What gives us the right to moan to extent we do about Anet?

I am no saint, and I admit I have moaned about ecto or whatever in the past. But when I think about, what gives me the right.

As a community we do a lot of moaning about, well, absolutely anything the game, though I not sure if it is a guild wars guru problem because i have no idea how much gwonline complains. Think about it, unlike games like wow or lineage or we make a one time payment. When I buy a game (one campaign) for around £15-25 (regardless of it being a mmo) I expect 50 hours of gameplay, so in essence i am paying for what it says on the box . Now it being a mmo, but still largly taking account the price of it, I expect 150 hours of gameplay (1 campaign). Now with 3 campaigns and 1 expansion pack that would be 450(3 campaigns) + 100 hours (gwen) = 550 hours of gamesplay. I have spent 819 hours playing guild wars and that is with 2 campaigns and 1 expansion pack with no extras. That is a bargain I reckon, 819 hours of gameplay in the last 21 months. for £60 worth of games. I don't see why Anet should be providing more that that, but they do it anyway.

On the topic of grinding, trust me when I say the community is thinking as a mob rather a individuals. Think about it, firstly you don't need these grind titles to the game, and secondly and most importantly do you think you would be playing the game without this 'grind'? The answer is no. If the all the titles were campaign based rep/points or lower rep/points needed, do you think you will be playing the game,or pve atleast, as much as you are now? You can argue you that you can farm or whatever but seriosly how long can you do that for? Even for pvp, as ungrind like as they are, if the points need for hero and gladiatore and co were lower will you be playing? No- because it is considered you have completed the game. once you have finish/maxed everything in a game that is a completed game mmo or not. Repetedly doing something over and over again is nothing unique to guild wars and all games not just mmos it exists. And compaed to other mmos guild wars has no little or no grind.

On the topic of econonomy- It isn't that bad. Back in 2005 to early 2007 it was only the rich (a minority) that prospered, now the rich are a bit poorer, but still rich and the people in the middle are now richer. As far as i cam see it the econmy revolves aroung the ecto and it the ecto prices are high the rest of it is high and the ecto prices are low everything else is low. For example if ecto is 10k ea and random item A at that time is 100km (lets call this period A 2005-2007), and ecto drops to 5k and random item drops to 50k (lets call this period B 2007 onwards), it really does not make a differnce. You may be saying it does make a diffence but it doesn't because if you are farming ectos at 5k ea to buy random item A (period B) rather than farming ectos at 10k ea to buy random item A (period A) you will still have to farm ecto 10 times to get that item. In fact the rich proper more form this as they get to buy these items at 50k cheaper. Also it ineviteble that prices will drop, think about it since 2005 there were less experienced players that farm for money in ratio to those who don't but by 2008 there are more, but still less in ration to those that don't, experienced players farming for money, as though they didn't advance as fast as those that did in 2005 had enough time to do so in the space of 1-3 years. The new economy doesn't hurt anyone it actually helps people, the rich can buy things for cheaper prices they are just not making their 100k a week as they used to but making 50k instead and as i said before it not like that can no longer afford that randon item A anymore, it is not like they have shares in ecto anyway, because you can't have shares in a game!

On the topic of skil balancing- Apart for the pve skills (Ursan ) and a few derv skills I don't think izzy is doing a bad job.


(There a few more I want to add but can't think of them atm )

And most of impotantly you have no obligation to play this game.
I have no problem with sugesting things to Anet but we as a community bash them. They do listen, obviosly not as much as wow, as we have no obligation to them, but who wants constant nefing and buffing of things. Edit:And yes I undestand the sheer irony of what i say, but you bash and bully them, and expect so much them from them. The fact that you expect so much delivered.

Because we have the right to do so ?

People will always moan, whether it's justified or not.

This game isn't an MMO, it's a CORPG.

And yeah, without a playerbase, where will the money come in?

i only bitch and moan when im bored.

What gives me the right? Because on the very GW official site it tells us to goto unoffical forums and leave them feedback. If the feedback is in the way of a moan so beit, but, that's opinionated in the eyes of someone elses view of the post. Your topic could be considered a moan by many. Moaning about moaners. Really the question should be...."Why should I question what other people do?" "Who am I to place judgement on others?" "Why shouldn't I remove the four foot beam from my own eyes before questioning the splinter in other peoples eyes?" Remember when you point your finger at one person there's 3 more pointing back at you.

The internet.

Now where's my cookie for winning the thread?

Let me counter your question with a question. What gives you the right to moan about our moaning?

From people who bought the game? This isnt a p2p MMO.
The Majority (ill say) of people play the game and dont care, or even know about a "broken economy" or "unfair skills".

We have the right to moan as the post above suggested, and as YOU are MOANING at the community within your post.

MOANING AND GROANING AT PEOPLE FTW!

fixed


-___-'

let me counter your question with another one.

what gives you the right to moan about him moaning about us moaning all the time?

The only people complaining are the leetists.

Case in point, Ursan. It's just a handful of the millions of players out there pissed. Because those millions are happy cuz they have a way of accessing areas/achievements they couldn't before.

the only think broken are the players attitudes.

It isn't a right to moan, it's a right to leave feedback and better a game. Without it I doubt there would be anywhere near the amount of improvements or increase in the amount of players that this or any other game has.

Some people choose to do it in a moaning fashion. Ironically the very thing you're doing while dissing.


Uh, wouldn't that be the player base?

How are they meant to improve if they don't know what there customers think

Very valid point. I can answer in two words:

If there was no moaning the forum would be a very boring place. Unless your into the epic SDZ threads we get each day.

when i said 'what give us the right' they were very strong words, because I have the same right to moan about you have to maon about Anet, what I meant to say is stop Anet bashing!

Every Goddamnd bug thats not mentiond on the carton, or the manual, I got that right when A-Net accepted my money.

The cost of the game, the online store, the PlayNC store?

Why do we moan? Because we have the right to do so; dont we live in Democracy?

+1

Anet is free to ignore it, so who cares? But if you don't understand what moaning is, it's oftentimes actually constructive criticism about fixing problems, bugs, bad gameplay issues... god forbid such advice be offered up. Clearly Anet is a God that doesn't need any help, right?

Just to be sure let's check their average critical ratings for games from the collected data at gamerankings:

Guild Wars: 89%
Guild Wars Factions: 85%
Nightfall: 83%
Eye of the North: 80%

Hmm... wait a minute a declining trend. I guess the power of fanboy love isn't magically making them the best gamemaker they can be! Quick everyone, love harder, it will work!

No.

It's called customer feedback. If people stopped "bashing ANET" then ANET wouldn't know what does and doesn't work as far as changes that keep their player base engaged. If that happens, they don't know how to tailor future products to their target audience as well. If that happens, they make an inferior product.

What I mean to say is, stop venerating businesses. Just because most of the GWG community is immature and shrill doesn't mean they should stop complaining. They should probably make an attempt to complain more productively rather than just outright whining like giant babies, but that's a different thing entirely.

Yes, at least I do, but that has nothing to do with this since your right to free speech in this democracy is only relevant in reference to the government.

Simplest reason: People bitch because they are the ones sending ArenaNet money by buying the games. Now, if Anet doesn't shape up and change things, those players might leave, and no more dollars for Anet. Of course, despite what a bunch of the whiners say, we have classic battered wife syndrome - no matter how Anet balances, they stick with the game and keep complaining.

We're their current and future customers. They want to hear our feedback good or bad.

And yes, I WOULD play the game without grind. But nice attempt at thinking like the rest of the sheep.

By the looks of the new z-chest update it seems like anet have set themselves up for a LOT more 'bashing' in the weeks to come.

Think of it this way, maybe the OP meant that sometimes our moaning isnt constructive or helping in any way. Its just moaning and nothing more; merely complaints that arent always polite by the way.

Sometimes, and I insist on that word, moaning is just an hindrance to development and it brings nothing new.

P.S. Feel free to switch ''sometimes'' for something else, as if I'd care...

We have the right to moan because this isn't a freakin' Nazism. As long as we don't insult or offend other people, we can say what bothers us.

Oh, and if they ignore us now, we will ignore their later games. That's why Blizzard didn't abandon Diablo II and other games right after WoW's premiere or shortly before it - he knew, that people wouldn't trust them as much as they do now.

The freedom of speech?

[QUOTE]bs

quote jeff strain mayby you heard of him?

Dumb titles like this.

On a more serious note...

There is a fine line between moaning and constructive criticism... like "<Area> is buggy! Fix it now!" and "There is an <area> that is perhaps glitched somehow, you guys might want to take a look at this."

As the leader from an old guild said... "A negative answer is better than silence."

If we didn't "moan" about Guild Wars, Anet would not know how their game is doing... the fact that the Riverside Inn pops out a brawl every time something outrageous happens means that they're getting feedback.

Those who complain either play way too fast, never bother to challenge themselves... or hell, even bother to consider the fact that it's a game which means you have fun playing it. If you have to GO RED ENGINE about something you don't like, don't play the game.

Last thing people want are problems that can't be solved without the need to GO RED ENGINE all the time.

What new z-chest update?

Edit: Nvm, but I actually like that update.

If you really believe that, you're probably part of the reason that our consumer culture is so horribly defective these days.

It's called self-interest. You should look into having some. Like I said above, the WAY the GWG community complains is usually pretty pathetic (and I admit to falling into that trap myself), but that doesn't mean they shouldn't complain, it just means they should complain in more constructive ways.

Its hard for customers on the client side to bash and bully a big business into doing what they want. And I wouldn't exactly call "Waah no ecto drop stupid ANet" bashing and bullying. ANet can simply type /ignore on those posts, if they really cared about EVERY single customer's desires they'd be paralyzed into inaction by the sheer enormity of requests.

ANet is like any other business, please as many people as possible as long as possible while raking in maximum profit. Forum boards constitute a incredibly small minority of the player base, and while some may argue that represents a good cross-section, I would tend to doubt that, especially the ones that have more than 100 posts, they would be "hardcore" gamers compared to a population majority.

But, while we the player may be a slave to ANet's vision and plans, they in turn are slaves to our collective wallets. The only thing that generally changes a game's structure is a mass exodus of players, and by that time its too late to fix because the word is out. The one thing loyal players can hope for in a game like this is for responsible developers who actually do want to turn out the best game, not just the most profit.

ANet's business model is also different from MMOs like WoW, BUT they planned for that and advertised their game like that as a selling point, so their obligation to the player who spends $50 every quarter or bi-yearly is the same as to a game where its $14.99 a month. PLUS WoW has a lot more content for PvE, and while the graphics may be cartoonish, WoW is built more robustly and has no loading screens (or VERY few).

WoW gets around the title grind that GW has by not having titles. Instead they have grind for items and a plethora of them that far exceeds what is in Guild Wars. ANY MMO has grind, especially PvE side, its the nature of the beast. The developer who comes up with a grindless online RPG is ftw. A game like Morrowind or Oblivion has no real grind, unless you have players that MUST have 100s in every stat. But those are offline.

A game that is balanced class wise, and with a system that rewards skill at playing and not grinding would however, fail utterally I think commercially. The reason? The vast majority of gamers are not very skilled, so would quickly be turned off by a game that solely rewards player ability. Why would you want to play a game you suck at?

Like I said, grind is a necessity, to level out the playing field as it were. ANet's business model while different from pay-to-play MMOs does not alleviate it from user feedback and criticism. Lastly, expected number of hours of gameplay is not really a yardstick in MMOs, because its up to the player, since there is no "end-game" really. Yes you can beat the last mission, but then there's Hard Mode! And don't forget PvP.

So I mill moan as much as I want, call me whiny, but I think in the end ANY feedback to a developer is constructive, I highly doubt Izzy sits at a desk with a box of kleenex to wipe away the tears when someone complains about ecto drop rates...

http://www.guildwars.com/competitive...ds/default.php

^Clicky.

Actually a lot of people moan/complain just to stir things up on the forums. Oh I see it everyday by basically the same load of people. Feedback comes within the flamewars and the name calling and the immaturity of most here, but, it's still feedback nonetheless that Anet can filter thru once they get past all the stirrings. Fact is there will always be moaning and gnawing and gnashing of teeth throughout eternity there's a book that says so.

the only way to improve the game is to get feedback from the players who bought it (or whose parents bought it for them)....and thats where the fansites come in....not everything that is posted is good, not all is bad.....its then the job of the company producing said game to weed out the good from the bad.

for example: exploits....the devs sit in the nice little room ...oblivious to the outside....on the fansite 'hey try this great xxx and you get yyy' exploit...one of the team reads it.....and says 'oh my we never saw THAT coming' and move at the pace of a turtle to get it fixed.....

without us they would never see the angry mob congregating outside their offices with the tar and feathers and pitchforks!

Exactly. A reason to complain over something needs a reason worth reading, knowing and understanding. I probably should have mentioned that in my previous post.

It's called constructive criticism. Everyone has a right to an opinion and to voice it. If they listen we might help improve the game for everyone.

Guys, what gives you the right to complain about the OP's post? I mean, really now!