Rank 12 Zaishen Title - an Analysis - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

MarlinBackna

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2007

[TAM]

W/

10 May 2008 at 15:35 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

No, not really. People right now have stockpiles of keys that they've accumulated since they were released. So the time it took to get r9 is the time since keys were added to game. Multiply that by 5 to get the time till max rank.

You mean you are going to tell me that this guy had over 4000 keys already in his stores? Assuming he got it all with faction, thats over 20 million BFaction he would need to get that high, which not many people have, if there is even anyone with 20mil.

jiggles

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

N/

10 May 2008 at 15:39 - 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Dudenstein

Ah ... I see. But now that you mention it ... anyone that made that much ecto so early in the game's lifecycle probably did not hold onto it. It must have been very tempting to buy lots of cool stuff, most if which is now quite worthless.

reportedly the leader of [DVDF] is one rich mofo, but she wont confirm it. and there are a couple of people who are rich, like the first mini panda ever sold went for something like 32mil, the buyer mustve got the money some how

TK GWG

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2008

A/

10 May 2008 at 15:41 - 43

true and i still think that the title was a great idea, who cares if no1 maxes it

Frank Dudenstein

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

10 May 2008 at 15:41 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarlinBackna

You mean you are going to tell me that this guy had over 4000 keys already in his stores?

No, but high level GvGers had many thousands of reward points just sitting there. That's the nice thing about the reward point counter .. .you don't have to do anything. Just keep winning tournaments and it keeps going up. Those same people have been trading their faction for keys since available, and many of the are rich in PvE too. R9 is very doable to these people.

Magikarp

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2007

[HAWK]

10 May 2008 at 15:45 - 45

the title is another worthless gold sink, that takes even less talent than the emotes in HA to achieve. great. i love skill>time..

Celestial_Kitsune

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

Me/

10 May 2008 at 15:48 - 46

Crack is not supposed to be maxable.

viper11025

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2007

02/18/05 (Pm me with the place, its a riddle)

A/

10 May 2008 at 15:58 - 47

Personally I think rank 7 is when HoM should consider it an achivement.

Pleikki

WTB q8 15^50 Weapons!

Join Date: Nov 2006

???oo ???ugs ???lan [?????????]

10 May 2008 at 16:00 - 48

Ah darn loads thing changes in 10days i havent played.. So new title? o.O

MarlinBackna

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2007

[TAM]

W/

10 May 2008 at 16:02 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

the title is another worthless gold sink, that takes even less talent than the emotes in HA to achieve. great. i love skill>time..

I hope you sincerely do not think Anet thinks made this as a prestige title. This is meant only for fun, and it is very clear to me that it is that way.

Frank Dudenstein

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

10 May 2008 at 16:10 - 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

the title is another worthless gold sink, that takes even less talent than the emotes in HA to achieve. great. i love skill>time..

Ugh. You're about the 500th person I've heard describe this title as a gold sink. It is NOT.

A gold sink by definition is a mechanism by which gold LEAVES the game. This balances the fact that gold is constantly entering the game, and is intended to limit inflation.

Titles like this only transfer gold from one person to another - NOT a gold sink - just a fun diversion. IMO Guildwars could really use more true gold sinks.

Want a textbook gold sink? Gambling in Diablo2. You traded large amounts of gold for (usually) worthless crap. In GuildWars, FoW armor is a good example.

Grim Aragorn

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

A/

10 May 2008 at 16:14 - 51

the one thing u have to understand is when u open the chest you have odds of getting very rare items if ur opening it in such large amounts u have better odds , lets say u get an everlasting tonic, a voltaic etc etc u can almost make back about 1/4 or more of your money. You have to calculate that in their as well

my 2 cents.

Zen , OUT.

Dallcingi

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2006

USA

The Black Parades [死人死]

Mo/

10 May 2008 at 16:27 - 52

I see most top pvpers sell their z keys... like some guys in high end.
Most probably dont care about it but I guess maybe some do

pOmrAkkUn

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

Bangkok

Me/Mo

10 May 2008 at 16:29 - 53

hard core GvGer will get high rank very fast.

I play AT as guest for rank ~200-500 Guilds almost everyday (around 5-6 AT / week ) still manage to get 1 full stack of Z-Keys to sell every month.

Imagine about top rank Guilds who always win AT, how many Z-keys they gonna make .....

~ Dan ~

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2006

D/

10 May 2008 at 16:30 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiggles

because anet went to every single pve'er gave them about 100mil and said 'shushh dont tell the pvp'ers?' thought so, making money in pve isnt the simplest thing on the planet. before ursan (no im not going to whine about it) alot of people had ALOT of money anyways and to get that they put alot of time and effort into the game.

Great, they put time and effort into the game. Anyone can do that, all they have to do is have no life.

I will play AoC and earn things through skill, whilst you can stay on GW and grind for stupid text. Enjoy.

Quote:

and as for the dude that said about a title that isnt grind>skill. The gamer title track, if you leech in any of the matches your team is going to lose

Not true. Most of the people in the festival games are retards. If you are lacking one retard on your team - great! That's less points he'll give to the other team.

In dragon arena for example, 3 skilled players would beat 6 headless chickens. It was easy for people to leech gamer points.

BlueNovember

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

WTS GW2 items for Zkey

Mo/

10 May 2008 at 16:34 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiggles

like the first mini panda ever sold went for something like 32mil, the buyer mustve got the money some how

^_^
How do you even _trade_ 32 million. Other Minipets with a value greater than 250 ecto? Armbrace stacks (heh)?
Scary stuff.

I agree with the OP; the title works as a concept. A target for grind-lovers to go for, and a shiny emote for those that want. Everyone knows how simple it is to get the early ranks, so no point being bitter about people /zranking your corpse.

I disagree with the economics. Already there's way more sellers than buyers. I'd argue that many title hunters are only interested in GWAMM, so will dismiss this title as unmaxable. Coupled with the montly influx of TRPs I say keys will fall to ~4k within 2-3 months and be 3k or less by the end of the year.

X Tigercat X

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2008

Rt/

10 May 2008 at 16:51 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueNovember

I say keys will fall to ~4k within 2-3 months and be 3k or less by the end of the year.

I think the price of keys will consistently be between 4-5k each month because people will always be buying keys to get this months tonic or saving up a bunch for next months tonic.

English Warrior

LEET HAXXOR!

Join Date: Feb 2007

Random Arena

N/A

10 May 2008 at 17:02 - 57

R12 is hard to achieve so what R15 Is hard to achieve in HA i just think the ranks could have been made better instead of the allegiance ones>.>

oliverrr1989

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2008

Lore of Mythos [Myth]

D/

10 May 2008 at 17:06 - 58

Don't forget that if you were a rich PvEer wanting to burn 100 million on this, you would get a fair return from all those Z keys (rare skins, sweets, alcohol, tonics) so you'd probably get a few million back so it wouldn't be as simple as throwing the money away.

Musei Karasu

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2007

Mo/

10 May 2008 at 17:18 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Dudenstein

The hard part now is getting the next 75K starting at nothing.

Well they're not really starting at nothing. Gotta remember that they opened the chest 4000 times, that's a lot of stuff, and plenty of stuff to resell.

Chestnut

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Mo/Me

10 May 2008 at 17:27 - 60

I dont get it. I thought dupeing was fixed? your saying people can dupe keys?

StormDragonZ

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2008

New York

W/R

10 May 2008 at 17:31 - 61

I might just have to state some obvious words:

If you plan to get the title, best of luck to you.
If you plan to not get the title, then just don't.

If you plan to complain about how people are able to get a title by means of outside the game activity, just don't. In the end, let idiots be idiots and well mannered people do what they do too.

If you're not having fun, don't play the game.

Antheus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

10 May 2008 at 18:26 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormDragonZ

I might just have to state some obvious words:

If you plan to get the title, best of luck to you.
If you plan to not get the title, then just don't.

If you plan to complain about how people are able to get a title by means of outside the game activity, just don't. In the end, let idiots be idiots and well mannered people do what they do too.

If you're not having fun, don't play the game.

Do you know what NGE means?

There's a company out there that became infamous using this passive stance. To this day, every MMO developer keeps repeating they will never pull an NGE on their community.

There are lessons to be learned there. Shame that some still insist on repeating the same mistakes over and over.

Anet recently mentioned it as well. Oh, the irony....

Red Sonya

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

10 May 2008 at 18:42 - 63

NGE arghhhhhh did you have to even mention NGE omg omg omg the best game ever I played got hit by NGE and it tore me apart and ripped me to pieces and I swore NEVER EVER to play another pay to play game afterwards. Yes, it was SWG's who ruined many lives and gaming pleasures with an NGE. Still get a lil queazy everytime I see those letters.

BenjZee

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2006

The Overacheivers [Club]

Mo/

10 May 2008 at 19:42 - 64

a guru thread in which i read the whole of the first post ..welldone

LifeInfusion

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

in the midline

E/Mo

10 May 2008 at 20:37 - 65

thanks to anyone trying to max z title since I'm making a killing off the keys

garethporlest18

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

[HiDe]

W/

10 May 2008 at 20:38 - 66

I just want to say Frank, that people are selling keys for ectos as well, so it won't be that hard to turn ectos into keys as you can trade 1 for 1.

??? L??wLi????????? ???

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2007

Dela-where?

Demonic Rage [dr]

E/

10 May 2008 at 21:19 - 67

Dont know if anyone posted about this today, but theres a r10 in pre atm spamming there emote.

Frank Dudenstein

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

10 May 2008 at 21:25 - 68

Many posters have pointed out that I failed to factor in proceeds from the sale of the chest drops. I definitely missed this (I have only gotten crap from the chest so it never crossed my mind lol). But someone trying to max this title would inevitably get some rare stuff that could contribute quite alot of keys.

As such I have revised the OP with an estimate of 20% return. Honestly I can't see it being higher than that (that number is a guess based on some wikidata that I massaged).

BTW if anyone has good data regarding the true rate of return over a large number of drops, I will include that in my post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueNovember

I disagree with the economics. Already there's way more sellers than buyers. I'd argue that many title hunters are only interested in GWAMM, so will dismiss this title as unmaxable. Coupled with the montly influx of TRPs I say keys will fall to ~4k within 2-3 months and be 3k or less by the end of the year.

This is an excellent point - I know a large chunk of the population is spending all of its money on maxing titles, and since this one is basically unattainable it will not be on the list. However, the chest does offer some very unique stuff (especially the new everlasting tonics) and the current glut in supply is based on a 6+ month surplus. IMO demand and supply will come back into line preventing the precipitous drop you predict.

However your point is well taken ... I have modified the OP to a long-term estimate of 4.5 plat per key.

cosyfiep

are we there yet?

Join Date: Dec 2005

in a land far far away

guild? I am supposed to have a guild?

Rt/

10 May 2008 at 21:43 - 69

I think there are lots of people out there willing to sell off the keys they have gotten so far to those willing to buy this title....now how long it takes to get to the chest and open it and rinse repeat to get the title is more interesting to me than how people will manage to get enough keys to do said activity. .....

MoriaOrc

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2007

10 May 2008 at 23:12 - 70

About the difficulty of liquidating assets to get keys. Here's a thought:

WTT stacks of [250] Ectos for [250] ZKeys

Much faster, the people buying probably have lots of high-end currenct, and the people selling keys by the stack probably want high-end currency anyway. The numbers could be adjusted as the prices of the two change, but right now they're both at about 5k so 1:1 trades are a possibility. Trading keys for armbraces (maybe at 8 or 9 per stack) would also work. This way, the only things that would need to be liquidated would be rare minis or other "high end" goods with astronomical values (unless key sellers wanted these).

WTS Everlasting Ghost Tonic 300 ZKey?

What would be interesting (and probably never happen) is if ZKeys became another high-end currency on par with ectos

-Martian-

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

W/

10 May 2008 at 23:31 - 71

Quote:

Originally Posted by † LãwLiþøþ™ †

Dont know if anyone posted about this today, but theres a r10 in pre atm spamming there emote.

Oh My God...

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

10 May 2008 at 23:36 - 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by † LãwLiþøþ™ †

Dont know if anyone posted about this today, but theres a r10 in pre atm spamming there emote.

I think this pretty much owned all of that analysis.

I think ever since zaishen keys came out, I would've gotten around 10000 zaishen points for all the keys I got, if that gives a scale of how easy it is if you pool keys together in a guild.

??? L??wLi????????? ???

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2007

Dela-where?

Demonic Rage [dr]

E/

10 May 2008 at 23:50 - 73

well.. r10 is 7200 keys.... if u look on the zaishen drop forum..someone on there over i think 4444 keys but it was before the title was out..so i suppose it could be possible for someone to get thus only if they had been saving there keys

Frank Dudenstein

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

11 May 2008 at 01:50 - 74

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

I think ever since zaishen keys came out, I would've gotten around 10000 zaishen points for all the keys I got, if that gives a scale of how easy it is if you pool keys together in a guild.

This is something I toudhed on in the OP but probably didn't give enough merit.

You are in dR - you guys make loads of RP. If there are players in your guild (or any of the other top guilds) willing to give away or pool together their RP ... then yes the recipient could get to the top quickly.

RhanoctJocosa

Legendary Korean

Join Date: Aug 2006

The Benecia Renovatio [RenO]

W/

11 May 2008 at 02:13 - 75

selling 249 zkeys 12k ea

nkuvu

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

11 May 2008 at 02:33 - 76

Nice, informative post.

I don't PvP so I didn't realize how hard it would be to obtain the keys through Balthazar faction, and had no idea about the quantity of tournament reward points given out.

Thanks for the writeup.

Aba

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2006

Vancouver,Canada

11 May 2008 at 03:59 - 77

Quote:

selling 249 zkeys 12k ea

Funny thing is somewhere out there is saying
"OMFG what a great deal"

Martin Alvito

Older Than God (1)

Join Date: Aug 2006

Clan Dethryche [dth]

11 May 2008 at 04:00 - 78

The title is clearly aimed at high-end PvP-ers. Look, the whole point of the changes is clearly to provide SOME in-game reward of consequence for winning monthly ATs. Whether the PvP community decides to collect cash from PvE-ers or decides to pursue the title remains to be seen. I consider the former to be a more likely outcome, at least at first.

There's nothing wrong with this in principle. Clearly it's supposed to be an accomplishment to max that title.

As for buying the title - there are a lot more players out there with thousands or tens of thousands of ecto in assets than you all seem to think.

Someone will max this title quickly. There are enough players out there that could go on a massive spending spree to max this title that it's a virtual certainty that someone will choose to do so.

As for "legitimate" means of maxing it: you need 100 million Balth faction to do it purely with faction; Halls wins provide one key each, monthly AT wins provide 300, daily wins provide about 20.

If done purely with faction, you'd need 1,000,000 daily in faction to do it in just over three months. Eek. Key proceeds can defray that a bit; AT wins can knock a much larger hole in it. Still, figure over 30 months to get it done at the effective rate of 100k faction daily.

Chestnut

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Mo/Me

11 May 2008 at 14:01 - 79

lol Rank 10 might be around 7,000 keys.. but rank 12 is 200,000 keys.

so good luck anyone.

atleat I think it was 200,000..

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

11 May 2008 at 14:23 - 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by † LãwLiþøþ™ †

Dont know if anyone posted about this today, but theres a r10 in pre atm spamming there emote.

Nobody who earned their money the legit way would waste that kind of cash on a stupid title/emote.