Has UB only really changed the prejudice? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Nightow

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Kindred Order of Souls [KOS]

07 May 2008 at 21:40 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardt

But UB isn't breaking through that mentality! Letting a mesmer play a mesmer is breaking through it, not letting a mesmer play as a bear (just to pick on mesmer's a bit :P). The only thing UB supports is laziness in terms of making builds.

Ok, maybe break through was not the best term to use, more like bypass. What I'm trying to say is that although it does not allow a player to play their profession, it allows them to play as their main character, regardless of profession. If Johnny wants/needs to pug mission xyz, he might have to make a sacrifice of not playing his profession in the way it was meant to be but rather to change into something else.

Richardt

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

http://friendsofloa.com/forum

Leader-Legion of Avalon [LoA] Alliance-Recruiting PM for info!

07 May 2008 at 21:48 - 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

Ok, maybe break through was not the best term to use, more like bypass. What I'm trying to say is that although it does not allow a player to play their profession, it allows them to play as their main character, regardless of profession. If Johnny wants/needs to pug mission xyz, he might have to make a sacrifice of not playing his profession in the way it was meant to be but rather to change into something else.

Thanks for clearing that up

Just to be a pain, I'm going to pull out the guild/alliance card:

If Johnny needs mission xyz and can't get a group do to the PuG mentallity, then why doesn't Johnny call on his guild/alliance? I mean, that's what Guild/Alliance mates are for. And if a group can't be found-you always got Heroes and Henchies-unless you're one of the really new people and only have either Prophecies and Factions-in which case you're playing your class the way it's supposed to be played.

Saying you need UB to get into a group is a crutch.

Cathode_Reborn

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

07 May 2008 at 21:52 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by zamial

Before UB and cons people ran the trinity build. If an ele at the Gloom cave stepped up to far, or did not back up, or messed up just 1 time, party wipe.
same goes for any area there. How many times has a foundry group spent hours just to have 1 ele bring the wrong glyph and fail or party wipe? The endless yelling at each other and the death of fun. Not to mention it took an HOUR to get a group that may or may not make it.

This flaw is just horrible design on Anet's part. Ursan fixed it partially by making it so overpowered that bad aggro couldn't stop the team. The real solution should've been fixing "elite" areas like DoA so they arn't ridiculously designed. The cave at Gloom is a perfect example of how idiotic elite missions are: they can't provide a real challenge by using enemies with good AI and fully-viable 8skill bars....it's just easier to take advantage of the people's ignorance and punish them with masses of lvl28+ monsters after they make one small mistake.

The 50% miss there in HM is a very good joke too.....nice way to discourage the use of melee/attacking classes and encourage the use of other braindead methods to win.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

Right, you and every one else has proved their point on how OP'ed Ursan is but the fact still remains that the old pug mentality was deeply flawed as well. Yes, guilds are a partial answer but you're still limiting yourself to a certain group of people. Some people either don't have access to that or are looking for a wider range of fellow team mates.

I also blame Anet for this. The "tutorial" areas of all 3 chapters are shit - they teach newer players nothing. I've always wondered why Anet hasn't ever taken the time to provide good viable builds for each class ingame. What's needed is a real tutorial/training area for players. "Newer" players arn't even the only ones that need it....the way this game was created, you can play for ages and still be a bad player getting away with horrible builds. Then, as soon as that player decides to do an "elite" area, they know absolutely nothing and never make it into groups.

The quick easy solution: Ursan. With GW2 on the way I'm sure it's saved them lots of time.

Nightow

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Kindred Order of Souls [KOS]

07 May 2008 at 21:57 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardt

Thanks for clearing that up

Just to be a pain, I'm going to pull out the guild/alliance card:

If Johnny needs mission xyz and can't get a group do to the PuG mentallity, then why doesn't Johnny call on his guild/alliance? I mean, that's what Guild/Alliance mates are for. And if a group can't be found-you always got Heroes and Henchies-unless you're one of the really new people and only have either Prophecies and Factions-in which case you're playing your class the way it's supposed to be played.

Ok, using personal examples this time...

A few weeks ago, our guild tried to get a group together for The Deep. We all logged onto our main characters since just about everybody needed the darn statue. However, once everybody logged onto their main characters, we soon realized just how many actually had Cavalon mapped on their mains. Ended up being about half of us actually had it...

Embarrassing and maybe not too common perhaps but it can and does occur. Now if I really wanted to, I could have just simply loaded up my ursan build and joined an Ursan pug for The Deep but instead we worked a bit that night to try to get people as close to Cavalon as we could before calling it a night.

In the case of heroes, yeah... I'm sure a lot of people here reading this are good at using heroes, micromanaging them but not everyone can. I admit that I include myself in the latter part of that, even though I have played the game for two and a half years now.

Axel Zinfandel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

Northeastern Ohio

LaZy

P/W

07 May 2008 at 22:11 - 45

Personally, you cannot escape elitism in online games, and double for MMOs. It's always going to be there, and if it isn't, that means everything is equal, and that's be just plain boring.

Even if all classes were created equal and there were no godmode builds, there is still the prestige of high class armor and weapons. If we didn't have that, then there'd be no satisfaction left in the game. (said with PvE in mind. PvP is a different story.)

It's hard to create a game with a minimum/no ammount of grind and still make the game satisfying to play after you reach the maximum level. It's something that hasn't truly been done in MMOs (That I know of, anyway), and I think ArenaNet has been been doing a better job then we give them credit for sometimes.

Red Sonya

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

07 May 2008 at 22:23 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetalMan

The thing i want people who hate ursan to understand is...

Once ursan goes, you go back to the trinity/very certain builds.

And i struggle to see how button mashing ursan changes much from button mashing tank/nuker.

Your either mashing buttons for an ursan or mashing buttons for a nuker/war/whatever build you happen to run.

Ursan is just a quicker way of button mashing.

I agree with this, you are going to either bow to one form of playing or another and we all remember the other way wasn't fun either. At least with Ursans everyone CAN get on the bandwagon. Everyone can play in every area and this was the cries of the many (mesmers, rangers, assassins, paragons, dervishers) before. I hope they never change Ursans and those that want to play holy trinity builds just find themselves a guild or a group of players dedicated to playing that way daily. Shouldn't be hard to do just advertise online at one of these forums I'm sure you'll get many replies as there just seems to be soooooooooooo many that hate Ursans.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

07 May 2008 at 22:25 - 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

Personally, you cannot escape elitism in online games, and double for MMOs. It's always going to be there, and if it isn't, that means everything is equal, and that's be just plain boring.

Agreed, in a way, but that is, and will always be the majority playerbase's mentality.

StormDragonZ

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2008

New York

W/R

07 May 2008 at 22:32 - 48

I don't use Ursan.

Why? Simple really:
Testing my limits with what I can do and cannot.
Why bother owning everything when it does nothing but let the bored become even more bored with lackluster "challenge" awaiting them?

Quote:

The quick easy solution: Ursan. With GW2 on the way I'm sure it's saved them lots of time.

I never thought of it that way. Now a light has shined on me to further a reason to be lacking in care about GW2.

Molock

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Qu??bec

Legacy of Angels [Halo]

E/

07 May 2008 at 22:36 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bytor

No argument there, a mez isn't highly desired ala monks or nukers, but I never was told to bugger off for being a mez either.

I always advertised for rits, paragon, mesmers

Anyway Ursan users (for the most part) are more elitist than the silly tank & spank groups we used to have! At least in those you could have a mesmer, rit or whatever.. sure it wasn't common but my groups always accepted them

In an ursan group, you are either ursan or hb monk.. thats it. Awesome variety!

englitdaudelin

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

East Coast

Soldier's Union [SU]

N/Me

07 May 2008 at 22:40 - 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earth

Anyway, Ursan increased discrimination. Before Ursan, you could still get into pugs with your mesmer etc. Now, everyone uses Ursan (because of the hard time getting into pugs with underrated classes) so you're pretty much forced to use it. If you want to pug.

The other night, some guildmates and I were doing a HM Mission in Kryta. Normally we prefer to run the typical Ursan setup: in this case, 4 ursan, and 2 monks. But a loyal guildie had no Ursan who had any access to that mission. So, he brought along a splinter ranger, and lo, it worked as well--or better--than the straight Ursan action.
We let the ursans control aggro, and then he blasted away.

My point, elliptically: an open-minded group might just be willing to take one of our formerly snubbed classes, even if NOT an Ursan--because jeez, who the heck needs that many bears anyway?

But to answer the OP, sure, the elitism has really always been there (as a ranger or rit in DoA, as a healing rit trying to explain that I was AT LEAST as good as a monk, as a mesmer, as a friend of assassins everywhere; I've seen this, been the victim, been the victimizer, etc...). It's moved somewhat, to the rank system...but some it HAS faded, because people realize that one R10 Ursan might well compensate for one R6 (or 5, or 2, or not at all).

Richardt

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

http://friendsofloa.com/forum

Leader-Legion of Avalon [LoA] Alliance-Recruiting PM for info!

07 May 2008 at 22:45 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

Embarrassing and maybe not too common perhaps but it can and does occur. Now if I really wanted to, I could have just simply loaded up my ursan build and joined an Ursan pug for The Deep but instead we worked a bit that night to try to get people as close to Cavalon as we could before calling it a night.

We've been there lol.

Quote:

In the case of heroes, yeah... I'm sure a lot of people here reading this are good at using heroes, micromanaging them but not everyone can. I admit that I include myself in the latter part of that, even though I have played the game for two and a half years now.

If I could micro better, I'd give Hero Battles a shot

.

There are alot of great, if not out right excellent, hero builds that require little to no microing.

hurric

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

BC

07 May 2008 at 22:55 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetalMan

Once ursan goes, you go back to the trinity/very certain builds.

And i struggle to see how button mashing ursan changes much from button mashing tank/nuker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

. Everyone can play in every area and this was the cries of the many (mesmers, rangers, assassins, paragons, dervishers) before. I hope they never change Ursans and those that want to play holy trinity builds just find themselves a guild or a group

I think you hit the nail on the head. but I 100% disagree. Most people think if there's no ursan, they can't do any elite areas which simply is not the case. All professions mesmers/assassins/paras can do all those areas. The speed of ursan may be faster but seeing the fastest elite times, non ursan is just as fast. it's just that people don't even try or want to do non ursan.We cleared uw with assassins in our group uw with sins. The biggest proof is in fastest time elite thread.

I see elitism in ursan groups where they REQUIRE r10 ursan. I have r9 and refuse to max it but have been rejected from groups before. elitism is there.

only area i see acceptable for ursan is doa because it makes it extremely faster.

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

07 May 2008 at 22:59 - 53

Yes.

Guys in my alliance without Ursan because they don't own GW:EN can't get into PUG groups for anything anymore.

Ursan may let "professions that never get in" go somewhere, but it doesn't matter people people have multiple characters/professions. Can't get into Urgoz with your mesmer? So... make/use a ranger. Furthermore, playing a mesmer or a sin etc as an ursan defeats the point of playing one. You aren't actually a mesmer if you are running Ursan. You're a warrior.

Thizzle

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2008

07 May 2008 at 23:00 - 54

I think it was created for the professions that got screwed. The only time a ranger is useful in DoA is for trapping. Assassins are basically dead on start and mesmers are in the same category. The skill has good and bad sides, but if you think about it the good outweighs the bad because this skill has changed the economy so that people other than 600/Smite monks and other solo and dual builds can get Obsidian armor and other high end things. There's a lot of people that hate this skill because of what it did to Ectos, Shards, and other valuable items.

You can H/H almost all of NM and it's not usuable in PvP. I don't think it's that big of a deal that this skill was made. It also speeds up boring things like vanquishing and helps you clear elite mission areas quicker. I mean if you know you have beat them before and know you can do them then why not use Ursan? It's logically better.

Randvek

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Rise From the Ashes [phnx]

W/

07 May 2008 at 23:01 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurric

I think you hit the nail on the head. but I 100% disagree. Most people think if there's no ursan, they can't do any elite areas which simply is not the case. All professions mesmers/assassins/paras can do all those areas. The speed of ursan may be faster but seeing the fastest elite times, non ursan is just as fast. it's just that people don't even try or want to do non ursan.We cleared uw with assassins in our group uw with sins. The biggest proof is in fastest time elite thread

only area i see acceptable for ursan is doa because it makes it extremely faster.

lol, wut? You post about not needing to use Ursan, than you show your team with an imbagon? Pot, kettle. Kettle, pot.

englitdaudelin

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

East Coast

Soldier's Union [SU]

N/Me

07 May 2008 at 23:03 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

My 2 cents....

Most people have a main character, yes? Ok then, with the old system, why should Johnny Somebody be punished if he's a ritualist and wanted to pug in some elite mission? Nine times out of one hundred, Johnny was SoL. Didn't matter if Johnny was the best Ritualist this side of Cantha, because he made that mistake of picking a different profession he was disregarded. Now sure, Johnny might be in a guild but maybe pug'ing was his only solution. (Might sound like a stretch but is plausible)

Then, Ursan came out and now, Johnny was finally able to see what he was missing out on. Yeah, his skills got replaced but most of the time, he didn't mind. As long as he had fun and got to explore, he didn't mind what he was.

This is how Ursan Blessing is for many, many people.If you're going to say no to ursan, please offer a better solution to the original problem rather than just revert it back to how it was.

Just want to deal with this last bit: Both what Nightow said, and my response, have been said many many times.
The solution we'd like to see is an overhaul of mobs and skills: Full 8-skill bars in an 8-critter (or larger) mob with mixed primary classes. The Charr mobs in some places in the North, the mandragor groups, and so on--these are good starts. Torment Demons also make a nice challenge in both modes: look at the mobs and skill bars. Now, I know that they're amped up to level 28 or so--so tune them down a couple of levels, diversify the skill bars, and do what PuGs and human groups do: add a second monk (Seriously...a mob of 7 critters, and only one monk? No wonder it's easy sometimes...). 2 lvl 24 monks, a full-skillbar paragon, ranger, 2 eles, 2 melee attackers, with some skills to really hurt--especially skills that hurt unconsidered player skillbars. Know that Dervs like to run enchants? Keep the enchant strippers around.

The Undead mobs in Shards of Orr, either normal or hard, are good examples of this balanced group, but they have that one obvious exploit: durrrrr, they're undead. They at least pose a challenge: blinders, 2 monks in the groups, painful melee attacks.

Just my 2 pennies about this.

/end hijack

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

07 May 2008 at 23:04 - 57

@Thizzle -- Rangers are also used in DoA for Famine.

Thizzle

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2008

07 May 2008 at 23:07 - 58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

@Thizzle -- Rangers are also used in DoA for Famine.

Trapping/rituals that's what I meant. I didn't say they were totally useful, but I know what happens first hand if you want to do anything other than trap or set up rituals.

hurric

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

BC

07 May 2008 at 23:09 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randvek

lol, wut? You post about not needing to use Ursan, than you show your team with an imbagon? Pot, kettle. Kettle, pot.

in case you didn't know ursan blessing is a different skill than Save Yourselves.
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
has all the info you need. Ursan = no profession + monks
Paragon + other professions.

again you don't need paragon to do any elite areas in GW except doa.

I won't explain the difference as it's obvious and been discussed in fastest time thread. look it up.

crazybanshee

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

Look out!

E/

07 May 2008 at 23:35 - 60

Yes and no. Yes, in that most ursan parties ONLY want an ursan, no others need apply. Prejudice? Absolutely. However, beyond that it doesn't matter what you are (which is good if you like playing sin, or mesmer, or rit, or whatever class is "out" and usually has a hard time finding groups) and UB is an easily aquired skill that you basically WILL get if you play through eotn. Unfortunately, that means you have to buy eotn.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

07 May 2008 at 23:42 - 61

Granted, yes it *did* change the prejudice. No "LF TANK" and more "LFM Ursan".

And oh snap, we done got Regina's attention!

Nightmares Hammer

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2007

W/

07 May 2008 at 23:47 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Yes.

Guys in my alliance without Ursan because they don't own GW:EN can't get into PUG groups for anything anymore.

Ursan may let "professions that never get in" go somewhere, but it doesn't matter people people have multiple characters/professions. Can't get into Urgoz with your mesmer? So... make/use a ranger. Furthermore, playing a mesmer or a sin etc as an ursan defeats the point of playing one. You aren't actually a mesmer if you are running Ursan. You're a warrior.

Why use a PUG...? I thought they were bad...

I agree with the rest of it.

Navaros

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Mo/Me

08 May 2008 at 01:21 - 63

Yes UB has changed the elitism type, but that is great. Contrary to the OP, it is not just Mesmers who could never get a party prior to UB. Rather, it was Mesmers and Assasins and Rits and Dervishes and Paragons.

That's 5 classes that were unwelcome to ever particpate in any parties, especially high-end PVE areas. UB letting them all into parties at the tradeoff of skill discrimination is a more than worthy tradeoff. Players who happened to have chosen the wrong class had no recourse at all to ever have any chance to participate. But UB is a skill that every player can easily get and have a recourse available to be able to participate.

Hooray for the UB prejudice shift!

Nightow

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Kindred Order of Souls [KOS]

08 May 2008 at 01:21 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardt

If I could micro better, I'd give Hero Battles a shot

.

There are alot of great, if not out right excellent, hero builds that require little to no microing.

I might give it a shot as well, if they could prove to me that they could get out of the way of 10 Meteor Showers in UW first!

Burst Cancel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

Domain of Broken Game Mechanics

08 May 2008 at 02:09 - 65

There's that word "elitism" again. You guys say it like it's a bad thing, when there's nothing inherently wrong with elitism - particularly in a game, where nearly everything is merit-based in some form or another to begin with.

While I dislike playing Ursan (I'm a monk, after all), it's the path of least resistance - easy, convenient, and faster than anything else a PuG is likely to come up with. The average PuG group would be stupid not to take it. It's not so much a matter of 'elitism' as a matter of ensuring the best chance of getting something done in reasonable time, and not worrying about bad players causing the team to blow up.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm not in the habit of playing missions or whatnot just to have my time wasted. If there's something out there that makes party building easier and overall increases your chance of success, exactly why wouldn't you take it?

LifeInfusion

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

in the midline

E/Mo

08 May 2008 at 02:12 - 66

My problems with ursan:
it promotes 1-2-3-4 gameplay, with little or no support (no heals, no condition removal, no hex removal, no hexes, only puts out weakness and knockdown)
it sets a new discrimination in place , rank discrimination
whatever profession you are, a warrior w/ ursan would be better simply because zealous + higher armor than caster = better ursan
makes people "need" eye of the north
eliminates the idea of energy, adrenaline or anything of that sort

Anatomy of an ursan:
armor ignoring 40...75 twice (3 cooldown)
armor ignoring 60...135 plus 2 second knockdown (10 cooldown)
2...5seconds of weakness on enemies in earshot and +5...15damage per attack for allies (15 cooldown)
8...14 seconds of 20...33% faster (12 cooldown)

none of this particularly challenging or fun.

DivineEnvoy

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

Me/P

08 May 2008 at 02:18 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Granted, yes it *did* change the prejudice. No "LF TANK" and more "LFM Ursan".

And oh snap, we done got Regina's attention!

First of all, I don't believe Regina or even Gaile does make the decision on this matter. Wouldn't it be more logical to say you are trying to get the developers' attention?

Secondly, making the 50th thread about Ursan doesn't necessarily catch Regina's attention as she may not have read the thread at all. Wouldn't it be more logical to get her attention on her talk page with a topic about Ursan like this one here?

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_...Ursan_Blessing

{IceFire}

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2005

W/

08 May 2008 at 02:33 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

armor ignoring 60...135 plus 2 second knockdown (10 cooldown)

it's not armor ignoring.

also

viper11025

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2007

02/18/05 (Pm me with the place, its a riddle)

A/

08 May 2008 at 02:43 - 69

Guys, wow. Get over this already.
Its great for non standard pvp classes.
Sins, Mesmers, rangers, and paragons are alot better with it.

Kook~NBK~

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2005

A little chalet outside Drok's

Natural Born Killaz

08 May 2008 at 03:47 - 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by viper11025

Sins, Mesmers, rangers, and paragons are alot better with it.

And THIS is why Ursan is so useful for Sins, Mesmers, Rangers, and Paragons: The perception that the non-"trinity" classes aren't as useful or capable (better) in PvE when they don't use Ursan by so many people who would still exclude these professions if they didn't use ursan. It's utter nonsense, but too many people just don't get it.

rohara

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Rt/

08 May 2008 at 04:22 - 71

i think yr right. elitism just shifted from trinity (or flavor-for-a-particular-area, ie tombs BP) to all-out ursan. i'm ok with it tbh, even though i'm not crazy about playing ursan.

i think its funny to be in a nuker duncan team and hear people in the group QQ about ursan - then watch a mesmer ask to join and be rudely rejected.

pot calling the kettle black.

Cathode_Reborn

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

08 May 2008 at 04:58 - 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

And THIS is why Ursan is so useful for Sins, Mesmers, Rangers, and Paragons: The perception that the non-"trinity" classes aren't as useful or capable (better) in PvE when they don't use Ursan by so many people who would still exclude these professions if they didn't use ursan. It's utter nonsense, but too many people just don't get it.

So true...

Paragons are easily the most imba and powerful of all classes in PvE. Nothing can compare. It takes 6 Ursans just to try to compete with 1 paragon. A lone Ursan on a team could almost be considered a waste of space.

Master Sword Keeper

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Dead Isle

Farmers Of Woe [FoW]

W/

08 May 2008 at 06:02 - 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by zamial

Well lets look at the Elite Areas.If your Norn title isn't rank 9-10 the PUGS call you a noob and give ya the boot.

Point expressed.

Does anyone else get this in ToA or Elite zones? i use my monk when i comes to doin Ursan runs.

But havin a lets face it, R9-10 ursan title means crap if the team are a bunch of nubs,

I hate doin FoW/Uw with pugs, I prefer friends, coz some n00bs over-aggro and i get swamped, coz the other monk is usually a nub... Sheesh. Nuff sed?

Red Sonya

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

08 May 2008 at 06:06 - 74

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kusandaa

I'd add a thing to that.

9. Some also hate that they don't feel as "leet" anymore; their weapons have gone down in price, their ectos have done down in price. They see Ursan as a threat to their economy; the fact armbraces are 100k+10e on average has made a couple players go mad because anyone with time could afford one, and not the "leet" players anymore "OMG ever1 has my tormented shield its crap cuz its not leet anymore if every1 has it, QQ". I bet they're also the ones who think ursan users are scrubs with no skills.

Lol Kusandaa I think you hit the nail on the head what Ursans did was make new LEET players in fact all of the population that don't mind grinding up to the r10 Norn requirements can become leet and get some very nice gear they otherwise couldn't before. The old Leet players are now just common stock amongst the rest and no longer have any stature as they did before because a large majority of players now can play anywhere and everywhere.

Good call Anet.
I'd say most everything now is affordable to the majority of players especially those that have been here 3 years. And those that are new once they get their Ursans and r10 can join the ranks right along with them in no time. Certainly won't take them 3 years I bet.

Krill

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

America

08 May 2008 at 06:13 - 75

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masao

It's ridiculously easy to hit R10 anyway, it should take most players a week tops to max, so there really shouldn't be a problem with elitism if you just invest a short amount of time into it.

Two weeks of my life mindlessly mashing keys so I can get in pve groups? Sincerely, no thanks.

I'm actually glad UB ruined pve, it got me started on pvp and that has renewed my interest in the game. I did give in and buy eotn but I haven't even touched the pve part yet. I really feel bad for people that started the game after UB.

Navaros

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Mo/Me

08 May 2008 at 06:16 - 76

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Lol Kusandaa I think you hit the nail on the head what Ursans did was make new LEET players in fact all of the population that don't mind grinding up to the r10 Norn requirements can become leet and get some very nice gear they otherwise couldn't before. The old Leet players are now just common stock amongst the rest and no longer have any stature as they did before because a large majority of players now can play anywhere and everywhere.

Good call Anet.
I'd say most everything now is affordable to the majority of players especially those that have been here 3 years. And those that are new once they get their Ursans and r10 can join the ranks right along with them in no time. Certainly won't take them 3 years I bet.

There was nothing leet about the so-called old leet players, who wouldn't take anyone into their DOA/Urgoz/Deep etc. party who didn't happen to have the exact class and cookie cutter build they wanted. They only thought they were leet because of they kicked out so many "normal players" who didn't happen to be the class they wanted or have the same one exact cookie cutter build they wanted. How they used those one set of cookie cutter builds and classes for each area, that one cookie cutter being the only acceptable one, takes no more skill and is no more leet than using Ursan is. Leet in GW has always been an illlusion.

UB just switched the one acceptable cookie cutter build to one where everyone can participate (the old so-called leet players refused party entry to other players solely based on instant class and skillbar discrimination, not players being less skilled than them), and one that can be used everywhere as opposed to the old cookie cutters which was one specific one per area. That's a good net benefit, not a bad one.

Red Sonya

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

08 May 2008 at 06:20 - 77

I'm on your side Navaros, but, I did find those old style players elitists as they thought they were better than everyone else and would only take certain builds and specific characters. For what? 2-1/2 years the mesmers, rangers (not so long for assassins deverishers and paragons) were shunned more often than not from the elite areas. Now hahah its those old timer elitists that are getting shunned cause they don't want to grind up the UB title lol don't they call that sweet revenge or something?

{IceFire}

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2005

W/

08 May 2008 at 06:27 - 78

Quote:

Originally Posted by arienrhode

Two weeks of my life mindlessly mashing keys so I can get in pve groups? Sincerely, no thanks.

YOU'RE DOIN IT WRONG

but then I guess how fast you get r10 depends on this "skill" i keep hearing about

right?

Red Sonya

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

08 May 2008 at 06:30 - 79

lol Icefire that was a good one. Takes UB to get maxed out faster in it.

Th Fooster

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2008

Twice Dawns The Day[WoT]

Mo/

08 May 2008 at 06:35 - 80

It seems to me that human nature NEEDs a bad guy, and a good guy.
Who the bad guy and who the good guy may change, BUT peopple love to hate.They NEED a scapegoat. its part of thier in game stress relief to vent it on something they think is "noobish" or "cheap" for the time being, its ursan. I personaly hate asassins.But they are very usefull in pve and pve.When a sin ties to "solo me" in pvp i just laugh! i know i know.. "not me you wouldnt i would pwn any class with my sin i do all the time.." thats what you may think, but alas..I have seen it all form the soj dancing daggers smite sins to the rediculous temple strike sins.. my sin hate comes from my own predjuduce that started when facitons came out people tried to play sins liek they were tanks. and failed. and to this day in pvp i see some clown doing cartweels and crap tryin to "pwn me" i laugh! BUT they are efective when incorperated in a team, despite my predjuduce, they are not that bad of a class.I have always loved mesmers even back in the anti mesmer days.
My point is i agree with the started of this thread. UB has not caused any new hate. its jsut concentrated it onto UB, and now any clown can get rank 10 norn, and jopin a party regardless of thier class.

My UWspeed clear groups have demonstrated what can be done with good teamwork and ursan blessing is just simply part of the build but the speed in witch we clear in takes the focus off ursan and puts it on the team, and our methods do not depend on ursan in fact, they can be implemented in non ursan teams with similar results. and thats the issue here...
UB has not inspired any new hate. it was always there. teh focus has just shifted