PvE Balance Update Suggestions

Splinter+ignite+barrage= spam 1 on keyboard.

Yup , i had that happen , pretty unpleasant
Also i would like mosters to have more powerfull skills that are not moster skills. This would be a nice step.
And for the record I love them! No matter how many times they kill me , after seeing them tear apart my brothers party I love them Wish I had one as a minipet , but I don't have the money

Way to make a mob scatter.
And even without ignite , it's still splinter+barrage=spam 1 on keyboard

Oh yea btw, if you wanna fix Rits, change the functionality of Spawning power.

If your going to affect spirits with Spawning at least give it a little armor bonus also, and/or include item spell duration into it. there really is no reason to runRt unless you NEED the runes or using some sort of spirits strength thingymabober.

Their skills are still good, but, make it so their primary is worth using, like Necros Soul reaping or rangers expertise. BUt don't make it necessary to have for 90% of the builds like paragons leadership for energy management. Almost every build for paragons I see use leadership and imo it hinders some pretty cool build concepts. They are still awsome though anyways so....that last point is just a personal feeling.

^
All professions, except for Rits utilise their primary attribute.

I admit I like to run spirits strength Rt/A in RA just because its fun but, the only things rts have going for them right now is their awesome fashion sense. And even then, the males could use some pants.

Try [[ancestor's rage] and [[splinter weapon] at 14-> 16 spec.

I do, with my Mesmer and SoI lol. its not THAT much damage to sacrifice something like soul reaping energy management. Ele's could prolly run rt roles well themselves if they had to. Maybe make it so the 14-16 range make a larger difference, so that rt's would actually do a LOT more damage with helm+minor to sup runes. You know what I mean? Make those last 3 levels larger intervals for damage/effect increases

Thanks for the effort put into this.

I'm not going to comment on the specifics, I'm sure Anet would think long and hard about all those buff's before implementing them. They allways do. I see a few skill's being overbuffed and a few that still won't be used, but that's only understandable.

I can only reply : "Shaking things up a bit might be fun".

They already do. You'd be amazed at how much 14 (At 14 spec versus 10 spec) more damage equates to. Eles can run it. Any profession can run it, but when it's a Rt/x running it, it makes all the difference.

And SoI takes up your elite slot.

How bout reverting Fox's Promise, Black Lotus Strike and Sharpen Daggers.

Most people though (Including myself) Don't think that the - health major runes give and the lack of some inherent energy management like endless Soul reaping or a larger pool with Energy storage is worth the extra damage it gives. (+ 28 dmg in ancestors rage case with sup rune + head gear - 75 health) If it was say, +28 damage for just a minor rune and no headgear, then it would really be worth it imo, but for now, its not.

As a whole I like the list and a lot of the suggested changes, however, I think you made a few oversights. The most apparent to me was the lack of love to Ritualists, who have suffered the most imo from PvP nerfs. Ritual Lord for Union/Shelter used to be a playable and very useful build, often replacing a prot monk in the elite missions. The fact that they die after so few hits (and after using their effect only a few times) makes them almost worthless. Rather than changing the recharge, Ritualists would be a much more balanced class if spirit HP reverted, returning the Rit to a more strategic support class, rather than just spamming spirits.

Mesmers also are not underpowered in PvE, with the right build Mesmers can do both a terrifying amount of damage, as well as shut down otherwise hard to defeat bosses. Even using a simple echo chain with Cry of Pain and Ether Nightmare quickly annihilates mobs, and bringing a few interrupts and aids such as Frustration allows players to even shut-down HM bosses with their increased casting speed. I support a couple of your suggested changes such as IW becoming a weapon spell, but from playing a mesmer regularly nothing else is really needed . Mesmers are probably never going to get decent PUGs, but that's why you have a guild and a friend's list.

I would like to see spirits get more survivability in pve. Mobs only need to breath near them to kill them. Maybe make spirits max level 15-ish? Or at least more armor scaled to spawning power? It will make rits more interesting mms if their minions had more armor.
EDIT: I would make the recharge of guilt , shame and mistrust a little lower. Really like them 3 spells , but the recharge is awful.

you seem to be criticizing anet's decision to change pve from a challenge to "a playground" where players use overpowered skills/builds and inefficient/non-optimal player tactics can be used to great effect. you also seem to disagree with anet's apathy toward the pve power creep. however, the vast majority of the skill changes you suggested are buffs. i dont see how increasing the power level of seemingly random skills would fix the power creep and revert pve to a more challenging state.

edit:
minion bombers are generally more effective than minion masters, and minions with higher armor would be less likely to die and trigger death nova/jagged bones or fuel the group's necros with soul reaping.

Mesmers FTW. The overlooked powerful class.
One guildie said they don't play Mesmers because the skill's are purple and weak. I just laughed

i think that was intended

A couple of my guildies said that , they changed their opinions after I mopped the floor with them , and showed and explained some PvE builds. But I still think they need a buff , at least revert [Mantra of Recovery] back.

No matter what buffs happen:
1) No group in their right mind would ever request energy denial for a PuG.
2) Energy denial is not and will never be effective in PvE (outside of mob exploits like Sympathetic Visage+Famine).
3) Simply killing a monster and interrupting skills is faster and more fun than energy denial ever could possibly be.

I don't know why I have to even say that. :S

If [Aneurysm] got a buff to damage per point of energy , I would consider E-denial , otherwise as Skye Marin said , e-denial is right now pointless except farming builds.

Would [skill]Prepared Shot[/skill] and [skill]Toxic Chill[/skill] have any changes?

I could also throw in some of my own changes, but I'm better at creating new ones rather than changing specifically.

Seriously ?

Your not even constructive & you insult Mister Noran


Its time to get ridden over by the banmoble for you ;

but no , pls phoenix every you post , I die a little inside

You know you just critised Anet use / making of skills and not Noran ?

He adjusted them and you didn't comment the adjusts but the original point & meaning of the skills =)

I do agree with Endure Pain and Life Sheath

Seems a waste to me. You'd spec Channeling/Mark/Expetise and WS for very little or no extra damage plus mob scatter ?

A Marks or Exp prep would seem more obvious if you were running splinter with a non stripable barrage.

Accumulated Pain
I honestly can't find a good use for this. It's kinda complicated for a normal spike and the end effect is not worth it for the requirements it has. That is why I think the ability should be changed to this:

Spell. Target foe takes 14...70 damage. If target foe is suffering from 1 or more mesmer hexes, that foe and all nearby foes suffer a Deep Wound for 5...14 seconds.

Giving it such an ability would also promote primary mesmers, as it requires a mesmer hex and causes a deep wound to all nearby foes in end result. This helps mesmers gain more acceptance into PuGs because they can put pressure while dealing good damage at the same time. However it would not be TOO cheap.
The deep wound would have to be reduced to 14 maximum seconds since its aoe though.

Also I think channeling should have increased range. You don't really get any energy that is actually worth it unless you are in the middle of a mob, which you SHOULDN'T be, as you are a caster. So I think it should be longbow range.

Lol, yeah that skill isn't an Elite. Oops, fixed.

I'm perfectly aware of the fact that this balance will increase the power of the game's enemies just as much as it increases the power of the players. This is partially why it's very difficult for me to believe that with these skill buffs, PvE will change in its overall difficulty very much at all.

Accumulated Pain is an amazing skill already; it's essentially Deep Wound for free, instantly, at range, from a character that doesn't usually apply it. One copy of Accumulated Pain can be the difference maker (in effeciency terms) for any hex build. I was just hoping to buff it enough so that others might notice as well.

These comments struck me as particularly wrong for a very specific reason that I was hoping for the opportunity to explain.

It seems that many people opposed to my suggestions are nit-picking specific skills and failing to look at the broader picture. Visions of Regret would be far from useless. Yes, Backfire would be an energy eater, but at it's current recharge it's completely useless in PvE. If a player were to want the affect of Backfire, they might strive to work in energy management to allow themselves the flexibility to cast it regularly. With my versions of Guilt and Shame, players could gain quite a lot of energy with each cast, but only if they have the player-skill to cast it in a timely and appropriate location. Even without these buffs, a simple Glyph of Lesser Energy (with or without my change) is more than enough to power Backfire at my suggested recharge. I would urge for anyone trying to really understand my post to consider the affect on the game if all or most of these changes were made, not any skill change individually... those who pointed out that my changes to Aneurysm combined with the energy denial buffs might make such a build attractive if implemented together are the ones looking at this the way I put it together to be looked at.

That said, I would also like to point out that many people seem to be misinterpreting my suggestion for Illusionary Weaponry. Nothing would change about the skill except for it's skill type; that is, it's still only castable on yourself, and it still only does anything in melee.

Finally, those of you who think that my change to Feast of Corruption would be a nerf are simply ignorant of how skill variables even work. Feast of Corruption's recharge at it's current state makes the skill unplayable when compared with other super-powered PvE DPS machines like Spiteful Spirit, and that's just common sense; there are other better skills available too, particularly for a skill so obviously designed as an AoE attack spell. Simply lowering the recharge to 10 seconds without any other change makes this skill far too powerful, so I also would suggest increasing the skill's energy cost to 25. Necros have no problem with energy as it is, and I'm sure if Feast were to be buffed this way, a creative player would find plenty of ways to keep his energy rolling (Soul Reaping, glyphs, Signet of Lost Souls, Mesmer based energy returns, etc.).

About Feast of Corruption - Me/N with Suffering, Arcane Echo, then pew FoC, auspicious incantation, PEW second time. Pewpew on recharge.

edit: Yeah, energy intensive, that's why I would also use Signet of Corruption after first FoC and of course a +15/+15 wand/offhand combo.

I don't think long skill balance lists are very helpful. It's hard enough making a few minor changes nowadays.

Glanced through it and decent list. Mesmer skills need to be AoE. The current trend with increasing power of skills is to tank and blow shit up, and mesmers simply can't do that. Back in prophecies, one could argue that a strong shutdown mesmer is just as good as big damage, but this isn't the case anymore. Things like backfire, empathy, etc. need to be AoE. Things like guilt need more useful skill effects, perhaps dealing initial AoE damage+energy drain upon cast. Things like plock needs to lock a skill for all enemies in the area. That's the only way for mesmers to see play in this day and age. Obviously you'll have to consider balance for monsters, but that's simpler to deal with.

Sha Noran , could you explain me what benefits will vision of regret see if only it's duration and recharge are changed , it's still a useless elite to counter warriors and to some extent paragons , but with the monsters having halved bars with barely any adrenal skills it's worth even less.

@holymasamune: AoE to empathy is just overpowered , a small aoe to backfire with lowered damage is okay, but guilt and shame don't need AoE, imo they are ok , while they do not provide energy denial , they are great energy management (even without aoe) skills if used properly and guilt is very nice on bosses. Power lock and power block could have an aoe disable effect.

The spell stealing skills should not have the spell stolen at attribute level 0 , it should be scaled according to domination/inspiration level with a max spell level at 12 at 15 dom/insp.

My request/suggestion, change titles skills and actually put them with a class and an attribute. The lightbringer skills are the only ones that should be tied to a title.

Its a pretty solid list in a lot of respects, although Anet will probably "tl;dr" this one, if they look at it at all.

Except that you don't have any changes to Aneurysm in your OP, and it's never mentioned on the first page. All the energy denial skill buffs are basically useless without the buff the Aneurysm, and I don't see where you suggested one.


Then what's the point? Why not let Anet spend resources on something that matters?

Having a 25e/10r FoC is just about as much of a waste of an elite slot as a 15e/20r FoC, and there is no core reason for the buff.

Few, if any, PvE necros would switch to your FoC over any other Necro elite, especially compared to Spiteful Spirit. Some using FoC exclusively previously would even look at it as a nerf. As a quick comparison, You can do more damage in 10 seconds as a N/Me with Clumsiness/Wandering Eye at r12 than you can with your FoC, and you save an elite slot. That's far from "too powerful".

What I'm saying is that, there is no tangible benefit to many of your proposed changes, and changing skills for no good reason is a waste of resources.

I don't know about empathy and backfire something more in the illusion line.

Yes, somehow it escaped my final draft; bizarre since I talked about it at length with Fenix and others before posting this. I took a break between typing the Necro and Mesmer bits, so that's probably how I lost it. Oh well, it's there now.

Your failure to understand the benefit does not necessarily mean that there is no benefit; and let's not talk about wasting resources when we've seen the release of a tedius rewording of each skill for no real purpose.

My views have been made clear, and thus my future responses to this thread will be limited to allow maximum focus on the second part of my suggestions.

But I want to understand what you understand. Otherwise, I can't criticize, that is, otherwise you won't think my opinion is valid at all.

Your suggestion for Illusionary Weaponry

So, the skill is no longer an enchantment and is now a weapon spell. Tell me if I'm missing something here:

Benefits:
-can't be stripped
-has synergies with other skills that benefit from weapon spells
-lengthened in duration via Spawning Power
-has the word "weapon" in the name, so should be changed?

Downsides:
-can't be stacked with other weapon spells
-can no longer be lengthed with +20% enchant mod
-breaks the class exclusivity of weapon spells from Rits?
-takes Anet's resources to change the skill and bug test it

I can't really see how the benefits of changing this skill outweigh the downsides.

If nothing changes in terms of skill use, tactical potential, DPS, or whatever other advantage, then what's the point?
I don't understand this either:

1) You acknowledge that Anet is capable of wasting resources
2) You dislike when they do waste resources
3) Unless it has to do with your skill changes, then you just don't want to talk about it?

I agree with most of these changes, and people seem to forget that [[choking gas] interrupts adjacent foes anyway, so the interaction with barrage does not make any difference. Besides, a big skill update like this would really shake up the game and possibly remove the stagnation of builds. I think it would be a lot better, at least for a little while, as people find new builds, which would encourage creativity.

Well, i criticized him for taking useless skills and adding useless buffs