Rank 12 Zaishen Title - an Analysis - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Arduin

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

The Netherlands

Limburgse Jagers [LJ]

R/

11 May 2008 at 14:52 - 81

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chestnut

lol Rank 10 might be around 7,000 keys.. but rank 12 is 200,000 keys.

so good luck anyone.

atleat I think it was 200,000..

It's 20.000, so that person is already over 1/3.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Nobody who earned their money the legit way would waste that kind of cash on a stupid title/emote.

Envy much? Why is it when people are spending lost of cash other people start calling them dupers/ebayers/younameit ?

Steboy93

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Feb 2007

Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] | Ex-Officer [TAM]

W/

11 May 2008 at 14:59 - 82

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chestnut

lol Rank 10 might be around 7,000 keys.. but rank 12 is 200,000 keys.

so good luck anyone.

atleat I think it was 200,000..

I believe it was 20,000 keys for max.

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

11 May 2008 at 15:03 - 83

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

It's 20.000, so that person is already over 1/3.

Envy much? Why is it when people are spending lost of cash other people start calling them dupers/ebayers/younameit ?

Envy? me? LOL

Don't you know

me>everyone else (legit wealth anyway)

Well use to be. Now I don't even have the game installed.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

11 May 2008 at 15:35 - 84

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Dudenstein

Nothing in PvE takes a great deal of skill ... and Anet wanted to make a Emote/Title accessible to PvE. Hence an emote that doesn't require alot of skill. Whats the problem with that?

Even the Hero title is more skillful.
All this does is leave out the people who do not alot of high-end PvP very frequently, or farm alot.

That is a big difference to farming in Sways for a while.

250k, to get the first rank of the title is stupid.
Not only that, but you don't have to use any of your skill whatsoever if you RA, AB, Zaishen, GvG (Resign at first match on first game), or farm.

Not only that, but this title seems like Anet shot themselves in the foot. They don't want gold selling? This title practically needs it in the case of buying gold.

Dronte

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Sep 2006

11 May 2008 at 15:37 - 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

It's 20.000, so that person is already over 1/3.

Envy much? Why is it when people are spending lost of cash other people start calling them dupers/ebayers/younameit ?

Actually, Malice is totally right.

??? L??wLi????????? ???

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2007

Dela-where?

Demonic Rage [dr]

E/

11 May 2008 at 15:42 - 86

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Nobody who earned their money the legit way would waste that kind of cash on a stupid title/emote.

I agree. Im tempted to pull up that name and ask them how they got r10 already.

kobey

GW Retiree

Join Date: Nov 2005

Sg Unknown [KATE]

W/

11 May 2008 at 15:45 - 87

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

Envy much? Why is it when people are spending lost of cash other people start calling them dupers/ebayers/younameit ?

When one made money the legit way (time + effort), it is very unlikely that he will spend it all on something which does not have any resale value. There are exceptions though.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

11 May 2008 at 16:08 - 88

Quote:

Originally Posted by kobey

When one made money the legit way (time + effort), it is very unlikely that he will spend it all on something which does not have any resale value. There are exceptions though.

Game account with max R zaishen has resale value. 15K dollars atm at least.

Still, it is bannable offence to sell account, ofc. Not work risking your legit wealth at all as 15k dollar auction of game account would be kinda hard to keep unnoticed.

Thizzle

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2008

11 May 2008 at 16:49 - 89

I didn't have to read to make this post.

Analysis: money sink.

RomBurns

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

Strike Force

Mo/Me

11 May 2008 at 16:54 - 90

Quote:

I didn't have to read to make this post.

Analysis: money sink.

You sir, lose the thread. No money is removed from the economy by the introduction of ZRank.

Thizzle

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2008

11 May 2008 at 16:58 - 91

Quote:

Originally Posted by RomBurns

You sir, lose the thread. No money is removed from the economy by the introduction of ZRank.

You sir, lose the thread as well. When did I say the economy? I didn't, I meant players individually or those hoping for r12 zaishen.

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

11 May 2008 at 16:59 - 92

It's an money sink for rich people. Granted a lot of that money is put back into the game. A lot of the Z-chest drops are utter crap which are either merched or sold unid for 500g each.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

11 May 2008 at 17:06 - 93

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thizzle

Analysis: money sink.

Money sink removes money from game, does not redistribute them.

This only redistributes money and produces huge amount of gold items.

---

Anyway, to op:

z-chest droprate gives people also 25% change on sweet title stuff and on booze.

20 000 opens produces :

5 000 cremes and
5 000 firewaters.
5 000 gold items.

you only need 3 334 of each to reach max rank of sweet tooth and drunkyard.

Anyone going for max Zrank would also naturally get two maxxed titles, halway through of those titles on another character and be halfway to maxing wisdom title. Also, he would get enough tomes to get all skillhunter titles (with 100 tome leeway)

You should substract value of this stuff from total cost if you do calculations, because maxing z-rank itself guarantees one 7 points towards koabd.

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

11 May 2008 at 17:08 - 94

Buying keys in bulk, for someone with the assets available, is going to be easier than the OP stated. Most of the players who would be winning a MAT are already rich, as mentioned. 4500 RPs worth of Zaishen Keys is about 4.5 million in gold; it would be impossible to sell them in that form. Stacks of Zaishen Keys will absolutely be available after MATs for stacks of ectos, armbraces, and rare minipets directly. When you take these direct sales in keys into account, getting to r12, if you have the assets, is going to happen sooner rather than later if someone is motivated.

makosi

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

"Pre-nerf" is incorrect. It's pre-buff.

Requirement Begins With R [notQ]

Me/

11 May 2008 at 17:11 - 95

So in theory it actually increases the gold in the economy.

The whole Zaishen title thing is probably just a ploy to seek and destroy the people who got rich off the back of the duping fiasco that weren't caught earlier. We all know some are out there.

The first person who gets R12 Zaishen will probably get a golden hammer, sword, axe, spear and a golden ban stick.

/endconspiracytheory

Thizzle

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2008

11 May 2008 at 17:17 - 96

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Money sink removes money from game, does not redistribute them.

This only redistributes money and produces huge amount of gold items.

---

Anyway, to op:

z-chest droprate gives people also 25% change on sweet title stuff and on booze.

20 000 opens produces :

5 000 cremes and
5 000 firewaters.
5 000 gold items.

you only need 3 334 of each to reach max rank of sweet tooth and drunkyard.

Anyone going for max Zrank would also naturally get two maxxed titles, halway through of those titles on another character and be halfway to maxing wisdom title. Also, he would get enough tomes to get all skillhunter titles (with 100 tome leeway)

You should substract value of this stuff from total cost if you do calculations, because maxing z-rank itself guarantees one 7 points towards koabd.

Ok, but I guess that changed my thoughts anyway. I guess it depends on what drops if it's a waste or not. If your good at HA or GvG then keys aren't a problem.

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

11 May 2008 at 18:00 - 97

LOL at the person who said Malice was envious.
That's like saying Bill Gates is envious of somebody buying 100 million dollars worth of lotto tickets.

Yol

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2007

GameAmp Guides [AMP]

E/

11 May 2008 at 18:35 - 98

When was the zaishen title revealed from going through the dat file? Is it possible that the players displaying the high tier zaishen title now had been saving keys since the title was revealed, and now that the title has been released they have decided to use them? With or without the additional use of purchased/copied/swapped keys.....

I don't really pvp and only got into the monthly tournament predictions thing a couple of months ago, so I don't know how many keys a decent PvP-er would have been able to get since the title was revealed.

FrAnt1c??

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2007

Belgium

Legion Of Sacred Light [LSL]

Mo/

11 May 2008 at 18:39 - 99

If there is a top pvp'er that hasnt used any of his/her reward points since the introduction of the system, that player would have gathered thousands and thousands of reward points easily.

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

11 May 2008 at 18:49 - 100

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Game account with max R zaishen has resale value. 15K dollars atm at least.

You would be very lucky to recoup 5% of that value on resale. People don't pay much for fancy titles; buying the Zaishen title is not an investment in any way, shape, or form.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

11 May 2008 at 20:22 - 101

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

LOL at the person who said Malice was envious.
That's like saying Bill Gates is envious of somebody buying 100 million dollars worth of lotto tickets.

Slap me and don't believe it, but I don't know of Malice's..."Cash".
Explanations gogo!

Voltaic Annihilator

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2008

E/Me

11 May 2008 at 21:02 - 102

Lets see, im gonna do some of my own math of how fast I could get the title ^_^, if i do grotto runs or some other mission runs for 3-4k ea and get at least 10k per run, lets say do 10 runs a day, 100k a day, 20 zaishen keys, need 20,000, 100mil for max title 100mil / 100k = 100 days of 10 runs a day for the next 100 days...about 4 months...someone please correct me if my math is wrong

EDIT: My math was wrong...its 1000 days not 100, so i would have to do 100 runs a day, which is like..impossible...

Elena

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Belgium

11 May 2008 at 21:26 - 103

don't forget possible double weekends

Randvek

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Rise From the Ashes [phnx]

W/

11 May 2008 at 21:33 - 104

It'll take years to attain, which is in-line with other pvp titles. Too bad we don't have years, eh?

Matrix

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2006

E/Me

11 May 2008 at 22:39 - 105

Very nice guide. Thanks. I did calculations for PvE side, but you made it clear from Pvp side as well.

Toxage

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

11 May 2008 at 22:50 - 106

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Slap me and don't believe it, but I don't know of Malice's..."Cash".
Explanations gogo!

I agree. I find it interesting how this Malice fellow claims to be "wealthiest player in game when I played". How do you know that? Did you evaluate the wealth of all the players of Guild Wars to come to that conclusion?

Not to mention not everyone uses guru.

Could you provide some evidence or support for your claims?

Back on topic. I am loving this update. I do a quick run of Zaishen elite, sell my key and get 5k during my morning routine before I go off. It's very easy money atm. I know 5k isn't a lot, but you just slap some Fire AOE skills + frozen soil and c space for a couple minutes....

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

11 May 2008 at 22:57 - 107

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Slap me and don't believe it, but I don't know of Malice's..."Cash".
Explanations gogo!

Spend cash to make more cash.

Simple example of this.

I bought 2xpanda at 900e each. I kept said panda until people were really hyped about them, and duped braces were in mainstrem trade. I then sold said panda for 1500e+250 armbraces each. Spend a little, earn a lot.

Spent 1800ecto, made 1200e+500armbraces. This was back when armbraces were going for 100k+xxxecto. Easy money.

People will complain about the morals of accepting duped braces, hence why they'll always be poor. Not like gold means shit in GW, but it was an interesting challenge to make myself rich. I achieved what I wanted in GW. Got extremely bored and deleted it all. So when someone says I'm envious of some scrub who spent some chump change on a useless PvE title, I laugh to myself.

AoC is next to see my goldly gold making talents

I'll leave now so you can openly flame my lack of game 'morals' lol

Maybe I'll publish my work. Making Online Gold For Dummies.

Back to downloading 13gb..joy

Dallcingi

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2006

USA

The Black Parades [死人死]

Mo/

11 May 2008 at 23:04 - 108

I think Anet will have double zaishen point/reward weekends so .......... yeah.
even if u dont think so it may just appear out of the blue (kinda like the title itself)
so if you want money but not right away i would keep your keys, the price on them might spike higher if a weekend does show up.

RomBurns

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

Strike Force

Mo/Me

11 May 2008 at 23:33 - 109

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thizzle

You sir, lose the thread as well. When did I say the economy? I didn't, I meant players individually or those hoping for r12 zaishen.

You didn't but check the wikipedia definition of a Gold Sink.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_sink

Crucial line. "The intent of a sink is to remove added value from the overall economy." - If that wasn't your meaning I suggest being more clear next time.

Hailey Anne

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

A/E

11 May 2008 at 23:57 - 110

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~ Dan ~

Yes. Who would've thought though, that they'd introduce an emote for one of the least skill based titles?

Great job? No, this is the problem. Someone could do alot of high-end PvP, have UAX and actually earn it. Whereas some pve scrub could've duped ambraces and bought the title.

The title is a joke.

hate to break it to you but most of the titles are a joke.
Hero/Glad titles alot of people get these on Hero/Glad weekends.
Not all but alot.
All PvE titles are pretty much a joke. It doesnt take skill for these it takes time.
So why should this one be any different?
The PvErs can have there "/rank" now.
So what let them.

Thizzle

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2008

12 May 2008 at 00:21 - 111

I think Malice does make a lot of sense if you want to take a gamle and put in the effot you can easily spend money and make more than you spent. This tactic works good sometimes, but other times it's a gamble.

X Tigercat X

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2008

Rt/

12 May 2008 at 01:59 - 112

i don't think people realize that to get rank 1 its approx 250k, I dont think many pvers willing to spend that much for a title that they wont get a +1 in KoaBD in

pOmrAkkUn

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

Bangkok

Me/Mo

12 May 2008 at 03:52 - 113

I think they will pay. normal PvEers can get 250k in 1-5 days and they always want the emote.

Neo Nugget

Site Contributor

Join Date: Jan 2006

R/

12 May 2008 at 04:16 - 114

Quote:

Originally Posted by pOmrAkkUn

I think they will pay. normal PvEers can get 250k in 1-5 days and they always want the emote.

That has got to be some pretty intense playing for 250k :O

Pleikki

WTB q8 15^50 Weapons!

Join Date: Nov 2006

???oo ???ugs ???lan [?????????]

12 May 2008 at 04:26 - 115

mm idd ~100k is done pretty easy for day but 250k uhm. But yeah i think ppl who like gamble will spent big amounths for that title IF they dont have anything else to buy.

Frank Dudenstein

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

12 May 2008 at 15:51 - 116

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Buying keys in bulk, for someone with the assets available, is going to be easier than the OP stated. Most of the players who would be winning a MAT are already rich, as mentioned. 4500 RPs worth of Zaishen Keys is about 4.5 million in gold; it would be impossible to sell them in that form. Stacks of Zaishen Keys will absolutely be available after MATs for stacks of ectos, armbraces, and rare minipets directly. When you take these direct sales in keys into account, getting to r12, if you have the assets, is going to happen sooner rather than later if someone is motivated.

Well, it all depends on how many RP Anet decides to give away for the monthly. We know that the winning team will put 7200 keys into the economy (assuming no one on the winning team is going for the title). Will the second/third/etc place teams get proportianly high amounts too? Or will they get the existing totals? Because 7200 is not that many given how many people seem to be going for this title. So yes, the MAT winners will be able to sell their keys in bulk, but I suspect that many people will be vying to buy them.

When the Title was released last week we were sitting on a 6+ month glut of ZKeys/RPs (PvPers had just been saving them up because there wasn't much to do with them) In only a few days that supply is already being stretched. For the next 2-3 weeks ZKeys are only going to trickle into the economy ... and I suspect the price will continue to go up. Then at the end of the month the MAT winners will arrive with their 7200 Keys... will this be met by a feeding frenzy?

So I agree with you that someone will likely get the title soon ... there are more people with the resources to do so than I originally suspected when I made the OP. But that person will probably be on the MAT winner or a friend of one. For many others, I think obtainig ZKeys in bulk will continue to be difficult.

Coraline Jones

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Modified Soul Society

Mo/R

12 May 2008 at 16:49 - 117

As an aside, I'm amazed that ArenaNet keeps putting in more and more junk into the game which isn't helping anybody. I can understand if they put in some new, bizarre money sink into the game. But Zaishen Keys and Year 3 Miniatures aren't money sinks, they are just get-rich-quick schemes for the extremely lucky. The money isn't pulled out of circulation, it just passes from one rich person to another. If ArenaNet wants to control the economy, they need to come up with a better plan.

I guess that I don't understand why ANet seems to think that the best way to liven up the game is to come up with crap that players just sell back and forth to each other. That's how RuneScape runs their game. Is that what Guild Wars wants to emulate?

obsidian ectoplasm

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2008

23 May 2008 at 23:59 - 118

I dont think it is the farmers that make money as Malice Black is talking about power trading they are the real rich guys

Lynyrd Skynyrd

Banned

Join Date: May 2008

24 May 2008 at 00:07 - 119

[quote=
Envy much? Why is it when people are spending lost of cash other people start calling them dupers/ebayers/younameit ?[/quote]

I giggled.

And Malice, there are no morals on the Internet, all Armbraces are/were fair game.

Jiao Yang

Lunar Rabbit

Join Date: Dec 2005

24 May 2008 at 00:22 - 120

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

AoC is next to see my goldly gold making talents

You really don't have to be that talented to make gold in Guild Wars. People who were around in the first 6 months of GWs were of course at an advantage though, as there were some stupidly easy ways of making money.

All you need is a bit of research and a bit of guts. Making profit is too easy.

Yesterday I took a punt and made about 750k within 30 minutes. A number of people make 2mil+ in high end trades, so do it regularly and 70 million isn't that bigger target.

Although, I think most of the super rich still playing made the majority of thier money a while ago. There will be a fair number of people who can realistically aim for R12 in this title.