Botters Do they really exist ? A simple idea to stop them.
Mewcatus
Seriously I have no idea how really bad it is in GW, but from my understanding, several good ideas like the one from this thread(below) drove up some concerns that it might serve to be a boon to Botters.
Mini-pets picking up gold
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10287920
I seriously think that the idea itself is good, but the concern is a possible valid consideration.
I have heard that Anet has put some anti-bot coding, like measuring rates at which items are picked up or bought or sold (Although I am not sure whether its true, not really seen it in real action, nor do I know whether it really runs ).
These type of coding, can be easily circumvented, simply by lowering sale/purchase items rates and item pick up rates. As such, from my perspective are actually not really that effective.
Before I move into the idea, a very short introduction. A bot is mainly an automaton, a program which runs by itself, without any human assistance. Its main aim is to allow the computer to complete a task effectively, probably even more efficiently then a human.
More advanced bots can even possess certain levels of AI, allow them to exhibit even more human like behaviour.
In the case of GW here, the bot is likely a farm bot, whereby it goes into a combat instance, kills, then picks up loot, go back into town, and repeat the process over and over again.
That being said, it can arguably be more efficient then a human, given that it is tireless and relentless.
But for all the effectiveness of a Bot, and the strength of its AI, it has still one major fault. Image recognition. Thus the idea to deal with Bots is a simple one. In fact, this idea is already in use. ( You see it in action, whenever you sign up for a new email account )
Thus my idea is this:
Upon entering any new instance, force the players to do a one time image verification entry similar to the one below
Image from Google Image email account creation verification system.
Edit: Simplier, yet more effective ideas.
1. A slow 3-D floating and revolving singular alphabet or a number. ( Please guys, don't tell me you cannot even recognise 1 of those right ? )
2. An image or a singular alphabet or number which is moving randomly in a confined space.
To the normal player, this is nothing more then a minute hindrance. After all, if you are a player of GWs, you can sure recognise letters and alphabets, and type out what you see accordingly.
Since it only occurs only upon entry of the instance, it won't impede any form of human game play greatly.
The reverse however can be said of a bot. For all its capabilities, even with the best AI nowadays, image recognition is not exactly its real strong point. A simple image verification system like this will severly cripple a bot, as chances are, it is unable to recognise what the numbers or letters are typed within the image.
While it won't stop botting 100% of the time, it would force a botter to have to constantly monitor every run a bot makes everytime it changes an instance.
That in essence in itself, impedes if not cripples him. As, the bot is NO longer as efficient as it seems.
Mini-pets picking up gold
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10287920
I seriously think that the idea itself is good, but the concern is a possible valid consideration.
I have heard that Anet has put some anti-bot coding, like measuring rates at which items are picked up or bought or sold (Although I am not sure whether its true, not really seen it in real action, nor do I know whether it really runs ).
These type of coding, can be easily circumvented, simply by lowering sale/purchase items rates and item pick up rates. As such, from my perspective are actually not really that effective.
Before I move into the idea, a very short introduction. A bot is mainly an automaton, a program which runs by itself, without any human assistance. Its main aim is to allow the computer to complete a task effectively, probably even more efficiently then a human.
More advanced bots can even possess certain levels of AI, allow them to exhibit even more human like behaviour.
In the case of GW here, the bot is likely a farm bot, whereby it goes into a combat instance, kills, then picks up loot, go back into town, and repeat the process over and over again.
That being said, it can arguably be more efficient then a human, given that it is tireless and relentless.
But for all the effectiveness of a Bot, and the strength of its AI, it has still one major fault. Image recognition. Thus the idea to deal with Bots is a simple one. In fact, this idea is already in use. ( You see it in action, whenever you sign up for a new email account )
Thus my idea is this:
Upon entering any new instance, force the players to do a one time image verification entry similar to the one below
Image from Google Image email account creation verification system.
Edit: Simplier, yet more effective ideas.
1. A slow 3-D floating and revolving singular alphabet or a number. ( Please guys, don't tell me you cannot even recognise 1 of those right ? )
2. An image or a singular alphabet or number which is moving randomly in a confined space.
To the normal player, this is nothing more then a minute hindrance. After all, if you are a player of GWs, you can sure recognise letters and alphabets, and type out what you see accordingly.
Since it only occurs only upon entry of the instance, it won't impede any form of human game play greatly.
The reverse however can be said of a bot. For all its capabilities, even with the best AI nowadays, image recognition is not exactly its real strong point. A simple image verification system like this will severly cripple a bot, as chances are, it is unable to recognise what the numbers or letters are typed within the image.
While it won't stop botting 100% of the time, it would force a botter to have to constantly monitor every run a bot makes everytime it changes an instance.
That in essence in itself, impedes if not cripples him. As, the bot is NO longer as efficient as it seems.
N1ghtstalker
oh god i hate those things
sometimes the image is so unclear i gotta do 5 tries before i'm even right -.-
those things are seriously annoying to fill in -.-
sometimes the image is so unclear i gotta do 5 tries before i'm even right -.-
those things are seriously annoying to fill in -.-
Mewcatus
Quote:
Originally Posted by N1ghtstalker
oh god i hate those things
sometimes the image is so unclear i gotta do 5 tries before i'm even right -.- those things are seriously annoying to fill in -.- |
Earth
I, and many others, will hate that.
Seriously, upon entering any new instance? I would probably smash my keyboard because I'm so annoyed with them after 3 of them.
Seriously, upon entering any new instance? I would probably smash my keyboard because I'm so annoyed with them after 3 of them.
Tatile
I'd feel sorry for people doing Raptor runs for festival items. Plus, I do a lot of exploring and Prophecies is usually a series of instances to the next outpost.
Gods, could you imagine what a Drok's run would be like?
Nice try, but a little off the mark. Points for originality, have a raisin cookie (blech).
/notsigned
Gods, could you imagine what a Drok's run would be like?
Nice try, but a little off the mark. Points for originality, have a raisin cookie (blech).
/notsigned
Elena
i'd go and play something else >.>
those things are evil
those things are evil
miskav
No,no,no,no >_>
Heck no.
I enter instances 100+times a day, and I'd defo quit if that happened.
Heck no.
I enter instances 100+times a day, and I'd defo quit if that happened.
xPIMPx
I hate botters, but not as much as I hate this idea of yours.
Mewcatus
It doesn't have to be a 15 letter/number sequence.
Just a simple 2 to 3 letter / number one would do. The main aim is to force a botter to actually have to sit in front of his monitor to execute an effective run.
Maybe per new instance is bad. But what about per click on the Merchant then ?
All in all, I just want to drive home the point:
Bot AI's often have lousy image verification capabilities. Making it verify certain letters and numbers, requires some really tough mathematical algorithms.
Just a simple 2 to 3 letter / number one would do. The main aim is to force a botter to actually have to sit in front of his monitor to execute an effective run.
Maybe per new instance is bad. But what about per click on the Merchant then ?
All in all, I just want to drive home the point:
Bot AI's often have lousy image verification capabilities. Making it verify certain letters and numbers, requires some really tough mathematical algorithms.
Earth
I click on merchants about 5 times every time I sell/buy something...
I wouldn't like it. I'm sure there has to be a simpler (and less annoying) solution.
I wouldn't like it. I'm sure there has to be a simpler (and less annoying) solution.
-rightuos-
no way, takes away from the roleplaying experience not to mention they are annoying.
How about Anet bans these supposed accounts i read alot about on here as "known sellers" If their known why are they still in the game...
How about Anet bans these supposed accounts i read alot about on here as "known sellers" If their known why are they still in the game...
RedStar
It could be a good idea.
But for me (and many other persons) it would be annoying...
Let's take a simple example : Raptor Farm (it's the fastest I think ~1.30min).
The first time it won't annoy you, but as you do it more and more it will become a torture and then you'll quit GW (I may be exaggerating a little).
The good point of that idea is that it will protect the Raptors xD.
But for me (and many other persons) it would be annoying...
Let's take a simple example : Raptor Farm (it's the fastest I think ~1.30min).
The first time it won't annoy you, but as you do it more and more it will become a torture and then you'll quit GW (I may be exaggerating a little).
The good point of that idea is that it will protect the Raptors xD.
Turbobusa
ho please chuck norris save us from this
[M]agna_[C]arta
Might be better if we add that while logging in to GW.
EinherjarMx
/NOTSIGNED
jeez, have you ever tried rapidshare's cats and dogs captcha? annoying as hell
jeez, have you ever tried rapidshare's cats and dogs captcha? annoying as hell
toastgodsupreme
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!
Captchas are RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing evil. And the day I enter one while playing a game, is the day I stop playing that game.
Captchas are RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing evil. And the day I enter one while playing a game, is the day I stop playing that game.
Yasuda
No =/
Would be pretty annoying if you FFF..
Would be pretty annoying if you FFF..
natural_Causes
/worstIDEAever
and I really mean that
and I really mean that
RotteN
hell no, wtf did you smoke ?
/notsigned
/notsigned
Savio
This is a game, not a website signup form. Losing unhappy players is a bigger concern than botters.
Riot Narita
F*** THAT!
You want me to type in a code every farming run? To make sure I'm not a bot?
I need to do over 8000 HFFF runs to max my Kurzick title. Add 1 second to each run and I'm facing an extra 133 hours of grind.
That's if I can recognise and type the code in 1 second. Probably it will take anything up to 5 seconds... meaning an extra 667 hours of grind. Just to prove I'm not a bot.
How about next time event items are dropping... you want me to type a code before every Raptor run? ie. every 60 seconds?
Like I said: F*** THAT! Even if you reduced the frequency, I'd rage quit for sure.
You want me to type in a code every farming run? To make sure I'm not a bot?
I need to do over 8000 HFFF runs to max my Kurzick title. Add 1 second to each run and I'm facing an extra 133 hours of grind.
That's if I can recognise and type the code in 1 second. Probably it will take anything up to 5 seconds... meaning an extra 667 hours of grind. Just to prove I'm not a bot.
How about next time event items are dropping... you want me to type a code before every Raptor run? ie. every 60 seconds?
Like I said: F*** THAT! Even if you reduced the frequency, I'd rage quit for sure.
Thizzle
This was a good laugh.
/notsigned.
/notsigned.
warcrap
these are pretty annoying but they would put a serious dent in bots.
the people disagreeing to this idea may even be bot owners themselves lol.
/signed
the people disagreeing to this idea may even be bot owners themselves lol.
/signed
capblye
/nosignsenor
Trax Reborn
horrible idea, dont punish us for what botters do.
Ekelon
The most advanced botters have been programmed to act like human players. So if you think about it, it gets really hard to differentiate the good ones (the ones you really are trying to get, because they do it the most and have done it the longest) purely by looking at their actions.
Nightmares Hammer
I swear I've saw one upside down...
/notsigned
/notsigned
gremlin
Presumably Bots have atypical play patterns to human players.
I mean some players may stay online for 3 days straight playing gw but its very unlikely.
Humans get tired and bored Bots do not.
Human movement patterns should vary, bots however well programmed will have a repeatable pattern or patterns.
These should be detectable.
Personally I'm not that worried by bots, if they close down the major ones and stop them having an effect on the economy all should be well.
Its about time too that some effects on the economy were not dependant on player actions.
Cannot we have a few minor or major disasters in game that drive the market rather than having prices based on what players buy and sell.
I mean some players may stay online for 3 days straight playing gw but its very unlikely.
Humans get tired and bored Bots do not.
Human movement patterns should vary, bots however well programmed will have a repeatable pattern or patterns.
These should be detectable.
Personally I'm not that worried by bots, if they close down the major ones and stop them having an effect on the economy all should be well.
Its about time too that some effects on the economy were not dependant on player actions.
Cannot we have a few minor or major disasters in game that drive the market rather than having prices based on what players buy and sell.
KomaTous
Hell NO if i have to do image verification ill quit... Cant stand those things worst idea of the year
/NOT SIGNED!!!
/NOT SIGNED!!!
Mystica
Worst idea EVER! Please... NO DRUGS before posting here.
pumpkin pie
never punish the true player/fans of a game , this idea reminds me of SecuROM lol,
/not signed
/not signed
tmakinen
Some sort of challenge that requires advanced mental processing could be implemented as a part of the game so that human players wouldn't even notice it but for bots it would be either an impassable hurdle or something that they could only overcome through time consuming trial and error, thus making them ineffective and exposing themselves to inspecting GMs.
However, Captchas are not the way to go.
However, Captchas are not the way to go.
Div
Imagine the poor blind kid who gets left behind on the UW run because he spent 20 minutes trying to get the right word
Does that mean people have to do this for PvP too, since there are quite a lot of bots in RA/AB/FA too. I can just imagine RA matches being 2v2 or something after this gets implemented :P
Does that mean people have to do this for PvP too, since there are quite a lot of bots in RA/AB/FA too. I can just imagine RA matches being 2v2 or something after this gets implemented :P
Etta
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinherjarMx
/NOTSIGNED
jeez, have you ever tried rapidshare's cats and dogs captcha? annoying as hell |
Pyro maniac
or maybe something like the Kings of Chaos site
Clicking one number..
It really isn't a bad idea tbh
Clicking one number..
It really isn't a bad idea tbh
Luminarus
Ughh, I would hate that beyond belief...
tmakinen
Just to float an idea about what could be done ... a 3D captcha which has multiple constantly rotating parts and which requires a certain action in a specific configuration. Trying the action outside the window of opportunity will result to a randomization of the system. Say, tumbling blocks that in one particular moment form a fungal wallow that must be clicked once the alignment is right. This kind of puzzle is pretty self-evident to real people but bots cannot crack it other than through trial and error because it requires advanced 3D pattern recognition.
This is just an example of something that could be implemented without it necessarily distracting from the in-game experience. Doesn't have to be a separate captcha, just something where you must react to visual cues on the screen as a part of the gameplay.
This is just an example of something that could be implemented without it necessarily distracting from the in-game experience. Doesn't have to be a separate captcha, just something where you must react to visual cues on the screen as a part of the gameplay.
Mewcatus
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmakinen
Just to float an idea about what could be done ... a 3D captcha which has multiple constantly rotating parts and which requires a certain action in a specific configuration. Trying the action outside the window of opportunity will result to a randomization of the system. Say, tumbling blocks that in one particular moment form a fungal wallow that must be clicked once the alignment is right. This kind of puzzle is pretty self-evident to real people but bots cannot crack it other than through trial and error because it requires advanced 3D pattern recognition.
This is just an example of something that could be implemented without it necessarily distracting from the in-game experience. Doesn't have to be a separate captcha, just something where you must react to visual cues on the screen as a part of the gameplay. |
All in all I am just throwing out the idea of a captcha, but it is not necessarily be so. ( I thank tmakinen for the additional idea as well as the one mentioned by Pyro maniac )
I just to place place emphasis on this:
1. Any form of anti-bot coding done so far, focuses too much on the strengths of a bot.
2. Instead this should take a step back, in favour of an analyze of what a Bot is flawed at doing, in comparision with actual human players.
As mentioned by them, just a singular 3-D image number / alphabet, would could seriously cripple, if not incapitate a bot.
( I am also very sure, Bot AI ability of audio recognition and analysis is way inferior in comparision to a Human Being, but lets put that on the back bench for now. )
DarkBahamut
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinherjarMx
/NOTSIGNED
jeez, have you ever tried rapidshare's cats and dogs captcha? annoying as hell |
/notsigned
Turbobusa
You should apply for a job at Electronic arts!