apr 2008 at 21:55 - 72

Why don't we do:
[skill]Rending Touch[/skill] make this a SKILL instead of a spell

The change won't be very drastic except that it provides one very effective way of screwing over SF'ers with a skill that isn't inherently useless

Risus

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2007

56min UW HM post-2/25 I win

FDR

A/

29 Apr 2008 at 22:00 - 73

stop QQ'ing you can wait 20 secs can't you? Otherwise BRING A TOUCHER or something

lordheinous

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2007

29 Apr 2008 at 22:00 - 74

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Uh...what?
People usually run Perma-SF with a superior rune, and with a superior rune, it's 21 seconds duration excluding the 20% enchantment weapon.
It's OBVIOUS you're using Deadly Paradox and Arcane Echo.

And I didn't even say once that it makes you invinicible and it stays up all the time as a fire and forget that requires no timing whatsoever.

First you are telling me "Interrupt it lol" then you are telling me how it works when I know that Shadow Form already stops spells from effecting you.
And all means of countering it are either: Bad against everything else, or sub-par compared to a skill that does roughly the same effect.

Lol

First off, if they weren't using a sup rune+headpiece+enchanting weapon, it wouldn't work, because you need it to be up for at least 22.7 seconds, and that's assuming absolute timing perfection with the echoed sf, which is very hard to do.

Second off, you clearly didn't know how it worked, because you were saying that if they cast it before the fight, you had no way to interrupt it, which obviously isn't true, as you have to be casting it in a cycle to keep it up. Of course, it could be perhaps that you're problem is more basic, and you don't realize that [Leech Signet] is a signet, though I would think the name is a dead give away. Or perhaps you are even more confused, and think that signets=spells

?

Finally, most of the "counters" are things that most builds run anyway, and that even if you're not, you could easily adapt one untargeted/non-spell skill into your team build that with an equivalent or at least similar effect.

Food

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2008

in america

Team Flawless [oRLy]

Mo/E

29 Apr 2008 at 22:06 - 75

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

...

Expunge Enchantments you failures

Exactly.

I also don't really remember seeing Shadow Form sins skipping around in TA or HA... Hmm...

Horus Moonlight

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Me/Mo

29 Apr 2008 at 23:31 - 76

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Ya because you can cast through Shadow Form...
And if you're talking about Leech Signet, it's bad aswell.

You have to be kidding...

There are 3 freaking pages that discuss various forms of disruptions that go through SF, many of them being viable.

If you're going to use sarcasm, at least make sure you know what you are talking about.

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

30 Apr 2008 at 08:09 - 77

Just make SF a PvE-only skill.

The only purpose a skill like Form can ever have in PvP is as a griefing spell, and teams shouldn't be forced to bring bad skills to counter griefers.
SF has no place in PvP. Everyone can agree on that... Unless you like griefing, in which case stfu, gtfo and go die somewhere kthx.

Make SF PvE-only, so the carebears are happy, the PvPers are happy, and the griefers cry their eyes out. Everybody wins.

(edit: to the guys trolling Tyla, really.... can you explain to me honestly why a stalling skill like SF should exist in a game like GW? And none of that 'lern2counter nub' crap, if you would be so kind)

Surena

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2007

N/Me

30 Apr 2008 at 08:13 - 78

Such invincibility mechanics (even if temporary) are always bad for ANY game.

Resident

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2007

Hungary

Pirates Love Triviality [HARR]

Rt/Mo

30 Apr 2008 at 09:29 - 79

Blah... BS.
Whoever plays perma Shadow Form assa in pvp is obviously a noob or just trying to have fun cause it's not effective at all.
RA: So many R/D nowadays. Rendering Touch FTW.
AB: Ping him to a Mesmer.
TA: Are you kidding?
HA: Are you really kidding me?

Why would you nerf it? No point in it.

N1ghtstalker

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2007

E/

30 Apr 2008 at 10:18 - 80

djeez there are so many counters against sf you don't need to nerf it ^.~
SF stops spells and attacks that's it
you can still:

-touch him
-aoe damage him with something like[flame burst]

and then still
you can just kite him and when it wears of he's open for the kill

SF is a good skill for PvE usage but that's it ^.~