Lets talk about ursan future

Ok, since this thread claims that ANet is looking at ursan and there's a major chance of nerf/rework incoming I suggest we discuss possible ursan changes here.

Disclaimer: following text is based solely on authors opinion, intuition and insight without any actual evidence. You can call it a speculation if you want Since author is just a human it may contain misconceptions and mistakes. Feel free to point them out as long as they are actual logical/actual mistakes and please refrain from opinion based redundant stuff "fixed it for ya" with altered quotes.

Ok, enough blabbering

So, some time ago this forum had quite a number of threads about game is too hard (concerning HM, DoA, RoT). There was a number of threads about "holy trinity" dominating those areas as well. While the 1st was debatable the latter was clearly a problem. Oh, and there was a popular "heroes killed GW" tread claiming that's PuGs are dead now.

Then came ursan. Actually there were PvE skills and consumables as well but mighty ursan overshadowed it all Ursan effectively eliminated both points mentioned above - ursan groups can steamroll everything (and this raised new wave of "it's way too easy now" threads), and every profession can get into a party now... as long as their norn rank is 8+ (say hi to "grind complaint" and "skill>time is dead" threads).

So, to put it simple, we have class discrimination replaced by rank discrimination and whine threads with different titles now.

So, lets see if there is anything to be done about this mess. Atm I see three possible outcomes:
1. blessings are nerfed/reworked into below average skills
2. blessings become somehow average
3. blessings power level stays above average.

1st outcome will return us to pre-ursan state with holy raging class discrimination (I really hope ANet won't do it since my primary character is not a member of holy trinity)

2nd outcome is really no different from the 1st one, because players don't use "average" builds. For some odd reason players prefer "powerful" builds.

3rd outcome will likely to leave everything just as it. On the other hand it may prove kinda refreshing if ANet somehow changes it so that it will still be really powerful but will require some skill to use. I'm not sure if it's any good but here goes my idea of viable rework of blessings:
I think it will be ok for blessing to turn player into a member of holy trinity instead of just transforming him into a killing machine. Something like ursan turns player into a tank, wolf turns him into a nuker and raven takes role of healer.
This way we will upper the level of skill needed to play blessway and will save the game from class discrimination It's no that different from ursan actually but it will stop flood of "no skill" complaints from former holy trinity alliance members %)

Ok, that's all I wanted to say I guess. Discuss.

lets not even care about the ursan future

delete skill [proceed]

/Agreed .

Like I keep saying... Ursan sells EOTN. That's why it's been left as is.

There's only one legitimate complaint I see against Ursan and that's the effect it has on players who want to do DOA etc *without* it. Anything else is just whining about other players using perceived godmodes.

Limit the use of elite PvE skills on a team to 1-3 players (I'd leave the final figure to ANets discretion). Problem solved.

/agree with toastgod, and I guess I have to repeat what most people have been saying since it came out. You DO NOT HAVE TO USE IT. Nerf it or w/e, not like we won't find a way around it, like SF. Second it was nerfed, all the elitists were like HAHAHAA no more ectoz for poor sins. 2 hours later the new plains farm comes out and guess who got the last laugh? I'm guessing Ursan will be the same way. People might just switch to Raven or Volfen or alternate skills with the same effect and guess who's gonna start QQing about the nerfbat not being swung hard enough? :/

I agree with mister T, if ursan did get nerfed we will figure somthin out and we will have a new topic to talk about that is looking at being nerfed... You can say its kinda like the circle of life...

I would rather have my buffed shadowform back instead of ursan. Delete ursan for all I care, nerf UW totally for all I care, I will continue to QQ about all the farms now screwed by the unbalanced shadowform forever lol.

quoted for truth

I guess people saw the hundred and one other ursan threads(so why f'in make one using this flimsy cover?), but didn't read them. the TL: DR argument has been refuted a hundred times over. "If you don't like handguns, don't use them." See how that works.

Respectfully request mods merge/kill this before we get another fifty pages of QQ ursan baed/QQ ursan gud taking up bytes of forum memory.

I see absolutely no point to this thread whatsoever except to whine and bitch about how OP Ursan is. Please delete it ^^

Edit: umm.... I think I double posted.... ( I hate lag >_>)
Edit2: Thanks to whoever fixed it

/doesnotworkwithconsumabkles

I'd agree with that. I've been against removing Ursan entirely because the skill limits the amount of profession discrimination that goes on in elite areas. Sure, it increases the amount of title discrimination, but it's a lot easier to get to rank 10 norn than it is to change your character's primary profession.

Doubters

Yes, whoever the hell you are, raven and wolf blessings need to be buffed because they're inferior to ursan!

Wow... just change the damage on ursan strike to physical. Problem solved. Stop complaining, commenting, making threads. The search function is going to explode with results from Ursan pretty soon....

The other 2 forms are very powerful, and are balanced.

The future of Ursan:
Nerf, period.

Ursan should have no future to talk about.

What, are you surprised i sad that?

i remember it was physical dmg at first. so enchs like judge and straight and honor

they changed it to skill so that enchs like this have no effekt. otherwise ursan will be more powerful than before.

only way is delete... nothing else... raven and wolven too ofc

Forum memory, and points of our IQs.. I second this request. Merge, hopefully.

Okay, if you want comprehensive nerf guide:

* Changed from Elite Skill to Elite Enchantement
* Not only echants end upon activations, so do stances, shouts and weapon spells. on flip side, so would hexes and conditions.
* "1,1,1,1,1" skill changed to physical damage: one packet piercing, second to slashing. Affected by blindness, Affected by misses hexes and by blocking. Basicvally, make it melee attack skill.
* KD skill only KDs target.
* Some meaningless buff to that run skill that noone uses because they have consumables providing speed boost.

I think that would be the best solution.

Also like toastgodsupreme said - Ursan sells EotN - so nerfing it ight cost A-net some money and I'm not sure that any company will risk loosing money just to keep half of their customers happy (there is other half that don't want Ursan to be nerfed)

I personally don't care - can live with Ursan, but also can live without it.

QFT. I have these three friends whom have had no intention of purchasing EotN. However, after watching me and a team of Ursans clear UW and finish DoA runs at phenomenal speed and ease, they all went to their local Gamestop to get themselves their own copies of EotN so they could join the cookie cutters. Ursan freakin' sells.

PvE-only skills not allowed in "elite" areas.

UB is overpowered no doubt. So are most of the PvE-only skills. AoE interrupt & 100 armor ignoring damage with Cry Of Pain. Spammable 90 armor ignoring damage with Necrosis. Party wide +100AC buff with Save Yourselves. Not to mention Pain Inverter... That's just to name few....

If elite areas are supposed to be that hard to clear, ALL of those skills should be gone then.

That's if the problem with Ursan Blessing is really people clearing UW/FoW/DoA in record times, "ruining the game economy".

Anything else is pure elitism. You don't need to use UB anywhere... except during that Norn mission where your character must go through barricades, and even there the blessing is also provided as a temporary skill at the shrine.

You're still allowed to choose the build you like best and then go play the game, so are people choosing to play UB. Ok, they're probably not skilled enough to play decently without it... so? Is that hurting your ego?

People complaining about Ursans having an easy time at getting achievements are quite pathetic IMO...

Only dmg is AoE, interrupt not. And you want to kill the only skill that makes Mesmer worth playing in PvE?

But ... it's overpowered.
If Ursan needs to be killed because it's overpowered - then CoP needs to be killed also. [winds] even.
And so does Soul Reaping.


Selective balance is shit.


(Ohh and AP makes mesmers worth playing in PvE. )

and glyph of Swiftness, other PvE skills, consumables, Dungeons, Titles, Armors, Weapons

don't be stupid x.x

winds is op? did i missed something? ^^

cry is really crazy strong but needs teamplay to spike the enemys.

Oh... looks like everything with "ursan" inscribed upon it is bound to be consumed by flames =(

And to think I though we may have a constructive discussion if it is possible to kill/alter ursan and not get class discrimination instead -_-

It's a skill that requires no attribute investment to get better.
It doesn't matter that it is shit.
It's overpowered because it bypasses the BASIC game design.

Only one norn blessing of each type should be allowed in any given party. Shure, three players of every party will still mandatory use one, but it leaves room for some other builds for the three remaining players who are not monks. It's the best compromise i can think off.

their cant be any constructive discussion about ursan. ursan is nearly every singleplayers /godmode

i have no problem people using ursan as long as they learn how to play.
but they have 0 in words ZERO knowledge about gamemechanics armor class, dmg reduction blockskills and many many more. (applying to newcomers since gwen)
players whom played the game before mostly return to "non-ursanway" cause it simply makes more fun and is sometimes more effective.

people starting to play gw with eotn +ursan blessing mostly dont know about game mechanics.... thats a fact.

just watch RA or TA growing number of noobs while older gamer fluctuade.
its a clear indicator for what UB does to gamer skill for me.

€: better example

warrior ursans: 80basearmor +20vs elemental (often used) +shield 16

ele ursan: 60basearmor + 2h staff with 0 in words ZERO armor.

i saw that often enough. do i have to say something more?

€2: ur right upier

Just make UB and the other blessings Norn area specific..

The future of ursan is it should have been nerfed before the Shadow Form buff.

To fix it,
Make it an Enchantment.
Only one Usran skill can be active at any time.
Consumables have no effect on Ursan.
While in ursan form you can not be the target of spells from allies.
When ursan form ends it is disabled for 120 seconds.
And tie it to every classes primary attribute.
And LB has no effect while in ursan form.
Increase -2 Energy degeneration to -4 Energy degeneration

Whatever... The point is: a lot of stuff is overpowered in GW.

Think of Soul Reaping, think of antitarget enchantments... So, I say...

If the problem with Ursan is just about economy, PvE-only skill could be banished from elite areas. That would do.

Everywhere else, what's the problem with UB? Elitists whining about Ursans getting titles the easy way? Sorry, but that's plain ridicolous. Achievements should be for PERSONAL enjoyment and satisfaction. Ursans have not much to be satisfied about. Leave them with their worthless achievement and be happy for what yours mean to you.

Unless achievements are just for show and e-peen, which I believe is the case with most of the people against UB. Don't like it? Don't use it. Simple as that.

BTW, Ursans don't go anywhere without monks in their parties and, unless you run a 6-man UB party, they're insufficient on their own. Just like... almost everyone else? Don't really see the lack of teamwork nor the supposed "godmode" offered by the blessing. I'm yet to see a solo Ursan clearing the UW.

O hai guise, breaking news- there's not a single necro build that can clear UW so SR is not overpowered.

Get a clue, buddy.

If A.net only nerfs ursan for the sake of those cryers everywhere I doubt they will balance anything else. PvE needs lots and lots of balance , especially the classes themselves need to be put on equal ground , ursan is just the first step. Only nerfing ursan won't do anything for ballance , those who just want ursan nerfed are aware of that and enjoy playing their overpowered builds.

It will make ursan as useful as [Shatter Storm]

Okay, okay, nerf Cry. BUT REWORK MESMER SKILLS! I don't want to run boring Arcane Echo + Energy Surge or even more boring fast casting nuker to be effective in pve -.- Interrupts? Yeah, interrupts on a 1/8 cast spell from a boss ftw.

THAT'S THE POINT!! DING DING DING WINNAR

I hate the Ursan will be nerfed and if your not a Warrrior, Elementalist, or Monk, finding a group will be extremeley difficult. Sure there are "Paraway" or "Ritway" groups for elite areas, but honestly, how often do you see those forming compared to "GLF 2 TANKS, MONKS, NUKERS!" Ursan leveled the playing field for everyone. It sure made this game a lot more fun for me, not because I'm a "noob" but because I was able to do far more in the game than I was able to before. Class discrimination saw to that, and I know a large some of players feel the way I do. Ursan maybe "overpowered", but it has made GW more accessible.