Tiered Heros Ascent

I think the reason HA died is because the title and rank systym (which I like) makes it very hard for new people to get into HA and as the experienced people get tired of playing and move on there is no one to replace them.

Implementing a tiered system into HA would fix this. What I mean by this is making different instances of HA that players would be ported to depending on their rank. R1-2 groups would go to one instance of HA, 3-5 to another, 5-7another, 7-9 another, 9-12 another, and they would only fight other teams of the same group of ranks. This way unranked people would fight unranked people and the R9-12 groups will fight R9-12 groups.

This way new players could come into the game.

The way it was in HA for a very long time was new players would come in and join unranked groups because its was pretty much impossible for and unranked person to get into a ranked group in HA, while the ranked groups would be forming in the same HA. Then you put the unranked groups against like R6 and up groups and the unrankeds just get destroyed, the group falls apart, and the search for a new group begins, while the ranked groups just keep on rolling and snowballing their fame. Newbies players spend more time looking for groups than actually playing and its very frustrating. Lots of them just give up on HA altogther and leave, hence the dying and in some areas already dead PvP community.

Since the HA title is account wide this wouldnt be an exploitable feature (i.e., a rank 9 guild all creating new players to dominate the unranked HA for fame, chest loot, or whatever, lol)

HA is already so dead that this might not even bring it back but if something like this had been implemented early on HA might still be alive and running strong, so this is not a bad thing to suggest for GW2 if there is going to be a HA in GW2.

This was suggested,/signed and ignored. So this thread will do.

There aren't enough HA'ers to make this effective

problems:

if it doesn't end up bringing people back, the playerbase gets spread too thin and no one gets fame. (final nail in the coffin for HA)

guilds with players of seperate ranks can no longer form teams.

very few matches for the higher ups to play, and with the amount of fame they need per rank, they'll soon lose interest as the grind becomes too time consuming.

seperate HoH's?
if so, influx of chests opening and lower item values, complaining that lower ranks have an easy way to get the HoH chest, and higher ranks smurfing alternate accounts to farm low rank HoH.
if not, complaining that the seprate HA's don't offer fair returns/rewards because noobs are still pitted against high ranked groups.

just overall, too many flaws.
/notsigned

/signed,

shru does point out some good suggestion, so when this is implemented should take those into consideration.

The only thing that will fix HA is for people to stop caring about rank with groups. This won't happen. Sorry.

I guarantee most of these people who are forced to spend hours to PuG/etc to get their bambi will start excluding every single person under R3 afterwards and forget that they used to complain about it, because they will feel they earned their spot.

To me, someone who spends the time, effort, crap to grind to R3 gets the honor of finding groups easier and will be a better player than the one who leeches off of a good group to gain their rank.

It's not even that hard to earn fame. I earned a 1 point of fame running a very stupid randomway in about 30 minutes time the other night. We were blessed enough yes to have extremely good monks (one who eventually /rank'd his tiger at us), but they didn't care. It was a challenge to them as they said to try and see how complete randomness can do anything. And trust me, we were random.

We won 1 match vs. Ranger spike type team (I think they varied it a tad bit) w/

1 Mo/Me PvE Smiter build
1 W/Mo Whiling Chop/Cyclone Axe/Live Vic/Balth Spirit/Vig Spirit farming build(lol)
3 R/D escape scythe's
1 E/Mo Searing Flames
2 Mo's (1 was HB, dunno the other)

We rushed a team of ranger spike and we were pressuring everyone so much that the monks on their team were too burdened with healing others and themselves to completely outheal some of the damage. We'd call 1 target and spike it then return to pressuring everyone, spike, etc. Worked well.

Anything can work in HA, and fame can be gotten in many ways. Just remember to have fun doing it, and always be looking at teams that beat you to see what they did right and what you did wrong and fix it next time.

I seem to be going back on what I have always posted before in this post, but, I now feel 100% that the HA system is not broken. It's perfect in my opinion. You must earn your R3 to display it, and are rewarded by other players who do R3+ groups. You are not going to learn HA by leeching, just like leeching in PvE is not going to teach you how to play.

/not signed

This lame ass idea gets suggested ATLEAST once a month, search button FTW.

Anyway, all those people who are r9 - r12, guess what? They were r0 once just like you, except instead of saying "WHAAAA, mommy make easier, QQ" they tried harder, well or atleast got good at the FotM gimmick.

Bottom line don't be lazy and try.

what he said.

been suggested before.

when those r9 and r12 people are r0 they fight r0 :P~ so instead of saying people go WAHHHHHHHHH think of why people go WAHHHHHHHH

In order to actually bring people back to HA, a more creative idea has to come around sadly, although I don't disagree with such an idea, it will hurt those who like playing with low/higher ranks. Also, ranks has nearly nothing to do with how good a person is, they just know the maps with higher ranks.

What really needs to be done would be a better reward system and/or better challenges, along with people getting it through their thick head that that rank =/= how good the person is. I joined a group of r7-10s for one match and they all nearly died instantly, I ended up being the last alive, and that was my first time playing HA.

People get R6, 7, 8, 9, 10 and more EVERYDAY, It's not like the ONLY people to be r6 plus are the one's who have played since beta.
It's not hard it just takes time and effort, well really it doesn't even take time and effort these days, a few minutes to get in an SWAY group, win the first map 10 or 15 times over the corse of 2-3 hours, rinse repeat on a daily basis.

Beside as I've said before, you learn NOTHING from winning a match vs other rank 0 people, so once you roll your way up to r6 from your "Tiered HoH" you still suck cause you got all that fame against clueless ding dongs like yourself. Of course everyone else at that level is a dipshit too by that line of thinking, which in turn reduces HA into an even bigger form of retardation.

Is that what your looking for?

people go "WHHHHAAAA" cause it's hard and in the day and age we live in, lazy is king and hard just is not something that is done, not even in video games it seems.

Well, in case you havent noticed there is no new blood flowing into HA and it is deader than it has ever been. Before you go off on another one of your 2y/o like tantrum hissy fits crying to your mummy just realize that the OP was completey over your head as far I can tell from your response because you missed the point completely as well as the guy from fear or whatever.

Its not about being lazy, its about making the game easier to play for people that have a real life. To most people playing a video game is not work and thats not why they play. Only hardcore losers have the time it takes to mess with HA the way it is now, hence the dead HA scene. Either get rid of the title crap or tier it to make it easier to get new players into it, or come up with a better idea to fix it. Otherwise its soon to become extinct.

As I said I like the title system its just the idiots that play this game that have turned into a bad thing. I dont think A net intened for it to be what the hardcore crowd turned it into. It goes against one of the principles that guildwars was built on which was a mmorpg that real everyday people could get into because actual ingame skill would be more important than time spent ingame. The title system goes against that because when people are forming groups based on rank or title the time spent in the game becomes more important than the skill playing the game. It doesnt take very long to lean any concept in this game and learn how to run a skill bar.

The suggestion is not perfect and there were some valid points brought up that could be resolved.

1) not enogh people for higher up groups.

Make it so if there are no high ranked groups to fight the highest ranked team fights the next highest ranked.

2) Guilds or Alliances of Different Ranks wont be able to do HA together. Also people that just form groups of many different rank levls.

Let them into the group but make them fight in the tier of the highest ranked player on the team. (If there is a R 9 in the group they fight in the R9-12 tier)

I doubt people will pay for another account to dominate the lowest tier HA.

Saying that R0s cant learn from fighting R0s is just stupid. They will learn better fighting against people of the same experience level. HA is about teamwork and saying that R0s that have barely or never played HA can learn something from going up against a R12 team is like saying a pewee football team could learn something from playing against a team of professionals.

Anyway, its about getting more people into HA so please keep it about that. Dont turn it into a Oh Waaa or rant fest.

I don't see where I had any tantum hissy fits, I mearly said other people do when things are hard. ANd the post is not over my head, it's just the exact same thing that gets posted every month by people who just can't seem to get that bambi.

There is no new blood in HA because it's A) borening B)no new content C) 90% of it is SWAY D) Anet says title grind and fill you HoM, so thats what the PvEers are doing instead of testing new waters like HA.

rank 0 vs rank 0, all new to HA, how many of those teams are going to enter with a decent synergizing team build? (notice I didn't even say good build) the answer is none, Someone says "forming r0 tier group" he gets 8 people and hits enter, never asks if folks are even ready. But they happen to beat the other team that did the exact same thing,(after a 3 min EPIC battle with the Zashien)

So how does an r0 learn from an r12? Well by paying attention to what team build they have and what skills they use, it's not hard. Say your playing Warrior at r0 and ya'll go in and your dead in 11 seconds cause you guys have one Monk and a Derv who says "I can heal better than Monks" now while you lay there dead, you target an enemy Warrior and watch what he's doing, and learn. But if your raging instead of learning then I can see why you think HA is soooo hard.

That is something that will not happen in tierd HA.


I have 2 accounts, one is r0, and yes I would use it in Tiered HA on the r0 tier, and I would be teamed with others on their secondary accounts rolling smacktards who arent leanring anthing and are just there thinking "Oh, tiered HA, free bambi" I would do this because with the sale price of ZKeys right now it would be silly not to do it.

When it comes to pairing people into teams of similar skill level, only Halo 3 (Xbox 360 game) does it right. The design in GW where a R10 can play against a new HA'er is purely bad design which the GW developers will need to take into account for GW2.

That said, it is too late to re-design it all.

Although in Halo 3, via custom games, you could invite your friend who is new to Halo 3, play a ranked game with you. (even if he's level 1, and you are level 40). You do this at your own risk though as opponents will be in the skill range 36-44.

There are two ways to progress in Halo 3:

1. Skill level (goes from lvl 1-50) (points awarded based on activities, medals in game, most valued player, kills in game)
2. Experience: Goes from Rookie to Admiral (points awarded based on wins alone)

And oh yes, ALL halo 3 players have the same armor level (although they might look different) and have access to the same weapons in game. Yet, high level players always dominate the scene.

what he said....
cause you gotta work your way up there u know. make yourself stand out.

Actually I've been seeing more Balance & Ranger spike than sway lately. Not to say there's not any Sway out there, just not as much as you are so obviously overexaggerating about.

i'd say just reduce the retarded grind of this title, raise the fame reward system so that you earn quicker fame and I'm sure alot more people would start playing HA, especially PvE'ers

The hero title is so much grind, that you have to grind over 3 years for it to have a chance to max the title, thats just way to insane of grind and has to be reduced imo to maximum effort of say 1 to 1 and a half year, but not any longer....

The title is just only a horrible grind, because the reward system for fame points is simple bad. If you want to max hero in shortest time possible, it would require from you to hold the HA over 2700 times consecutively >.< just impossible
Plus the game needs imo more ways, also for PvE's to get fame Points, Hero title should become a Hybrid Title that you can earn you either via playing PvE and holding the HA, or by other ways in PvE (playing through the campaigns, making all quests ect. pp.)
This way would have players more ways to gain fame points, then just playing ever and ever and ever.... again only HA, which gets quick boring.

Imo, there shold be also a for Balthazar Points tradeable consumeable Item, somethign liek the Flame of Balthazar, which when you use it gives you a certain amount of Fame Points.
This item should have then also a chance to drop out of the Zaishen-Chest. this way the game would become an addtional way how to use your countless Balthazar Points, once you've unlocked everything and you would be able to speed up a bit through this your hero title without having to grind in the HA for
This item could then also rarely drop from monsters (bosses), say would be a gold or green drop item the "Medal of Honor" how i would call this fame consumeable then.

NO, please stop talking

When those people where r0 so was everyone else; is not the case now.

WTS the ability to think coherently.

when i war r0 peeps have big emotes, now i have big emotes (this was a while back but as i recalled people were crying about this same idea back then). wts the ability to not be bad at game.
Stop trying to make this game easier. its for ages 12+ cause its supposed to provide a challenge to pre-teens.
if HA is too hard, or your too impatient to get your fuzzy little bambi which your going to spam for about 2hrs straight in Ascalon City, go drop 250k for the zaishen emote.
tiering HA, as has been stated above and in the other two thousand threads of this sort, will not improve your play skill at all.
people get new emotes on a daily baisis, so clearly they have the ability to play the game.
sardelac sanitarium: stop trying to dumb down the game >.<

WTS Thought Beyond Selfish Interest

It's really not that hard. You can get bambi from r0 in a month, easily. This isn't a title made to be maxed - it's a title for PvPers.

I really dislike that people QQ over double champ weekends in the same regard. These titles are for serious PvPers who are willing to put in the hours to go up the ladder. It's not a weekend thing.

If you all put as much effort into getting a hero emote as you all do in maxing those foolish EotN titles, you'd all have your bambi/wolf/tiger.

Tiered HA would just produce shittier players, I can say this for certain.

Why do you write such statements I wonder. Is because it makes you feel good about yourself because your such a loser that you have to say things that make you seem leet in a video game world.

If I were you I would be very careful about even thinking the word dumb let alone writing, or saying it outloud, especially when referring to someone other than yourself.

The post was way over your head because you missed the point completely. Nothing you wrote even remotely relates to anything in the OP. Before you respond to posts maybe you should grow a cerebral cortex and go back to school and learn how to comprehend what you read.

Its not about getting emotes (I already have a bambi and I guarantee you I havent spammed it nearly us much as you spammed yours) its not about the game being hard. If an idiot like you can play it obviously doesnt take much.

To put it in its simplest terms it is about getting more people into HA because its dead.

People could learn by going up against others of the same exp level. R0 are not going to run a balanced, sway, spike, or whatever kind of group as well as a R9 group and they arent going to last long enough to really learn anything against such an experienced group. If the want to watch higher ranked groups thats what observer mode is for. People will learn more by playing anyway. I would like to actually hear a valid reason that people couldnt learn from playing others of the same level because it makes no sense. Saying R9s learn nothing from rolling unranked groups that dont know how to play seems more valid.

It its been stated so many times maybe its a good idea that devs at Anet should look into. Listening to the hardcore PvP crowd has put HA where it is now, dead.

If you are going to respond to this please say something at least semi-intelligent. An truly intelligent statement would clearly be asking too much.

What a lot of people do not understand is that true HA'ers do not play for rank or fame, they play to WIN and to have FUN and that is what so many do not understand. PvE'rs see the shiny emotes, think to themselves "me want" and go try HA, get their asses handed to them, and come to Sardelac to complain. True HA'ers do not care about rank, they care about how good you are. If you are bad, they do not want you. Rank is often an indicator of someones skill (not always), but it is the best you can do without actually playing with someone, and since time is money, rank discrimination exists.

HA is about fun and winning, and it is not fun explaining things over and over, and it is not fun losing.

^wut he said

its no fun if you lose and since you don't win with unraked pugs theres no fun in playing with em

join a ha guild that is willing to teach you. Problem solved?

Which means they need to implement a better (or any) guild finding system? That would be nice, too.

For keeping R0 people from winning against R0 people when both have really lousy builds and strategy... how about we just make the Zaishen at the start of HA better? Semi-random skills based on popular builds, better AI, something that requires people to have half an idea before they start, an automatic filter that should be bypassed easily by having a good team.

And then, separately, a HA training arena, vs. AIs of varying builds (same as the updated Zaishen) for up to 25 fame total, and have it constantly giving you hints:
That warrior will have trouble damaging you if you run away.
That character has a reusable resurrection skill, you might get them first.
Several physical attackers are near this ally: does he/she need some help?
Your character has no business being that close to the enemies' group. Stay behind the rest of the team to avoid being a major target.

(Obviously, need more hints from more experienced people.)

But, a well-designed NPC training ground to prepare people for HA and a similar NPC group at the start of HA to filter out people with no clue could help a tiered system for HA work, and may be helpful on their own.

wow that was an exceedingly hostile and uncalled for post there ...
and i ask you the same question back. my apologies if my post appeared to be directed at you. "you" can be both second person singular and second person plural. my intent was for that to be second person plural: speaking to a generalized audience.

I simply disagree with your notion of this being a "good idea" as it defeats the purpose of HA; to be a competitive matching system where the strongest teams with the strongest skills and tactics reap in the rewards. just because it is a recurring thread, doesnt mean its a beneficial idea.

personally, i think tiering HA would not defeat rank discrimination. for example, in the r3-r5 tier, rank discrimination will still occur. groups will form of just r5s and guess what. the r5's have a greater chance of dominating, since they have more HA experience. theoretically. players "graduating" from their tier will find themselves plunged into a tier they are not ready for since their last few weeks in the earlier tier, all they did was farm the less experienced players for fame. And imagine the wait time between matches with five separate tiers in HA, especially for higher ranked groups...

if anet does for some reason incorporate this, i predict there will be a large amount of GW's purchased, primarily second accounts with which experienced players will be trashing inexperienced ones. why? cause its fun. it will only cause more complaints and grief.

learn from defeat. that is how you become a better player, whether its in soccer, swimming or HA.

perhaps this post is a bit more civil and you can understand my position here.

Agreed. Of course it's a lovely idea, but there are barely enough players to make our current HA usable, let alone splitting it up into more.

Better question, perhaps: would more people come if it were this way? Nothing wrong with ANet making this happen for a weekend and looking at the results.

all of you just want to have new HA team so you get fame faster. if its split to tiered you have to fight HA team of your same standard and you are afraid this will mean even longer time to get fame.

ps: not all high ranking ha people really knows how to HA, I for one know people who take other players along for fame if they pay them per fame, but I have no proof, I over heard/saw it.

Official endorsement of player discrimination and segregation as this OP is suggesting, is a horrible idea. Unsigned.

However, there should be a random HA. You press enter battle, and are randomly paired up with 7 other players, to fight other random HA teams for all the same benefits that normal HA gives. That is a good idea.

No it's not, your saying you want RA style shit in HA? LMAO, baed really baed idea, mass /ragequit followed by super QQing about dishonorable hex. Need to find a group easier? Use the Party Search key. Need to find a HA guild easier? Use one of the MANY GW Fan sites that have a recruiting section, like this one right here on this very site:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/f...play.php?f=265


@ Sir Tificate - 2 words "Zashine Elite" that IS the PvP NPC training ground. No it's not perfect, but it's there for a reason.

Use the search button to Locate the other times this idea has been suggested and see how many people flame the living shit out of the idea and how many agree with it. Just because lazy QQers continue to suggest something it doesn't make it good. Example: Just because you are stupid doesn't mean the rest of us should be. See?


Don't worry Rice, if 5 tiers were implemented Deceptive would be right back here QQing that HA is still hard and that every rank should be a tier, so if you are r3 then you can only team with r3's and only fight r3's. Then, maybe just maybe, he could get to r4. IN which case he would then come back here and QQ that people who are over half way to their next rank should be tiered sepreratly from those who just received their new rank because the ones with more fame are better and kick the shit out of him. So then we would have 30 tiers of HA.

I give you the example of the Arena "Hero Battles" Everyone starts out at a bad level, and you can win with pretty much any random build and a tad bit of common sense, because you are facing other people new to the arena who are also new to the arena and running any random build. Now once you have defeated a handful of nobodies you gain rank/rating and begin to face tougher opponents to whom you loose because you didn't learn much facing other poo's such as yourself. Now what do you do? You tank your rank so you can face crap people again and get your Commander 1 or 2 or 3 title. It happens ALL THE TIME in HB. The didn't learn enough facing noob's to beat veterans so they go back to facing noobs where they know they can win, but they still will not learn enough to beat people on the ladder.

Obviously you can't tank your Fame amount, so once you move up a tier and you fail hard, whats there to do at this point? Either QQ more or quit, thats your options because you learned nothing facing other rank0's.

Also, there is no reason to insult Rice or anyone for that matter just because your idea is bad and they disagree with you.

Ummm, no it is not.

8 Man RA should NOT give the same benefits as a co-ordinated team. You want your bambi the random way? Join a randomway. They get fame every now and then. Or better yet, roll a R/D. You will learn just as much as in a randomway (which is to say ZILCH), but you get 5x as much fame.

So if you're anything above r6, it takes 20+ minutes to get a match! Sweet!

I like the idea but what if u get in a mixed group with ranked / unranked ?

actually, this type of thinking is exactly what killed HA. what killed HA you asked? if someone did not pvp from the start, earn their r0 when everyone else did, they were not let in on a group if they didnt have a certain rank. this is probably one of the reasons anet implemented the "ping bar" update, to prove they had the 8 skills required for the build. HA got killed by higher rank people not allowing "nonranked" or "lower ranked" individuals, hence restricted the addition of a whole new player base.

YOU are to thank for HA being dead. This would be a perfect addition: those who, with lower ranks, will finally be able to learn some pvp, and may be the leader of the next iQ guild. i would really like it if they implemented this. maybe us "lesser folk" will be able to get into high-end pvp. let the flames begin...i know how much you guys hate someone have an opinion that differs from yours.

If they were truly that good, they'd find a way to get into good HA groups while being unranked. Just face it, most people suck and just want rank to be easy like PvE. I started HA when everyone was asking for r9+ and I was unranked. I still got into groups. Anyone who thinks you need tiered HA to get into higher level PvP is just bad and wants it easy.

The problem with HA now is the elitist attitude so many players have regarding low rank or unranked players. The high ranks just laugh and stick their noses up at those unranked or low rank players. Which is really not that fair at all, at the moment if your unranked and trying to gain rank in HA its near impossible to find a decent group.

You can sit there for a good hour or more spamming in local chat "LFG!" and get no where. If your unranked you really only have two options, try to form a serious group of unranked players, which is tough due to so many /rage quits, or go randomway which hardly ever works.

Personally i'd just leave HA like it is at the moment and leave the ranked players to continue being snobs. If you want to do some fun or serious PvP then GvG and even to some extent AB is probably a better option.

You know how I HA?

Not by spamming "LFG" I use my Alliance, muy guild and my Freinds list.

Al those people are > PUG

See there is already a way to make HA easier youjust have to use those ways instead of beign lazy.

Also I started GW 11 months after it was released, just had my 2 year Bdays last month. So yeah, I got groups in HA and got rank you can to.

this is true. i started guild wars only a few months ago, and
i'm already building up my hero and champion titles.
find a good active guild around your level and play with them.

From what people say, then, the major problem with entering Hero's Ascent is that it seems like it is very difficult and it seems like you are getting nowhere by doing what seems to be the correct thing to do, IE going to Hero's Ascent and trying to get a party.

Situation:
Someone comes to Hero's Ascent for the first time, having done all the RA/TA stuff that the game makes you do first. They figure they are not too bad of a player; after all, they were able to beat all of the PvE campaigns with no problem, and they had no real trouble in RA or TA, maybe they even play AB a bit on the side.

Then they join a group in the same way they've always chosen to join groups, because it has always been successful before; why shouldn't it be now?
Then they get steamrolled by the first team they fight. Several people ragequit, then they decide to maybe make another attempt, this time taking more time in forming a group. They spend twenty or so minutes again, getting an unranked or low rank group together, coordinating builds, and then they finally go in.

Then they get steamrolled by the first team they fight, this time perhaps a higher rank team or a guild team. More ragequitting, maybe another group. They try again, taking a longer time, getting a more defined group together, it takes about an hour. They lose again, but not quite so badly.

Then they consider what they have been doing for the past while. They have spent an hour and a half or up to two hours playing Hero's Ascent. During this time, they were able to play 3 matches, all of which they lost, for a total of maybe 80 faction and no fame. After this, they seriously reconsider playing Hero's Ascent.

Important part
The problem? Nothing else in the game prepares anyone for HA or GvG in the ways that they should. This is partially because missions are easy; you don't need to spend long adding Heroes and Henchmen or even just forming a pug quick and you can quite probably beat a mission with no trouble, or at least get noticeably further on each try. You never have to call on guild mates for a mission. You rarely have to communicate with your teammates to win. You hardly even need to take good builds. The overpowered PvE skills mean that you don't even need to be very practiced.
/Important part

I know that the original intent of PvE was to prepare people for PvP, and though that was changed, PvE shouldn't make people LESS prepared for PvP than they are when they first get the game. By the time people play PvE or the lesser PvP modes for awhile, they have the feeling that they know what they are doing, and are less likely to learn how to do something different, since they already learned how to play the game. Why should one part of the game be so different from the rest?
Then, when they try and play it as they have learned to play, they lose, get discouraged, get annoyed with the insults, and get tired of not being accepted into better groups due to rank. Thus, before they even think about trying to get a Hero's Ascent group from their guild or alliance, they have given up on ever bothering with high-end PvP.

Stop being a moron, please. Shitty players playing against shitty players = shitty players.