When to draw the line on being "helpful"

Damian979

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2008

I was reading another thread on the "niceness" of people and it made me want to start this thread about the difference of people needing help and people wanting someone to play the game for them. I didn't see another thread about this topic, and if there is, I'm sorry for ganking your topic.

I have had this issue pretty much the entire time I've played GW and even had to leave a guild where I was officer because I couldn't stand being treated like a "sugar daddy" anymore.

I am a helpful person. When I'm bored and don't know what to do, I love standing around in low lvl mish's and offering free help. I take my ToPK greenies and hand them out to new players which I find far more enjoyable than spending an hour trying to get 1 or 2k for them. I will always pm someone asking questions or potentially setting themselves up to be scammed and try to lead them in the right direction.

This unfortunately for some people makes them think that they don't have to work to earn anything in this game anymore. Even in my current alliance, there are certain players that are constantly "can someone give me xx","can someone help me do this mish?", then "can someone help me get to the next mish?", and do the next one and so on. Last night alone was a 2 hour onslaught from the same few people spamming over and over I need a weapon, I need money, I need a run, I need, I need. Then they cop an attitude when they don't get what they want right away. This just discourages me from wanting to help anyone.

I personally will always try to get through something on my own first, and if I die a dozen times, then I will ask for help. I have never asked anyone for money, and the only things that have ever been given to me were offered and not asked for.

I just wanted to get some other peoples perspectives on this whether this has ever been an issue for them, and if so, how have you handled it?

scythefromunder

scythefromunder

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2008

CA

Tears Of The Ascended [ToA]

If they are just using you,
they arent your friends and just tell them to do whatever it is themselves.
If they give you attitudes,
then dont talk to them seeing they just talk to you because they only need something off you.


And you can always do the "Im sorry im very busy for the next 5 hours or so" trick.

oliverrr1989

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2008

Lore of Mythos [Myth]

D/

Yeah how dare they ask their guild and alliance if they can help them with a mission or if they have equipment to spare!!! What an outrage eh?

Proff

Proff

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2007

There's helping and there's beating factions again for absolutely no reason....

Panais

Panais

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2008

Binge And Purge [HET]

D/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by oliverrr1989
Yeah how dare they ask their guild and alliance if they can help them with a mission or if they have equipment to spare!!! What an outrage eh?
^^typical guru @$$hole.
he means ppl that end up spaming help msgs.

if they are using you, just kick them, ask for some1 to kick them, as it seems they arent offering anything to your alliance, they are just there to leech.

Damian979

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by oliverrr1989
Yeah how dare they ask their guild and alliance if they can help them with a mission or if they have equipment to spare!!! What an outrage eh?
lol, I'm not talking helping with a mission, or giving a weapon or two

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proff
There's helping and there's beating factions again for absolutely no reason...
That's what I'm talking about

JupiterStarWarrior

JupiterStarWarrior

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2008

Oklahoma City

Noble Order Of Valiant Angels

Me/

It comes down to how you perceive what the person is doing. If you feel that someone is not wanting to actually try to play the game on their own and not get any experience (for whatever reason), then I say don't help them.

But, if, in your opinion, the person is in dire need of help, I see nothing wrong with helping them. I myself have helped on occasion, especially on some of my favorite missions.

However, I've seen a lot of people spam for a low amount of money where it could easily be farmed and/or as quest awards (which is kind of annoying, really). It just comes down to perspective, really.

nekopowa

nekopowa

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2006

Croatia

A/P

That is true and has happened to me a lot as well, there are lots of beggars who constantly cry for help and won't even try to do anything themselves. Most of them are still kids who are used to having someone spoil them. It's not that hard to recognize them - bad spelling, no manners, just "want want want", and especially naggy. I just ignore them and don't get grouped with them.

BBQRibs

BBQRibs

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2005

N/Me

Begging is everywhere. That entitlement attitude is everywhere. It's just the way some people are raised. You can't escape it. The good thing is, most of them will grow out of it one day.

Alexandra-Sweet

Alexandra-Sweet

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2006

That one place with the trees, mountains and snow

Ember Power Mercenaries [EMP]

Me/

NEVER give something to a new player, all new players should be treated equally and should learn on their own, all the high end players just need to kick their butts in the right direction.

Whenever I help a new player in a lvl 10> mission I go as Monk and keep them alive, they figure out how to kill enemy and learn from it, and not have some lvl 20 Ele do all the work for them.

You should only help players learn the game, not give them free items (greens), gold and runs.

Etta

Etta

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Mancland, British Empire

You can just say no, or ignore them and they'll go away.

It's A Me

It's A Me

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2008

N/

i stop when they ask/want too much or when they start acting like twats.

Widowmaker

Widowmaker

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2008

N/

Oddly I have the opposite problem, I have offered my help to friends on many occasions but they don't want to feel a burden by accepting it and "making" me help them out with low level missions.

Either that or I'm just really bad and no one wants to tell me.

MithranArkanere

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

I help when I want to.
No one forces me to help.

As easy as pie.

Nessar

Nessar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2008

West Siiiiiiiiiiiiiide

Gwen Has A Thing For [Pyre]

I'm very helpful also, I've also been bugged by people who think I can help 24/7. Those type of people I just ignore, even if they are in my guild. The ones that beg and beg and beg just need to be ignored. They'll go away eventually ^^.

jiggles

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

N/

yup its been an issue, usually if said person asked more than once in GC for a hand then he got kicked by me. Simply because i cannot stand effing beggars, if people ignored you /said they were busy the first time, asking again 30 seconds later isnt going to help much. The one time i did help someone he wanted to me to run him everywhere in the desert, do all the missions for him, then do glints and then when we were at droks buy him armour. Needless to say i wasnt impressed, so i ran him to the missions then i used the old, oh sugar me mum needs me for the next 2 years trick. He didnt ask me again.

Now im perfectly happy guildless and if i ever do join a guild it will be full of non idiots.(AKA noobs)

Valeria

Valeria

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Germany

PaRe

W/

When i do stuff like running one of my chars to droknars forge i don't mind to take others along for free and even give them a extra tour.
I don't like doing anything like helping with a mission (which i have done a dozen times already with my chars) if i don't need the mission myself.
Giving away some purple weapons or mats to others wont hurt me but i would never give something worth 5k or above away for free.

Only annoying thing is that people i have helped often add me to their friends list and keep asking me for free weapons or running missions (which i don't want to do). They are never too demanding or something like that but i usually help others only once and only when i feel that doing so is fun for me as well.

BabyJ

BabyJ

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

Illinois

SFG

Mo/

The problem I have is when i help a person with a mission or quest, they add me to their friends list and just constantly pm me for help. For instance a while back I helped a guy (I'll call him billy) with Blacktide den mission. He pm's me a few days later, like I remember who he is anyway, and goes on to ask for more help. And me, don't mind helping when I'm not really doing anything, well the conversation is like this:

Billy: Hey can you help me a minute.
Me: I guess i can, I'm not really doing anything atm
Billy: I need help getting to the bone palace for ancient armor for my derv
Me: Ok, well where are you at
Billy: Yohlon Haven
Me: No, I mean how close are you to the bone palace
Billy: I just got to yohlon haven and now i need to get to the bone palace.
Me: You know thats about halfway through the game
Billy: You can just do the missions so I can get there
Me: Your gonna have to get closer to the bone palace
Billy: You can't just do missions for me?

I mean really! Come on! And this isn't the first person to ask such things like this. So I just don't help people anymore cause when I do I end up on their friends list so they can pm me daily to ask for things. And I don't mind helping people that are having problems getting through a mission cause I remember the problems I might have had getting through those missions. So thanks to all the people that constantly pm me, I just don't help people anymore.

The Meth

The Meth

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

R/

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Main_Page
Give them this then promptly ignore them until they shut up.

OK, so I'm not quite that bad, generally I am more then happy to provide information on what works best in an area, build tips, counters and such, but I draw the line at actually helping people through the level. Give them the tools to beat an area and they are far better off then you doing it yourself. Now if they are one of the noobs who just wants to be taken through the game so they can farm UW or something, screw them.

Exceptions are generally made for places that are actually fairly tough. HM vanquishing/missions? Sure, I can find a character who needs it. UW? Happy to tag along.

kostolomac

kostolomac

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2008

Serbia

Me/

There is a difference between asking for help and wanting everything on a silver platter.
A member of my guild wanter help for the last 5 or 6 proph missions , he asked us to help him every time he logged in. I didn't want to help , why? I helped him do the previous mission , he insulted everyone even though he dragged us all , and then had the courage to ask for more help.
I like to give info , but when someone wants me to give him a complete walkthrough of the game I just ignore him , Wiki is there for a reason.

Also I was in a situation where I gave a guy mats for a whole gladiator armor , he said thanks , and tomorrow he wanted money for the armor

I ended up putting the wiki site on the status bar for the guild AND had to show people how to use , since it's too hard for them

The Red Messenger

The Red Messenger

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2008

America

i used to help out a lot more than i do now. heck, i used to go back to an earlier mission as lvl 20 and just look for randoms to help out.

nowadays i pretty much only help someone in my guild or alliance, and typically only on things that require it. it gets tiring when you help out someone else, and they pm you multiple times after that asking for more.

i guess it goes back to the old "teach a man to fish" saying...but it can take days-weeks to beat the noob out of someone and theres too many needy people out there. so choose wisely who you help.

Pillie

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2006

Ascending Phoenix

Mo/Me

I don't help people outside my guild, mainly for the reasons stated above. Every time I've helped someone on a whim, they come back a day later and want me to help again, then get angry when im busy or dont want to.

My guild has a very good recruitment policy, so the kinds of people we get there are usually the people who, if you help them when they need it, will be happy to help you whenever and wherever they can in the future, purely out of friendship. That kind of attitude in a community goes a long way towards making me more helpful

Miss Puddles

Miss Puddles

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

California

Shiverpeaks Search And Rescue [Lost]

Me/

i find that giving build suggestions and strategy tips over alliance chat is usually more helpful than doing the work for them.
as for freebies, i never give away money, and if i happen to have a cheap but decent item sitting on my storage character i will give it away if someone needs it. but begging gets an outright ignore.

Rocky Raccoon

Rocky Raccoon

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

Massachusetts, USA

Guardians of the Cosmos

R/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by oliverrr1989
Yeah how dare they ask their guild and alliance if they can help them with a mission or if they have equipment to spare!!! What an outrage eh?

If you had that attitude in my guild you would be out on your butt instantly.

Trvth Jvstice

Trvth Jvstice

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

HALE

W/

I'm often annoyed at people in my Guild or Alliance constantly asking for help. In the 33 months I've been playing I haven't asked for help once. I will usually help if it's a coordinated guild effort, or a planned effort, or if it's something I can do quickly like help someone to EotN or NF through LA. I don't mind giving money in amounts of 5k or less and I'll give away a whole stack of common materials. As an officer in my guild, I'm expected to help new guildies, so a gift of 5k or materials or a quick run will usually be enough for me to keep my "helpful" status.

If I do help someone though and am afterward bombarded with requests for help/items/gold, I just keep putting them off, or ignoring them and they usually go away. I've found that that sort of person either corrects their behavior, or they don't remain in a guild for very long.

BL1ZZARD

BL1ZZARD

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2008

UK

[CBA]

Mo/W

I once helped someone get through a few missions after he got where he wanted he simply left without a bye or word of thanks, now i dont help people apart from close friends on the game.

Traveller

Traveller

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Finland

League of Extraordinary Explorers [LOST] (my one man guild)

Me/

Well, there's a difference between asking for help and constantly bugging everyone with "can you do this for me" and "can you do that for me". If you help others, there's a good chance you will get help when you need it. (At least if your guild/alliance isn't a crappy one.)

I don't mind sharing stuff I don't need for someone who can find use for it and I know will appreciate it, but I guess everyone knows these people from their alliance/guild who just keep asking for more stuff and never seems to know the limit to others' kindness.

jiggles

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by oliverrr1989
Yeah how dare they ask their guild and alliance if they can help them with a mission or if they have equipment to spare!!! What an outrage eh?
yeah because everything should be free, and as a new player they shouldnt have to do shit, everyone else got it easy why cant they?

please, gtfo

romeus petrus

romeus petrus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

Urgoz Warren

Legion of Doom [LOD] Home of PWNZILLA http://PWNZILLA.guildlaunch.com

I agree don't trust any new recruits. We actually have a policy in our guild that any begging for freebies will result in a single warning followed by kicking from the guild if the trend continues. Hell I had a new recruit a few months ago who asked me if I could spare any tormented weapons, seconds after he joined -> instant kick.

Ferret Deathsquad

Ferret Deathsquad

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2008

Boston, Mass

W/Rt

I've helped low level players with some mission here and there BUT I stop after three mission. I NEVER give anything to people unless I am the one who is spamming free stuff. I will always try to help anyone in my guild or alliance if I can, because i've had people help me. As for ANYONE who ask for gold or platium I say "GO FARMING". If all else fails shut off or ignore all chats. HELP PEOPLE WHEN YOU WANT TOO!!! Some people want everything handed to them.

Lest121

Lest121

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2007

Army of Darkness

A/Mo

My guild is cruel, maybe that is why all new members QUIT in a few days, we don't walk you through low level mission, don't give out money, and at times will even ignore you if you complain or ask to many damn question, we tell all team Members Wiki is your best friend, if it's Underworld, HM, or some tough areas we will help, our newest member ask so many question I gave him the handle the Riddler.

Rhamia Darigaz

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandra-Sweet
NEVER give something to a new player, all new players should be treated equally and should learn on their own, all the high end players just need to kick their butts in the right direction.

Whenever I help a new player in a lvl 10> mission I go as Monk and keep them alive, they figure out how to kill enemy and learn from it, and not have some lvl 20 Ele do all the work for them.

You should only help players learn the game, not give them free items (greens), gold and runs.
actually if you want an example of a very effective damage dealer in low lvl areas a melee charater, especially one weilding a scythe, would be better. they get tons of crits because theyre low lvl, melees do more dmg than eles anyway, and they do big domage everytime they swing their weapons, not every 10 seconds when their skills recharge

lilraceangel3

lilraceangel3

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2008

Western Mass

Passionate Kiss of the cats [Kiss]

W/N

I belong to a large guild/alliance and there are constantly people asking for help. As an officer (and a genuinely nice person) I feel obligated to help out. There are a few that take advantage or want you to run the whole game for them, but I let them know up front: I am helping you with 1 mission and then I'll play my own game, no exceptions. If they whine about it (which they usually don't), then I leave and won't help them again.

Showtime

Showtime

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

WTB Q9+5e Bows/Q8 14^50 Weapons

R/P

Unless I am giving away freebies (high req junk that is too hard to sell, but some noobs can use), I don't give other players anything, but advice...
Don't waste resources on eye candy/things you don't need (yet).
Don't buy pets (yet).
Don't waste money on nice skins (yet).
Buy all maxed equipment even if it means buying blue collectors.
Merch instead of trying to sell that r13 purple item to other people.
Learn how to play the game.
Finish the game. So many people begging who didn't even finish the game.
Don't beg.
If you need help learning how to play, go to www.guildwarsguru.com and do some reading/research.
Type /wiki XXXX for info on XXXX

Btw it's so friggin easy compared to the early days of gw. You can buy maxed greens with perfect mods for under 3k each. You can go get maxed armor with a few hours of creating a new character (if you have enuff gold). You can get heros to help you through most all areas and dont have to wait on pugs or guild for 90% of the game in normal mode. You do much more once you master and properly equip your heros. Now everything is cheaper and takes way less time to get. Heck you can get uber fow armor, chaos gloves, chaos axe, and tormented shield for just over 1k platinum now. Just make an assassin and farm for 2-3 weeks and get enuff for all that.

AshenX

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2008

Orange County, CA.

Black Flag

R/

I believe that there is a big difference between someone who needs a hand and someone who doesnt want to do anythng for himself. The former will get my assistance the latter my scorn.

My alliance has an approach to helping out with gear that has worked out well for us. Those with gear they dont want or need donate to a semi-monthy giveaway managed by one of the alliance officers. We generally end up with 150-300 items which get posted in a thread in our alliance forms. People then post in that thread which item they would like on a first come first served basis. After a week people are alowed to post for a second pick. And so on.

This has allowed people who want to contribute items to do so in a fashion that reduces guild/alliance chat requests. It also creates an odd, and sometimes fun, swapmeet like experience for those looking for an unusual item. It allows a new player to see what kinds of items are even avaiable int he game in a more immediately accessible fashion than wiki. It allows someone who really does need an item to get a decent weapon without feeling like they are begging.

I doubt our approach is unique, and I am sure that it isnt for everyone, but it has been a very positive addition to our alliance.

Damian979

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2008

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that deals with beggar noobs, some nice ideas here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AshenX
My alliance has an approach to helping out with gear that has worked out well for us. Those with gear they dont want or need donate to a semi-monthy giveaway managed by one of the alliance officers. We generally end up with 150-300 items which get posted in a thread in our alliance forms. People then post in that thread which item they would like on a first come first served basis. After a week people are alowed to post for a second pick. And so on.
I think I'm going to suggest this one to my AL.


Umm....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz
actually if you want an example of a very effective damage dealer in low lvl areas a melee charater, especially one weilding a scythe, would be better. they get tons of crits because theyre low lvl, melees do more dmg than eles anyway, and they do big domage everytime they swing their weapons, not every 10 seconds when their skills recharge

....

Oh, you are looking for the campfire discussion, tis down the hall and to the left.

StormDragonZ

StormDragonZ

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2008

New York

W/R

Most of the guilds I've been in either expected to get things very easily, looked the other way on those who didn't farm something 10 hours a day or found anyone helpful because of one skill they happen to be using.

As for me being helpful, I only help those when it comes to needing a particular number of materials for armor or Normal Mode missions.

There is a difference between being helpful and giving to charity.

As it stands, I don't join guilds anymore. They're a waste of my time listening to complaining leechers tell me how much I'm annoying asking if anyone wants 100 Glittering Dust for free.

englitdaudelin

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

East Coast

Soldier's Union [SU]

N/Me

I definitely find that a) it's great to HELP on a mission--not to do it for them, but with them; and b) that's a favor that's rarely returned and often abused.

We seem to have an informal guild rule...don't ask too often, and if you miss a guild-wide chance to do a mission...don't ask for that mission for a little while. A few guildies had JUST done Gyala Hatchery, several times, over the span of a few days, getting it for various people. Lo and behold...I was a couple of days behind them in getting to Gyala. I'd never done the mission before...but I was outta luck. And I was OK with that. Several guildies gave me tips on the mission, and as I was in it, I asked a few questions in vent. Nice and easy, and no one was tooooo inconvenienced.

So, the line...hmmm...when they're obviously annoying or leeching. Or when it would bore you to tears to help any more....

Bryant Again

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
I help when I want to.
No one forces me to help.

As easy as pie.
Quoted for truth and to make my post longer, lawl.

If anything I give new players a gentle "nudge". If someone needs some gold for their storage in Shing Jea (as annoying as it can get) I help them out. If someone tells me they "need" 50k then they're on their own. Besides that, it's entirely situational when it comes to deciding if I help out a person or not.

Sometimes it's hard to tell honest people from the jerks. One time a guy begged in such a sad manner for me to help him on this mission "since i has like awsum heros". He ended up afking the whole thing, so I purposely wiped near the end of the mission.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Risky Ranger
If you had that attitude in my guild you would be out on your butt instantly.
Glad I know who to avoid, then ^ ^

Kook~NBK~

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2005

A little chalet outside Drok's

Natural Born Killaz

I draw several lines when it comes to helping people:

1. I never give to beggars, EVER. Those people IMHO, should either go out and play the game or uninstall and go do something else. (Want free money? See Ipillu Whupwup in Whitman's Folley!)

2. I won't help people with NM missions/quests before L.A. in Tyria or the noob islands, unless I'm on my Monk. With any other character, that's just making it TOO easy and the new players don't learn anything or have as much fun. (experienced players shouldn't need any help with them)

3. I won't give things away to any random person. The character may be a level 5, but how do I know that the player doesn't have a fully loaded account and doesn't need a hand-out?

4. I will, from time to time, give something away to someone who I've been questing with who I've had fun playing with. I dod this generally with people who've convinced me that they really are new to the game.

5. I'll answer people's questions, unless they're looking for a course in the subject. Then I refer them to guildwiki or the F10 button.