So, why does ANet favor the noobs and punish the veterans?
Mr. Undisclosed
Life isn't fair, no need to QQ about it though. The non vets outnumber us therefore they are more important.
RavagerOfDreams
dunno how they punish anyone tbh
i honestly like the double weekends as it brings out more people to places like the double gladiator weekend allowed me to find a good team in less the 30 minutes that was nice...
i honestly like the double weekends as it brings out more people to places like the double gladiator weekend allowed me to find a good team in less the 30 minutes that was nice...
Quaker
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by The Real Avalon
Is it the constant 'need' to draw more players into the game that gives ANet the right to ignore their veteran players?
With all these silly weekends with double points to titles and the addition of new titles that aren't retro-active at all, ANet seems the favor the new players. |
Personally, I don't mind the idea of new title tracks, and I don't mind if they're not retro-active. What I do mind is the stupid "kiddie" content they keep coming up with.... but then again, that goes back to catering to the market.
Shakti
Wow, we're being punished by these additions? Who knew? And here was me, thinking it was just that it was NEW and totally not seeing the plot by Anet to screw their loyal vets....
/facepalm
/facepalm
Ate of DK
I'm a veteran player and I'm still waiting for Anet to fix the survivor title.
Crom The Pale
After 3years of playing GW I've come to recognize that things always change, sometimes for the better sometimes not.
I can recall the complaints when sup runes were 100K for Vigor and Absorbtion.....
I can recall the complaints about the AI buff to mobs to get out of AoE dmg...
Somethings will always piss off people, even when a large number like the change, or vice versa!
I can recall the complaints when sup runes were 100K for Vigor and Absorbtion.....
I can recall the complaints about the AI buff to mobs to get out of AoE dmg...
Somethings will always piss off people, even when a large number like the change, or vice versa!
pamelf
I've been playing this game for 3 years and I have fun at all those weekend. They don't punish veterans at all, but keep the game interesting for us. 
HuntMaster Avatar
If a weekend event was meant to actually punish vets it would be something like this.
Starting Friday, All accounts with more than 1k hours shall be blocked til Sunday 12pm midnight PST.
During this weekend players can enjoy the following.
10 times the chance to get gold max damage r7 drops.
Triple XP awards for elite caps.
Free to enter Fow/UW.
triple bounty on all title points.
New exclusive quests for characters under level 20, Reward included new mini!
Half cost, Half material requirement elite armor.
7 hero option.
Rollerbeetle racing, top 10 players get mini beetle.
New collectors, collecting regular charr carvings trade in for ecto's 1/1 ratio.
80% drop chance of elite skill tomes in normal mode.
quadruple fame rewards in pvp.
10 times normal faction rewards.
10 times balthazar faction rewards.
Until this happens, veterans are not being punished. People just play so much and for so long that they are getting EVERYTHING which limits the benefits of events.
Solution> Stop playing so much!
You wanna rush through and get everything and appear godly? Then dont bitch when you have everything and theres nothing left for you to gain.
Starting Friday, All accounts with more than 1k hours shall be blocked til Sunday 12pm midnight PST.
During this weekend players can enjoy the following.
10 times the chance to get gold max damage r7 drops.
Triple XP awards for elite caps.
Free to enter Fow/UW.
triple bounty on all title points.
New exclusive quests for characters under level 20, Reward included new mini!
Half cost, Half material requirement elite armor.
7 hero option.
Rollerbeetle racing, top 10 players get mini beetle.
New collectors, collecting regular charr carvings trade in for ecto's 1/1 ratio.
80% drop chance of elite skill tomes in normal mode.
quadruple fame rewards in pvp.
10 times normal faction rewards.
10 times balthazar faction rewards.
Until this happens, veterans are not being punished. People just play so much and for so long that they are getting EVERYTHING which limits the benefits of events.
Solution> Stop playing so much!
GloryFox
Sorry but the people who are getting punished are the people with more than one character. The more characters you have the more Grind you must attain. This is counter intuitive because as a busniess you want to sell more character slots. More slots means more money for ANET, yet ANET punishes those such as myself who have 10 characters one of each class and hours upon hours of playtime. Titles and tying titles to PvE skills has only forced me to concentrate on one character, issue is I've invested in 10.
HuntMaster Avatar
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by GloryFox
Sorry but the people who are getting punished are the people with more than one character. The more characters you have the more Grind you must attain. This is counter intuitive because as a busniess you want to sell more character slots. More slots means more money for ANET, yet ANET punishes those such as myself who have 10 characters one of each class and hours upon hours of playtime. Titles and tying titles to PvE skills has only forced me to concentrate on one character, issue is I've invested in 10.
|
Bront
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by The Real Avalon
the addition of new titles that aren't retro-active
|
So very few titles additions will ever be retroactive.
Sorn Xarann
I'm sick of the complaining on the guru community. Really I am, when i started playing Guild Wars Oct. 31 2005 I was a noob, everyone is on their first day, everything was new and interesting, and challenging don't forget challenging. This was my first and only strong lived MMO. It has kept me interested in the past 2.5 years and it still interests me. You bum-rushed everything you could do in pve? Ok, your bored, blah blah blah, i've done this, done that. Make the game fun for yourself and shut the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO up. Don't wanna grind pve? Grind sucks, I understand, play pvp for a month, do something else. Make friends laugh long and hard into the night on vent. w/e the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO you want to do, do it. Stop bitchin about this and that and have a good time, this is a game. Why do people play games?
MoldyRiceFrenzy
part of popularism, more noobs, less veterens.
Thizzle
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Big_Daddy
I have never given a flying fig about Titles.... am I the only one that does not care about them? What the hell is wrong with me?
 |
Cacheelma
It's Anet's business model, really.
If the game were pay to play, Anet would NEED to make sure that their current playerbase is happy, all the while find a way to attract more new players WITHOUT upsetting old players. That's how things are in WoW, Anarchy Online, Lineage 2, City of Heroes, etc.
Now for GW, Anet don't really need to care about those who've bought the game all that much (and evidently, they don't). Driving away old players = less server load. Attract new players = more money.
And that's why I'm glad to pay more for something better even if it has a monthly fee; I can be sure that they care about me while I'm playing, and not only BEFORE I pay.
If the game were pay to play, Anet would NEED to make sure that their current playerbase is happy, all the while find a way to attract more new players WITHOUT upsetting old players. That's how things are in WoW, Anarchy Online, Lineage 2, City of Heroes, etc.
Now for GW, Anet don't really need to care about those who've bought the game all that much (and evidently, they don't). Driving away old players = less server load. Attract new players = more money.
And that's why I'm glad to pay more for something better even if it has a monthly fee; I can be sure that they care about me while I'm playing, and not only BEFORE I pay.
HuntMaster Avatar
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Cacheelma
It's Anet's business model, really.
If the game were pay to play, Anet would NEED to make sure that their current playerbase is happy, all the while find a way to attract more new players WITHOUT upsetting old players. That's how things are in WoW, Anarchy Online, Lineage 2, City of Heroes, etc. Now for GW, Anet don't really need to care about those who've bought the game all that much (and evidently, they don't). Driving away old players = less server load. Attract new players = more money. And that's why I'm glad to pay more for another game. A better game. |
yum
Why do businesses want to make money?....
Hermos
I didn't even bother reading the OP. Change is a necessity in life. Deal with it. Events change, you (not intended towards the OP, but as a general yet informal pronoun) can't live inside a bubble whilst playing GW, some elements of the real world tend to pop up. :P
For example, economic issues. ANET wouldn't have sit by seeing countless W/Mo's enter the crystal desert slaying over 20 griffons in one go, only to get max damage q9 Fiery Dragon Swords to sell for 100k+eee. They didn't sit by when 55 monks were entering the UW, and you could see about 30 or so entering at one time in ToA ID1, where they'd slaughter every available mob that could and would drop an ectoplasm.
The same goes for the community as a whole. We won't sit by and watch our runs get nerfed. We'll accept it, but we'll make new builds. That's the entire point of GW... the dynamic playstyle that it has. And truly, that's what makes it great.
For others who didn't understand, Change ftw!
For example, economic issues. ANET wouldn't have sit by seeing countless W/Mo's enter the crystal desert slaying over 20 griffons in one go, only to get max damage q9 Fiery Dragon Swords to sell for 100k+eee. They didn't sit by when 55 monks were entering the UW, and you could see about 30 or so entering at one time in ToA ID1, where they'd slaughter every available mob that could and would drop an ectoplasm.
The same goes for the community as a whole. We won't sit by and watch our runs get nerfed. We'll accept it, but we'll make new builds. That's the entire point of GW... the dynamic playstyle that it has. And truly, that's what makes it great.
For others who didn't understand, Change ftw!
Avarre
The importance of being good at Guild Wars has been massively decreased, and if you can't see that you're probably one of the ones benefiting. Guild Wars was an experiment and an accidental success if anything - and I sometimes doubt ANet has a very solid vision of where they want to take the game.
Where they are taking it, is to serve the lowest common denominator rather than to emphasize the niche uniqueness of some of their original ideas.
Where they are taking it, is to serve the lowest common denominator rather than to emphasize the niche uniqueness of some of their original ideas.
Fril Estelin
IMHO the fact that the thread titles mentions "noobs" and not "newbs" indicates that either the OP is making a stupid amalgam between the two, or that he's not a veteran of net-speak but a net-noob himself.
Furthermore, why do you feel that "you" need Anet's favor? You had a f2p MMO with a lot of fun, and you want more more more?
Furthermore, why do you feel that "you" need Anet's favor? You had a f2p MMO with a lot of fun, and you want more more more?
Cacheelma
The more you use f2p as an excuse for being an inferior game, the more evidence to prove that this so-called business model will NEVER replace the pay-to-play model.
Bront
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Fril Estelin
IMHO the fact that the thread titles mentions "noobs" and not "newbs" indicates that either the OP is making a stupid amalgam between the two, or that he's not a veteran of net-speak but a net-noob himself.
Furthermore, why do you feel that "you" need Anet's favor? You had a f2p MMO with a lot of fun, and you want more more more? |
I've been a net junkie for years, and only learned of "Newbs" here.
Boren Supremecy
calm down its easy money now that z keys are worth more
Mist Walker Skarloc
It's money as everyone's said, pretty obvious really.
It's a shame, in a way I'd rather pay a monthly fee to ensure that ANet makes the game better for everyone, not just the newcomers buying the game.
It's a shame, in a way I'd rather pay a monthly fee to ensure that ANet makes the game better for everyone, not just the newcomers buying the game.
Juk3n
Who would have thought the introduction of just another chest opening title would bring out the B*tch in so called "Veterans" ? How the HELL does this 'CHEST OPENING TITLE' effect your Uber HA / GvG game?
IMO they did this so they could see all the Elitist "Veteran" Scum QQ MOAR and the /laugh at them in secret.
Punish Veterans?
I consider myself pretty Veteran pal, and i don't feel punished, 3 years and 3500 hours down the line im still having as much fun as i always have..go figure.
In the illustrious wourds of Anet employees everywhere
Kekekeke QQmoarnubkthxbai!11oneeleven
IMO they did this so they could see all the Elitist "Veteran" Scum QQ MOAR and the /laugh at them in secret.
Punish Veterans?
I consider myself pretty Veteran pal, and i don't feel punished, 3 years and 3500 hours down the line im still having as much fun as i always have..go figure.
In the illustrious wourds of Anet employees everywhere
Kekekeke QQmoarnubkthxbai!11oneeleven
Big_Daddy
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Thizzle
I see no point in silly things like KoABD or an emote because you spent 100,000,000 balthazar faction.
|
Magikarp
i've been playing for 3 years, and just now started playing one of my characters for maxed titles. who's the system favoring again? did you not get your birthday minis or bonus preorder items too? we get lots of perks others dont...
Taki
New blood, new money.
Why would anet care about 'veterans'? They spent your money long ago.
Why would anet care about 'veterans'? They spent your money long ago.
MithranArkanere
Oh, they also punish the noobs.
For example. You are a new player with Nightfall and EotN. That you receive as a gift.
You make a paragon and a dervish, you tried th other professions, but you decided you like most those two.
You like to collect armors and weapons most than anything in the game.
Then you get Factions and Prophecies without getting really informed about what are you going to find.
No skills... no armors... only end-game weapons... no inscriptions... disappointment.
See? Noobs can also get punished.
But more than punishing veterans or treating noobs. What I don't like in PvE is the 'stick to one character' feel that the HoM and many titles have brought.
In PvE, it doesn't matte the character that accomplish things, the player always gets titles. In PvE, out of achievements (Protector, Guardian, etc) most of the grind titles are character-based, so a player that likes all professions will be 'forced' to stick to one to concentrate efforts and fill the HoM, and once the HoM is filled with that character, he 'must' switch to another character and never come back to the previous.
The PvP way: "it doesn't matter the character, only the player" its WAY better.
For example. You are a new player with Nightfall and EotN. That you receive as a gift.
You make a paragon and a dervish, you tried th other professions, but you decided you like most those two.
You like to collect armors and weapons most than anything in the game.
Then you get Factions and Prophecies without getting really informed about what are you going to find.
No skills... no armors... only end-game weapons... no inscriptions... disappointment.
See? Noobs can also get punished.
But more than punishing veterans or treating noobs. What I don't like in PvE is the 'stick to one character' feel that the HoM and many titles have brought.
In PvE, it doesn't matte the character that accomplish things, the player always gets titles. In PvE, out of achievements (Protector, Guardian, etc) most of the grind titles are character-based, so a player that likes all professions will be 'forced' to stick to one to concentrate efforts and fill the HoM, and once the HoM is filled with that character, he 'must' switch to another character and never come back to the previous.
The PvP way: "it doesn't matter the character, only the player" its WAY better.
impoc
I only read the first post, but I laughed because there was a topic a week ago about someone complaining that newbies got punished because the veterans got the new birthday minipets and could sell them for lots of money
Burst Cancel
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Avarre
The importance of being good at Guild Wars has been massively decreased, and if you can't see that you're probably one of the ones benefiting. Guild Wars was an experiment and an accidental success if anything - and I sometimes doubt ANet has a very solid vision of where they want to take the game.
Where they are taking it, is to serve the lowest common denominator rather than to emphasize the niche uniqueness of some of their original ideas. |
The biggest issue is that their business model isn't conducive to caring about their loyal players. They need new players to survive, and people who've already paid are just a burden on their servers. People have pointed this out in the past, but most players never look into things like business models or strategy - and then they sit around and wonder why companies act the way they do.
HuntMaster Avatar
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Burst Cancel
QFT
The biggest issue is that their business model isn't conducive to caring about their loyal players. They need new players to survive, and people who've already paid are just a burden on their servers. People have pointed this out in the past, but most players never look into things like business models or strategy - and then they sit around and wonder why companies act the way they do. |
Burst Cancel
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by HuntMaster Avatar
Well then if the older players are burdens then count us out for gw2, why would we want to be treated the same in the next game. I mean by this logic they will give us want we want for a year then drive us out. If thats the way it is then I am skipping gw2 completely. Lets some other chump piss their money away. I learn from my mistakes and if anet is that two faced then buying an arenanet product was a mistake I will not make again.
|
The beauty of the system here is MMOs in general represent a sunk cost, but most consumers don't understand the concept of sunk cost (and even the ones who do generally can't resist throwing good money/time after bad). Once you've got people 'hooked', so to speak, you can be confident that a good portion of them will continue buying new releases just so they don't feel that their previous money/time spent was wasted.
There's a similar hook in EoTN for GW2 - the HoM. A lot of people will buy GW2 simply because they've got stuff in their HoM that they don't want to 'waste', stuff that they've probably spent a lot of time and effort on. And they will buy it even if they didn't really plan on playing GW2 originally. Consumers are easily manipulated this way, and even if a few people figure it out, it often doesn't matter in the face of all of the thousands of people who don't know or don't care.
I don't claim to know what Anet's actual thinking or motivations are (I've stated elsewhere, several times, that I really can't figure Anet out), and I'm no businessman. But, this is how the incentive play out in my point of view.
Mac Sidewinder
Why does it seem that everybody nowdays has this "What have you done for me lately" attitude towards Anet? Now I'm not a fanboy of anet but it seems to me that if you have been playing this game for very long then you certainly got your money's worth out of it. There are not too many games that hold people's attention like this one that you only have to pay for once.
I'm sure anet isn't trying to drive out the older players. For what reason would they? It's exactly the opposite. They want you to hang around long enough to eventually switch to GW2 when it comes out. It only hurts them to see people leave. Now in that same vein you have to consider that they have to try to attract more new players also so they try to appeal to them too. Its a very fine balancing act that some people just don't get.
As an older player if there are things you don't like then stay away from them. What is it hurting you? Is it pulling money out of your pocket? Is it making you less competitive in pvp? Or are you simply mad that your epeen is getting smaller because the new players have a chance to accomplish something also?
At the end of the day folks, remember that it is just a game that will disappear someday to be replaced by something else. Don't take it so seriously.
I'm sure anet isn't trying to drive out the older players. For what reason would they? It's exactly the opposite. They want you to hang around long enough to eventually switch to GW2 when it comes out. It only hurts them to see people leave. Now in that same vein you have to consider that they have to try to attract more new players also so they try to appeal to them too. Its a very fine balancing act that some people just don't get.
As an older player if there are things you don't like then stay away from them. What is it hurting you? Is it pulling money out of your pocket? Is it making you less competitive in pvp? Or are you simply mad that your epeen is getting smaller because the new players have a chance to accomplish something also?
At the end of the day folks, remember that it is just a game that will disappear someday to be replaced by something else. Don't take it so seriously.
Burst Cancel
Well, the 'balancing act' is keeping you just interested enough to buy the next game. If they can do that, their job is done.
But here's the thing: by now, they've realized that the veteran players are the smallest group, and are also more likely to stick with the game for the long haul because they're heavily invested. Furthermore, it's a lot easier for veteran players to leave the game and come back later, because they understand the game better. What this basically means is that Anet doesn't really have to work that hard to keep the veteran players - and they don't lose that much even if the veteran players leave.
The real money is in the casual player base, which is why you see so much effort being put there. They need to grab more players, and they need to keep them long enough to buy the next game. Casual players probably don't get hooked as easily, don't spend as much time, and probably aren't as likely to develop franchise loyalty - at least, not as likely as the veteran players. That means you've got to give them more attention.
Again, my take on the business aspect.
But here's the thing: by now, they've realized that the veteran players are the smallest group, and are also more likely to stick with the game for the long haul because they're heavily invested. Furthermore, it's a lot easier for veteran players to leave the game and come back later, because they understand the game better. What this basically means is that Anet doesn't really have to work that hard to keep the veteran players - and they don't lose that much even if the veteran players leave.
The real money is in the casual player base, which is why you see so much effort being put there. They need to grab more players, and they need to keep them long enough to buy the next game. Casual players probably don't get hooked as easily, don't spend as much time, and probably aren't as likely to develop franchise loyalty - at least, not as likely as the veteran players. That means you've got to give them more attention.
Again, my take on the business aspect.
Avarre
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Mac Sidewinder
Why does it seem that everybody nowdays has this "What have you done for me lately" attitude towards Anet? Now I'm not a fanboy of anet but it seems to me that if you have been playing this game for very long then you certainly got your money's worth out of it. There are not too many games that hold people's attention like this one that you only have to pay for once.
|
It's not as good as possible now.
knockturnal
My take isn't so much 'noobs vs vets', but it's one I've been discussing in Guild Chat lately with players who are 'older'.
I think the game has turned into a 'gratify me now' type of system. I remember when I started playing GW (in the days of refund points), and the environment then was just totally different. There were levels within the game itself; You didn't have to be wealthy to succeed, but the potential to be wealthy was there. There were elements in the game which were still 'rare'. There was excitement when you got 15k armor, excitement when you found a r13 Gold Fellblade in Thunderhead Keep, the importance of making it to Ember Light Camp, missions which were still actually a challenge and required well formulated builds to complete (THK being the big one), and the joy of making your first 100k.
Now its obvious that someone just starting the game will not know these things, but seeing the game as it is now, there really isn't much to 'work' towards. The economy has been wrecked and 'rare' now refers primarily to minipets. It's not about having 15k armor now but how many sets of it. And missions? You could sleep and make it through them. The days of adventure (which is what I fell in love with early on) are gone. Look at the detail work in the far reaches of Tyrian areas and then compare that to what's available in Factions, Nightfall, and EOTN, and you'll see it's nowhere NEAR the same level. Everything has progressively become 'dumbed down' to where it's a breeze. Not nearly as much cash is needed now to obtain 'rare' items as it once was and having 100k isn't needed unless you want to cap skills.
There have been good things added (heroes are quite frankly amazing), but the game has gone from adventure and taking weeks and weeks of leveling to the ability to level a character from 1-20 within 5 hours without any sort of assistance. I doubt many new players identify with their characters the way the older players do, because we had the pleasure of the experience rather than the instant gratification that has come with more recent games.
I look forward to gw2 purely because I'm hoping it regains that feel again. I hope they drop the slogan of 'a game that rewards skill and not time played' and adapt one that provides the sense of pleasure in LEARNING the game that existed when Guild Wars was released.
I think the game has turned into a 'gratify me now' type of system. I remember when I started playing GW (in the days of refund points), and the environment then was just totally different. There were levels within the game itself; You didn't have to be wealthy to succeed, but the potential to be wealthy was there. There were elements in the game which were still 'rare'. There was excitement when you got 15k armor, excitement when you found a r13 Gold Fellblade in Thunderhead Keep, the importance of making it to Ember Light Camp, missions which were still actually a challenge and required well formulated builds to complete (THK being the big one), and the joy of making your first 100k.
Now its obvious that someone just starting the game will not know these things, but seeing the game as it is now, there really isn't much to 'work' towards. The economy has been wrecked and 'rare' now refers primarily to minipets. It's not about having 15k armor now but how many sets of it. And missions? You could sleep and make it through them. The days of adventure (which is what I fell in love with early on) are gone. Look at the detail work in the far reaches of Tyrian areas and then compare that to what's available in Factions, Nightfall, and EOTN, and you'll see it's nowhere NEAR the same level. Everything has progressively become 'dumbed down' to where it's a breeze. Not nearly as much cash is needed now to obtain 'rare' items as it once was and having 100k isn't needed unless you want to cap skills.
There have been good things added (heroes are quite frankly amazing), but the game has gone from adventure and taking weeks and weeks of leveling to the ability to level a character from 1-20 within 5 hours without any sort of assistance. I doubt many new players identify with their characters the way the older players do, because we had the pleasure of the experience rather than the instant gratification that has come with more recent games.
I look forward to gw2 purely because I'm hoping it regains that feel again. I hope they drop the slogan of 'a game that rewards skill and not time played' and adapt one that provides the sense of pleasure in LEARNING the game that existed when Guild Wars was released.
C2K
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Mac Sidewinder
.
I'm sure anet isn't trying to drive out the older players. For what reason would they? It's exactly the opposite. They want you to hang around long enough to eventually switch to GW2 when it comes out. It only hurts them to see people leave. Now in that same vein you have to consider that they have to try to attract more new players also so they try to appeal to them too. Its a very fine balancing act that some people just don't get. |
odly
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by The Real Avalon
So, why does ANet favor the noobs and punish the veterans?
|
Fay Vert
The titles/emotes/double weekends/consumables are just easy ways to hook more players into grind wars. ANet wants grind wars because its a hell of a lot easier (and cheaper) to add grind than it is to add game. Expect GW2 to be Grind Wars Squared.