Civilized Discussion?

Haha.

Cheers.

The thing is though rank means smank in PVE. People can claim they have rank in whatever in PVE it is not important to play PVE. The line is only drawn between those that don't like overpowering skills and those that do. That is all rank in meaningless. It didn't matter before there was UB or SYS because people used another form of CHOOSING who they played with by what? Remember? CLASSES...thus the mesmers, rangers, assassins and most of the other support classes were lucky if they got into groups. NOW yes NOW EVERY CLASS can get into a group based on guess what? SKILLS yes SKILLS in UB and SYS and whatever else they like about the uber PVE ONLY SKILLS....BUT and this is a big BUT, YOU don't have to play that way. YOU have a CHOICE and don't sit there and say you don't. You can either JOIN them and play with UB or SYS or the others or YOU can FIND people LIKE YOURSELF within the game to PLAY/GROUP with and guess what? That's how it's ALWAYS BEEN you had to SEARCH for PEOPLE to GROUP with, but, NOW EVERYONE does that on an EQUAL LEVEL OF THEIR CHARACTER CLASS and are no long shunned because they play a certain CHARACTER CLASS. Thus it's working much better this way than the old way. I like it and I hope Anet sticks to this type of focus. I want to be able to go where everyone else goes no matter what CLASS I Play and I'm finally getting to do that by just investing a little TIME into getting UB and SYS, but, I hardly have it maxed and I get into a group much easier than I ever did before when It was just CLASSES that determined how quickly you'd get in a group.

Actually it does, thats my whole point.

It has direct relevance to the potency of PvE only skills and thus is a direct reflection of a players "power" outside of any skill.You simply can't deny that.

Example:A player with Rank 10 Norn using UB is vastly more powerful than a player with Rank 3 using the same skill, etc, etc.

A fact you agree with:

These players have not "earned" anything.They have merely c-spaced or repeated content a lot, e.g grinded.

They haven't done anything I haven't already done myself in game.They have just repeated that content over and over and over.

You call it earning, the community calls it grind.

Nope, the line is also drawn between those that don't like grinding to attain max potency of PvE only skills and those that do.I want to have access to the maximum possible power I can achieve using what-ever skills I want too....without grind.

Simplifying this is irrelevant to the actual discussion of the OP or the skills in question.Choosing or choosing not to use them doesn't alter the mechanics of the skills themselves.

I get where your coming from but your kind of missing my point of objection to these skills, they require grind to attain maximum potency, and merely restating what you already have quite a few times in this thread which is rather off tangent.

That these skills are optional in their usage.

I've never disagreed with that as it's a no-brainer and applies to any GW skill.

This whole...IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT DON'T USE IT is getting old. I mean it goes without saying. It's "common knowledge". It's cliche. It's....ramble ramble ramble ramble. Heard it all before. Anyone and everyone KNOWS they don't have to do anything in-game they don't want to. Why do people continue to bring this up? People choose to not do things they don't want to do all day everyday and in every aspect of life. Do we need a reminder just because we're playing a "game"?

Carry on with the discussion people but lets bring up some more interesting points instead of pointing out the obvious.

Don't take offense but that was very hard to read. I had to stop half way and rub my eyes. Split up your key points into paragraphs or something if it's not too much trouble.

Mainly because I'm not going to waste my valuable time writing out a PERFECT ESSAY of why things are the way they are is why you had to rub your eyes. It just isn't worth it. Mainly because what is happening IS ANETS FOCUS it's not changing, it's not going to disappear and they aren't going to nerf UB into oblivion even if they do change it somewhat.

My main objective is get the FEW whinners to realize that the game is the way it is for a reason beyond their own eyesight or vision. Hense why I said above these types want the game to be ONLY the way THEY want it to be and welp that's just not going to happen. Anet is moving FORWARD not BACKWARDS in their vision. Once again I've said it already before Anet/NCsoft has the DATA nobody else has or can even see or know about. The changes were made imho because the game is/was becoming boring and also the game wasn't allowing EVERYONE EVERYWHERE as we all remember when we had to wait for FAVOR right? Now after opening everything up to everyone the next step was to make things EASY for THOSE THAT CHOOSE TO PLAY THE EASY WAY. Which brings us full circle around to if you don't like UB or SYS just don't use it. You can't sit there and tell me you can't find groups that don't want to play using UB because I know myself they exist. Thus, I and everyone else has choices, but,the one thing I now find is I no longer have to wait 2 hours or so to get into a group. With UB and other skills I can get a group STARTED myself or get into someone else's group and there's still the old fashioned when GW was new holy trinity groups out there as well, but, as we all know THOSE take TIME to form up because of all the PICKY players out there that want this and this and this. So, nothing really changed as far as that goes you still have the snubbed nosed players out there regardless of the skill types used.

Alternately you can't sit there and try to deny others their right to UB and SYS just because you don't like their power or you don't have the TIME to build up that power. Once again because that power is OPTIONAL and not REQUIRED thus nobody is FORCED to grind, they grind because they CHOOSE to. If you don't welp you don't get the power, just as plain as that, but, it still isn't stopping you from completeing any of the chapters and that's the main point of it all.

If you currently want a max level character in GW, no I'm obviously not talking lvl 20...think about it, you are FORCED to grind.

Your talking in circles and over-generalizing again hence I agree to disagree.

Take it easy.

That is totally ok. You want something, you have to put the work needed into it.

The entire point of Guild Wars is that you don't need to work to be as strong as everyone else. A Level 20 character is as strong as every other level 20 character. This is no longer the case.

Can you complete the main story arcs w/o r10? If the answer is yes, then you obviously don't "need" to max out any of your titles...

To OP: It all depends on how you want to play the game.

If you want to beat the games, skill>time.
If you want to beat the games, HM, skill>time.
If you want to get through the elite areas skill (is supposed to)>time, but....

[skill]Ursan Blessing[/skill] has ruined that. So if you want to do anything beyond the main story arch, and low level farming, you need to grinnnndddd. Because elite areas are all about Ursan nowadays, especially since the Permasin got the nerfstick.

Work? Finish EotN in NM and HM, then finish all dungeons in NM and HM. Basically play all of EotN. This results in one rank at max and the rest at above 5.

quoting from myself: http://guildwars.incgamers.com/showp...5&postcount=31
This is to get to rank5!! No books!!

Now with books for Norn title: http://guildwars.incgamers.com/showp...6&postcount=11

There are other title tracks that have PvE skills too you know.

Exactly.

I wish everyone could comprehend this as easily as you did.


Did you read my post, I'm guessing not.

I said NOTHING about needing max rank in anything to complete the game.


Your basically saying repeat the whole game twice.

lol.

Where else is this needed to garner maximum skill potency.....exactly.Regardless of the "harder" difficulty it's still repetition of content to gain maximum skill power.

Grind.

Now this is something I finally agree with. BUT, that's the change and focus of GW's now. I have no data, BUT, Anet/NCsoft does on the number of players ENJOYING the NEW changes. Obviously it must be for the better because they haven't changed it and how long has UB been available now? Sometimes you just have to SACRIFICE the FEW to PLEASE the MANY that's just the way it is in business because you can't please all the people all of the time, but, you can please the MAJORITY of the people MOST of the time.

Sorry bud, but, anything you do beyond the story and missions and quests ONCE is a form of GRIND. Farming is a grind, playing the areas more than once is a grind. If you're looking for just a story go play Oblivion or Daggerfall or Morrowboring or Never Winter Nights, but, even those games people play them over n over n over again. The point all of you want to avoid is that you DON'T HAVE TO GRIND. You can stop playing yah know? Finish each chapter and mission and quests just ONCE and stop playing. Now, if you CHOOSE to play longer than that, then you CHOOSE to be part of the GRIND plain and simple. So, quit acting like you are FORCED to GRIND, no one is FORCED to grind or do anything in this game it is by CHOICE and CHOICE alone that you do anything and everything in this game or any other game. It's back to "If you don't like it, don't do it"

People who grind aren't in the majority, so that right there kind of puts the above text upside-down.

oh you mean the UB that they are changing according to the dev update?

ic.

They most likely kept UB overpowered to sell copies of GWEN.

Your again missing the point.It's an MMORPPG.Using the lame mantra of "it's a choice" just doesn't hold any water given the medium.GW had no requirement above and beyond attaining lvl 20 to gain maximum power.Now it does.

Repeatedly stating it's not an issue for you doesn't have any relevance.Go play the game if it's a non-issue as others wish to discuss the issue and the effect it has on game balance.

If you don't care...don't post.

It is an issue, it is relevant, if you don't care or find it relevant why repeat your mantra?

Exactly.

Good luck to you.

lol

If you think the "new" changes have any relevance above and beyond trying to extend what should be a dying game through grind your really kidding yourself.

I Just Peed My Pants.

That should be an Ursan Blessing.

This is the internet, some people here slam their head on the keyboard and press enter and that's what they call a comment