Botters Do they really exist ? A simple idea to stop them.

Mewcatus

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2008

R/Rt

Seriously I have no idea how really bad it is in GW, but from my understanding, several good ideas like the one from this thread(below) drove up some concerns that it might serve to be a boon to Botters.

Mini-pets picking up gold
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10287920

I seriously think that the idea itself is good, but the concern is a possible valid consideration.


I have heard that Anet has put some anti-bot coding, like measuring rates at which items are picked up or bought or sold (Although I am not sure whether its true, not really seen it in real action, nor do I know whether it really runs ).

These type of coding, can be easily circumvented, simply by lowering sale/purchase items rates and item pick up rates. As such, from my perspective are actually not really that effective.

Before I move into the idea, a very short introduction. A bot is mainly an automaton, a program which runs by itself, without any human assistance. Its main aim is to allow the computer to complete a task effectively, probably even more efficiently then a human.

More advanced bots can even possess certain levels of AI, allow them to exhibit even more human like behaviour.

In the case of GW here, the bot is likely a farm bot, whereby it goes into a combat instance, kills, then picks up loot, go back into town, and repeat the process over and over again.

That being said, it can arguably be more efficient then a human, given that it is tireless and relentless.

But for all the effectiveness of a Bot, and the strength of its AI, it has still one major fault. Image recognition. Thus the idea to deal with Bots is a simple one. In fact, this idea is already in use. ( You see it in action, whenever you sign up for a new email account )

Thus my idea is this:
Upon entering any new instance, force the players to do a one time image verification entry similar to the one below

Image from Google Image email account creation verification system.

Edit: Simplier, yet more effective ideas.

1. A slow 3-D floating and revolving singular alphabet or a number. ( Please guys, don't tell me you cannot even recognise 1 of those right ? )

2. An image or a singular alphabet or number which is moving randomly in a confined space.

To the normal player, this is nothing more then a minute hindrance. After all, if you are a player of GWs, you can sure recognise letters and alphabets, and type out what you see accordingly.

Since it only occurs only upon entry of the instance, it won't impede any form of human game play greatly.

The reverse however can be said of a bot. For all its capabilities, even with the best AI nowadays, image recognition is not exactly its real strong point. A simple image verification system like this will severly cripple a bot, as chances are, it is unable to recognise what the numbers or letters are typed within the image.

While it won't stop botting 100% of the time, it would force a botter to have to constantly monitor every run a bot makes everytime it changes an instance.

That in essence in itself, impedes if not cripples him. As, the bot is NO longer as efficient as it seems.

N1ghtstalker

N1ghtstalker

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2007

E/

oh god i hate those things
sometimes the image is so unclear i gotta do 5 tries before i'm even right -.-
those things are seriously annoying to fill in -.-

Mewcatus

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2008

R/Rt

Quote:
Originally Posted by N1ghtstalker
oh god i hate those things
sometimes the image is so unclear i gotta do 5 tries before i'm even right -.-
those things are seriously annoying to fill in -.-
If you have a hard time, imagine what type of image recognition program an AI has to possess to be able to do it

Earth

Earth

Always Outnumbered

Join Date: Jul 2006

I, and many others, will hate that.

Seriously, upon entering any new instance? I would probably smash my keyboard because I'm so annoyed with them after 3 of them.

Tatile

Tatile

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

Stygian Disciples of Tenebrasus

N/Me

I'd feel sorry for people doing Raptor runs for festival items. Plus, I do a lot of exploring and Prophecies is usually a series of instances to the next outpost.

Gods, could you imagine what a Drok's run would be like?
Nice try, but a little off the mark. Points for originality, have a raisin cookie (blech).

/notsigned

Elena

Elena

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Belgium

i'd go and play something else >.>

those things are evil

miskav

miskav

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

None

Mo/

No,no,no,no >_>
Heck no.
I enter instances 100+times a day, and I'd defo quit if that happened.

xPIMPx

xPIMPx

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Uk

Hmmm Defrosted Cat [Poo]

W/A

I hate botters, but not as much as I hate this idea of yours.

Mewcatus

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2008

R/Rt

It doesn't have to be a 15 letter/number sequence.

Just a simple 2 to 3 letter / number one would do. The main aim is to force a botter to actually have to sit in front of his monitor to execute an effective run.

Maybe per new instance is bad. But what about per click on the Merchant then ?

All in all, I just want to drive home the point:

Bot AI's often have lousy image verification capabilities. Making it verify certain letters and numbers, requires some really tough mathematical algorithms.

Earth

Earth

Always Outnumbered

Join Date: Jul 2006

I click on merchants about 5 times every time I sell/buy something...

I wouldn't like it. I'm sure there has to be a simpler (and less annoying) solution.

-rightuos-

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2008

no way, takes away from the roleplaying experience not to mention they are annoying.

How about Anet bans these supposed accounts i read alot about on here as "known sellers" If their known why are they still in the game...

RedStar

RedStar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2007

_____________________ (\__/) (\__/) (\__/)Help (='.'=)(='.'=)(='.'=)Bunny (")_(")(")_(")(")_(")

[Bomb]

E/

It could be a good idea.
But for me (and many other persons) it would be annoying...

Let's take a simple example : Raptor Farm (it's the fastest I think ~1.30min).
The first time it won't annoy you, but as you do it more and more it will become a torture and then you'll quit GW (I may be exaggerating a little).

The good point of that idea is that it will protect the Raptors xD.

Turbobusa

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

By the Luxon Scavenger

The Mentalists [THPK]

N/

ho please chuck norris save us from this

[M]agna_[C]arta

[M]agna_[C]arta

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2007

Philippines, LSGH

Legions of the Golden Aguila [PNOY]

A/D

Might be better if we add that while logging in to GW.

EinherjarMx

EinherjarMx

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

Mexico

La Legion del Dragon [LD]

E/

/NOTSIGNED

jeez, have you ever tried rapidshare's cats and dogs captcha? annoying as hell

toastgodsupreme

toastgodsupreme

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

United States

Me/

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!

Captchas are RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing evil. And the day I enter one while playing a game, is the day I stop playing that game.

Yasuda

Yasuda

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2006

Favorable Winds [Gust]

W/

No =/

Would be pretty annoying if you FFF..

natural_Causes

natural_Causes

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2008

Hall of Monuments

N/

/worstIDEAever
and I really mean that

RotteN

RotteN

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

W/

hell no, wtf did you smoke ?

/notsigned

Savio

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

This is a game, not a website signup form. Losing unhappy players is a bigger concern than botters.

Riot Narita

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

F*** THAT!

You want me to type in a code every farming run? To make sure I'm not a bot?

I need to do over 8000 HFFF runs to max my Kurzick title. Add 1 second to each run and I'm facing an extra 133 hours of grind.

That's if I can recognise and type the code in 1 second. Probably it will take anything up to 5 seconds... meaning an extra 667 hours of grind. Just to prove I'm not a bot.

How about next time event items are dropping... you want me to type a code before every Raptor run? ie. every 60 seconds?

Like I said: F*** THAT! Even if you reduced the frequency, I'd rage quit for sure.

Thizzle

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2008

This was a good laugh.

/notsigned.

warcrap

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2007

somewhere on earth!

E/Me

these are pretty annoying but they would put a serious dent in bots.
the people disagreeing to this idea may even be bot owners themselves lol.
/signed

capblye

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2007

KoH

W/N

/nosignsenor

Trax Reborn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2006

Michigan

wgk

W/

horrible idea, dont punish us for what botters do.

Ekelon

Ekelon

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Rebel Rising [rawr]

A/W

The most advanced botters have been programmed to act like human players. So if you think about it, it gets really hard to differentiate the good ones (the ones you really are trying to get, because they do it the most and have done it the longest) purely by looking at their actions.

Nightmares Hammer

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2007

W/

I swear I've saw one upside down...

/notsigned

gremlin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2006

GWAR

Me/Mo

Presumably Bots have atypical play patterns to human players.

I mean some players may stay online for 3 days straight playing gw but its very unlikely.
Humans get tired and bored Bots do not.

Human movement patterns should vary, bots however well programmed will have a repeatable pattern or patterns.
These should be detectable.

Personally I'm not that worried by bots, if they close down the major ones and stop them having an effect on the economy all should be well.

Its about time too that some effects on the economy were not dependant on player actions.
Cannot we have a few minor or major disasters in game that drive the market rather than having prices based on what players buy and sell.

KomaTous

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2008

E/Me

Hell NO if i have to do image verification ill quit... Cant stand those things worst idea of the year

/NOT SIGNED!!!

Mystica

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Germany

[金金金金]

Me/W

Worst idea EVER! Please... NO DRUGS before posting here.

pumpkin pie

pumpkin pie

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

behind you

bumble bee

E/

never punish the true player/fans of a game , this idea reminds me of SecuROM lol,

/not signed

tmakinen

tmakinen

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

www.mybearfriend.net

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

E/

Some sort of challenge that requires advanced mental processing could be implemented as a part of the game so that human players wouldn't even notice it but for bots it would be either an impassable hurdle or something that they could only overcome through time consuming trial and error, thus making them ineffective and exposing themselves to inspecting GMs.

However, Captchas are not the way to go.

Div

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

Imagine the poor blind kid who gets left behind on the UW run because he spent 20 minutes trying to get the right word

Does that mean people have to do this for PvP too, since there are quite a lot of bots in RA/AB/FA too. I can just imagine RA matches being 2v2 or something after this gets implemented :P

Etta

Etta

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Mancland, British Empire

Quote:
Originally Posted by EinherjarMx
/NOTSIGNED

jeez, have you ever tried rapidshare's cats and dogs captcha? annoying as hell
Oh Christ, yeah. Happened to me just last night, the picture were so unclear, took me bloody ages to get the file. If this gonna happen in GW then a lot of people'd go bye bye.

Pyro maniac

Pyro maniac

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

or maybe something like the Kings of Chaos site
Clicking one number..

It really isn't a bad idea tbh

Luminarus

Luminarus

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Aug 2007

Sydney, Australia

Haze of Light [pure]

R/

Ughh, I would hate that beyond belief...

tmakinen

tmakinen

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

www.mybearfriend.net

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

E/

Just to float an idea about what could be done ... a 3D captcha which has multiple constantly rotating parts and which requires a certain action in a specific configuration. Trying the action outside the window of opportunity will result to a randomization of the system. Say, tumbling blocks that in one particular moment form a fungal wallow that must be clicked once the alignment is right. This kind of puzzle is pretty self-evident to real people but bots cannot crack it other than through trial and error because it requires advanced 3D pattern recognition.

This is just an example of something that could be implemented without it necessarily distracting from the in-game experience. Doesn't have to be a separate captcha, just something where you must react to visual cues on the screen as a part of the gameplay.

Mewcatus

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2008

R/Rt

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmakinen
Just to float an idea about what could be done ... a 3D captcha which has multiple constantly rotating parts and which requires a certain action in a specific configuration. Trying the action outside the window of opportunity will result to a randomization of the system. Say, tumbling blocks that in one particular moment form a fungal wallow that must be clicked once the alignment is right. This kind of puzzle is pretty self-evident to real people but bots cannot crack it other than through trial and error because it requires advanced 3D pattern recognition.

This is just an example of something that could be implemented without it necessarily distracting from the in-game experience. Doesn't have to be a separate captcha, just something where you must react to visual cues on the screen as a part of the gameplay.
Thank You ! Finally someone who understands my main driving points, kudos to all the others within this thread who gave me some type of backing.

All in all I am just throwing out the idea of a captcha, but it is not necessarily be so. ( I thank tmakinen for the additional idea as well as the one mentioned by Pyro maniac )

I just to place place emphasis on this:

1. Any form of anti-bot coding done so far, focuses too much on the strengths of a bot.

2. Instead this should take a step back, in favour of an analyze of what a Bot is flawed at doing, in comparision with actual human players.


As mentioned by them, just a singular 3-D image number / alphabet, would could seriously cripple, if not incapitate a bot.

( I am also very sure, Bot AI ability of audio recognition and analysis is way inferior in comparision to a Human Being, but lets put that on the back bench for now. )

DarkBahamut

DarkBahamut

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2006

Italy

Wlpr

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by EinherjarMx
/NOTSIGNED

jeez, have you ever tried rapidshare's cats and dogs captcha? annoying as hell
LMAO! Yes I hate them! I once tried 5 times to download a thing from there, but the letters were all unreadable, I gave up after that!

/notsigned

Turbobusa

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

By the Luxon Scavenger

The Mentalists [THPK]

N/

You should apply for a job at Electronic arts!