Please, I would like as much feedback as possible.
edit: Tested assassins with falling spider,etc. Heroes are capable of using said skills after a KD
Please reply with skill types or combinations or specific skills themselves that heroes cannot use properly.
List of skills by profession that Hero AI is incapable of using
samcobra
Tyla
Any KD -> Crushing Blow.
Unless you covered that in your post and I misunderstood...
Hmm, I think they misuse Magebane as a damage skill.
Unless you covered that in your post and I misunderstood...
Hmm, I think they misuse Magebane as a damage skill.
Hildor
I just saw my Goren using Crushing Blow after Earth Shaker...(on the hammer+hero=lol-build I gave him while lvling him up and annoying my monks)
Selith Senjak
While I have never put "Fall Back" on my own heroes, I have seen it on the heroes belonging to some of my guild members - heroes are capable of using it correctly, but it seems they prefer to misuse it about 80% of the time.
arch psyker
AI uses skills as THEY see fit. Unfortunately AI can't currently (or maybe ever) be able to comprehend on the level humans can comprehend.
With a little bit of micro any skill can be used as a person sees fit.
With a little bit of micro any skill can be used as a person sees fit.
distilledwill
[Dwayna's Sorrow] <-- unfortunately. tested this on a minion bomber build today and Olias didnt even cast it once. Even when I stood there and allowed the minions to die around him. Neither did he cast it on any players who were close to death.
graverobber2
beeing hexed with [diversion]
they just seem to cast through it
they just seem to cast through it
elevenfifty5
Quote:
Originally Posted by distilledwill
[Dwayna's Sorrow] <-- unfortunately. tested this on a minion bomber build today and Olias didn't even cast it once. Even when I stood there and allowed the minions to die around him. Neither did he cast it on any players who were close to death.
Yeah I was real sad to see my minion master (Minion Bomber Variant. Which would have made this skill more usefull as minions are dying all the time) and monk heroes ignore this skill.
as they heal minions anyway I thought hell why not. This could be good. Ignored by my heroes had to force cast.
Note on [skill]Blood ritual[/skill] If you are holding a melee weapon (sword, axe spear etc..) Hero AI will not BR you unless you force it.
Since the update of [skill]Psychic Instability[/skill] Gwen now almost ignores this skill. (edit: bbcode description is wrong)
Monk Heroes do not use [skill]Divine Spirit[/skill] worth a salt. [skill]Signet of devotion[/skill] gets spammed by monk heroes leaving them in that 2 second cast way to often which IMO is bad. (Edit: Also Monk heroes misuse [skill]Cure hex[/skill] they treat it as a standard hex removal and ignore the healing potential. which is a waste IMO.)
Ele heroes have a rather unsuccessful time of [skill]steam[/skill] and [skill]Mind Blast[/skill]
I know I have noticed and blacklisted alot more skills but I am at work (yay for goofing off) and can't think of anything else atm.
Other notable things I have noticed with heroes. I will not give them more than one stance (where applicable) as they usually mess that up bad.
Edit: all these comments are geared around not having to micro, or as little micro managing as possible.
Yeah I was real sad to see my minion master (Minion Bomber Variant. Which would have made this skill more usefull as minions are dying all the time) and monk heroes ignore this skill.
as they heal minions anyway I thought hell why not. This could be good. Ignored by my heroes had to force cast.
Note on [skill]Blood ritual[/skill] If you are holding a melee weapon (sword, axe spear etc..) Hero AI will not BR you unless you force it.
Since the update of [skill]Psychic Instability[/skill] Gwen now almost ignores this skill. (edit: bbcode description is wrong)
Monk Heroes do not use [skill]Divine Spirit[/skill] worth a salt. [skill]Signet of devotion[/skill] gets spammed by monk heroes leaving them in that 2 second cast way to often which IMO is bad. (Edit: Also Monk heroes misuse [skill]Cure hex[/skill] they treat it as a standard hex removal and ignore the healing potential. which is a waste IMO.)
Ele heroes have a rather unsuccessful time of [skill]steam[/skill] and [skill]Mind Blast[/skill]
I know I have noticed and blacklisted alot more skills but I am at work (yay for goofing off) and can't think of anything else atm.
Other notable things I have noticed with heroes. I will not give them more than one stance (where applicable) as they usually mess that up bad.
Edit: all these comments are geared around not having to micro, or as little micro managing as possible.
Tyla
The entire Protection Prayers line aswell.
legacyofkain85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
Any KD -> Crushing Blow.
Unless you covered that in your post and I misunderstood...
Hmm, I think they misuse Magebane as a damage skill. u are right same goes for punishing shoot
Unless you covered that in your post and I misunderstood...
Hmm, I think they misuse Magebane as a damage skill. u are right same goes for punishing shoot
elevenfifty5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
The entire Protection Prayers line aswell.
You said it.
EDIT:
Just read update notes. will give [skill]Dwaynas sorrow[/skill] another go.
EDIT:
Just read update notes. will give [skill]Dwaynas sorrow[/skill] another go.
distilledwill
Quote:
Originally Posted by distilledwill
And as if by magic!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by New Update
* Improved Hero AI for using the Monk skill Dwayna’s Sorrow.
EDIT: Testing it in HM Raisu Palace Explorable... he uses it perfectly!
elevenfifty5
Hacker devs reading forums >.<
Kumu Honua
[skill]Waste Not, Want Not[/skill] heroes will use this as the first skill to be used. Even when at full energy. It's the first skill they will use when it recharges, again even if at full energy. Such potential wasted.
MercenaryKnight
Just curious, does anyone know if now you can stick dwaynas sorrow on a minion bomber and will they actually use it to throw the enchant on their minions when they get clumped up? If so it could be a decent addition to the build.
Marverick
[skill]Essence Strike[/skill][skill]Shock Arrow[/skill][skill]Glowing Ice[/skill][skill]Glowing Gaze[/skill][skill]Glowstone[/skill][skill]Mind Blast[/skill]
Heroes just treat these skills as direct damage spells even though their primary purpose is energy management. [skill]Disrupting Shot[/skill][skill]Magebane Shot[/skill][skill]Disrupting Throw[/skill] Heroes don't use these as interrupts. [skill]Power Block[/skill] Heroes won't prioritize this skill, sometimes only using it after exhausting all their other interrupts against, say, a Ruby Djinn. [skill]Mistrust[/skill][skill]Guilt[/skill][skill]Shame[/skill] Heroes use these on foes who don't have any of the spells necessary to trigger the hex. ex. using Mistrust on Warriors. [skill]Merciless Spear[/skill] Heroes use this on foes above 50% health. [skill]Maiming Spear[/skill] Heroes use this when target foe isn't bleeding. *insert every single Assassin Dagger skill* Heroes use them far too conservatively [skill]Deadly Paradox[/skill][skill]Ancestor's Rage[/skill] Heroes don't use them. [skill]Throw Dirt[/skill] Heroes like to blind casters with it... [skill]Zealous Benediction[/skill] Heroes use it when target > 50% health.
distilledwill
Quote:
Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight
Just curious, does anyone know if now you can stick dwaynas sorrow on a minion bomber and will they actually use it to throw the enchant on their minions when they get clumped up? If so it could be a decent addition to the build.
Yes, they do. Its really useful, usually hits all members of the party too. Not that you should be dying with an efficient minion wall.
Kumu Honua
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marverick
[skill]Disrupting Shot[/skill]
Heroes don't use these as interrupts. I have had Pyre using Disrupting Shot (The longer recharge helps keep his energy useful) and he uses it just fine. He even prioritizes distracting over disrupting which is good.
Bront
Quote:
Originally Posted by elevenfifty5
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tyla
The entire Protection Prayers line aswell.
Not true, [Aegis] and some of the condition removal skills they use just fine.
Bront
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marverick
[skill]Essence Strike[/skill][skill]Shock Arrow[/skill][skill]Glowing Ice[/skill][skill]Glowing Gaze[/skill][skill]Glowstone[/skill][skill]Mind Blast[/skill]
Heroes just treat these skills as direct damage spells even though their primary purpose is energy management. Realy? [glowing gaze] on a rodgorts bar gets used quite well in my experience. They won't exclusively target burning, but they will prioritize burning targets, and set them on fire first if they can [rodgort's invocation][Incendiary Bonds][glowing gaze] as the first 3 skills on a dual attunement line and found it's been used quite effectively.
MercenaryKnight
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marverick
[skill]Merciless Spear[/skill]
Heroes use this on foes above 50% health. [skill]Ancestor's Rage[/skill] Heroes do use ancestor's rage correctly. They only seem to use it if it'll hit 2 enemies or more. Also for me merciless spear is usually always waited on until they hit around 50% health. However my paragon heroes have other attack skills that can be spammed/ used more in between.
Richardt
[blood renewal]
Had a hero necro use this as some self healing....and lets say that when they decided to use it for self healing was when they were under alot of pressure. Needless to say my Livia spent alot of time laying face down in the dirt.
Bront
Oh, I've had problems with [Energetic Was Lee Sa]. Heroes don't like to cast it if they have another item, and they drop it immedately after they do cast it for the immediate effect.
Paul Dawg
Yes, and from what I've seen heroes use it well with [searing flames].
Originally Posted by Bront
Quote: Realy? [glowing gaze] on a rodgorts bar gets used quite well in my experience.
System_Crush
[Well of Blood] Heroes use it as a corpse control skill, they will not combine it correctly with any animate spells you give them, they just spamm it like mad when there are foes in their aggro circle.
When all foes are dead then they use animate spells on the single last corpse. I used [Shadow Walk] on Jora, with the intention of getting her into the fray quickly so she could tank more effectively and a disabled cancel stance to get her back to me to defend the back line. She completely and utterly ignored the skill.
elevenfifty5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bront
Realy? I had a HB hero build that used that skill quite well.
Not true, [Aegis] and some of the condition removal skills they use just fine. Yeah, Well [skill]divine spirit[/skill] got blacklisted off hero bars in my guild when heroes were introduced do to the fact they would use it as soon as it recharged. not when they really needed it. Maybe they changed it. still think there are better options out there for a hero. When I talk bad on prot Im not really lumping condition removals in there. I just haven't seen a good prot spec hero bar that the hero doesn't completely fail at. Xunlai Secret Agent
The wiki seems to think that Heros will only cast Icy Veins on foes <20%, which is a waste imho.
Bront
Quote:
Originally Posted by elevenfifty5
Yeah, Well [skill]divine spirit[/skill] got blacklisted off hero bars in my guild when heroes were introduced do to the fact they would use it as soon as it recharged. not when they really needed it. Maybe they changed it. still think there are better options out there for a hero.
They don't "Hold" it, but they're good about spamming spells once they cast it, which is why it works well on an HB hero build (HB skill 7, DS skill 8, heals most of the other skills).
Honestly, if they use it for the first set of spells they cast, as long as they're spamming spells, it doesn't matter, and they get it again later in the fight if they need it on recharge. They don't use it out of combat at least.
Richardt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xunlai Secret Agent
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I've always had luck with a hero using [icy veins].
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Skills Heroes Use Well: .... Skills Heroes Use Okay: .... Skills Heroes Use Badly: .... Skills Heroes Won't Use: .... And for examples you can include [aggressive refrain] under skills heroes use well, for Okay you can throw in say [zealous benediction], for badly [blood renewal] and for won't use [shadow walk]. Just an idea.
elevenfifty5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bront
They don't use it out of combat at least.
Thats a change. That was one of my first hangups. Still after so long not using it we have come to put together a rather decent healmonk Hero that can spit out heals. With decent energy management.
distilledwill
Reported skill usage:
Skills Heroes Use Well: [Dwayna's Sorrow][Aggressive Refrain][Jagged Bones][Death Nova][Signet Of Lost Souls][Ghostmirror Light] Skills Heroes Use Badly: [Glowing Ice][Glowing Gaze][Glowstone][Shock Arrow][Steam][Mind Blast][Energetic Was Lee Sa][Essence Strike][Zealous Benediction][Reversal Of Fortune][Cure Hex][Signet Of Rage] [Merciless Spear][Maiming Spear][Disrupting Throw][Spear Swipe][Blood Renewal][Power Block][Mistrust][Guilt][Shame][Waste Not, Want Not][Leech Signet][Magebane Shot][Punishing Shot][Crushing Blow][Signet Of Shadows] Skills Heroes Won't Use: [Shadow Walk][Psychic Instability][Spirit Light Weapon] Summary so far. Any Ive missed?
zling
I'm surprised nobody mentioned [skill]reversal of fortune[/skill] yet...
it's the no. 1 skill heroes completely FAIL at! Tyla
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bront
Not true, [Aegis] and some of the condition removal skills they use just fine.
Why just note one or two skills when you can say the whole line?
There are also condition removals in healing ect. And Aegis is just a fire and forget skill, anyone and anything can use it. @Zling -- Read one of my posts. The whole Prot Prayers line. 
DarkSpirit
I could have sworn I have seen [[Shadow Walk] being used before once. As far as sac skills like [[Blood Renewal] is concerned, they have a tendency to sac themselves to death in a desperate situation.
Blind skills are use on casters as well as melee but that is not too bad if they combine it well with [[Signet of Shadows] but they use this signet poorly, as a damage skill even on non-blinded foes. [[Signet of Toxic Shock] just fails. [[Signet of Rage] is cast on casters as well as melee, even if the casters do not have any adrenaline skills. [[Leech Signet] is used to only interrupt spells to get the energy return. In general, if monsters and henchies use the skill well, heroes would use it well and if they use it badly then heroes would use it badly. For [[Protective Spirit], they tend to cast it on dying minions but they do cast it right sometimes and save asses. Lina uses it. Does Lina use [[Reversal of Fortune] poorly?
Richardt
distilled, I would add [Spear Swipe] in the mix for badly.
My Morgahn was using it pretty indiscriminately last night-now why he felt that the Charr Swordsman needed to be dazed I'll never know (and this was in the Breach, so there wasn't much to interupt...). I also notice that he'll run up to an enemy, see that it's a melee and then run back and start chuckign his spear. EDIT: For use well, I would throw in [jagged bones][death nova][signet of lost souls][ghostmirror light] DOUBLE EDIT: [spirit light weapon] goes into the won't use pile-tried it a couple days ago and Livia never even used it once in a 2 hour period.
Boogz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marverick
[skill]Ancestor's Rage[/skill] Heroes don't use them. Heroes use AR pretty well
Marverick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bront
Realy? [glowing gaze] on a rodgorts bar gets used quite well in my experience. They won't exclusively target burning, but they will prioritize burning targets, and set them on fire first if they can [rodgort's invocation][Incendiary Bonds][glowing gaze] as the first 3 skills on a dual attunement line and found it's been used quite effectively.
That's because everything is burning nearly all the time.
Look at essence strike; it's spammed when there's no spirit. Shock Arrow, spammed randomly on foes. Mind Blast; just spammed on recharge. Same with Glowing Gaze, except the condition is nearly always satisfied so it doesn't really matter too much.
Richardt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogz
Heroes use AR pretty well
By well do you mean randomly cast on any ally?
And I've been testing [preservation] and [rejuvination]-works pretty damn good!
distilledwill
I have to say, Ive always noticed my heroes use [[Ancestors' Rage] pretty well, casting it on an ally only when an enemy is close.
Draikin
These kind of threads have been started before but I'm not sure if they're going to achieve anything? I've think I've compiled over a hundred individual AI skill issues on the official wiki where the QA team can read them directly, but I basically gave up on completing the list since hardly any of the issues are actually being reported (especially compared to the other bug report pages), let alone solved. For what's it worth, here's my opinion on some of the bugs mentioned here:
Originally Posted by distilledwill
Quote: [Shadow Walk][Psychic Instability][Spirit Light Weapon] |
Quote:
Quote: [Signet of Toxic Shock][Signet of Rage] Both are used correctly: the AI will in fact ignore their target lock/called target when using Signet of Rage and instead use it on the target (in range of course) that has the most adrenal skills on their skill bar. Signet of Toxic Shock is only used on targets suffering from Poison, I don't see how they can use it more effectively than that.
Quote: [Steam] Keep in mind that this skill will can be used in combination with [Glyph of Immolation] which applies burning before Steam triggers. In my opinion fixing this skill would mean:
- making the AI aware of the GoI combo
- let them ignore their locked target so they can target foes wielding martial weapons who are suffering from burning (burning condition not required if the hero has GoI active)
- if no foes wielding martial weapons can be targeted, let them use the skill on any burning foes in range. If those also aren't available, the AI should still use the skill on their currently locked or called target.
Quote: Originally Posted by Marverick [skill]Power Block[/skill]
Heroes won't prioritize this skill, sometimes only using it after exhausting all their other interrupts against, say, a Ruby Djinn. This is basically a global AI problem (the AI usage of [Glyph of Lesser Energy] suffers from the same flaw), since the AI doesn't seem capable of actually prioritizing skills that have a similar purpose. For example if an ally has less 50% health and the hero monk has both WoH and Dwayna's Kiss available they'll randomly select one of the two skills, even though WoH would be the better choice. I'm not sure if it's all possible for the developers to fix this problem without completely reworking the AI.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Marverick
[skill]Mistrust[/skill][skill]Guilt[/skill][skill]Shame[/skill] Heroes use these on foes who don't have any of the spells necessary to trigger the hex. ex. using Mistrust on Warriors. I agree on Mistrust, but Guilt on the other hand seems to be used correctly (in other words used on foes wielding a wand/staff). Shame doesn't seem to be used at all actually. Quote:
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